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Detoxing With Magnets for Fun and Profit

Posted by simoniker on from the and-profit-and-fun dept.

Ridgelift writes "Wired has an article on a new way to remove toxins from the bloodstream. The Argonne National Laboratory have designed nanoparticles which 'identify, and then latch onto, target molecules. The nanoparticles are injected into the bloodstream, where they circulate through the body, picking up their target toxins as they go. Once they have made their rounds, all that's needed to remove the particles from the body are a magnet housed in a handheld unit and a small, dual-channel shunt inserted into an arm or leg artery.'"

87 of 287 comments (clear)

  1. X2 a Reality by Ridgelift · · Score: 4, Funny

    Magneto: Something's different, today... [Holds up a hand, and the guard freezes] Too much iron in your blood!

    --
    Ruby on Rails Screencast
    1. Re:X2 a Reality by Clever+Pun · · Score: 2, Informative

      I was just thinking that - if you have an overabundance of iron in your diet, would this system pull out your red blood cells and just pump the empty plasma back into you? (In case you didn't know, iron is used by your body largely to make Hemoglobin, which is what red blood cells are made from. Other primary uses are to make Myoglobin, and within enzyme systems.)

    2. Re:X2 a Reality by geeveees · · Score: 3, Informative

      And Hemoglobin contains a Fe atom so that it can bind with O2, this allows red blood cells to transport a lot more oxygen. So the downside to this would be the same as CO-poisoning (the Fe binds with the CO, not with O. This binding lasts a long time, you die...).

      --
      I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
    3. Re:X2 a Reality by Carnildo · · Score: 4, Informative

      The iron in hemoglobin isn't magnetic, so this won't have any more effect on blood cells than the "improve your circulation" magnets do.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    4. Re:X2 a Reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The iron is not magnetic (or at least only very slightly) while in hemoglobin.

      Informative? Mod it informative when you know what the hell you're talking about.

    5. Re:X2 a Reality by Roger_Wilco · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, that's sort of right.

      De-oxygenated hemoglobin isn't magnetic, but oxygenated hemoglobic is paramagnetic. That's why fMRI works. fMRI is a clever technique using the same MRI technology used for imaging, but tuned to see changes in blood oxygen concentration. It's used to estimate brain activity, and also to detect poor circulation in the heart.

    6. Re:X2 a Reality by Sgt+York · · Score: 2, Informative
      First, it would take more force than is exerted by most megnetic fields to remove iron from heme. And the mass of the hemoglobin is too great to be moved by the same force.

      Second, if you have an overabundance of iron in your diet, you just poop more iron. Unlike most other nutrients, your body only absorbs what iron it needs. Iron is a dangerous thing to have too much of, for reasons unrelated to magnetism. The best way to get more iron in your blood is to move to a high altitude.

      --

      There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.

    7. Re:X2 a Reality by jcp797 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      actually, oxygenated hemoglobin is diamagnetic.

    8. Re:X2 a Reality by Sgt+York · · Score: 4, Informative
      MRI does not look for iron. It's based on certain isotopes and how they behave in a magnetic and RF fields, mostly hydrogen and oxygen.

      The short of it is that atoms spin on an axis, and if you put atoms in a strong magnetic field, their spin axes will mostly line up. Adding a strong RF pulse will "tip" them in one direction (like tipping a spinning top) and they will precess while going back to alignment with the field. This precession can be picked up as a seperate RF emission, and the nature of the emission from each atom will be affected by what atoms are around it. It's the same concept as NMR, just that medical MRI looks for the specific signature of water, finding differences in tissue density.

      --

      There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.

    9. Re:X2 a Reality by jcp797 · · Score: 4, Informative

      yes, nuclear magnetic resonance imaging does not look for iron but he said fMRI

    10. Re:X2 a Reality by Sgt+York · · Score: 2, Informative
      Probably is a too much too fast thing, but I'm no clinician, I'm a basic scientist. I can't say anything about that from knowledge.

      But I can talk out of my ass, so here goes. The reason free iron is dangerous is that it is required by bacteria; in their natural environment, it's often a limiting reagent in growth. Maybe the influx of iron induces a growth spurt in the gut flora. Or, maybe it's a chemical or osmotic thing, where the iron reduces or oxidizes the intestinal lining, or osmotically damages it, causing sepsis or some other massive inflammatory reaction. Like I said, though...just talking out of my ass there.

      And, after that flatulence, here's the Google result. It is a chemical thing, free radical formation by the absorbtion regulation process.

      --

      There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.

    11. Re:X2 a Reality by Timbatron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not entirely true. MRI is actually based on the differences in the speed at which the atoms precess when the field is turned off (which varies according to tissue density). The RF emission doesnt "tip" them.

      --
      Homepage
    12. Re:X2 a Reality by k98sven · · Score: 2, Informative

      De-oxygenated hemoglobin isn't magnetic, but oxygenated hemoglobic is paramagnetic.

      Let's clarify this for all the non chemist/physicist-readers here..
      Simplified, there are three forms of magnetism, ferromagnetism, paramagnetism and diamagnetism.

      Ferromagnetism is what we ususally mean when we speak of something being 'magnetic'.
      The other two are mainly molecular phenomena, and are very weak.

      Molecular oxygen is paramagnetic. This doesn't mean there is more air near your refrigerator. At least not under normal circumstances.

    13. Re:X2 a Reality by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 2, Informative
      IIRC, the body becomes more efficient in absorbing iron if body stores are low, and less if high... also, more iron is eliminated through the urine and lost from shed skin if iron stores are high. The problem with supplements is what you said - they might take in amounts of excess iron that are orders of magnitude greater than they could ever get from any food. Note that the actual percentage of nonheme iron (iron tablets, vegetables) absorbed is ~5%, while heme iron (from meat and animal products) is ~34%.

      Anyway, since I already checked my notes for that last bit, here's a bit from a toxicology book:

      "There are essentially five stages of iron poisoning:

      Stage I (30 min to 6 hours): GI irritation, primarily due to the corrosive effect of iron. Drowsiness, epigastric pain, GI bleeding, hypotention, and nausea/vomiting may occur. Hyperglycemia, leukocytosis, or metabolic acidosis may be present (due to vasodilation).
      Stage II: (6 to 24 hours): A latent period of symptom quiescence during which symptomatic improvement may be noted. In severe poisonings, there may be not latent period.
      Stage III (6 to 48 hours): Metabolic and systemic derangement occur with cardiovascular collapse, coagulopathy (inhibition of thrombin and fibrinogen), coma, and seizures. Pulmonary edema may occur due to cardiac failure.
      Stage IV (2 to 7 days): Hepatotoxicity (jaundice) and coagulopathy occur. Metabolic acidosis is present, and renal insufficiency may occur.
      Stage V (1 to 8 weeks): Primarily delated GI complications, including gastric/duodenal fibrosis resulting in obstructive pattern. Achlorhydria may develop."

      Er, that was longer to type than I thought. Oh, well. There's a lot of terminology that I can translate if you want.

    14. Re:X2 a Reality by Rob+Simpson · · Score: 2, Informative
      Eh, I was curious, so I looked up the details of the mechanism in Dipiro...

      The toxicity of acute iron poisoning is due to local effects on GI mucosa, and systemic effects due to excessive iron in the body. Iron is irritating to the gastric and duodenal mucosa, which may result in hemorrage and occasionally perforations. Once absorbed, iron is taken up by tissues, particularly the liver, and acts as a mitochondrial poison. It occasionally causes hepatic injury. Iron may significantly inhibit aerobic glycolysis and perturb the electron transport system (that means it screws up the burning of glucose). Further, iron may shnt electrons away from the electron transport system, thereby reducing the efficiency of oxidative phosphorylation (ditto). These biochemical factors, along with the cardiovascular effects of iron, lead to metabolic acidosis. The pathogenesis of shock is not well understood but may include developmen of hypovolemia and lactic acidosis, release of endogenous vasodilators, and direct vasodepressant effects of iron and ferritin on the circulation (see fig 9-8, a really cool flow chart that probably makes more sense than this but would take forever to format properly).

      Oh, and there's also iron overload, a condition caused by the (relatively slow) deposition of iron in organs which can result due to frequent transfusions (eg, needed by patients with thalassemia), which is prevented/treated with iron chelating agents.

  2. Now all they.. by panxerox · · Score: 5, Funny

    need is a car mounted version so I can plug in saturday night after a round at the bars. hmm mabee they could shunt the removed "products" directly to my carborator.. Profit !

    --
    "It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
    1. Re:Now all they.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uncle Sam wont let it pass though, as they make a ton of money on DUI's. I cant see the senators letting this "taxation" go away. In MN last year, we had over 200,000 DUI's (More than the population of Minneapolis!). Multiply this by $1500 (lucky average), and you'll see that it is not a small amount of bling-bling that our polititions can wear. I too thought the same thing, but then realized what kind of $$ is at stake. Not a snowballs chance in hell. In fact, we are now in the process of bringing the DUI limit down to .08 :-). I got stopped a while ago and blew a .096, the cop towed the car and gave me a careless driving ticket even though I was only stopped for a light that was out (and was below the legal limit). I still dont understand that one, but I'm not a cop, so I have no idea that the law was like that. Nonetheless, it still counts as a DUI on my insurance record (again, lobbying the senators from the insurance companies).

      Money talks, bullshit (citizen) walks.

    2. Re:Now all they.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
      and blew a .096,


      There's your problem. Next time, blow the cop a 69.

    3. Re:Now all they.. by LetterJ · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't know. The Representative from South Dakota was convicted of manslaughter after hitting someone on a motorcycle today and faces 10 years in prison.

      --

      The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
    4. Re:Now all they.. by twiddlingbits · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hadn't heard the outcome there. I doubt he'll do any hard time, probably appeal too. I heard he used some sort of medical defense (fainting spells??). Having traveled in the West where off the main highway traffic signs are rarely obeyed I can see how the accident happened, but it doesn't make it OK. He should have looked.

  3. What about... by mgcsinc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article mentions simple, nice uses such as detoxing or removing poisons from the bloodstream, but what prevents a similar method from being designed (all be it you would have to design particles corresponding to these to be in the bloodstream) to remove viral infections from the blood? That seems like where the real interest in this technology would be!

    1. Re:What about... by KrispyKringle · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I'm no doctor, but I'd make a couple of guesses:

      It seems like if the effectiveness weren't 100%, it may not matter for detox, since it may get the toxin levels below tolerance, but for a virus, it may simply meet as soon as you stop, the virus spreads again.

      It may be far harder to make things to bond to the virus. The particles being bonded to may have well known chemical properties, but it seems like if it were that simple to make things bond to viruses, we'd have little problem treating them, magnet or no.

      Just a guess, though. Anyone here actually know about this stuff? :P

    2. Re:What about... by KrispyKringle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But there are a few comments about treating auto-immune diseases and anthrax. So maybe it's useful as an intermediary treatment for some easily-targeted particles, but doesn't completely remove an infection?

    3. Re:What about... by KiwiEngineer · · Score: 5, Informative

      I, too had similar thoughts, but in order to not appear redundant in my post I decided to find out the particle size of a typical virus.

      I found this at drgreene.com

      Viruses range in size from 20 to 250 nanometers

      The average bacterium is 1,000 nanometers long.

      If a bacterium were my size, a typical virus particle would look like a tiny mouse-robot. If an average virus were my size, a bacterium would be the size of a dinosaur over ten stories tall.

      It could be a scale thing taht means this first generation of magnetic detox devices are too large to pick up virus particles. i don't know what sort of % you would need to remove of a viral infection compared to a bacterial infection to ensure a recovery by the casualty, but suspect it would be a lot higher for a virus.

      Another problem could lie in the changing nature of viruses, making them a harder target to select for when designing your magnetised particles.

      It would be a wonderful application if it works.

      --
      Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!
    4. Re:What about... by Eskarel · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Well the body can produce things which bond to specific viruses those things are called anti-bodies and are relatively effective for most diseases spread by viruses(excluding those which kill too fast or attack the immune system(HIV)) but you're probably right it wouldn't be all that effective and there are probably better ways to do it.

      The thing I would be interested to see is a cancer treatment based on this idea. Not to actually cure cancer since I don't think that's possible with this method but to pick up the cancerous cells in the bloodstream and prevent them from spreading cancer to other parts of the body. A lot of times it's when the cancers have metastecized(no idea of spelling) to other parts of the body that you get the real problems. Not to mention it might reduce the chances of cancer recurring.

    5. Re:What about... by Carnildo · · Score: 2, Informative

      It can catch cancer cells in the bloodstream, but it won't catch those spreading by the lymph system.

      And for future reference, it's "metastasized".

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    6. Re:What about... by Sgt+York · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The clearance issue wouldn't be that big of a deal. All you need to do is help out the immune system some, clear a large portion of the viral particles and your system can fight off the rest after the load has dropped. For example, many antibiotics only inhibit the growth of bacteria, they don't actually kill them. This allows the immune system to "catch up" with the bugs in the body.

      It may be more difficult to make it bind specifically to the virus, but I suppose you could use an antibody fragment for specificity.

      --

      There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.

    7. Re:What about... by mec · · Score: 4, Informative

      [I'm only about one or two Scientific American articles ahead of you, so let's hope that a real molecular biology geek shows up].

      This is what antibodies are for. You need to make an antibody that has a very high specific affinity for the virus and a lower affinity for friendly cells. (Nature does this by generating large numbers of antibodies at random, then filtering out antibodies that show reactivity with your own cells. All the rest are let loose in the body).

      Then you attach the magnetized tag on the other end of the antibody.

      The antibody attaches to the virus in a death grip, and then the little black box can filter out the magnetized tag.

      You don't have to remove 100% of the virus load to cure somebody. You just have to get a lot of the virus so that the body's natural immune system can fight the rest.

      Indeed, other groups have tried the antibody idea with different payloads, such as a radioactive atom bonded onto the antibody. The antibody attaches to the virus or the cancer cell, then the radioactive atom decays right there next to the bad cell.

    8. Re:What about... by StringBlade · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would be leary about dragging cancerous cells out of the body using magnets unless that magnetic field was strong enough and it could be shown that none of the particles are left behind along the "exit route". If the magnet were to drop any of the cancer cells after relocating them from some other area you may actually be spreading the cancer much faster than it would have done itself.

      --
      ...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
    9. Re:What about... by hollo32 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm no doctor, but I'd make a couple of guesses:

      Well I am a doctor, but it's not really my field and I've had a few drinks. I'll have a go anyway.

      There are two problems with this technique for dealing with viruses like HIV. One is that viruses can only reproduce inside human cells and spend most of their time there. None of these nanoparticles are going to be able to get inside the cells so they are not going to get to where the virus is. Instead there is the much trickier task of detecting cells which have the virus inside.

      The other problem is that the HIV virus in particular appears to mutate very rapidly. There is one part of the outside of the virus capsule which has to stay the same as it binds strongly to a particular protein on the outside of the cells it is going to infect in order to attach to them. This region which stays the same is flanked by areas that change rapidly from generation to generation to make it difficult for the body to recognise the virus.

  4. Finally! by Theatetus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Something to do with all these spare small, dual-channel arterial shunts I have lying around...

    --
    All's true that is mistrusted
  5. No longer quack medicine by Carnildo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Finally, an actual medical benefit from magnets!

    --
    "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  6. MRI by Evil+Adrian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder how long you wouldn't be allowed to get an MRI for... I'd imagine those little beasties would tear you apart if you got one!

    --
    evil adrian
    1. Re:MRI by mariox19 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As I understand it, hospitals are reluctant to give some construction workers MRI's as the average worker is sure to have accumulated tiny metal shards in his or her eyes, shards that go unnoticed until someone turns on the juice.

      The MRI question for all of this is a good one.

      --

      quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

  7. Oh great... by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now those people selling the magnetic bracelets and insoles are going to be using this as 'proof' that their useless peices of crap really work.

    --

    Technoli
  8. Really stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The body would attack those things because they are foreign, and even if they are inert then you have the problem of them getting stuck in strange places, like your brain.

    Wouldn't want to get an MRI after either, half your body would probably be torn apart.

  9. Introducing Chaser 2! by numbski · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Take Chaser 2 shortly after you begin drinking, and drink all night long!

    The next morning, just insert the handy-dandy magetized needle, and lookie! Hangover-over!

    --

    Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    1. Re:Introducing Chaser 2! by Planesdragon · · Score: 2, Informative

      The next morning, just insert the handy-dandy magetized needle, and lookie! Hangover-over!

      Not quite.

      Hangovers are caused by your body being dehydrated. To fix the worst of the effect, drink lots of water (preferably the night before) or, if you happen to be an EMT, stick some saline solution right into your blood.

    2. Re:Introducing Chaser 2! by Lafe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hangovers are caused by your body being dehydrated. To fix the worst of the effect, drink lots of water (preferably the night before) or, if you happen to be an EMT, stick some saline solution right into your blood.

      Not quite.

      Hangovers are caused by your body producing acetaldehyde as it metabolizes alcohol. Dehydration does play a role, but it is a supporting role.

      A good description of what happens, and good advice on what to do about it can be found here.

      Alternatively, you can pick up the RU-21 pill designed by the KGB to keep their agents from getting hangovers.

  10. Just to be a little prophetic here by Raul654 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I heard a saying: The 20th century was the century of physics. The 21st century will be the biology and medicine.

    If you think about it, that's amazingly true. At the begining of the 20th century, Think about all we discovered - the atom bomb, computers, television, etc. Contrast that with our treatment of disease, which is rudementary at best. Just wait until genetic therapy become available, or disease attacking bacteriophages, or artificialy grown organs. I think medicine is in for revolution.

    --


    To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
    --E.C. Stanton
    1. Re:Just to be a little prophetic here by Liselle · · Score: 2, Interesting
      ...or artificialy grown organs. I think medicine is in for revolution.
      Sounds a little bit too much like pigoons to me. It seems with every leap forward in bioengineering, we're getting closer to that despressing future-world we're always reading about in dystopic novels.
      --
      Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
    2. Re:Just to be a little prophetic here by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just wait until genetic therapy become available, or disease attacking bacteriophages, or artificialy grown organs. I think medicine is in for revolution.

      If that's the case, it's going to be a damned shame if Conservative-sponsored legislation makes all these biomedical discoveries illegal in the United States. A lot of human suffering will continue, which could have been avoided had certain people of influence not been frightened by what they don't understand.

    3. Re:Just to be a little prophetic here by Liselle · · Score: 2

      Hug me till you drug me, honey;
      Kiss me till I'm in a coma:
      Hug me, honey, snuggly bunny;
      Love's as good as soma.

      --
      Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
  11. Re:Iron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, iron has blood (hemoglobin). However, that iron is surrounded by a lipid cell wall, the nanomagnets would have their iron exposed. A weak magnet would only pick up the exposed iron.

  12. Why can't you just drink.... by Asprin · · Score: 4, Funny


    magnetic water?


    HA-HAHAHAHAHA HOHOHOHO HEE!

    My wife actually knows someone that drinks 'magnetic water' to remove various unnamed 'toxins' from her body. Weird.

    --
    "Lawyers are for sucks."
    - Doug McKenzie
    1. Re:Why can't you just drink.... by Asprin · · Score: 4, Informative


      It's been a few years since I had to think about this, but I think that's an electric dipole moment, not a magnetic moment you're thinking of.

      As I remember it, the 'V' shaped arrangement (H-O-H) of the atoms in the H2O molecule result in a slight misalignment of the electron clouds of the atoms, causing a small electric dipole moment capable of bonding other nearby similarly configured molecules into chains. It's responsible for the hydrogen bonding that gives water its viscosity.

      --
      "Lawyers are for sucks."
      - Doug McKenzie
  13. Tiny little buzzkills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Finally, a drug-free school zone with teeth. Just say no! Or not. We'll get you either way.

  14. That would explain... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...why my tinfoil hat was sucked into my ear after my doctors appointment.

  15. Small arterial shunt changed WHILE YOU WAIT by karmaflux · · Score: 4, Funny

    So is this research sponsored by Jiffy Lube?

    "Remember, get your oil and your small arterial shunt changed every three months or three thousand miles."

    --

    REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.

  16. DARPA redeemed by RobertB-DC · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At the end of the article was some interesting information:
    The research is sponsored by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and the U.S. Department of Energy.

    Perhaps this will help DARPA regain some of its cachet after the embarassingly stupid gaffe by Terror Bookie John Poindexter. Got to take the bad with the good, I guess... it's nice to be reminded that the Internet isn't all DARPA ever helped get off the ground.

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
  17. Why wait? by jimcooncat · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Kaminski said Food and Drug Administration trials will start in five years." Why do we have to wait five years? We need open source drug development. Yeah, it's dangerous, but so is rocketry.

  18. So, we're injecting nanoparticles now, eh by Raul654 · · Score: 4, Funny

    How long until we get the full borg suit? (And for the record, I call dibbs on 7 of 9)

    --


    To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
    --E.C. Stanton
  19. So if that's the case by mcc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I heard a saying: The 20th century was the century of physics. The 21st century will be the biology and medicine.

    What will be the 21st century's analogue of the atom bomb?

    --
    Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
    1. Re:So if that's the case by Carnildo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What will be the 21st century's analogue of the atom bomb?

      I don't want to know.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:So if that's the case by espressojim · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Speaking as a molecular biologist / bioinformatics guy...

      How 'bout "lab on a chip"? I'd prefer a sequencer on a chip, so I can tell exactly what base you have at your 3 billion positions. Let me do that to 100,000 people of various ethnicities and diseases, and I'll give you back a bucket full of cures.

      I don't know if there's going to be a single technology that is like the atom bomb, because the technology to generate data for genetic studies is ramping up at a level similar to Moore's law. There's fierce competition to develope the fastest ways to determine what your genetic sequence looks like (we do it a base at a time at targeted locations now - single base genotyping). While the scale that data can be collected on has grown dramatically, there hasn't been any fantastic breakthroughts - or should I say that people are making breakthroughs all the time?

      50 years ago, there wasn't much we could do. Now we can sequence our own genes. Or build our own genes from scratch. Sequence an animal in MONTHS (they aren't less complex than humans, we're just better at in now than a few years ago.) We can look at the expression of protiens or RNA in your cells. We're slowly determining the structure of protiens. We're learning basic facts about how genetic networks can be constructed.

      There will be no single bullet, just a constant grinding away at mysteries. There will be plenty of technology to assist, but it will still be up to the brightest of us to figure out the best way to use it.

      -Jim

  20. Great news! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2, Funny
    Now they can cure Jake 2.0, and we won't have to watch that crap anymore!

    BTW - Jake, if you're reading this, that doctor chick totally has the hots for you, dude...

  21. Fast-Forward 10 Years by johnthorensen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    December 9, 2013

    Drug Abusers Use Nanotechnology to Duck Routine Screening Tests
     It seems that a technology poised to replace dialysis and other blood-purifying procedures has been hijacked to thwart detection of illegal substances in the bloodstream. Using magnetic nanoparticles, drug abusers can pull every last trace of an illegal substance from their system before submitting to the test.

    "I first found about this from a friend in L.A.," says black marketeer Hans Gruber. "We are right now mixing cocktails to strip barbituates, THC, amphetamines, you name it. It's going to give a big boost to the illegal drug industry - people don't have to worry about being caught at work anymore".

    On the other side of the issue, security analysts believe that surprise screening tests are the solution to this new development. Informing a candidate that they will be required to submit to a test immediately will help catch some of the would-be "nano-cheaters".

    "Yeah, you could do surprise tests...or I could just offer a nanostripper with every drug purchase, to be run immediately after the customer comes down off their high." Such a practice still wouldn't let people go to work while intoxicated, but would keep them from getting picked up Monday morning for their Saturday night indescrecions.

    It is unknown just how soon these "nanostrippers" will be readily available on the black market, but given the ease with which they can be synthesized, it is expected that production methods similar to the "meth labs" of the '00s could be employed. Even more interesting is the fact that the molecules are only regarded as Class C Nanoproducts under the Nanotechnology Protection Act of 2018, so very little punishment could be currently handed out for their synthesis and/or possession.

    1. Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Funny

      The problem with nanostrippers is that you need a very high-power microscope to see them grinding on their carbon nanotube pole.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years by BigRedFish · · Score: 4, Funny

      December 10, 2013
      part II in a series

      Corporate Managers Confounded by Nanotechnology's Defeat of Drug Testing
      The effect of nano-detox on corporate America has prompted uncertainty in HR departments across the USA.

      "I'm confused by it," said Project Manager Mark Greene. "It used to be, I knew what was expected of me. Promote guys who dress like me, hire women I consider f--kable. If anyone fails random urinalysis, fire them."

      Now, I don't know what to do," he continued. "If the drug tests don't work, how am I supposed to know whether my employees are doing their jobs adequately? I might have to... what's the word, it starts with T, the, that... THINK. That's it. I'd have to think of a way to keep track of what my employees are doing at work. That's not the job of a manager as I understand it, and they sure didn't teach us to think in Business School. I was hired because I look good in a suit."

      Some business analysts have suggested that the impact to the corporate bottom line could be huge.

      "Let's face it," said Joanna Goldstein, of the market analysis firm Goldstein & Meyers, "This could add a lot to the cost of middle and upper level management."

      "It already costs almost $10 million a year to put someone in that management chair," she continued. "If that person has to also be able to track ongoing corporate projects under his control, plus think of a way to determine which employees are performing other than by what they like to do on the week-end, it could add a lot to the cost of executive talent."

      "Without that litmus test, management will have to pay attention, be realistic, and exercise some critical thought. Good luck finding an MBA with those skills, and expect it to be expensive if you do."

      Ed Warren, a senior manager at computer maker HardenSoft, adopted another idea during a recent three-martini meeting with senior execs: ban use of the nanotech devices by employees entirely.

      "You can tell where the arterial shunt was inserted for a few days afterward; we might just start looking for that telltale bruise," he said, between lines of cocaine. "Maybe a few employees with legitimate health problems will fall through the cracks, but that's a small price to pay for me to avoid having to pay attention to what goes on in this office, or, God forbid, what's that word that starts with T? Think?"

      "Of course, management is exempt," he said with a smile, wiping the powder from his nose. "I'm off to get nano-detoxed tomorrow, but right now I have to go fire anyone who smoked a joint within the last month. I always enjoy a little bump to help me feel powerful before I do that."

  22. fun in airports? by wo1verin3 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wonder if there is enough concentration that this would set off airport metal detectors... :security guy bob: Sir, please step through the metal detector again :security guy joe: I don't understand it, he's completely naked and we've done a cavity search!

  23. Re:COOL by Trigun · · Score: 5, Funny

    really then, what's the point?

    I'd rather pay for a cab then jam an arterial shunt into my leg that could bleed me dry in under an hour. Couple that with the fact that I would be drunk whilst doing said leg jamming, and I'd choose to have my address and a cab company's dispatch number tatooed to my forearm.

    But you go spend your money to get not drunk. I'll be the one in the back of the cab with the ugly girl who's going to get lucky, puking my guts out.. You have your fun... Uhh,

    How much does this procedure cost?

  24. I can't wait! by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 4, Funny

    Man, I have to know, when will Billy Mays begin hawking the DIY at home kit?

    Nothing like sticking a dual-channel shunt into your own leg artery..

    And if Billy is selling it I *know* it's A-OK !

  25. Re:Iron by CJ+Hooknose · · Score: 5, Informative
    ornil wrote: Admittedly, I know nothing about this [...] Isn't there iron in blood as well? Would that cause problems?

    From the article: "Small crystals of magnetite are added to the particles..." . Magnetite (Fe3O4) is magnetic because the 2 Fe+3 ions arranged with the Fe+2 ion in that specific configuration make for "magnetic domains", regions in the magnetite crystals where all the unpaired electrons are spinning the same way[0]. The iron in the hemoglobin in your blood is either Fe+2 or +3, no magnetic domains can exist because the hemoglobin molecules are floating around in solution and don't line up at all--no ferromagnetism. Even if you had a crystal of pure hemoglobin, it'd be paramagnetic (very weakly magnetic, like pure oxygen) or diamagnetic (no magnetic effects at all). You can see this for yourself by trying to pick up a drop of your own blood with a really strong horseshoe magnet.

    [0] Well, not really, but the real explanation involves a lot of math and I can't remember it anyway.

    --
    Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe.
  26. Practical application by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Hi, Argonne National Lab Gift Store? Do you have bioactive nanoparticles keyed to latch onto THC? I have a drug test coming up tomorrow."

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    1. Re:Practical application by mindriot · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nice idea, but keep in mind that THC can be traced at other places in your body than just in your blood. Hair comes to mind, for instance. So for now, this technology, if it ever becomes practical, won't save you from the consequences of a drug test...

  27. Oh, RTA... by Snootch · · Score: 4, Informative

    The body would attack those things because they are foreign

    Read the article, my friend - they're coated so they don't get recognised as antigens. Nor will they get stuck (they took care over this one, designed wuith reference to pore sizes), and in any case are biodegradable.

  28. Re:magnets!! by DrXym · · Score: 3, Informative
    Chiu is a quack, as are all sellers of magna-therapy bracelets, sole inliners etc. They wouldn't know science, double blind testing, the placebo effect or reality for that matter if it bit them on the ass.


    The sad thing is they'll use stories like this to hawk their snake oil.

  29. Magnetite occurs naturally in the body, so ... by Ranazar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    According to http://www.rfsafe.com/research/rf_radiation/therma l_hazards/intro.htm:

    Magnetite is found in certain bacteria and in the cells of many animals, including human beings.

    Does this mean that this treatment would also pull out any bacteria in the body that contains magnetite?

  30. Re:magnets!! by morganjharvey · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yeah, my favorite thing about Alex Chiu is that if you pay him for his immortality device, he offers a 90 day, money back gaurantee.

    I've always wondered how one gauges the effectiveness of an immortality device in only 90 days...

  31. Re:COOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Please sir, can you provide me with erotic stories about puking on your partner while having sex? thank you

  32. Sadly by taniwha · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the magnet-quack people will probably start quoting this as a wonderfull scientific study that proves what they've been saying for years .... and most people wont read past the headlines ....

  33. Well, I RTAed and I have similar questions. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The body would attack those things because they are foreign

    Read the article, my friend - they're coated so they don't get recognised as antigens. Nor will they get stuck (they took care over this one, designed wuith reference to pore sizes), and in any case are biodegradable.

    I read it too, and I see a couple problems with the claims.

    First: While the propylene glycol coating will protect the basic particle (for a while), the active antibodies that cause it to latch onto targets have to stick out. If some of the body's own antibodies latch onto those, it ends up "decorated". This will almost certainly trigger a bunch of attacks on it - which could cause damage to normal tissues nearby even if they don't result in defeating the glycol coat and starting the disassembly or macrophage-consumption of the particle.

    The side-effect attack could result in anaphylactic shock if it is large enough, so using it to clean out circulating antibodies may turn out to be probelematic - requiring careful control of dosage and time-before-cleanout.

    Even if this scenario is true in practice, however, the technique might still be useful against auto-immune diseases, where the antibodies in question will already be triggering as much collateral-damage as if they were attacking the particles. If it turns out not to be an issue, lots of other severe allergies may be susceptable to treatment by this technique.

    Second: The sizing of the particles prevents their being trapped in capilaries or dumped by kidneys. But if the thing they bind to happens to be anchored to the inside of a blood-vessel they still get stuck. This could produce clots blocking the vessel if there's a lot of anchored target in one place. Even if there isn't, the particle gets stuck until the glycol wears off and the biodegradable core breaks down, after which you're left with:
    - Antibodies decorating the target. (This may actually be good, but will probably result in blood vessel inflamation which is not.)
    - Magnetite particles in the blood stream. (Hard, sharp, reactive, iron oxide particles.) Same cleanup problem as the small number that didn't get cleaned out in the non-anchored case, but much larger. Iron ions are not nice.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  34. Life Extension by Michael+Crutcher · · Score: 3, Interesting
    It would seem to me that another use of this technology would be dramatic life extension. I envision scientists creating replacement cells and attaching them to the nanoparticles. Then the particles go through the blood stream attaching to damaged cells. The attachment to a damaged cell causes a replacement cell attached to the nanoparticle to be released. Then the nanoparticles and the damaged cells they are attached to are removed from the blood stream.

    I guess it's pretty sci-fi, but it seems like all the pieces need for it to work are already here or will be soon. Will remaining young at some time be much like an oil change for your car? Would you go to the doctors office and have a certain percentage of your cells replaced?

  35. Re:magnets!! by Have+Blue · · Score: 2, Funny

    Obviously, you try to kill yourself. If you succeed, then you get your money back.

  36. Maybe next century... by freeze128 · · Score: 5, Funny
    The 20th century was the century of physics. The 21st century will be the biology and medicine.
    I think you're off by one. The 21st century is the century of lawyers and patents. Maybe the 22nd century can be of biology and medicine.
  37. "picking up target toxins..." by ramk13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Has no one else noticed that this approach is:
    a) fairly invasive? To treat a lot of blood in a short amount of time you need a pretty good flow rate. Which means you need a big hole in a big artery. I don't like big holes in my major arteries, but that's just me. I suppose if you were fitted with some sort of interface/valve it would be fine, but if you started bleeding through that hole later you'd be in serious trouble.

    b) very specific? You have to make an antibody/couple for *every* molebule you want to catch.

    I think this is more hype than something practical, at least for the time being. It might be different in a while after they've developed it (and done lots and lots more human trials.)

  38. Coming Soon To A Theater Near You by OldManAndTheC++ · · Score: 2, Funny
    a bacterium the size of a dinosaur over ten stories tall

    Run for your lives! It's.... E. Colizilla!!!!

    --
    Soylent Green is peoplicious!
  39. Happens all the time by Theatetus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Even scientists don't read past headlines anymore, it seems (or journal abstracts, in their case).

    I read a cool study about the influence of journal abstracts. They looked at all the surveys of the correlation between saturated fat consumption and heart disease. One early study showed there was a correlation between consuming saturated fats and heart disease. Just about every subsequent study has concluded the same thing. However, the data they actually presented in the article almost always showed the opposite; that saturated fat consumption reduces heart disease rates.

    But, all any of the peer reviewers read is the abstract. So, the myth keeps strengthening itself. I'd love to see similar studies in areas other than nutrition.

    It's not just the peasants who accept things uncritically.

    --
    All's true that is mistrusted
    1. Re:Happens all the time by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 2

      Got links?

  40. would be nice, but... by atheist666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1. Anti-toxin nanoparticles injected
    2. Nanoparticles bind up toxin
    3. Nanoparticles and toxins form crosslinked conjugates
    4. Conjugates plug up small arteries
    5. Patient dies of stroke, or renal failure, or etc.

    To prevent the crosslinking, you'd have to make sure the nanoparticle would have to bind only 1 'toxin' molecule. You'd have to inject as many nanoparticles as there are molecules of what you want to get rid of, which doesn't sound fun.

  41. A whole lot is magnetic by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are three types of magnetism in substances:

    Ferromagnetism: This is what we'd call magnetic normally. things like iron or some advanced ceramics are this. It is a strongly magnetic material.

    Dimagnetic: This is completely non-magnetic. Helium would be a good example. Most people think that everything that isn't ferromagnetic is in this category but it's not.

    Paramagnetic: This is a very weak magnetic attraction. Much, much weaker than something that is ferromagnetic, but still influenced by magnets. Water would be an example of a paramagnetic substance.

    So you can technically call water magnetic. I mean you can influence it, if you've got a strong enough magnet. It's got to be real, REAL strong though. No fridge magnets or anything.

  42. Sounds a little like kidney dialysis by HarveyBirdman · · Score: 2, Interesting
    My mum has a permanent shunt in her arm for her thrice weekly trips to the kidney dialysis center. She doesn't even know it's there when not hooked up. We call her the Borg Queen now.

    So instead of passing the blood through an external filter, they send in little buggers to grab the bad molecules and take them out through a similar shunt.

    --
    --- Ban humanity.
  43. Damn.. by Hodr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is alot of trouble for someone to go through just to pass a piss test. Although as an employer, I think I would have no problems highering someone motivated enough to do this.

  44. True, but water works. by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Informative

    In case you are caught unprepared without your Ultimate Hangover Cure (nice link btw), chugging several Big Gulps full of water before hitting the sack is a tremendous help. Most of the hangover symptoms (headaches, nausea, dry mouth, aching joints) are either caused or exacerbated by the dehydration that results from drinking. Even if you're lacking B-complex vitamins and a way to neutralize the acetaldehyde, 40 oz of water will go a long, long way toward making the next day as pleasant as possible.

    People may not believe this, since drinking water on the day after does very little to make the hangover go away. Trust me, chug water before going to bed.

    Oh, and since your web link didn't have this piece of advice, I add it here: Avoid tequila like the demon-spawned liquor of evil that it is.

    Or at least don't mix it with beer.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  45. A company I worked for... by cornice · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A company I worked for a while back had a product that it was testing that could remove all sort of things from the blood. It had been tested in humans a few times removing heprin in people that would have otherwise bled out. The company ditched the product after the higher-ups decided the time and cost to bring it to market was too great. The researcher who championed the technology fought bravely to keep it alive, touting its potential to remove all sorts of toxins, but the short term gains just were not there. Now the technology likely sits in a pile of boxes somewhere instead of saving and improving lives. It makes me wonder how many other stories there are just like this one.

  46. This isn't really new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is a new and surprising application of an old technology. We routinely use a similar technique in the lab to precipitate proteins. You basically immobilize antibodies that recognize a specific protein on magnetic beads, then suspend the beads in a cell extract. The antibodies bind the targeted protein to the beads, and when you apply a magnetic field, the beads stick to the side of the tube, and you can suck off the crap you don't want, washing multiple times.

    The beads we use are very human-unfriendly, but the basic concept is the same. It also means that anything you can raise antibodies against can be pulled out of solution with this technique. Only one problem: antibodies are EXPENSIVE. Using enough to pull all of a given toxin out of a human would cost hundreds of dollars, if not more.

  47. Usable for fat redistribution? by g.a.g · · Score: 2, Funny

    What I'd like to see this technology used for is fat redistribution. Imagine these critters being injected at your fat repositories, latching onto a fat cell, getting into your bloodstream and depositing it either through the shunt or wherever you have the magnetic field positioned.

    Usage: inject in the hips, wear magnetic bra! Result: Big boobs, thin legs!
    Why make trillions, if I could make ... billions!?

    --
    Hurricane Application Group, Dept of Meteorology Control, Ministry of Proactive Defense