Detoxing With Magnets for Fun and Profit

Ridgelift writes "Wired has an article on a new way to remove toxins from the bloodstream. The Argonne National Laboratory have designed nanoparticles which 'identify, and then latch onto, target molecules. The nanoparticles are injected into the bloodstream, where they circulate through the body, picking up their target toxins as they go. Once they have made their rounds, all that's needed to remove the particles from the body are a magnet housed in a handheld unit and a small, dual-channel shunt inserted into an arm or leg artery.'"

Comments

X2 a Reality

[Ridgelift]

Magneto: Something's different, today... [Holds up a hand, and the guard freezes] Too much iron in your blood!

Re:X2 a Reality

[geeveees]

And Hemoglobin contains a Fe atom so that it can bind with O2, this allows red blood cells to transport a lot more oxygen. So the downside to this would be the same as CO-poisoning (the Fe binds with the CO, not with O. This binding lasts a long time, you die...).

Re:X2 a Reality

[Carnildo]

The iron in hemoglobin isn't magnetic, so this won't have any more effect on blood cells than the "improve your circulation" magnets do.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Roger_Wilco]

Well, that's sort of right.

De-oxygenated hemoglobin isn't magnetic, but oxygenated hemoglobic is paramagnetic. That's why fMRI works. fMRI is a clever technique using the same MRI technology used for imaging, but tuned to see changes in blood oxygen concentration. It's used to estimate brain activity, and also to detect poor circulation in the heart.

Re:X2 a Reality

[Sgt York]

MRI does not look for iron. It's based on certain isotopes and how they behave in a magnetic and RF fields, mostly hydrogen and oxygen.

The short of it is that atoms spin on an axis, and if you put atoms in a strong magnetic field, their spin axes will mostly line up. Adding a strong RF pulse will "tip" them in one direction (like tipping a spinning top) and they will precess while going back to alignment with the field. This precession can be picked up as a seperate RF emission, and the nature of the emission from each atom will be affected by what atoms are around it. It's the same concept as NMR, just that medical MRI looks for the specific signature of water, finding differences in tissue density.

Re:X2 a Reality

[jcp797]

yes, nuclear magnetic resonance imaging does not look for iron but he said fMRI

Now all they..

[panxerox]

need is a car mounted version so I can plug in saturday night after a round at the bars. hmm mabee they could shunt the removed "products" directly to my carborator.. Profit !

What about...

[mgcsinc]

The article mentions simple, nice uses such as detoxing or removing poisons from the bloodstream, but what prevents a similar method from being designed (all be it you would have to design particles corresponding to these to be in the bloodstream) to remove viral infections from the blood? That seems like where the real interest in this technology would be!

Re:What about...

[KrispyKringle]

I'm no doctor, but I'd make a couple of guesses:

It seems like if the effectiveness weren't 100%, it may not matter for detox, since it may get the toxin levels below tolerance, but for a virus, it may simply meet as soon as you stop, the virus spreads again.

It may be far harder to make things to bond to the virus. The particles being bonded to may have well known chemical properties, but it seems like if it were that simple to make things bond to viruses, we'd have little problem treating them, magnet or no.

Just a guess, though. Anyone here actually know about this stuff? :P

Re:What about...

[KrispyKringle]

But there are a few comments about treating auto-immune diseases and anthrax. So maybe it's useful as an intermediary treatment for some easily-targeted particles, but doesn't completely remove an infection?

Re:What about...

[KiwiEngineer]

I, too had similar thoughts, but in order to not appear redundant in my post I decided to find out the particle size of a typical virus.

I found this at drgreene.com

Viruses range in size from 20 to 250 nanometers

The average bacterium is 1,000 nanometers long.

If a bacterium were my size, a typical virus particle would look like a tiny mouse-robot. If an average virus were my size, a bacterium would be the size of a dinosaur over ten stories tall.

It could be a scale thing taht means this first generation of magnetic detox devices are too large to pick up virus particles. i don't know what sort of % you would need to remove of a viral infection compared to a bacterial infection to ensure a recovery by the casualty, but suspect it would be a lot higher for a virus.

Another problem could lie in the changing nature of viruses, making them a harder target to select for when designing your magnetised particles.

It would be a wonderful application if it works.

Re:What about...

[Eskarel]

Well the body can produce things which bond to specific viruses those things are called anti-bodies and are relatively effective for most diseases spread by viruses(excluding those which kill too fast or attack the immune system(HIV)) but you're probably right it wouldn't be all that effective and there are probably better ways to do it.

The thing I would be interested to see is a cancer treatment based on this idea. Not to actually cure cancer since I don't think that's possible with this method but to pick up the cancerous cells in the bloodstream and prevent them from spreading cancer to other parts of the body. A lot of times it's when the cancers have metastecized(no idea of spelling) to other parts of the body that you get the real problems. Not to mention it might reduce the chances of cancer recurring.

Re:What about...

[mec]

[I'm only about one or two Scientific American articles ahead of you, so let's hope that a real molecular biology geek shows up].

This is what antibodies are for. You need to make an antibody that has a very high specific affinity for the virus and a lower affinity for friendly cells. (Nature does this by generating large numbers of antibodies at random, then filtering out antibodies that show reactivity with your own cells. All the rest are let loose in the body).

Then you attach the magnetized tag on the other end of the antibody.

The antibody attaches to the virus in a death grip, and then the little black box can filter out the magnetized tag.

You don't have to remove 100% of the virus load to cure somebody. You just have to get a lot of the virus so that the body's natural immune system can fight the rest.

Indeed, other groups have tried the antibody idea with different payloads, such as a radioactive atom bonded onto the antibody. The antibody attaches to the virus or the cancer cell, then the radioactive atom decays right there next to the bad cell.

Re:What about...

[StringBlade]

I would be leary about dragging cancerous cells out of the body using magnets unless that magnetic field was strong enough and it could be shown that none of the particles are left behind along the "exit route". If the magnet were to drop any of the cancer cells after relocating them from some other area you may actually be spreading the cancer much faster than it would have done itself.

Re:What about...

[hollo32]

I'm no doctor, but I'd make a couple of guesses:

Well I am a doctor, but it's not really my field and I've had a few drinks. I'll have a go anyway.

There are two problems with this technique for dealing with viruses like HIV. One is that viruses can only reproduce inside human cells and spend most of their time there. None of these nanoparticles are going to be able to get inside the cells so they are not going to get to where the virus is. Instead there is the much trickier task of detecting cells which have the virus inside.

The other problem is that the HIV virus in particular appears to mutate very rapidly. There is one part of the outside of the virus capsule which has to stay the same as it binds strongly to a particular protein on the outside of the cells it is going to infect in order to attach to them. This region which stays the same is flanked by areas that change rapidly from generation to generation to make it difficult for the body to recognise the virus.

Finally!

[Theatetus]

Something to do with all these spare small, dual-channel arterial shunts I have lying around...

No longer quack medicine

[Carnildo]

Finally, an actual medical benefit from magnets!

MRI

[Evil Adrian]

I wonder how long you wouldn't be allowed to get an MRI for... I'd imagine those little beasties would tear you apart if you got one!

Re:MRI

[mariox19]

As I understand it, hospitals are reluctant to give some construction workers MRI's as the average worker is sure to have accumulated tiny metal shards in his or her eyes, shards that go unnoticed until someone turns on the juice.

The MRI question for all of this is a good one.

Oh great...

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

Now those people selling the magnetic bracelets and insoles are going to be using this as 'proof' that their useless peices of crap really work.

Introducing Chaser 2!

[numbski]

Take Chaser 2 shortly after you begin drinking, and drink all night long!

The next morning, just insert the handy-dandy magetized needle, and lookie! Hangover-over!

Re:Introducing Chaser 2!

[Lafe]

Hangovers are caused by your body being dehydrated. To fix the worst of the effect, drink lots of water (preferably the night before) or, if you happen to be an EMT, stick some saline solution right into your blood.

Not quite.

Hangovers are caused by your body producing acetaldehyde as it metabolizes alcohol. Dehydration does play a role, but it is a supporting role.

A good description of what happens, and good advice on what to do about it can be found here.

Alternatively, you can pick up the RU-21 pill designed by the KGB to keep their agents from getting hangovers.

Just to be a little prophetic here

[Raul654]

I heard a saying: The 20th century was the century of physics. The 21st century will be the biology and medicine.

If you think about it, that's amazingly true. At the begining of the 20th century, Think about all we discovered - the atom bomb, computers, television, etc. Contrast that with our treatment of disease, which is rudementary at best. Just wait until genetic therapy become available, or disease attacking bacteriophages, or artificialy grown organs. I think medicine is in for revolution.

Re:Just to be a little prophetic here

[poot_rootbeer]

Just wait until genetic therapy become available, or disease attacking bacteriophages, or artificialy grown organs. I think medicine is in for revolution.

If that's the case, it's going to be a damned shame if Conservative-sponsored legislation makes all these biomedical discoveries illegal in the United States. A lot of human suffering will continue, which could have been avoided had certain people of influence not been frightened by what they don't understand.

Why can't you just drink....

[Asprin]

magnetic water?


HA-HAHAHAHAHA HOHOHOHO HEE!

My wife actually knows someone that drinks 'magnetic water' to remove various unnamed 'toxins' from her body. Weird.

Re:Why can't you just drink....

[Asprin]

It's been a few years since I had to think about this, but I think that's an electric dipole moment, not a magnetic moment you're thinking of.

As I remember it, the 'V' shaped arrangement (H-O-H) of the atoms in the H2O molecule result in a slight misalignment of the electron clouds of the atoms, causing a small electric dipole moment capable of bonding other nearby similarly configured molecules into chains. It's responsible for the hydrogen bonding that gives water its viscosity.

Tiny little buzzkills

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally, a drug-free school zone with teeth. Just say no! Or not. We'll get you either way.

Small arterial shunt changed WHILE YOU WAIT

[karmaflux]

So is this research sponsored by Jiffy Lube?

"Remember, get your oil and your small arterial shunt changed every three months or three thousand miles."

DARPA redeemed

[RobertB-DC]

At the end of the article was some interesting information:
The research is sponsored by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and the U.S. Department of Energy.

Perhaps this will help DARPA regain some of its cachet after the embarassingly stupid gaffe by Terror Bookie John Poindexter. Got to take the bad with the good, I guess... it's nice to be reminded that the Internet isn't all DARPA ever helped get off the ground.

Why wait?

[jimcooncat]

"Kaminski said Food and Drug Administration trials will start in five years." Why do we have to wait five years? We need open source drug development. Yeah, it's dangerous, but so is rocketry.

So, we're injecting nanoparticles now, eh

[Raul654]

How long until we get the full borg suit? (And for the record, I call dibbs on 7 of 9)

So if that's the case

[mcc]

I heard a saying: The 20th century was the century of physics. The 21st century will be the biology and medicine.

What will be the 21st century's analogue of the atom bomb?

Re:So if that's the case

[espressojim]

Speaking as a molecular biologist / bioinformatics guy...

How 'bout "lab on a chip"? I'd prefer a sequencer on a chip, so I can tell exactly what base you have at your 3 billion positions. Let me do that to 100,000 people of various ethnicities and diseases, and I'll give you back a bucket full of cures.

I don't know if there's going to be a single technology that is like the atom bomb, because the technology to generate data for genetic studies is ramping up at a level similar to Moore's law. There's fierce competition to develope the fastest ways to determine what your genetic sequence looks like (we do it a base at a time at targeted locations now - single base genotyping). While the scale that data can be collected on has grown dramatically, there hasn't been any fantastic breakthroughts - or should I say that people are making breakthroughs all the time?

50 years ago, there wasn't much we could do. Now we can sequence our own genes. Or build our own genes from scratch. Sequence an animal in MONTHS (they aren't less complex than humans, we're just better at in now than a few years ago.) We can look at the expression of protiens or RNA in your cells. We're slowly determining the structure of protiens. We're learning basic facts about how genetic networks can be constructed.

There will be no single bullet, just a constant grinding away at mysteries. There will be plenty of technology to assist, but it will still be up to the brightest of us to figure out the best way to use it.

-Jim

Fast-Forward 10 Years

[johnthorensen]

December 9, 2013

Drug Abusers Use Nanotechnology to Duck Routine Screening Tests
It seems that a technology poised to replace dialysis and other blood-purifying procedures has been hijacked to thwart detection of illegal substances in the bloodstream. Using magnetic nanoparticles, drug abusers can pull every last trace of an illegal substance from their system before submitting to the test.

"I first found about this from a friend in L.A.," says black marketeer Hans Gruber. "We are right now mixing cocktails to strip barbituates, THC, amphetamines, you name it. It's going to give a big boost to the illegal drug industry - people don't have to worry about being caught at work anymore".

On the other side of the issue, security analysts believe that surprise screening tests are the solution to this new development. Informing a candidate that they will be required to submit to a test immediately will help catch some of the would-be "nano-cheaters".

"Yeah, you could do surprise tests...or I could just offer a nanostripper with every drug purchase, to be run immediately after the customer comes down off their high." Such a practice still wouldn't let people go to work while intoxicated, but would keep them from getting picked up Monday morning for their Saturday night indescrecions.

It is unknown just how soon these "nanostrippers" will be readily available on the black market, but given the ease with which they can be synthesized, it is expected that production methods similar to the "meth labs" of the '00s could be employed. Even more interesting is the fact that the molecules are only regarded as Class C Nanoproducts under the Nanotechnology Protection Act of 2018, so very little punishment could be currently handed out for their synthesis and/or possession.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[drinkypoo]

The problem with nanostrippers is that you need a very high-power microscope to see them grinding on their carbon nanotube pole.

Re:Fast-Forward 10 Years

[BigRedFish]

December 10, 2013
part II in a series

Corporate Managers Confounded by Nanotechnology's Defeat of Drug Testing
The effect of nano-detox on corporate America has prompted uncertainty in HR departments across the USA.

"I'm confused by it," said Project Manager Mark Greene. "It used to be, I knew what was expected of me. Promote guys who dress like me, hire women I consider f--kable. If anyone fails random urinalysis, fire them."

Now, I don't know what to do," he continued. "If the drug tests don't work, how am I supposed to know whether my employees are doing their jobs adequately? I might have to... what's the word, it starts with T, the, that... THINK. That's it. I'd have to think of a way to keep track of what my employees are doing at work. That's not the job of a manager as I understand it, and they sure didn't teach us to think in Business School. I was hired because I look good in a suit."

Some business analysts have suggested that the impact to the corporate bottom line could be huge.

"Let's face it," said Joanna Goldstein, of the market analysis firm Goldstein & Meyers, "This could add a lot to the cost of middle and upper level management."

"It already costs almost $10 million a year to put someone in that management chair," she continued. "If that person has to also be able to track ongoing corporate projects under his control, plus think of a way to determine which employees are performing other than by what they like to do on the week-end, it could add a lot to the cost of executive talent."

"Without that litmus test, management will have to pay attention, be realistic, and exercise some critical thought. Good luck finding an MBA with those skills, and expect it to be expensive if you do."

Ed Warren, a senior manager at computer maker HardenSoft, adopted another idea during a recent three-martini meeting with senior execs: ban use of the nanotech devices by employees entirely.

"You can tell where the arterial shunt was inserted for a few days afterward; we might just start looking for that telltale bruise," he said, between lines of cocaine. "Maybe a few employees with legitimate health problems will fall through the cracks, but that's a small price to pay for me to avoid having to pay attention to what goes on in this office, or, God forbid, what's that word that starts with T? Think?"

"Of course, management is exempt," he said with a smile, wiping the powder from his nose. "I'm off to get nano-detoxed tomorrow, but right now I have to go fire anyone who smoked a joint within the last month. I always enjoy a little bump to help me feel powerful before I do that."

fun in airports?

[wo1verin3]

I wonder if there is enough concentration that this would set off airport metal detectors... :security guy bob: Sir, please step through the metal detector again :security guy joe: I don't understand it, he's completely naked and we've done a cavity search!

Re:COOL

[Trigun]

really then, what's the point?

I'd rather pay for a cab then jam an arterial shunt into my leg that could bleed me dry in under an hour. Couple that with the fact that I would be drunk whilst doing said leg jamming, and I'd choose to have my address and a cab company's dispatch number tatooed to my forearm.

But you go spend your money to get not drunk. I'll be the one in the back of the cab with the ugly girl who's going to get lucky, puking my guts out.. You have your fun... Uhh,

How much does this procedure cost?

I can't wait!

[pair-a-noyd]

Man, I have to know, when will Billy Mays begin hawking the DIY at home kit?

Nothing like sticking a dual-channel shunt into your own leg artery..

And if Billy is selling it I *know* it's A-OK !

Re:Iron

[CJ Hooknose]

ornil wrote: Admittedly, I know nothing about this [...] Isn't there iron in blood as well? Would that cause problems?

From the article: "Small crystals of magnetite are added to the particles..." . Magnetite (Fe3O4) is magnetic because the 2 Fe+3 ions arranged with the Fe+2 ion in that specific configuration make for "magnetic domains", regions in the magnetite crystals where all the unpaired electrons are spinning the same way[0]. The iron in the hemoglobin in your blood is either Fe+2 or +3, no magnetic domains can exist because the hemoglobin molecules are floating around in solution and don't line up at all--no ferromagnetism. Even if you had a crystal of pure hemoglobin, it'd be paramagnetic (very weakly magnetic, like pure oxygen) or diamagnetic (no magnetic effects at all). You can see this for yourself by trying to pick up a drop of your own blood with a really strong horseshoe magnet.

[0] Well, not really, but the real explanation involves a lot of math and I can't remember it anyway.

Practical application

[Hoi Polloi]

"Hi, Argonne National Lab Gift Store? Do you have bioactive nanoparticles keyed to latch onto THC? I have a drug test coming up tomorrow."

Oh, RTA...

[Snootch]

The body would attack those things because they are foreign

Read the article, my friend - they're coated so they don't get recognised as antigens. Nor will they get stuck (they took care over this one, designed wuith reference to pore sizes), and in any case are biodegradable.

Re:magnets!!

[DrXym]

Chiu is a quack, as are all sellers of magna-therapy bracelets, sole inliners etc. They wouldn't know science, double blind testing, the placebo effect or reality for that matter if it bit them on the ass.

The sad thing is they'll use stories like this to hawk their snake oil.

Magnetite occurs naturally in the body, so ...

[Ranazar]

According to http://www.rfsafe.com/research/rf_radiation/therma l_hazards/intro.htm:

Magnetite is found in certain bacteria and in the cells of many animals, including human beings.

Does this mean that this treatment would also pull out any bacteria in the body that contains magnetite?

Re:magnets!!

[morganjharvey]

Yeah, my favorite thing about Alex Chiu is that if you pay him for his immortality device, he offers a 90 day, money back gaurantee.

I've always wondered how one gauges the effectiveness of an immortality device in only 90 days...

Life Extension

[Michael Crutcher]

It would seem to me that another use of this technology would be dramatic life extension. I envision scientists creating replacement cells and attaching them to the nanoparticles. Then the particles go through the blood stream attaching to damaged cells. The attachment to a damaged cell causes a replacement cell attached to the nanoparticle to be released. Then the nanoparticles and the damaged cells they are attached to are removed from the blood stream.

I guess it's pretty sci-fi, but it seems like all the pieces need for it to work are already here or will be soon. Will remaining young at some time be much like an oil change for your car? Would you go to the doctors office and have a certain percentage of your cells replaced?

Maybe next century...

[freeze128]

The 20th century was the century of physics. The 21st century will be the biology and medicine.

I think you're off by one. The 21st century is the century of lawyers and patents. Maybe the 22nd century can be of biology and medicine.

"picking up target toxins..."

[ramk13]

Has no one else noticed that this approach is:
a) fairly invasive? To treat a lot of blood in a short amount of time you need a pretty good flow rate. Which means you need a big hole in a big artery. I don't like big holes in my major arteries, but that's just me. I suppose if you were fitted with some sort of interface/valve it would be fine, but if you started bleeding through that hole later you'd be in serious trouble.

b) very specific? You have to make an antibody/couple for *every* molebule you want to catch.

I think this is more hype than something practical, at least for the time being. It might be different in a while after they've developed it (and done lots and lots more human trials.)

Happens all the time

[Theatetus]

Even scientists don't read past headlines anymore, it seems (or journal abstracts, in their case).

I read a cool study about the influence of journal abstracts. They looked at all the surveys of the correlation between saturated fat consumption and heart disease. One early study showed there was a correlation between consuming saturated fats and heart disease. Just about every subsequent study has concluded the same thing. However, the data they actually presented in the article almost always showed the opposite; that saturated fat consumption reduces heart disease rates.

But, all any of the peer reviewers read is the abstract. So, the myth keeps strengthening itself. I'd love to see similar studies in areas other than nutrition.

It's not just the peasants who accept things uncritically.

True, but water works.

[Chris Burke]

In case you are caught unprepared without your Ultimate Hangover Cure (nice link btw), chugging several Big Gulps full of water before hitting the sack is a tremendous help. Most of the hangover symptoms (headaches, nausea, dry mouth, aching joints) are either caused or exacerbated by the dehydration that results from drinking. Even if you're lacking B-complex vitamins and a way to neutralize the acetaldehyde, 40 oz of water will go a long, long way toward making the next day as pleasant as possible.

People may not believe this, since drinking water on the day after does very little to make the hangover go away. Trust me, chug water before going to bed.

Oh, and since your web link didn't have this piece of advice, I add it here: Avoid tequila like the demon-spawned liquor of evil that it is.

Or at least don't mix it with beer.