Slashdot Mirror


Linux: the GPL and Binary Modules

An anonymous reader writes "When first made available in September of 1991, the Linux kernel source code was released under a very restrictive non-GPL license requiring that the source code must always be available, and that no money could be made off of it. Several months later Linus changed the copyright to the GPL, or GNU General Public License, under which the kernel source code has remained ever since. Thanks to the GPL, any source code derived from the Linux kernel source code must also be freely released under the GPL. This has led many to question the legality of 'binary only' kernel modules, for which no source code is released. Linux creator Linus Torvalds talks about this issue in a recent thread on the lkml."

29 of 657 comments (clear)

  1. Linux linkiing analogy by rubypossum · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe I'm wrong here but perhaps this is a way to look at it. If I wrote a story that was derived from the LOTR then it would not be a derived work in the legal sense it would be copyright by me. Although I'd have to get permission to use the trademarked names etc. Isn't this a bit like the linux kernel issue? The module is not directly derived from the kernel it is an extension that uses the hooks that were created in the previous "story". Maybe I'm on crack here....

    --
    I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. - Hunter S. Thompson
    1. Re:Linux linkiing analogy by rubypossum · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the other hand... if I were to take chepter 5 from the LOTR and change it a little bit, include it in my story and then publish it then it would be a derived work. Just like a company taking net/socket.c, modifying it, then including it in their own module and not distributing the source.

      --
      I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. - Hunter S. Thompson
    2. Re:Linux linkiing analogy by arkanes · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It depends on just how much your story is like LOTR. How much is too much is very subjective and depends alot on your lawyer and how convincing he is. It's the same for software except theres even less case law giving you a clear standard to work from.

      Basically, aside from clean rooming, there is no 100% way to ensure that you aren't violating copyright, in ANY field.

    3. Re:Linux linkiing analogy by adrianbaugh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So you're saying that it's okay for (say) nVidia to distribute a binary driver module (because it is new to the kernel rather than modifying it) but the bits that may require kernel modification or that hook directly into the kernel (their wrapper) do need to be open?
      Sounds fair enough to me.

      --
      "'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
      - JRR Tolkien.
    4. Re:Linux linkiing analogy by mabhatter654 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The nVida drivers are the clasic test case for this...

      Generally, if I sit down with Linux and write "hello world" using standard C calls and compile with normal methods, that's mine and not a derivitive work at all. The problem comes with drivers such as nVidia's. They are not just "windows" drivers with a wrapper for linux. They get into the system and re-route system API calls, much about with non-standard kernel features and the like. And that's the problem with "bianary" modules. The problem with nVidia's approach is that it's hard to tell where their drivers start and the kernel begins...heck, they could rewrite half the kernel and simply override it in their module, it would be hard to fiugure out for normal users...it's that poteitial for abuse that is the cause of such arguments.

      On nVidia's defence though, Ther was talk for 2.6 about removing the API calls they try to legally use in favor of others that would require 100% GPL code. That's also a problem because certian vocal parts of the community are actively trying to make the current scheme too "sour" for compaines like nVidia to publish their code. On a side note, there are certian things nVidia CAN'T publish if they have to use GPL! Much of the hardware they build is "patented" from outside sources...they would get into IBM/SCO style lawsuits...but without any cause to defend themselves! That leaves them [and us] with bianary drivers--or NO drivers.

      My opinion right now is that Linus is sticking his head in the sand on this issue...other stuff I've read he seems to fully support how nVidia is working, but then allows changes to APIs that clearly theaten that way of working???? This IS a key issue with linux...If companies can't use proprietary, binary modules to protect their/others IP, then Linux will never be a truly "first class" OS. What's needed is for the community to "standardize" the rules [make them just a bit more attractive to business?]...and stop the FSF and such from "legal creeping" against the people who go out of their way RIGHT NOW to support Linux.

  2. Pragmatism by nepheles · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A certain amount of pragmatism has to prevail here -- were binary modules disallowed, the phrase 'shoot yourself in the foot' jumps to mind. Linux is probably better off with them, as it lowers the entry barrier to companys wishing to contribute. And that's rarely a bad thing.

    --
    ((lambda x ((x))) (lambda x ((x))))
    1. Re:Pragmatism by pe1rxq · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When binary modules are allowed it doesn't help linux in any way....

      Just look at the nvidia drivers: The only thing you get are kiddies yelling that nvidia has such great linux support. Meanwhile linux didn't get any better from it, kernel developers get lots of bug reports caused by the nvidia black box (One of the reasons the 'tainted' flag was introduced), I still can't use the nvidia cards on platform not-quite-obscure-nividia-just-didnt-bother-compil ing-their-driver-for-it, and most importantly you don't know what the driver is doing on your system (its a black box afterall)

      Jeroen

      --
      Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
    2. Re:Pragmatism by LizardKing · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Binary modules may "lower the entry barrier" for some companies, but it can end up being counter productive. Binary only drivers have tended to be crude ports of Windows drivers, and frequently crash the users kernel. This results in bug reports that the regular kernel hackers can't solve, and a misconception amongst users that Linux is unstable.

      Far better would be if companies jumped wholeheartedly into the Linux way of doing things, and published their drivers under the GPL. Their competitors aren't going to get much of a leg up from seeing the source to most drivers, especially those for network adapters and the like, but the vendor can benefit from bug fixes provided by independent kernel hackers.

      Chris

    3. Re:Pragmatism by jusdisgi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, the trouble is, the drivers to products that really are trivial (those NICs you mentioned) are already available, because those companies agreed with you and released drivers openly or at least released information, allowing the community to produce them.

      But some products aren't that way; nvidia, for instance, at least *says* they have IP tied up in the binary part of their drivers that they can't afford to let competitors (ATI) get ahold of. I don't know whether it's the truth.....I haven't seen the code!

      --
      Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
    4. Re:Pragmatism by starsong · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Imagine a future where you install your core Linux kernel, then download a ton of different binary modules from different websites, have to hunt in the forums to mix-and-match the right versions, and end up having bugs nobody won't fix....

      We have that under Windows! They're called "drivers."

    5. Re:Pragmatism by zurab · · Score: 4, Insightful
      When binary modules are allowed it doesn't help linux in any way....


      In certain cases, manufacturers can provide open source modules, but many times, there simply is no viable way. Complex hardware or hardware/software combination is usually covered by multiple patents, trade secrets, copyrights, and various agreements between different parties. In such cases asking hardware manufacturers to open up their internals and provide modules open source is like asking Linus to provide Linux under license other than the GPL. In neither of those cases is a single party is in control of all of the "intellectual property" involved; and it is virtually impossible to get all parties involved to agree to such a request.
    6. Re:Pragmatism by _Spirit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you would rather have nvidia making no drivers at all for Linux? In an ideal world I might agree with you, but in the real world I suspect most Linux users would rather have support for their video card.

      --

      beauty is only a light switch away

    7. Re:Pragmatism by pe1rxq · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In most cases hardware/software is believed to be the next best thing since sliced bread by management.....
      Most drivers do NOTHING that justifies keeping the code under lock like it is done today.
      Most drivers simply push data to the right place and fiddle with registers in the right way. There is nothing the competitor wouldn't have already thought off.
      If youre competitor has to learn from your driver they are atleast two generations behind you and you have nothing to fear.
      Its a corporate culture that is the problem, not patents (which already are open for anybody to see anyway), trademarks or trade secrets.

      Jeroen

      --
      Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
    8. Re:Pragmatism by pe1rxq · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Linux will get is name far faster by being accepted on the corporate desktop. There you don't need gaming performance, you don't need 3d performance.
      What good is acceptance if it means a ton of binary only drivers? Acceptance is useless if you lose the biggest advantage linux has: free (speach) SOURCECODE!!!

      Jeroen

      --
      Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
    9. Re:Pragmatism by nathanh · · Score: 4, Insightful
      So you would rather have nvidia making no drivers at all for Linux?

      Yes.

      And I don't say that lightly. Nvidia has some extremely intelligent staff, including former open-source developers like Gareth and Mark. Nvidia contribute code to open source projects like XFree86. Nvidia are valued members of the ARB and their proposals are both worthy and appreciated. Nvidia's support for OpenGL has helped prevent Direct3D from usurping the entire industry and for that act alone we should all be grateful.

      But even with those things considered, I still think nvidia's closed source drivers are worse than no drivers at all. There are many reasons why I think this but the single most important reason is that the nvidia binary drivers take away the very freedoms that Linux grants you. Not for the same code but it's the same principles.

      In an ideal world I might agree with you, but in the real world I suspect most Linux users would rather have support for their video card.

      They had support. The Utah GLX nvidia driver wasn't the greatest but it did work with both 3D and 2D. The XFree86 drivers still support 2D on all nvidia cards and the performance is excellent.

      And really, I don't know when you started to use Linux, but when I started (pre-1.0) we didn't have video drivers. We wrote them ourselves. We chose the freedom of Linux over the convenience of binary-only platforms with working drivers. It shames me that so many of the current generation of Linux users don't understand what the world before Linux was like. It was hell. Closed source binary-only drivers everywhere. Buggy code that you couldn't fix. Linux changed all that. Finally we have source and freedom and rights. Finally there's something to be proud of; an entirely open source operating system built through the sweat and tears of 1000s of volunteers. And you would sacrifice all that for slightly faster 3D graphics? I can't comprehend your state of mind. Your priorities are completely foreign to me.

    10. Re:Pragmatism by W2k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So in your opinion, having no nVidia drivers would be better than the current state, which is that there are drivers for the vast majority of systems that need them (which is to say desktop PC's) which are closed-source but mostly working.

      How typical of "free software" zealots to whine and whine for improvement, and when they get it, to whine again that it isn't good enough because it is missing feature X or because it doesn't support obscure platform Y. nVidia is giving you drivers for free, whining because you think they should just give away all their source is not the way to get more companies follow in their footsteps, releasing drivers for Linux.

      I've heard the argument that welcoming binary drivers is counter-productive to getting more drivers that are fully open source. While this may well be true, having a somewhat functional driver which works on some platforms (or better yet as in the nVidia case, a well-functioning driver that works on most platforms) is certainly better for the users than having no driver at all.

      --
      Quality, performance, value; you get only two, and you don't always get to pick.
    11. Re:Pragmatism by Tim+C · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but if you want to get hardware acceleration on another architecture, you're on your own.

      And if you wanted hardware accel on one of the currently-supported platforms, but Nvidia didn't release any drivers at all, you'd still be on your own.

      I understand where you're coming from, but I'm firmly in the "I just want my expensive hardware to work properly" camp.

    12. Re:Pragmatism by kyz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My opinion is that having NVIDIA work with kernel developers to come up with fully open-source, GPL licensed Linux drivers for their hardware would be better than ever releasing a single binary-only driver.

      NVIDIA haven't given us anything for free. They have given us 6000 lines of code to interface a big black box to the free and open Linux kernel. This has been more than paid for by the thousands of NVIDIA cards sold on the back of supposed "Linux support". They have given us absolutely no device specifications whatsoever. Experience shows us that, over time, Linux kernel programmers write far superior Linux drivers than the hardware manufacturers.

      Currently, NVIDIA have offered a sop to the whining Linux fanboys -- "here's your binary, black box secret drivers -- just like in Microsoft Windows". The drivers cause mysterious kernel panics which can't be debugged because they originate from somewhere inside a black box that only NVIDIA may look at. NVIDIA can't leverage the support of hundreds of kernel developers when trying to fix it. It sucks.

      If NVIDIA gets away with providing half-hearted binary-only support for Linux, why can't every other hardware manufacturer? "No, you can't have any specifications for this Ethernet chipset, it's top secret -- here's a binary HAL instead". "No, you can't have any specifications for this SCSI disk controller", etc.

      --
      Does my bum look big in this?
  3. Linux driver model doesn't help by Vanders · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This "grey area" exists because there is no clearly defined boundary defining the seperation between the kernel and the drivers. Modules are parts of the kernel which have not been linked yet. When they're required, they are loaded and linked with the kernel.

    The fact that Linus states that there is no exception must worry a lot of companies out there who are producing binary drivers for Linux E.g. nVidia, or SciTech (Who started the LKML thread, after all!) Are nVidia's kernel modules under the GPL? If the possibility exists that they are then I would expect them to suddenly get cold feet over Linux.

    If the kernel had a proper boundary with E.g. a set of API's that the kernel and drivers can use to communicate with each other then it would help to solve the issue of what is and isn't "the kernel". For example in Syllable drivers are ELF images which are loaded by the kernel ELF loader. The drivers are loaded under the kernels memory space but there is a very well defined API between the two, and a very clear seperation between them. Under this model I can argue that the kernel is actually being linked to the driver, so the driver can be under any licence while the kernel remains under the GPL. There is no "cross pollenation" between the driver and the kernel. Which is a good thing IMHO, if it avoids issues like the ones being raised on the LKML.

  4. What Linus is missing here... by kju · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Linus talks all about linking source with the kernel and stuff like this. But guess what: With most binary modules this part is done by the user, not by the distributor, and this is clearly your right - you just cannot distribute the binary.

    See for example stuff like driverloader (the ndis-wrapper around windows wlan drivers for the centrino and other cards): They are shipping a source which you can compile against the kernel headers (which are provided by YOU!) and will form a kernel module which can be loaded (by YOU!) against the kernel.

    I really can't see how linus can claim copyright to the distribution of any source which happens to run with the linux kernel - but does not contain any part of it. And the enduser is free to compile and link this sources against the kernel, as the GPL allows modifications for own use without any restriction.

    I guess the whole discussion is politics. Linus dislikes binary only drivers (for good reasons: they are unflexible, hard to debug and can cause user confusion and problems) and would like to have them not happen. But i don't think it is helpful to take a extreme shaky legal position (and downright confusing the users by making legal statements which simply do not apply here) to achieve this goal.

    Although i dislike binary-only drivers in general, i came to the understanding that sometimes this might be the best you can get. In the business software world copyright is often a diverse field, and even companies who would like to release the source might be barred from that through NDAs and copyrights of third companies. So some companies have no choice but releasing binary drivers and i'm happy that they do at least that. If all would adhere to linus position we would just keep some users alone out in the rain. I'm all for helping users getting their hardware running. They might have made the wrong purchase in the first (getting a hardware with open sourced drivers would have been wiser), but just saying "tough stuff, you have lost, now go away" won't help them.

    1. Re:What Linus is missing here... by kju · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, we are talinkg about some binary modules which are compiled before distribution and WHICH SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST. All "binary only" modules i've seen so far contains at least a short kernel linkage stub which is distributed in source and compiled by the enduser, because this is the only way to ensure that the module is compatible with your running kernel.

      The companies providing "binary only" drivers are only distributing this stub source (which they very often GPL) plus their propitary binary. Compiling and linking is usually done by the enduser. Providing real binary-only-drivers would lead to many problems and therefore just isn't done.

  5. Why don't they just introduce a proper driver API? by MisterFancypants · · Score: 4, Insightful
    With Windows and other OSes, there is a clearly defined API that drivers code against to work with the system. In the Windows case this is *required* because the driver authors do not have the Window source code (well, most of them don't). If Linux had something similar to the Windows DDK, this would all be a non-issue as that API would become a clear boundary of where the GPL ends and commercial company lawyers wouldn't have a near-heart-attack worrying about this huge (in Linus' words) 'grey area'.

    I know some people just hate the idea of binary drivers to begin with, and if that is your stance, fine; I don't agree, but I understand where you're coming from. But if you're going to allow binary modules (as Linux does), why do it in such a half-assed fashion that a company that might provide a Linux driver can't be sure one way or another how you're going to view their code (exempt from GPL or bound by it)? Either do it right and enforce a clear boundary or just stick with source only drivers.

  6. Re:lines have to be drawn by jusdisgi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Er, yeah, that's a little warped.

    It might make sense to take that position, if such a thing as a "module vendor" existed. As it happens, it doesn't, and no one is out trying to sell binary modules for Linux. The creators of binary modules are *hardware vendors* and they are "contributing" by making their hardware compatible with the free system.

    This is not parasitic; if they want, they can just not bother, and you can just not use that hardware in Linux. Let's not forget, it's not like you wrote the driver; why would you want to keep people from making their hardware usable on your system? If a manufacturer says "well, sorry, I want to support linux, but not if it means letting the competition get a sneak peak at this crazy technology in my drivers" you would just say, "ok, parasite, we don't need your stupid hardware."

    When the manufacturer in question is a leading producer of video boards, such fanaticism is extremely foolish.

    --
    Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
  7. Original purpose by tjackson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The original purpose of restricting derived works was to make it so that authors (companies or not) could not copy code from the public domain and claim it as private work, No?

    Kernel Modules cannot exist without the Linux Kernel. This dependancy means that any part of the Kernel Module that depends on the kernel for *module* interface purposes is not derived work. It is when authors base their code off of other code that is in the GPL that they must in turn release thier code under the GPL.

    So in short, if the module could have been written entirely with Manpages and documentation, it is not derived work. If the author views the code of other modules, then it is derived work.

    Deriving functions and invoking them are two very different things.

  8. Re:It's really simple by anpe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think you've missed the point, the problem is to define what does "based upon" means.
    When you compile a binary, you have to compile with some header files which are GPLed. So you are "based upon" GPL code right?
    IIRC Linus argued that this wasn't sufficient. He stated that for a module needed to be written with Linux in mind (ie targeted at it), accessing particular data structures, then it would have to be GPLed.

  9. Think Back by ajs318 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My second printer was a Citizen 120-D 9-pin mono dot matrix, and it was also very Epson-compatible. It had a beautiful programmer's manual replete with examples of how to access each feature, from simple double width text to high-density image graphics, and even went so far as to provide timing details for the Centronics interface. {Hey, you might be plugging the thing into some device of your own construction}. It was even known for owners of EPROM burners to patch the charsets to match certain manufacturers' non-strict interpretation of ASCII {the BBC model B, for example, had a pound sign at CHR$(96) instead of a backtick, so it could keep the comment mark at CHR$(35) - a comment in BASIC is denoted by REM, but the # was used to specify immediate mode in assembler}.

    Compare and contrast that with today ..... you get a Quick Start guide which says "Plug the printer into your computer. Do exactly what Windows tells you to do" and a huge manual, replete this time not with useful programming information but with dire warnings about attempting to do anything "unauthorised" with the printer, and it probably illegal to examine the printout with a magnifier to see how the fonts are made up.

    IMHO the lawful owner of an instrument has the right to know everything about that instrument. My property can, by definition, contain no secrets from me {though I might reasonably be bound to keep any secret I discover}. It's time that this was enshrined into law. If you can't handle the concept of people knowing how to write drivers for your hardware then you perhaps shouldn't be selling it. Mandatory Full Disclosure would put an end to this argument once and for all.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  10. Re:Pessimists are mind-killers by jlar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You clearly missed the point in my signature. It has nothing to do with pessimism. Karl Popper (famous natural philosopher) wrote a book after WW2 called "The Open Society and its enemies" as a defence of democracy and a critique of totalitarian rule (including fascism, communism and various religious ways to rule).

    In the book he argues that democracy has an incremental approach to society building whereas e.g. communism (and political islam for that sake) has a "revolutionary" approach. The point is that those who promise us paradise on Earth after we have made the society in whatever way they would like us to - they have always ended up giving us hell on Earth (Soviet Union, Iran, Afghanistan and so on).

  11. Re:lines have to be drawn by Spoing · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If a manufacturer says "well, sorry, I want to support linux, but not if it means letting the competition get a sneak peak at this crazy technology in my drivers" you would just say, "ok, parasite, we don't need your stupid hardware."

    The manufacturer is selling hardware. Anything they want to protect from being exposed in the module means little to other hardware companies who have competent developers. The details of how the hardware is controlled and any setup and tables can be discovered using the Windows drivers and debuggers.

    Contrary example: In Nvidia's case, they don't own everything they ship so unless they convince other companies to opening those parts (unlikely) Nvidia has to either drop those parts or replace them.

    The motivations of different companies are important. Server-grade hardware companies fall all over themselves supporting Linux in the main kernel source tree. If Linux becomes popular on the desktop -- even if modestly so -- the kernel modules that support desktop software will likely be open. Nvidia might even change (though this is speculation on my part).

    --
    A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  12. Re:But why close the drivers? by RevMike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    OK, I've wondered about this since the dawn of PCs, and wonder about it every time I have to install nVidia drivers: Why do this? Onceupponatime, you bought hardware and drivers were just kinda there with it. Then they started putting copyright callouts on 'em. Now they're treating 'em as if they were standalone programs....

    If the driver spec is floating around in the open, that's a value-add for me as a comsumer (the company can't force-obsolete the cards by yanking drivers away, easier to switch OSes) and for the company (it makes the devices marketable to more people, and they get free optimizations and ports from the OSS community)....

    So, why be all grabby about drivers anyway?....

    In ye olde days, drivers did nothing more thancanfigure and move data back and forth to a piece of hardware. They were fairly trivial pieces of software, and so no one cared if they were protected. Many types of drivers are still like this today. Network card drivers typically do nothing magical.

    A few generations ago, hardware designers realized that they could offload some of the task traditionally done in hardware to the driver. Thus they could simplify the hardware and save money. The driver for a WinModem doesn't just configure and communicate with a hardware modem, it actually performs in software some tasks that were usually done in the modem hardware itself.

    At this point, drivers aren't trivial programs, but represent substantial investment and competative edge for the hardware manufacturer. If WinModem company B could look at WinModem company A's driver, they would see the tricks that they used in order to reduce the part count that much further. Company B could immitate Company A, and match their price.

    Video cards are like WinModems, although the competititon is not based price but performance. The card manufacturers are using tricks in the driver in order to boost the performance of their hardware. Those tricks may confer to them a competetive advantage, so they won't open source the drivers.

    Smart companies are quick to release software as open source when the software doesn't give them a specific and compelling competitive advantage. Cisco released CUPS as OSS because they felt they would benefit far more from having a community enhance their internal printing system than the would be hurt because Bay Networks could reduce their overhead a few hundred thousand dollars. Cisco is not going to open source their routing software anytime soon, because other router manufacturers could use it to compete against Cisco.