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Real Gun Pulled At Counter-Strike Tournament
Audiovore writes "Got Frag? has a press release and interview with the president of Cyber X Gaming about an event which took place after a Counter-Strike LAN gaming qualifier in Los Angeles at the weekend. Apparently, two guys from separate teams got in a fight outside, and when staff tried to break it up one of the participants went to his car, got a gun, and pointed it at the head of a staff member (who happened to be the son of the CXG president.) His team-mates then 'encouraged the person with the gun to fire', although the situation was then calmed down and the remainder of the event was cancelled."
Now this is guaranteed be used as ammo (bad pun) for all kinds of 'family' and 'parent' groups all over the place.
Clearly the problem is the game, which makes people violent. Not in the fact that this particular lunatic owns, and is ready to point a gun at somebody's head.
I'm sure this will get modded to troll immediately, since I'm saying something most /.ers don't want to hear, but this is really something to be expected.
People sit and spend days and days playing games like this where they learn to shoot at almost anything that might be a threat. Just like an athlete that practices for years to hone their reflexes so they don't have to think about actions, but just do -- or like a musician that practices for years so their skills are sharp -- gamers teach themselves to solve problems with violence and to use weapons quickly and easily.
So it's no wonder one of them decides that's the best way to solve their problem and that the others around actually egg him on to shot another human being.
People practice basketball for years to develop skills and be able to react without thinking. Musicians practice for years to learn how to use their instruments without having to think about what they do. In both cases, people are training their neurons by repeated action. And somehow we don't think practicing using a gun day after day doesn't do the same thing?
Get real. Violence leads to more violence, even if it starts with fantasy violence.
Another reason for forced sterilization... oh wait, these guys were already at a gaming convention.
Personally -- my opinion, not stated as fact -- I don't really like the people who play CS in general these days. They are complete assholes, they steal my shit when I'm hosting/visiting a LAN party, and are generally very violent, aggressive, and standoffish. There are some good players out there, but they're getting sparse. Of course, this is slashdot, and my post is +5, Obvious... We certainly have our share of idiots here! :) It seems to happen to online communities as more people concentrate in them... :/ Sad, really. BTW, has anyone seen those yoda doll trolls? So insane, they're completely hilarious... frickin morons! :)
This could just as easily have been a Football game, it just wouldn't have garnered this attention. I remember 3 years ago they pre-emptively tear gassed students at the CU - CSU football game to prevent a riot. When the police were asked for justification, they cited the riots that had happened every year for the previous 5 years.
For that matter, we tend to have some kind of riot whenever the Av's Hockey team loses.
The actions of a single individual don't define a group.
Sangloth
I'd appreciate any comment with a logical basis...it doesn't even have to agree with me.
I guess I am not Joe sixpack. I will admit this is becoming more common-place but I wouldnt say this is ordinary by any means. We didnt all of a sudden have a gun problem. Right to bear arms has been around since day 1. I wonder how many people died during a croquet game gone bad? The problem lies elsewhere. Maybe its all those slacker parents... who knows. Bowling for Columbine... Yes, half a brain would be necessary.
It's the pavement!
Nothing happened untill they went OUTSIDE, to the PARKING LOT, which has PAVEMENT! Let's look at the facts. Nearly EVERY drive-by shooting ever has been within 5 feet of pavement. Most gang violence in urban areas is near pavement!
It's time to do something about this pavement industry that's causing EPIDEMICS of violence in this country. Back in revolutionary times (when there was no pavement) things like drive-by shootings and gang violence didn't happen! I defy someone to find a whole in my logic!
Won't someone PLEASE think of the children!
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
From the article:
The police do have the names of the players and teams associated with the actions and we assume that this will reach a quick conclusion. I can tell everyone that the person that pulled the gun was not part of the BZ team, rather, friends of a certain member of that team.
I live in a country where people have riots and burn cars because their basketball team loses. Heck, sometimes when their team wins. No one ever blames the violence on basketball. Some nutcase friend of player pulls a gun and it's counter-strike's fault?
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
This is scary in a way that someone felt the need to go and actually SHOOT someone from an opposing team outside of the building. But then I guess I shouldn't be suprised, it IS Los Angeles after all, and that city is well known for high crime and gun nuts.
Perhaps the most disturbing thing of all is that the guys buddies were encouraging him to shoot.
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
To go BACK to his car, pull out a (most likely) LOADED gun he had LOADED beforehand and then go BACK to the guy who had pissed him off. He should be a canidate for the electric chair. Not wanting a gibsonesque future but he might not have killed someone already but he sure as hell would have with that MO.
I'd like to kick the ass of that guy and all his idiot friends who egged him on!
Wait, that wouldn't help solve the problem of gaming being related to violence, would it?
--- "Yeah, I'm a bit stressed out. I have a research paper due tomorrow and it has to be +5, Insightful."
...at least he didn't shoot the guy. I mean, if videogames make you want to kill people, wouldn't this guy just have come back from his car shooting first and asking questions later?
Of course, it could also be that he just didn't want to lose points for shooting civilians.
"who needs courage, when you've got a gun?"
how weak, to pull a gun on someone, not to mention an unarmed someone. could he not win the arguement any other way? was his ego so easily bruised? how weak.
It is impossible to say whether or not video games promote violent behavior. I do not believe that they do, but I have no evidence to support this believe.
In any case, what we *can* say with certainty is that a kind of aggressive/macho/anti-social culture does develop around certain online games. You have only to play these games to notice the angry, sociopathic tendencies of many of their participants (e.g. the rampant cheating, trash talking, causing other nuisances, etc.).
Whether or not the game itself (CS) promotes this kind of behavior is certainly an unresolved question. At the very least, I think we can agree (as another poster pointed out) that certain games attract an element of player who is already disposed toward bad behavior. I do my best to avoid these games.
(who happened to be the son of the CXG president.)
... upon learning of the disturbance Chris Hill of CXG, and my son, was asked to try and resolve the matter and stop the fighting ...
... placed it to the head of Chris Hill
Note to story editor, it wasn't his son, that's not what the release says:
09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
The real Grade A morons here, by the way, have to be the teammates encouraging the other Grade A moron with the gun to fire...
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
He's been practicing twitching, and is obviously very good at it if he spends the time to go to such an event. Just got done turning his nervous system over to the act-then think mode, with all the hormones from the activity itself, with the additional stress of some percieved inequity and resulting REAL fight. He goes to his car, and escalates things right to the cliff by commiting a violent felony from which there is no longer a way to escape without consequences. Then there is the peer pressure, from people he knows, likes, and probably respects and trusts more than most!
He still doesn't shoot!?
Everything but that small voice inside his head was screaming for a very different outcome. In many ways it isn't a surprise; it's a bonafide wonder the small voice won out.
You're opinion is accurate, short, and to the point...well done (you helped change my opinion).
Hey, way to generalize man... I manage a coffee shop and have been a very gentle person most of my life. (I was kinda mean to my younger brother until around 17 when I realized how lame it was.)
I resent your comments and if I ever see you in person I'm gonna take a claw hammer and...
I mean... have a nice day!
"...and pointed it at the head of a staff member"
So... he was obviously using an aimbot.
""Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence." -Mohatma Gandhi"
Violence is cowardice. Cowardice is beating up people who are merely disagreeing. Cowardice is pulling a gun on someone because you disagree.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Get a clue. I have lived in the states my whole life(30 years), and have NEVER seen a gun pulled in a violent maner.
(appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Synchronized swiming.
Rythmic gymnatics.
Cricket.
Polo.
Lumberjack games.
Bobsleding
Luge
Cross country skiing
speedwalking
So what? This sort of behaviour is common in the States, nothing new to see here, move along now.
No this behaviour is bot common. That's why it's considered news.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
Then only the idoits and criminals (wait.. whats the difference...) have guns.
by adopting a kid and feedin him/her/it nonstop Elmer Fudd cartoons instead of video games or other forms of entertainment i can end up having a bunny-hating shotgun-wielding kid of my very own.. hopefully with a similar speech impediment.
great theory.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
No this behaviour is bot common.
I can't believe you take the oppurtunity to make derogatory comments against Electronic Americans. It is because of people like you that anti-semiticism still exists. How would you feel if I say, "No, this behaviour is white common" or (judging by your, ah, behaviour) "No, this behaviour is Euro common"?
Get a life; Electronic Americans are also people like us!
Man I need to lay off the CS.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Actually, I only know two people who own guns. One is a guard at Rikers Island, and the other is NYPD. Neither, to my knowledge, has had need to use their firearms, but would only use their firearms in the defense of themselves or innocent bystanders.
While these incidents are painfully common in the US, they're not everyday occurences. Many of us are non-violent people. Admitedly, we're very annoying people, though, which makes it a wonder you don't hear about more violence.
But you've already seen Bowling for Columbine. You know that these incidents are less common than the US media makes them out to be. In the NYC area we see a few reports of violent acts on the news every night, but in a metro area of several million people, the odds are pretty good that somebody's gonna fly off the handle every day. Even if this violence is a on-in-a-million shot, we're still guaranteed to see it every day at those odds.
-=-=-=-=-=
I'd rather be flamed than ignored.
Some day there will be a great reckoning, where all the trolls who post anonymously to avoid the karmic consequences are smitten upon the landscape.
Their women will be slaughtered and their sheep raped.
no thanks
I have rtfa and the interview and the submission here and I can't find any evidence that the playing of the game (Counterstrike) caused the gun to be used violently. There was a gun and violence and a game of Counterstrike, so what? Was the gun toting individual affected by playing Counterstrike? Were his actions justified? It's not likely, but we're not given enough information to decide for sure. What about the actual team members that encouraged the associate to shoot? Why didn't they just grab their friends gun and do it themselves if they were so demented from hours of Counterstrike. There is also something about the press release that doesn't add up. The only reason I could think to get to work immediately on such a carefully crafted announcement would be to preempt some type of legal action by either party, but the lack of specific details within it raises some suspicion here. I would be interested to know what action Hill Jr took to 'resolve the matter and stop the fighting'. Maybe neglect in developing any conventional social skills landed him in water over his head? I know I can organise a decent gaming session without any real violence breaking out. Why does trouble seem to follow Jr around? Who's to know? Sr. makes some general speculations about what causes these outbursts. He suggests yep it's our fault, it's the games fault, the empathy of the community is to blame. Not much of a defence... And why defend the gaming community? Because the media told you so? No thanks.
Marylin Manson said, 'keep everyone afraid, and they'll consume.' Is Mr. Hill milking a bit of free advertising? Would guards and metal detectors repel the gaming masses. Hardly! I wish I could make sense of mindless acts of violence but this story does nothing to help me do so. I love the idea of guns as much as the next FPS gamer, but I could live a lifetime and not own one, let alone present it at someone. There are an estimated 2.5 million plus people that play Counterstrike worldwide - and one of them gets a gun pulled on him by another? Even if this is what happened, the only reason I care, is to chuckle at the over-reaction to it by the gaming community.
However to the rest of the world Americans do sort of come off looking like gun waiving maniacs. Perhaps it's just a convenient stereotype that you media constantly reinforces.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Why do you go to a computer gaming contest (of any sort) with a gun in your car?
How does someone who is obviously not the sort that should have a firearm get a firearm? They get the firearm because the screening processes used when purchasing a firearm in the US are ineffective.
No wonder other people (Non-Gamers) get touchy about computer violence, when people can go out and purchase these things and indulge their late night fantasies.
Or even more damning: aggravating a already dangerous and volatile situation by encouraging this guy to commit murder! Hopefully some police action was taken against all the people involved.
Does violent gaming increase violence? Last week I would have said "I don't know" This week I say "In an already violent culture, like the American culture perhaps it does"
And as far as all of people who say that violent gaming does not promote violence, I suggest that you help prove your words and make sure that you and you friends are still here in the real world and not letting your fantasies go to far, rather than encouraging one an other in violent antisocial fantasies.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Yes, but has your seeing eye dog?
I've had this sig for three days.
Off topic.
"...less common than the US media makes them out to be."
I don't think the media makes violence out to be more common than it is (well, it probably depends on your definitions). Just by virtue of seeing violence on the news - from possibility the entire world - might make an individual think violence happens more often than not, but it not as if the media evilly plans it like that. Most things just aren't news.
Anyway, I just wanted to try and take any misplaced blame on the media away.
Please, do you offer lessons? I am willing to be an unpaid apprentice to learn the wisdom of your art. My life would be complete if I could just die with your wit on my tongue and your rhetorical skills in my mind -- truly, I should be ready to do intellectual battle with the Deity himself after drinking at the fount of your wisdom.
BTW, i'm not the original poster that you responded to, but you're quite welcome to foe me if you'd like.
Gandhi never advocated violence. Many people/reporters/etc would try and give him theoretical situations where he would be "forced" to choose a violent course. The quote was, "Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence."
And if you bother to read the history of where this statement originates, the next thing he said was, "But I believe that nonviolence is infinitely superior to violence, forgiveness is more manly than punishment. Forgiveness adorns a soldier...But abstinence is forgiveness only when there is the power to punish; it is meaningless when it pretends to proceed from a helpless creature....
But I do not believe India to be helpless....I do not believe myself to be a helpless creature....Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will.
We do want to drive out the best in the man, but we do not want on that account to emasculate him. And in the process of finding his own status, the beast in him is bound now and again to put up his ugly appearance.
The world is not entirely governed by logic. Life itself involves some kind of violence and we have to choose the path of least violence."
Go read for yourself his philosophy.
If you are busy trying to argue wether people cane or can't be more or less right, then you've missed why I pointed out that quote which was taken out of context.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
People practice basketball for years to develop skills and be able to react without thinking. Musicians practice for years to learn how to use their instruments without having to think about what they do. In both cases, people are training their neurons by repeated action. And somehow we don't think practicing using a gun day after day doesn't do the same thing? Get real. Violence leads to more violence, even if it starts with fantasy violence.
I don't buy it. By your argument:
* Playing football regularly would teach people to slam people into the ground when they get angry with them. I don't see many marketing managers running out and doing so, despite the fact that football is wildly popular with the American male.
* SimCity should be banned because it promotes a callousness about evicting people from their houses.
* Martial arts, generally considered a healthy activity and good for discipline and dedication, should *definitely* be banned. Martial arts does *nothing* but try to teach you to respond to violence on reflex alone.
* Oregon Trail (old video game in which you play a pioneer traveling to Oregon) should be banned -- you shoot as a major portion of the game.
I understand why your argument is alluring, but there are an awful lot of holes in trying to apply it to real life.
May we never see th
it does have some humour in it.
-- Mod me down. I am not a karma tart. ffs,gag
Police were particularly concerned because, at a Counter-Stike tournament held last month, ten young men were shot... in the head... with one bullet... through five brick walls.
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
All comments seem to be about how the game shouldn't be blamed, but I don't see anyone blaming the game (yet)...
welcome to LA, have a nice day.
So what? This sort of behaviour is common in the States
That doesn't make it right.
qntm.org
Violent crime is down in the U.S. in the last several years. Very few people have ever even seen a gun pulled in Real Life (but for the record, a growning number of responsible people are carrying in the U.S., ready, willing and able to use their gun in self defense. As it should be.).
As for "Bolwing for Columbine" being a documentary -- it's no more a documentary than Armegeddon was a documentary about Bruce Willis saving us from death by asteroid. It was presented as a documentary, it is flogged by the press and other liberals as a documentary, but a documentary doesn't take clips of speach from over a period of several years, paste them together to give the message you want (completely different than the original message of the speaker) and present it as a speach that actually happened.
This was not a reflex. The guy didn't just pull the gun out of his pants - he went back to his car, got the gun, and returned to the scene of the fight. That's not a reflex - that's making and executing a plan.
Corporate Jenga: You take a blockhead from the bottom and you put him on top...
I've played Pac-Man all my life.
Now here I am big and fat from eating way too much. And I'm still stuck in this dammed maze.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Counter-strike seems to attract the gangstas.
LA asian gangs in this example.
Prove it.
If you're going to meet my emotional demands and annecdotal evidence with things like reason and a call for a statistical basis, I guess you "Just don't get it".
It's people like you with your dispassionate "Wait and see" attitudes that are part of the problem. When you decide to follow your heart instead of your head, and be part of the solution, we'll be here. Until then, just know that you're down there and there is nothing you can do about it.
Everyone is debating whether Counter Strike is making people violent or not.
I'd think gun ownership itself would be something to look at, maybe.
People get carried away. Not having guns around is a good way to keep things from getting serious.
I just don't understand why people want to own machines for killing other people. Even if a side-effect of the machines is that they frighten other people.
Jag pratar lite svenska.
Yeah, I've lived in a major US city for over six years now, and I've never seen a gun outside of "sports" shops. I've walked through "the hood", wandered Chinatown at night, traveled by public transit everywhere, and I've still not seen a single gun. I do know someone who was mugged, and I heard about an armed robbery at a store a few blocks from our house and saw the police cars, but that stuff happens in the UK too.
My family came over to visit, and were amazed to discover that kids of various races played peacefully on the street, running in and out of the unlocked houses. As "Bowling For Columbine" explains, the media paints a completely distorted view of America. Sure, NYC has 8x the per capita murder rate of London, but that still only means 17 murders per 100,000 people. Or to look at it another way, you could live there your whole life and only have a 1% chance of being murdered--and remember that most murders are committed by people known to the victim, so the chances of some random person shooting you are even lower than that.
I volunteered at a local public school. UK readers may be surprised to hear that there were no bars on the windows, no metal detectors, and none of the kids tried to sell me crack or knife me.
The funny thing is that "Bowling For Columbine" IS NOT ANTI-GUN. Yes, it takes the NRA to task for being grossly insensitive, but its main conclusion is that it's the MEDIA that's mostly at fault in perpetuating the culture of violence. Sheesh, you'd think the gun nuts would have enough brain cells to follow the movie and work out that it supports their position, but no, they assume that any documentary which criticizes their beloved NRA must be anti-gun Commie propaganda.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
A hostage has been rescued.
Counter-Terrorists win!
A documentary does use a series of clips and interviews pasted together in a way to show a point of view. However, that's not what BfC does. It has a "speach" supposedly given by Chuck Heston. It is a speach he never gave. It is instead bits and pieces of other speaches, taken out of context, pasted together and presented as if it were an actual speach he gave.
So, one of two things is true: BfC is fradulent or it is intended to be a fictional story. Perhaps about real people, groups and ideas, but fictional. Unforch, "documentary" implies non-fiction (not non-biased, mind you), and BfC is being passed of as a documentary, ergo it is fraudulent. It may resonate with your fear of guns, but just because it happens to match your world view doesn't make it true.
And I was designing a new feature for the sotware I write for a living, not cleaning guns. My guns are clean and put away safely and have been for some time, as work has kept me busy, so I've not had time to get to the range. Thanks for your concern, though. Quite touching.
I believe in gun control. I believe all adult citizens should learn how to control a gun.
Electronic Americans are also people like us!
And so are little wooden Italian-Americans, right?
idoits and criminals (wait.. whats the difference...)
So do you claim all criminals are idiots? Say I copy a book first published in 1923, written by an author who died in 1934. Does that make me an idiot? Say I watch a DVD on Linux. Does that make me an idiot?
Was he packing the D.Eagle or the SIG?
if you take games this seriously, theres something that wrong with you
Most clannie gamers see FPS games as a social outlet, so it's about social status plus prize money. Most people take social status and money pretty seriously.
The guy that pulled the gun at the CS tournament is a coward though. If you have to resort to violence at least be a man and fight with your hands. A gun is a cowards way out.
;-)
in similar terms, but they're pretty different - autonomically speaking. the point of the practice is to have an automatic reaction - you start playing a particular piece on the piano and the mechanics are automatic, so that the player can focus on the emotion of the piece. Martial arts is the same way, someone attacks you like this, than your body does this without thought, so that you can be figuring out what to do next... very different from the mechanics of keyboard strokes and mouse twitches translating into "go to car, get real gun (very different UI), pull trigger). and i think people are right to realize that the scariest part of this story is the "friends" aspect.
Did you ever think that maybe, to sociopaths to a greater degree than the world at large, online shooters are more attractive?
I play Return to Castle Wolfenstein online and its team environment usually has no real racist or socially inept behavior but once in a while a griefer signs on and team kills like crazy. I think they're used to QUAKE or something.
What I do is note which servers for UT2003 and RTCW actively kick/ban griefers and asswipes. I make them favorites and return to those servers over and over.
I have never used terms like OWNED and PWNED. I stay with the King's English. It's more polite.
However, to back up your original assertion, I am an unsympathetic person in general. I don't really care a whole bunch about the plight of american poverty (I have seen real poverty in Haiti, Mexico and the Phillipines, thank you very much). So maybe I'm an asshole. I don't care about that either.
Nobody f*cks with the Jesus!!!