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Real Gun Pulled At Counter-Strike Tournament

Posted by simoniker on from the real-life-frag-bad dept.

Audiovore writes "Got Frag? has a press release and interview with the president of Cyber X Gaming about an event which took place after a Counter-Strike LAN gaming qualifier in Los Angeles at the weekend. Apparently, two guys from separate teams got in a fight outside, and when staff tried to break it up one of the participants went to his car, got a gun, and pointed it at the head of a staff member (who happened to be the son of the CXG president.) His team-mates then 'encouraged the person with the gun to fire', although the situation was then calmed down and the remainder of the event was cancelled."

34 of 355 comments (clear)

  1. Oh man.... by hookedup · · Score: 3, Insightful


    Now this is guaranteed be used as ammo (bad pun) for all kinds of 'family' and 'parent' groups all over the place.

    1. Re:Oh man.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Did it ever occur to you that maybe those groups (although often led by idiots, admittedly), may actually have a valid point and maybe these games everyone is so fanatical about really do encourage violence?

      Oh, no. That's not possible. We're all too smart for that. Especially here on /., where we're much better at mechanical skills than we are at having even the vaguest notion of how human emotions work.

    2. Re:Oh man.... by KanshuShintai · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Except that the same kinds of things happen outside of sports events when someone's team loses (even for highschool games, where parents attack each other), and they don't complain about that (much). They'd have to shut them down first, since the people running samller video gaming events can still point fingers at the bigger guys. And we know that sports games are not about to be cancled because of some 'family' or 'parent' groups, because there is too much profit from them.

    3. Re:Oh man.... by MBCook · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Yeah. It's not like there has ever been violence or shootings after football, soccer, baseball, lacross, (insert sport here) games; especially when there is a monetary prize involved (like here). It's only VIDEO games that cause a few nut-jobs to become violent. It's couldn't possibly be the violent PERSON'S fault.

      It's pathetically sad that your statement is true.

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    4. Re:Oh man.... by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Did it ever occur to you that maybe those groups (although often led by idiots, admittedly), may actually have a valid point and maybe these games everyone is so fanatical about really do encourage violence?

      You know, until I read this piece, I'd have disagreed with you. I don't believe the guy who went and got the gun is evidence that FPS games encourage violence. (A pro gun society is what has led to that in his case.) What I DO think is good evidence is his teammates egging him to pull the trigger! I mean what the FUCK?! Egging someone on to commit murder...

      Never thought my opinion would change on this issue, but it has.

    5. Re:Oh man.... by Fred+IV · · Score: 3, Funny

      I gave someone a bloddy nose with a Bible once, outside of a church. (Vacation Bible School and I did not get along). Does that mean that Bible Study causes violence too?

      Idiots will do what idiots do. The vast majority of gamers will never hurt anyone, much less carry a gun around "just in case".

      When all, most, or even a tenth of gamers start acting violently, maybe I'll consider that there's some kind of relationship between gaming and violence.

      - FIV

    6. Re:Oh man.... by darthwader · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, I know that in the ./ world I'm going to be jumped on for saying this, but there may be some truth to it.

      Obviously playing a video games does not guarantee the player will become homicidal. Just like smoking one cigarette won't give the smoker cancer.

      But I think the link is there. Repeatedly acting out realistic scenes of violence against realistic people must desensitize someone to violence, and that cannot be a good thing.

      In my town we've just had our another case of a bunch of teenagers beating another student to death. I hate to sound like an old man, but what's going on here? "Back in my day", when you kicked the shit out of someone you didn't like in school, you would stop kicking once the person was lying down and not getting back up. Yes, people did get beaten on for having the wrong skin colour or for being in the wrong clique, but they didn't die as a result of the beatings.

      I can't be certain why violence by kids is so much more serious now, but I think video games are at least part of the problem. Because they are interactive, they condition you to act out to harm others and that makes them a large part of the problem.

      I think the games can be improved without radically changing them. The martial arts games could have a rule that if you hit your opponent while s/he was down, you forfeit the game. The game should be just as challenging and fun, but it would encourage a somewhat more sportsman-like attitude than the current "kick them until they stop moving" attitude.

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    7. Re:Oh man.... by RevAaron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obviously playing a video games does not guarantee the player will become homicidal. Just like smoking one cigarette won't give the smoker cancer.

      That's the worst attempt at an analogy. Ever. It would've been more accurate to say that "Obviously playing a video games [sic] does not guarantee the player will become homicidal. Just like seeing someone smoke on TV won't make you become a smoker yourself."

      Yes, people did get beaten on for having the wrong skin colour or for being in the wrong clique, but they didn't die as a result of the beatings.

      Bullshit. It isn't the kids that have changed, rather the media reporting on those kids.

      There is an order of magnitude more coverage on this kind of stuff these days. Perhaps even more. The sensationalist media of today has no qualms about letting everyone in the world know about some poor kid who got beat to death after school. Before, this sort of thing was often kept hush; who wants everyone in the world to know that your child, your sibling, your friend, a fellow community member did such a thing?

      You may not have killed anyone, and you may not know anyone who died as a result of getting their asses kicked back then, but it certainly doesn't mean it's never happened. I don't know anyone who has beat someone to the point they were even on the ground- but that doesn't prove people don't get their lives beat out of them sometimes.

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    8. Re:Oh man.... by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      There's a difference between being "pro gun," and "anti gun control."

      Of of them sounds like you'd even encourage firearm usage, the other one sounds like you actually care about civil liberties.

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
    9. Re:Oh man.... by the_mad_poster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And the ultimate nullifier to this pointless, tired argument:

      Prove it.

      One incident every now and then does not prove anything. More people pull guns outside of nightclubs than video game tournaments. Maybe nightclubs are the cause of all the world's ills? Heck, while we're jumping to conclusions with absolutely no evidence, maybe DRIVING is the cause of increased violence? I've heard of lots of incidents where drivers pulled guns and other weapons on fellow motorists. A guy here at work just went to jail because he chased some guy down and stabbed him half a dozen times for honking a horn. Maybe car horns are the cause of all the world's ills?

      Until credible studies appear that consumers of violent media have a statistically higher tendency to violence than the rest of society, you and all the "parent" and "family" groups are just blowing smoke and looking for convenient scapegoats for what is more easily attributed to failed parenting. All the studies so far are biased in one direction of the other, so the net result is that the entire thing is unknown. If you want to form a hypothesis based on empirical evidence and invesitgate, that's fine, but don't try to treat it like a theory until you've got proof. That's exactly what you're doing and what parent and family groups do, and that's exactly why I treat it like the wash it is. I'm willing to consider the possibility that you and the groups are right, but don't start saying you actually are until you have some evidence to back it up.

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    10. Re:Oh man.... by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't believe the guy who went and got the gun is evidence that FPS games encourage violence.

      (A pro gun society is what has led to that in his case.)

      So you don't believe one unprovable fallacy, but you believe another?

      I find it more plausible that this person has mental problems, is immature, is uneducated, was under the influence of drugs, etc.

      --
      Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
    11. Re:Oh man.... by Rimbo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Look, if I play D&D, does that mean I'm going to get involved in the occult? Well, I haven't yet. But if I already were involved in the occult, D&D would have a special attraction for me.

      If I listen to Heavy Metal, will I start to worship Satan? Hardly. But Satanists who listen to music are probably not going to be listening to Amy Grant now, are they?

      Now if I am a violent person with a substantial gun collection, which video game do you think I'm going to play?

      a. Pikmin
      b. Yoshi's Island
      c. Counter Strike
      d. Bejeweled

      I think it's more accurate to say that the correlation between violence and violent TV programs/violent video games/violence in movies is that violent people are going to be more attracted to those forms of entertainment than other forms. A person who plays Quake isn't a problem; a person who ONLY plays games that lets him shoot people in nasty ways may have an issue.

      I would think that this is obvious.

  2. The American Response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Clearly the problem is the game, which makes people violent. Not in the fact that this particular lunatic owns, and is ready to point a gun at somebody's head.

    1. Re:The American Response by Dr.+Bent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not in the fact that this particular lunatic owns, and is ready to point a gun at somebody's head.

      So if he has just smashed his head in with a baseball bat, that would be better? Or perhaps the problem is that things that can be used to kill (cars, rat poison, blenders, etc.) can be bought by anyone in the US, including lunatics and...heaven forbid...gamers.

      All types of political groups will try to spin this story to shift blame to whatever it is they're trying to ban. Video games, guns, violent movies, trench coats, whatever. The fact of the matter is that the blame lies with one and only one person...the idiot who decided to use a gun to win an argument.

    2. Re:The American Response by AtaruMoroboshi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...you can't just hold a bat to someone's head and have a slight change in finger pressure kill them.

    3. Re:The American Response by thelexx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the game did not cause the fool to lose it, please explain to me exactly how a gun did. Personal responsibility can't be legislated into people. And I resent the implication that because SOME people are emotional retards who cannot handle the responsibility of owning a firearm, NOBODY should be allowed to. Australia disarmed their population, check out their crime stats before and after. (Here's a start: http://www.ssaa.org.au/buybackindex.html)

      Have some quotes to think on:

      "Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -St. Augustine

      "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -The Dalai Lama, (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)

      "......Certainly, the intrinsic value of life and the duty to love oneself no less than others are the basis of a true right to self-defense ... legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life, the common good of the family or of the State. Unfortunately, it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose actions brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason." -Pope John Paul II, Encyclical Letter from 1995, EVANGELIUM VITAE

      "When the strong man fully armed guardeth his own court, his goods are in peace." -Jesus Christ [Luke 11:21.6]

      "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." -Jesus Christ [Luke 22:36]

      "Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence." -Mohatma Gandhi

      --
      "Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
    4. Re:The American Response by StocDred · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Figures supplied by the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia may not be the most unbiased source of information on gun control.

      Even if we do accept those numbers as true, the number of murders pre-gun buyback (99 in 1996) is still more than the number of murders in the most recent year shown (49 in 2001). Why isn't that shown to be a happy side effect of the buyback program?

      Answer: because it's all in how you spin it. One little table and a bunch of out-of-context quotes do not an argument make.

      And, at the risk of clouding all further rational discussion, do you really think that Jesus (if he wasn't fictional) had any notion of how powerful the weapons of the future would be? The difference between a sword and a gun is incredible, which makes quotes dealing with swords-and-violence not exactly comparable to the modern situation of guns-and-violence. Heck, our founding fathers couldn't even fathom the high-powered, super-accurate, full-automatic weapons of today.

    5. Re:The American Response by the_mad_poster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're out of your mind. First of all, even if you get cut, as long as you're not stupid enough to expose tender areas (like... don't block stabbing motions with your stomach and slashing motions with your wrist...), you have a much better shot at survival than if someone puts a bullet between your eyes.

      Second, deflecting a shot from a bat coming in at your head with your arm, though I'm sure it's exceptionally painful, isn't even likely to break a significant bone, much less cause any serious injury. Hell, the human skull is obnoxiously hard. It probably wouldn't even crack it on the first swing. I took a baseball bat to the side of the head once at full swing (by accident - guy taking practice swings). Fucking thing sent me sprawling in the dirt, made me throw up, and I couldn't see for a few minutes (but, amazingly, no concussion), but it didn't do any serious damage.

      Third, I'm willing to bet I'm a pretty speedy guy if someone is looking to cut my throat or bash my skull in. I'm also willing to bet that, no matter how speedy I am, I can't outrun a bullet if someone is looking to take a headshot at me.

      Note, however, I'm not arguing a personal position on guns. Just saying I'd much rather face a guy with a sharp or blunt object than a .44

      --
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  3. Definately NOT a Surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sure this will get modded to troll immediately, since I'm saying something most /.ers don't want to hear, but this is really something to be expected.

    People sit and spend days and days playing games like this where they learn to shoot at almost anything that might be a threat. Just like an athlete that practices for years to hone their reflexes so they don't have to think about actions, but just do -- or like a musician that practices for years so their skills are sharp -- gamers teach themselves to solve problems with violence and to use weapons quickly and easily.

    So it's no wonder one of them decides that's the best way to solve their problem and that the others around actually egg him on to shot another human being.

    People practice basketball for years to develop skills and be able to react without thinking. Musicians practice for years to learn how to use their instruments without having to think about what they do. In both cases, people are training their neurons by repeated action. And somehow we don't think practicing using a gun day after day doesn't do the same thing?

    Get real. Violence leads to more violence, even if it starts with fantasy violence.

    1. Re:Definately NOT a Surprise by kaellinn18 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Soldiers practice using weapons everyday so they can solve problems with violence, yet our streets aren't overrun with platoons of soldiers shooting civilians. It's used as a last resort. Don't be stupid.

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    2. Re:Definately NOT a Surprise by Rewtie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You don't have to play video games to be a 'tard who points a gun at someone's head. What about the team mates encouraging him? That's the more worrisome part to me. Any fool can shoot someone.

      --
      Ever Onward, Forward Bound
    3. Re:Definately NOT a Surprise by Guppy06 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "What about the team mates encouraging him? That's the more worrisome part to me."

      Not much different from your typical high school students egging on a fistfight. Of course, nobody bothered to take notice of situations like this until students started to point the guns at each other instead of themselves.

    4. Re:Definately NOT a Surprise by obsid1an · · Score: 3, Interesting
      So with that logic, I think I will go tryout for the Green Bay Packers because I rule at Madden 2004.

      Seriously dude, get real. You've obviously never played any sort of FPS type of game so you don't understand that it's not about the shooting. That part gets old soon. It is about the people. It's about using teamwork to try to accomplish your goal. It's about winning. The majority of gamers are in clans because of that. Gaming is not about just about shooting people, it's much like any other team game.

      Also, look at other sports like hockey, baseball, football, hell pretty much any. There are far more injuries in those games due to fights between players than there ever has been with gaming.

      This incident while trajic, hardly reflects gaming as a whole. There are 1000s of lans happening both big and small, and every single one I have been to has been filled with tons of great and non-homocidal people. I can't say that about the baseball games I have seen.

  4. Scapel please... by gregoryj · · Score: 5, Funny

    Another reason for forced sterilization... oh wait, these guys were already at a gaming convention.

  5. The CS Crowd by hattmoward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Personally -- my opinion, not stated as fact -- I don't really like the people who play CS in general these days. They are complete assholes, they steal my shit when I'm hosting/visiting a LAN party, and are generally very violent, aggressive, and standoffish. There are some good players out there, but they're getting sparse. Of course, this is slashdot, and my post is +5, Obvious... We certainly have our share of idiots here! :) It seems to happen to online communities as more people concentrate in them... :/ Sad, really. BTW, has anyone seen those yoda doll trolls? So insane, they're completely hilarious... frickin morons! :)

  6. Come On.... by Sangloth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This could just as easily have been a Football game, it just wouldn't have garnered this attention. I remember 3 years ago they pre-emptively tear gassed students at the CU - CSU football game to prevent a riot. When the police were asked for justification, they cited the riots that had happened every year for the previous 5 years.
    For that matter, we tend to have some kind of riot whenever the Av's Hockey team loses.

    The actions of a single individual don't define a group.

    Sangloth
    I'd appreciate any comment with a logical basis...it doesn't even have to agree with me.

  7. Games DON'T Cause Violence! by MBCook · · Score: 5, Funny
    This proves it! Once and for all! Videogames DON'T cause violence...

    It's the pavement!

    Nothing happened untill they went OUTSIDE, to the PARKING LOT, which has PAVEMENT! Let's look at the facts. Nearly EVERY drive-by shooting ever has been within 5 feet of pavement. Most gang violence in urban areas is near pavement!

    It's time to do something about this pavement industry that's causing EPIDEMICS of violence in this country. Back in revolutionary times (when there was no pavement) things like drive-by shootings and gang violence didn't happen! I defy someone to find a whole in my logic!

    Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!

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  8. RTFA by Prien715 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the article:
    The police do have the names of the players and teams associated with the actions and we assume that this will reach a quick conclusion. I can tell everyone that the person that pulled the gun was not part of the BZ team, rather, friends of a certain member of that team.

    I live in a country where people have riots and burn cars because their basketball team loses. Heck, sometimes when their team wins. No one ever blames the violence on basketball. Some nutcase friend of player pulls a gun and it's counter-strike's fault?

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    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
  9. pass me a bat... by jermyjerm · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'd like to kick the ass of that guy and all his idiot friends who egged him on!

    Wait, that wouldn't help solve the problem of gaming being related to violence, would it?

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  10. Causation vs. Correlation by molafson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It is impossible to say whether or not video games promote violent behavior. I do not believe that they do, but I have no evidence to support this believe.

    In any case, what we *can* say with certainty is that a kind of aggressive/macho/anti-social culture does develop around certain online games. You have only to play these games to notice the angry, sociopathic tendencies of many of their participants (e.g. the rampant cheating, trash talking, causing other nuisances, etc.).

    Whether or not the game itself (CS) promotes this kind of behavior is certainly an unresolved question. At the very least, I think we can agree (as another poster pointed out) that certain games attract an element of player who is already disposed toward bad behavior. I do my best to avoid these games.

  11. "Family" groups by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Actually, I thought the CXG guy came across as really touchingly fatherly -- it reminded me of the father-and-son team who tried to help Homer Simpson -- which probably means I should spend more time interacting with my own family and less time watching TV.

    The real Grade A morons here, by the way, have to be the teammates encouraging the other Grade A moron with the gun to fire...

    --
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  12. Stuff that doesn't matter by barrettlight50 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have rtfa and the interview and the submission here and I can't find any evidence that the playing of the game (Counterstrike) caused the gun to be used violently. There was a gun and violence and a game of Counterstrike, so what? Was the gun toting individual affected by playing Counterstrike? Were his actions justified? It's not likely, but we're not given enough information to decide for sure. What about the actual team members that encouraged the associate to shoot? Why didn't they just grab their friends gun and do it themselves if they were so demented from hours of Counterstrike. There is also something about the press release that doesn't add up. The only reason I could think to get to work immediately on such a carefully crafted announcement would be to preempt some type of legal action by either party, but the lack of specific details within it raises some suspicion here. I would be interested to know what action Hill Jr took to 'resolve the matter and stop the fighting'. Maybe neglect in developing any conventional social skills landed him in water over his head? I know I can organise a decent gaming session without any real violence breaking out. Why does trouble seem to follow Jr around? Who's to know? Sr. makes some general speculations about what causes these outbursts. He suggests yep it's our fault, it's the games fault, the empathy of the community is to blame. Not much of a defence... And why defend the gaming community? Because the media told you so? No thanks.

    Marylin Manson said, 'keep everyone afraid, and they'll consume.' Is Mr. Hill milking a bit of free advertising? Would guards and metal detectors repel the gaming masses. Hardly! I wish I could make sense of mindless acts of violence but this story does nothing to help me do so. I love the idea of guns as much as the next FPS gamer, but I could live a lifetime and not own one, let alone present it at someone. There are an estimated 2.5 million plus people that play Counterstrike worldwide - and one of them gets a gun pulled on him by another? Even if this is what happened, the only reason I care, is to chuckle at the over-reaction to it by the gaming community.

  13. You're missing entirely the meaning. by Inoshiro · · Score: 4, Informative

    Gandhi never advocated violence. Many people/reporters/etc would try and give him theoretical situations where he would be "forced" to choose a violent course. The quote was, "Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence."

    And if you bother to read the history of where this statement originates, the next thing he said was, "But I believe that nonviolence is infinitely superior to violence, forgiveness is more manly than punishment. Forgiveness adorns a soldier...But abstinence is forgiveness only when there is the power to punish; it is meaningless when it pretends to proceed from a helpless creature....
    But I do not believe India to be helpless....I do not believe myself to be a helpless creature....Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will.
    We do want to drive out the best in the man, but we do not want on that account to emasculate him. And in the process of finding his own status, the beast in him is bound now and again to put up his ugly appearance.
    The world is not entirely governed by logic. Life itself involves some kind of violence and we have to choose the path of least violence.    "

    Go read for yourself his philosophy.

    If you are busy trying to argue wether people cane or can't be more or less right, then you've missed why I pointed out that quote which was taken out of context.

    --
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  14. The frightening nature of CS by Phantasmo · · Score: 3, Funny

    Police were particularly concerned because, at a Counter-Stike tournament held last month, ten young men were shot... in the head... with one bullet... through five brick walls.

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    The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience