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SCO Investor Changing the Deal

Kurt Wall writes "According to this story, recent SCO investor Royal Bank of Canada appears to be changing its tune. RBC, along with BayStar Capital, invested $50 million in SCO, but now has changed the deal to give it veto power over the payment of the 20% contingency fees SCO's IP lawyers will get. As to the wisdom of the investment itself, an RBC spokesman would only say that the 'investment in SCO is passive, made to hedge an economic exposure resulting from client transactions.' Such as the SCO case collapsing, perhaps?"

94 of 392 comments (clear)

  1. obligatory Star Wars reference by jvbunte · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm sure SCO's lawyers are going to be upset about this.

    SCO's lawyers: "That wasn't part of the bargain!"

    RBC: "We're altering the deal, pray we do not alter it further..."

    --
    I think we'd all enjoy a nice cold beverage. -David Letterman
    1. Re:obligatory Star Wars reference by BabyDave · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you think that's good, just wait until next week, when the Vice President of RBC will reveal that he's the father of Darl Mcbride, shortly after slicing his hand off.

      Actually, let's not pursue this analogy any further, in case SCO somehow manage to destroy the Death Star^W^WIBM ...

    2. Re:obligatory Star Wars reference by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Informative
      SCO was originally sayig that Boies would get 1 million in cash, and 9 million in stock stuff

      That the investors have forced SCO and Boies to agree to changing the deal might indicate that they (the investors) either:

      1. learned something that gave them the leverage needed to force/blackmail SCO et al to accept the changes
      2. threatened SCO et al with a lawsuit to recover their investment because they were misled as to where the money was ultimately going
      Either way, not good news for SCO and Boies, and it explains the delay in their filings.
    3. Re:obligatory Star Wars reference by beacher · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah.. They should have seen it coming... It's not as if Emporer Palpatine's image is on the Canadian 5 dollar bill....

    4. Re:obligatory Star Wars reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      "in case SCO somehow manage to destroy the Death Star^W^WIBM ..."

      SCO = Alderon

    5. Re:obligatory Star Wars reference by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, let's not pursue this analogy any further, in case SCO somehow manage to destroy the Death Star^W^WIBM ...

      IBM is "Big Blue". Everyone knows that the REAL Death Star is elsewhere...

    6. Re:obligatory Star Wars reference by NanoGator · · Score: 4, Funny

      "If you think that's good, just wait until next week, when the Vice President of RBC will reveal that he's the father of Darl Mcbride, shortly after slicing his hand off."

      I hear Darl's sister is kinda cute.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
  2. Stock Charts by Davak · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why aren't people selling their SCOX stocks! They are going to crump. Sell now...

    Charts...

    Going down over the last 5 days

    About the same over the last 3 months

    1. Re:Stock Charts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      What a great idea! Everyone should have at least one short int sco; someplace.

    2. Re:Stock Charts by Davak · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Vice-President is selling...

      OLSON, MICHAEL P Vice President sold 10,000 shares on November 11, 2003.

      Davak

    3. Re:Stock Charts by steveha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From earlier discussions on Slashdot, I gathered that there isn't much SCO stock available on the terms that let you short-sell it; and what is available was already grabbed by other short-sellers.

      But there is one big problem with short-selling SCO stock:

      Short-selling doesn't work unless you can predict when the stock will go down. Given that no rational and well-informed person would buy SCO stock, I'm stumped to guess why it's as high as it is, and twice as stumped to say exactly when it will go down.

      You might be all set to short-sell SCO stock, and then Darl McBride might announce that SCO actually owns UNIX, BSD, Windows, MacOS, and CP/M; SCO stock doubles overnight and your short-sale, instead of making you money, loses you a lot of money.

      steveha

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    4. Re:Stock Charts by Steve+B · · Score: 4, Informative
      When you "short" a stock, you're (to simplify a bit) borrowing shares, selling them at their current price, and buying replacement shares later (at a lower price, if your speculation pans out) to return the loan.

      Thus, when everybody and his brother is shorting a given stock, the short-term effect is to increase demand for that stock, because brokers can profit by obtaining shares to lend out to short-sellers. This generates a "short-squeeze" bubble that has the counterintuitive effect of temporarily increasing the target stock's price.

      --
      /. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
    5. Re:Stock Charts by worm+eater · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Given that no rational and well-informed person would buy SCO stock, I'm stumped to guess why it's as high as it is, and twice as stumped to say exactly when it will go down.

      The fact is, despite what /. would have you think, no one is 'well-informed' about this case. It is a huge tangle of intellectual property law, contract law, and source code. No single person really knows what SCO can prove, what IBM can prove, where the code came from, where it is now or who owns what. There's plenty of speculation, and I personally wouldn't buy into SCO, but investors like to gamble -- and given the fact that SCO (David) is taking taking on IBM (Goliath) I guess the conclusion is they must have some kind of case. Darl's putting up a BIG front, and that's what investors look for.

      --
      Maybe partying will help...
    6. Re:Stock Charts by mattdm · · Score: 5, Informative

      And announced the intention to sell 30,000 more. In addition to the tens of thousands he's sold over the last months.

    7. Re:Stock Charts by Smallpond · · Score: 2, Interesting

      From finance.yahoo.com

      Shares Outstanding:13.85M
      Float:7.50M
      % Held by Insiders:45.83%
      % Held by Institutions:31.82%
      Shares Short (as of 10-Nov-03):1.62M

      Since the insiders better not be shorting the stock (or uh-oh, SEC) that means over 20% of the available stock IS being shorted.

    8. Re:Stock Charts by Rimbo · · Score: 2, Informative
      The fact is, despite what /. would have you think, no one is 'well-informed' about this case. It is a huge tangle of intellectual property law, contract law, and source code. No single person really knows what SCO can prove, what IBM can prove, where the code came from, where it is now or who owns what. There's plenty of speculation, and I personally wouldn't buy into SCO, but investors like to gamble -- and given the fact that SCO (David) is taking taking on IBM (Goliath) I guess the conclusion is they must have some kind of case. Darl's putting up a BIG front, and that's what investors look for.


      Not only is that what investors are looking for, they're also looking for PR's and analyses, and SCO's doing pretty well with those, too. There's also a "David and Goliath" feel that may appeal. Few people really invest logically to begin with!

      Now PJ at Groklaw has been covering this case very well. She's a paralegal, so analyzing the law is her strong suit. She's not exactly unbiased (very pro-Linux) but she has access to the facts and the ability to analyze it properly. She doesn't know what's going to happen, and can't speculate on some things that only a lawyer can do, but I would say that she and those who follow her site regularly (RSS feed for those of you who use newsreaders) are well-informed, and as well-informed as anyone.

    9. Re:Stock Charts by KD5YPT · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Shorting out a shock means you SELL borrowed stocks and at a later date, returned the stock by buying it back from the market. If SCO is to collapse or go backrupt, you won't need to return the stock you borrowed since there will be no stocks to be returned.

      --
      In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
  3. Hmm.. maybe from the recent court's judgment. by junkymailbox · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Looks like the banks realize their "investment in SCO is passive, made to hedge an economic exposure resulting from client transactions." "The court gave SCO 30 days to provide IBM with information and source code to prove its allegations. SCO, the ruling stated, must give IBM "all source code and other material in Linux ... to which [SCO] has rights; and the nature of plaintiff's rights." Take a dump or get off the pot!

  4. It'll be really funny... by TWX · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...when SCO's lawyers turn around and sue them next. It'll go from being "SCO Sues World" to "World Sues SCO"...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:It'll be really funny... by SubtleNuance · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The question is, will the US Justice system stand up to Corporate Criminals and toss these thieves in jail for their fraud.

      Isnt filing obviously bogus suits, to pump and dump a stock just a little illegal?

  5. Play in the sty, smell like a pig by joelwest · · Score: 2, Funny

    Subject says it all.

  6. Gives an entirely new reason to... by maroberts · · Score: 4, Funny

    Blame Canada!

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:Gives an entirely new reason to... by xutopia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      LOL Joke is on you! People don't know what RBC did by investing into SCO they got close enough to pull the plug on them.

  7. Reminds me of a story by Reminiscent+Troll · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sometime late last fall I received a call from a local business. They had a Unix box that was on the fritz, but unfortunately only had MCSE's on their support staff.

    After meeting up with my contact at the site, I tried to get a little more information about what kind of problem it was having. As we walked to the elevators he explained that no one really knew exactly what the box did, or if it was even in use anymore, but it was obvious that the machine was rebooting itself for no apparent reason.

    We got out of the elevator at the basement level of the building. The server was sitting alone in a damp room with a concrete floor and concrete walls. I was already pretty sure it was going to be a hardware problem, since Unix boxes don't tend to reboot for absolutely no reason. I pointed out that the damp environment was undoubtedly bad for the machine.

    He said, "The honest truth is, no one wants anything to do with this box. It's sitting down here because we're out of space in our server room, and the only guy that knew anything about this box quit three years ago, so we don't even know if it's doing anything useful." With that he turned and left me to figure out the problem.

    The machine was plugged in, the power switch was on, but the console was blank and mashing on the keyboard didn't seem to have any affect.

    As I was unscrewing the side panel from the case I started to notice that there was a really rank stench in the room. When I first entered the room I figured it was just mildew from the dampness or something, but it was really strong now. I really just wanted to get out of that dimly lit room and out into the sunlight and fresh air.

    It was hard to see anything in the case, so I fumbled around inside it with my hands making sure all the internal cables were securely attached to their respective components. Suddenly I felt something squishy and slimy on my hand and jerked it out of the box.

    At that instant the machine came on and began to POST. As the memory counted up, I turned the box so I could see into it by the light of the screen. Now I could see the cause of the problem. A rat had crawled into the case via an open drive bay and made a nest near one of the power supplies. She and several hairless newborns had died in there a week or two previous, and I had just stuck my hand in the middle of it all.

    As I was wiping my hands off on my pants, I noticed the machine had finished booting. I was like "Ugh, gross! This thing is running SCO Unix!"

    Needless to say, I marched right up to the IT offices and told them that the machine was undoubtedly no longer relevant to their business and that they should just throw the whole mess in the dumpster.

    --

    ---
    Raising the bar on Slashdot trolling since 2003

    1. Re:Reminds me of a story by reality-bytes · · Score: 3, Funny

      Pretty funny, the way you reacted to not the rotting carcasses, but to the fact that it was running SCO Unix... :-)


      Has someone been stealing the IQ round here?
      --
      Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
  8. Missing text in article by RobertB-DC · · Score: 5, Insightful

    SCO has admitted that its action is designed to shore up sagging sales by wringing revenue out of its rights to Unix, an older operating system from which [something is missing here] Linux was derived.

    Shouldn't the blank be filled in by the words "SCO contends"? As in, "Unix, an older operating system from which SCO contends Linux was derived."

    I thought the whole point of the defense against SCO is that Linux is Unix-like, but *not* "derived" from Unix. Unless I'm wrong (a frequent situation), the newspaper article has swallowed a little too much FUD today.

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    1. Re:Missing text in article by tuffy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think we need to read it quite that literally. "Derived", in this instance, can simply mean that Linux as an OS is a descendent of Unix, not necessarily that it derives any source code from Unix.

      --

      Ita erat quando hic adveni.

    2. Re:Missing text in article by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1) Linux is certainly "derived" from Unix for the purposes of journalism, whether or not it is derived from Unix source code.

      2) It _is_ partially derived from Unix source code, as in the Symbol font non-example.

      3) The question is whether Linux contains illegally used Unix source.

    3. Re:Missing text in article by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 5, Funny
      Unix, an older operating system from which [something is missing here] Linux was derived.


      "nothing in"

  9. Motley Fool by maroberts · · Score: 5, Informative

    ..doesn't appear impressed with SCO either!

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

  10. Hedge what exactly? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 4, Interesting
    'investment in SCO is passive, made to hedge an economic exposure resulting from client transactions.'

    So RBC does business with Red Hat, and needs to hedge against them going bust when SCO wins? Or they are hedging short positions they already had in SCO because of selling call options or the like to clients?

    It would make some sense if they said 'we have lots of Linux boxes, and we want to get cash if SCO wins to cover the licence fees'...

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  11. $50MM investment by gothamboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hmmm...what do they need $50MM for? If IBM (and the rest of the planet) are about to fold and have to pay huge bux to SCO, why do they need the invesment? Even if the IBM claim goes to trial, it will go to trial within a year or two so I would only imagine that SCO needs a couple of years worth of burnrate. It just seems to me weird that a company that only is losing a few hundred thou a year needs such a big investment.

    1. Re:$50MM investment by !Squalus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, they are alosing at about 3 Million a quarter, last I checked. I don't know what for, but they were spending that much.

      --
      All Ad hominem replies happily ignored as the sender shall be deemed to lack the faculties to comprehend the equation.
    2. Re:$50MM investment by gamma+male · · Score: 2, Interesting
      1) while recently SCO has shown a pro forma profit for 2 (3?) quarters, SCO execs know they've cooked the books. historically they're losing a few million each quarter.

      2) Boies' firm was retained, and they are billing hourly (granted, some of their billing is at 2/3 the normal rate, but that's still not cheap). This is in addition to any contingency factors that Boies' firm can also get money on. SCO had maybe $10M in the bank, and if one took about all of their accounting tricks, they're probably spending an additional 2M per quarter in legal fees. Given this burn rate, they wouldn't be able to last if they could get the money in 2004.

      3) from the "benefit of the doubt" side, even if SCO was confident that it would win the case, when you take into account appeals, IBM likely wouldn't have to pay until 2007; possibly later.

      4) Even given the $50M pipe deal, check out the yahoo financial SCOX message board; someone posted an analysis how unless they get more mystery money from SCO Source lincensing they currently can't survive long enough to make it to trial; much less to the appeals.

      They'll need another PIPE (which they won't get), or someone is going to have to pay SCO a lot in licensing (when you do that, your name is out) for SCO to survive to the trial even *with* the $50M deal.

      Granted, if you thought that SCO was telling the truth, only examined the recent pro forma quarters, and believed Skiba's stock analysis I can see how you'd wonder why they needed the $50M given that they're over a barrel now. However, when one knows this is just a stock scam, it becomes obvious.

  12. Finally investors prove they aren't idiots! by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm just watching SCO stock quotes and FINALLY they began running in the correct direction!

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    1. Re:Finally investors prove they aren't idiots! by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sure, a -$2 week. But keep it in perspective. This has still (so far) been a profitable endeavor on their parts.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  13. Who Owns Stock In SCO? by Davak · · Score: 5, Informative

    Probably you! You support SCO if you have investments with any of these companies or mutual fund holders...

    Capital Guardian Trust Company 1,177,800 8.51 $16,288,974 30-Sep-03
    Integral Capital Management Vi, LLC 316,600 2.29 $4,378,578 30-Sep-03
    Royce & Associates, Inc. 1,441,200 10.41 $19,931,796 30-Sep-03
    Integral Capital Management V, LLC 246,730 1.78 $3,412,275 30-Sep-03
    Empire Capital Partners LP 205,000 1.48 $1,961,849 30-Jun-03
    Barclays Bank Plc 174,686 1.26 $2,415,907 30-Sep-03
    Bjurman, Barry & Associates 160,000 1.16 $2,212,800 30-Sep-03
    ING Investments, LLC 143,100 1.03 $1,979,073 30-Sep-03
    Oberweis Asset Management Inc. 112,000 0.81 $1,548,960 30-Sep-03
    Whitney Asset Management LLC 76,967 0.56 $1,064,453 30-Sep-03

    Royce Technology Value Fund 105,000 0.76 $1,004,849 30-Jun-03
    Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund 24,713 0.18 $236,503 30-Jun-03
    Vanguard Extended Market Index Fund 17,875 0.13 $171,063 30-Jun-03
    Marketocracy Masters 100 Fund 3,900 0.03 $53,937 30-Sep-03
    Spartan Extended Market Index Fund 3,753 0.03 $54,831 31-Aug-03
    Spartan Total Market Index Fund 3,132 0.02 $45,758 31-Aug-03
    Vanguard Balanced Index Fund 2,125 0.02 $20,336 30-Jun-03
    Quantitative Master Series Tr-Extended Market Index Seri 1,775 0.01 $16,986 30-Jun-03
    Vanguard Institutional Index-Inst Total Stock Market Ind 705 0.01 $6,746 30-Jun-03
    Manufacturers Investment Trust-Total Stock Market Index 349 0 $3,339 30-Jun-03

    1. Re:Who Owns Stock In SCO? by Otter · · Score: 2, Funny
      Who Owns Stock In SCO?..Probably you!

      Probably. But with all the VC firms and hedge funds I keep my billions in, how am I supposed to keep track? Oberweis Asset Management? Empire Capital Partners? Hell, I probably _own_ some of them! And I'm not even an uber-rich dotcom mogul like Cowboy Neal and Timothy!

      Also, you forgot to mention that KDE owns SCO!

    2. Re:Who Owns Stock In SCO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative


      It's not fair to include index funds here. They are doing their job to own all stocks in a given index. The whole point of index funds is to match the market, not gamble, and usually to have low fees (and this is why they almost always beat other funds.)

      Now, if the manager of an *actively managed* fund is buying SCOX, that's a different story.

    3. Re:Who Owns Stock In SCO? by hypnagogue · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pull money from an index fund to avoid owning 0.000001 SCOX shares? Do you know what an index fund is?

      --
      Liberty you never use is liberty you lose.
    4. Re:Who Owns Stock In SCO? by 110010001000 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Companies don't get money when you buy stock. SCO only makes money off of the initial sale of the stock.

  14. Ladies and Gentlemen by Ridgelift · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ladies and Gentlemen, the rush of wind you just heard was the sound of SCOX stock deflating. Please brace yourself for the wailing and knashing of teeth of the SCO Group and their investors, followed by the lynching of Darl McBride. Torches and pitchforks will be available in the main lobby.

  15. Golgafrincham by Barkmullz · · Score: 5, Funny


    ...that would result in a 20-per-cent contingency payment to the company's lawyers.

    Where is a Golgafrincham Space Ark when you need one?

    --
    Ronald said nothing. He flung himself from the room, flung himself upon his horse, and rode madly off in all directions.
  16. Two significant pieces in the 8-K by southpolesammy · · Score: 3, Informative
    First off, IANAL.

    SCO's obligation to obtain the consent of the investors will terminate automatically if and when the aggregate number of shares of SCO's common stock issuable upon conversion of all outstanding shares of Series A Convertible Preferred Stock held by the Investors fails to equal or exceed five percent of SCO's outstanding shares of common stock as of December 8, 2003.
    So did SCO just announce that intend to issue more stock? I'm confused by what they intend to gain from this statement.

    SCO's agreement...provides that the law firms will receive...20 percent of the proceeds from specified events related to the protection of SCO's intellectual property rights. These events include settlements, judgments, licensing fees, subject to certain exceptions, or a sale of our company during the pendancy of litigation or through settlement...
    And now, did then just announce their intent to sell the company?

    Like I say, I'm not a lawyer, and this might be typical legalese, but if not, is this significant?
    --
    Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
  17. Goodbye, SCO.... by herrvinny · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well, it was fun bashing SCO while it lasted, but finally some investors have gotten some brains smacked into them and are wising up to SCO's ways. As I always said, the faster SCO goes bankrupt, the faster I can get SCO stuff at the bankruptcy auction for cheap....

    Wonder if SCO would sell me some of their copyrights to UNIX....

  18. SCOX already down almost 7% today by oddpete · · Score: 3, Informative
    http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=scox

    Hopefully the stock keeps up this trajectory!

    --
    I am cool for a variety of reason, but mostly because I use Oddpost

  19. Wow by nnnneedles · · Score: 5, Funny
    You gotta love the corporate newspeak.

    BC spokesman would only say that the 'investment in SCO is passive, made to hedge an economic exposure resulting from client transactions.'

    What he really meant to say was: "we don't really give a shit about this company, and this investment was the stupidest crap we've ever done."

    --
    Will code a sig generator for food
  20. Surprise in court? by MonkeyDluffy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article:

    IBM scored a surprise legal victory in that court case when a judge ruled on Friday in favour of IBM in SCO's trade-secret violation lawsuit against the computing giant.

    Huh? Even SCO wasn't surprised by what happened last friday in court.

    -MDL

    --
    Happy meals fund terrorism
    1. Re:Surprise in court? by ope557 · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's like when I am playing with my kids and I hide my eyes for a second and then fling my hands away and yell 'surprise'. They are genuinely surprised EVERY time, even if I do it 100 times in a row. I guess it is that kind of surprise.

    2. Re:Surprise in court? by Michael_Burton · · Score: 2, Funny

      Huh? Even SCO wasn't surprised by what happened last friday in court.

      A judge in a U.S. courtroom ruled that SCO had to produce some sort of evidence in support of their allegations. Now, honestly... how could anyone have foreseen that happening?

      --
      When all you have is an axe, everything looks like a grindstone.
  21. Pro Sco Slant? by toadf00t · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is it just me or does this article seem to have a Pro-Sco slant towards it?

    SCO has admitted that its action is designed to shore up sagging sales by wringing revenue out of its rights to Unix, an older operating system from which Linux was derived.

    Derived is used rather loosely here. To a casual looker, it might sound like SCO is in the right.

    IBM scored a surprise legal victory in that court case when a judge ruled on Friday in favour of IBM in SCO's trade-secret violation lawsuit against the computing giant.

    Whoa! :-) (emphasis on surprise)

    SCO had been pressuring the courts to force IBM to reveal its Unix and Linux source code so SCO could prove that IBM was using stolen code. But the judge ruled that SCO would have to present its own Unix source code first and identify which software code had been stolen.

    That does'nt make sense considering just about anyone can look at Linux source.

  22. Good story. Financial community isn't seeing it. by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting
    That's one of the better stories about SCO to appear in the financial press this week. They totally ignore SCO's hype and concentrate on real transactions.

    Bloomberg hasn't picked this up yet. Bloomberg is slipping. Yahoo Finance doesn't have it yet either.

    This is an unusual investment for a bank. It's a pure speculative play. Their management is probably kicking themselves for buying in at the top.

  23. Passive Aggressive bankers by RealProgrammer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They call the investment "passive", but they have control over SCO's biggest asset, the litigation division. They're watching this like a hawk, just as we are.

    --
    sigs, as if you care.
  24. Re:Investment is never passive... by leerpm · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, you do not understand what is going on here. RBC invested in SCO on behalf of a third-party. The investment was made by RBC on behalf of a client. The client gives RBC the money plus a fee, and RBC puts their money into the deal.

    No, what is going on here is someone is trying to make a wager on SCO and they don't want anyone to know about.

  25. They aren't altering the deal. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 5, Informative

    SCO's lawyers: "That wasn't part of the bargain!"

    RBC: "We're altering the deal, pray we do not alter it further...


    They aren't altering SCO's deal with the lawyers.

    What they're doing is getting agreement from SCO that SCO will not take an additional unilateral action (such as selling the company) that will trigger the CYA part of the deal (giving 20% of the company to the lawyers) - unless SCO first gets investor approval.

    "You promised them 20% of the company if you sold it. That would dilute our investment. So don't do that without asking us first."

    NO change to the deal with the lawyers. Just don't push the red button (and give away a fifth of the store) without asking the owners first.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:They aren't altering the deal. by Brandybuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

      NO change to the deal with the lawyers. Just don't push the red button (and give away a fifth of the store) without asking the owners first.

      Which brings up an interesting question in my mind. If the deal with the lawyers was made by the executives and not the board, is this deal even legal? Was the right to give away a "fifth of the store" even theirs?

      If I were an investor in SCO, and this prior deal wasn't disclosed to me, or made subsequent to my investment without my knowledge, I would immediately be on the phone to the SEC.

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
    2. Re:They aren't altering the deal. by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While this particular arrangement is uncommon, your objections to it would apply in any case of a stock issuance. Whether SCO's lawyers are paid in cash or in stock makes no difference to the shareholders.

      Yes, of course the CEO can do this. If it is obviously not in the best interest of the shareholders they can sue him, but it could easily be in the best interest of the shareholders.

      This deal was disclosed in exactly the fashion that it should have been as far as I can tell. And it was a judgment call on the part of the CEO. Exactly the type of thing he's paid for.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    3. Re:They aren't altering the deal. by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      NO change to the deal with the lawyers. Just don't push the red button (and give away a fifth of the store) without asking the owners first.

      Of course, this could turn into a change of deal with the lawyers. Picture this scenario:

      1. IBM says "ok, we give up, we'll buy you out at a 30% premium."
      2. Lawyers say - "ok, we want 6% of the market cap of the new company."
      3. SCO says "please, investors, let us do this".
      4. Big investor says to lawyer "settle for 1% or we'll call off the whole deal".
      5. Lawyer says "ok, we'll take 1% since it is better than fighting it out in court".

      Having absolute veto power means that everyone else is bending over backwards trying to make you happy...

  26. Re:rbc investing in SCO ! by leerpm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No, its a pipe deal. Somebody else is pushing money to SCO through RBC.

  27. In a way, good news by multimed · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Taking the "RBC spokesman" at his/her word, this is pretty interesting. By saying that the SCO holding is a hedge, they're saying that they are invested/investing pretty heavily in the other side and just trying to protect themselves in the event that something crazy happens and SCO wins. It doesn't mean they believe in SCO just that they're invested deep enough into presumably companies with a large portion of Linux business that they've taken out an insurance policy just in case. Which is good news because you don't buy insurance because you think something bad is going to happen, you buy it to protect yourself in case it does, but hope it doesn't. At least that's my interpretation of "hedge."

    Unfortunately as a result, they're helping prop up the stock price of an really awful company.

    --
    Vote Quimby.
  28. Hedge by nuggz · · Score: 4, Informative

    The investment has nothing to do with merits.
    If SCO wins this case other companies who are Linux dependant will get a HUGE loss.
    RBC has probaly invested in some of these companies.
    They gamble a small amount of money on SCO winning.
    This way they have less risk, SCO loses, their Linux investments payback - 50 million.
    The SCO case wins, they lose their Linux investments (or they are damaged) They get a windfall from SCO which partially offsets this loss.

    Think of gambling on a sports games against two people.
    They will pay 3:1 that their team wins.
    Bet $2, $1 each, and no matter who wins, you are ahead $1. Welcome to hedging.

    1. Re:Hedge by starseeker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, his scenario is you have two fans, one for each team. Each believes in his team and offers 3:1 odds that they will win. So you bet both of them, putting $1 down for their team losing. One team will win, so you lose $1, but one team will win, so you get $3. Assuming you don't get your initial $1 back from the bet you won, your total is -$2 +$3, or $1.

      If you were betting on both sides of a 3:1 game against the house and wanted to come out ahead, you would need to ensure you won enough no matter what to cover your loss on the other bet, and make a little extra in at least one of the scenarios. Assuming you do get your initial bet back if you win, let's look at the possible outcomes:

      Take the 3:1 odds, bet x -> net ahead 3x if correct, net loss x if wrong.

      Give the 3:1 odds, bet y -> net ahead y if correct, net loss 3y if wrong.

      So doing both, there are two possible outcomes:

      winning taking the 3:1
      3x-3y

      winning giving the 3:1
      y-x

      Now, let's assume there exist an x and y for which 3x-3y>0 and y-x>0

      y>x
      3x>3y -> x>y

      Since it cannot be the case that y>x AND x>y, there is no set of two bets x and y you can make on both sides that ensure a profit for you. You can ensure break even, but then there is hardly any point!

      The more interesting case is in something like a horse race, for example, where there are many possibilities. It is unlikely the tracks allow any such "guaranteed win" combination of betting, but given that the average track goer is unlikely to be doing matrix algebra and the potential profits from a risker bet will always be higher, perhaps it is not something they've had to worry about. Also, the odds shift in response to ticket sales and the computation and betting would have to be done just before betting closed. Still, fun to think about.

      --
      "I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
  29. Groklaw has a good story .. by leerpm · · Score: 5, Interesting
    going on here.

    One user states:
    I've always thought there was something fishy about RBC's rold in this. I can tell you such speculative investments are way out of character for a Canadian bank. Even if the money comes from the New York office of their brokerage/investment bank arm. When the deal was first announced, RBC refused comment saying they never comment on client affairs. That cryptic response caused some questions as the relationship with SCO didn't look like a bank/client relationship. An SEC filing in November indicated that the $30 million was RBC's money and did not belong to anyone else. It also indicated that RBC did not intend to sell its shares and had no prior arrangement to sell them.

    Now another cryptic statement. I've felt (with no evidence) that RBC was indeed up to something. But what? My best guess is that they have used their own money, and are not holding the shares for anyone else. And that they have an agreement with a third party about the disposition of any profit or loss from the deal. The logical arrangement would be that RBC puts up the money and gets to keep any profits. But the third party would compensate them for any loss. Thus the investment is clean, and the third party gets to funnel cash to SCO without disclosing their involvement.

    For the record, I have no idea who such a third party might be. I don't think it would be Microsoft. They have lots of money marching in the front door. Why would they need to sneak money in the back? But that doesn't leave any other likely suspects. Its possible that one of the other big propriatory software companies, like Adobe, could be behind it. We may never know.

    1. Re:Groklaw has a good story .. by incom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think it would be Microsoft. They have lots of money marching in the front door. Why would they need to sneak money in the back? They could be trying to add legitimacy to investment in SCO, by using a seeming unbiased party. After all, if most of the recent investments in SCO all had a whiff of microcash, it wouldn't be the best for legitimacy.

      --
      True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
    2. Re:Groklaw has a good story .. by miyoo · · Score: 2, Interesting
      RBC states that their position in SCO is a hedge position. What that means to me is that they probably hold a relatively large stake in a company or companies that might suffer if SCO wins legal victories (i.e., IBM). By taking a stake in SCO they reduce their potential losses if SCO wins lawsuits against other companies they own. They may not even believe that SCO is likely to win, but they want to be covered just in case.

      This may or may not be true, but that's how I interpret their statement.

  30. SCO case collapsing? by dbCooper0 · · Score: 3, Funny
    Ermm...last I checked something had to actually exist in order to collapse...

    Perhaps I wax pragmatically?

    --
    db
    Cig:
    ôô
    /`
  31. Royal Bank Canada new advertising slogan by rudy_wayne · · Score: 5, Funny

    You can't spell Fiasco without SCO

  32. this is making sense... by fermion · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Investment in SCO is passive, made to hedge an economic exposure resulting from client transactions
    This seems to be making sense. The investment companies are playing both sides against the middle. If SCO wins, the consequences will be likely be lower earnings for companies that must pay the licensing fees. OTOH, the investment bankers who have invested with SCO will be able to offset those losses by their earnings from SCO. If SCO loses, they lose their investment, but it is not that much money.

    As far as the lawyer veto, I think this is just another hedge in case SCO loses. The bankers want to keep the money instead of paying for currently promised obligation. In any event, they will probably just go court and claim that the lawyer fees are excessive. No one likes lawyers, and even in the case where a lawyer funds a litigation, such as the tobacco case with the states, the courts seem willing to put aside contractual obligations to the detriment of the lawyers.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  33. recently famous for Enron involvement, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    did anybody else notice the other reason RBC has
    been in the news

    http://www.cfo.com/article/1,5309,11460,00.html? f= features

    lately? To quote:

    "Goldin said that Bank of America and Royal Bank
    of Canada knew of fraud in Enron-related
    transactions. . ."

    Charming profile they're developing of late.

  34. The insiders are! by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The insiders *are* selling their shares. Darl isn't ... because he's already sold them. However, he's got another 600K options coming due soon. If ... he ... can ... just ... keep the stock up, he'll have "earned" a few million more for himself. And in any case he can always vote himself a 2M bonus for having attracted so much new investment.
    -russ

    --
    Don't piss off The Angry Economist
  35. Boise Representation by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am surpised that the main stream press did not make more of the fact that David Boise et al did not appear in court last week. You would think the law firm would at least have a representive present. Oh I would love to be a fly on wall back at SCO central right now.

    If I was a SCO sucker^h^h^h^h^h investor this would be a very troubling sign. In fact, Boise's presence is the only thing that really gave the lawsuit credibility - regardless of the fact that he lost the last two highly publized lawsuits.

    The short percentage on this stock is huge and that can help keep the stock price, up strangely enough. As the stock drops people complete the short transaction, which is "buying back" the shares that they sold earlier.

  36. An IBM surprise? by 99bottles · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The story notes, "IBM scored a surprise legal victory in that court case when a judge ruled on Friday in favour of IBM in SCO's trade-secret violation lawsuit against the computing giant..."

    I'm certainly no legal expert, but was this really that much of a surprise? From most legal info I've read about the case, it seem fairly accepted that SCO is really just fishing.

  37. Re:clueless by Peyna · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's like expecting a bailiff in some district court to know what the Supreme Court's decision was today on McConnell v. FEC.

    --
    What?
  38. when all is said and done by andih8u · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm gonna miss SCO and Darl McBride. They've kept me laughing and entertained on a daily basis. I mean, where else can you get a company that drags IBM to court and demands that they prove their case for them. Or contends that the GPL is unconstitutional. I mean, these guys are the comic relief of the computer industry.

    --


    slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
  39. way to cash in on the joke there Pedanto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I bet you're a huge hit at parties.

    Do you correct all the "chicken crossed the road" jokes too?

    "Actually, though very few people know this, biologically speaking, chickens lack the cognitive processes necessary to cross the road under the aforementioned circumstances. See the research done by Smoot and Hawley, 1934.... blaw blaw mumble mumble..."

  40. Darl's Brother.... by Tmack · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Was evidently the lawyer that represented SCO last friday.

    David Boies and his fellow Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP lawyer Mark Heise are SCO's attorneys in this case, but the software company was represented in a court skirmish last week in Utah between SCO and IBM Corp. byDarl McBride's brother Kevin. Kevin McBride, according to West Legal Directory, has a private practice in nearby Park City, Utah, where he specializes in litigation and appeals, not corporate-contract or intellectual-property law.

    Makes things even more fishy. Looks like the McBride family is going to make out nicely either way, SCO wins Darl gets a big payout, Kevin gets a cut of attorney fees, SCO looses and Kevin still gets a cut from the contingency plan.

    Also to reference Linux as being a derivitave of the "older operating system" Unix is wrong on a couple points. First has already been pointed out, Linux is designed to work like Unix but was not in any way derived directly from its source, which is actually what SCO is trying to claim in the first place. Also, the article fails to mention that the "older operating system" Unix is what SCO's primary buisness was based on originally.

    Tm

    --
    Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
    1. Re:Darl's Brother.... by DF5JT · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It strikes me as unusual to see that both your source and the story in Globetechnology fail to mention that last week's "skirmish court meeting" saw another lawyer as well: Mr. Brent Hatch, son of Mr. Orrin Hatch.

  41. Who d'yall think might be the big "client"? by pjkundert · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So, there is/are some large investor(s) that suddenly excersised huge financial instruments, exposing the RBOC to USD$50M in potential losses, should SCOX increase in value?

    This is the only rationalle that I can think of, for a big bank to buy SCOX; banks are typically not big risk takers.

    I wonder if there is any way to discover who bought "Call" options on SCOX from the Royal Bank? Perhaps some investor whose name starts with M? Maybe it didn't take a rocket scientist corporate finance guy to figure out how to force an "independent" third party to buy a big chunk of SCOX, if you don't want to do it personally...

    --
    -- -pjk Perry Kundert perry@kundert.ca http://kundert.2y.net
  42. How short-selling works by steveha · · Score: 5, Informative

    It loses you no money

    I don't understand what you wrote. But you seem to be saying that short-selling is low-risk, which is totally wrong.

    Here's how short-selling works:

    You expect a stock to go down in price. You borrow some shares of the stock, and sell them. Then at a predetermined date, you must buy the stocks back, and return the shares to whomever loaned them to you. If you sell at $16 per share, and buy back at $10 per share, you get to keep $6 per share, less any fees (you need to pay whomever loaned you the shares).

    But if you buy at $16, then Darl announces that SCO actually owns South America and the stock price goes up to $26, when it's time to buy back the stock shares you need to pay $10 per share.

    If you simply buy some stock, the worst thing that can happen is that the stock devalues to zero, and you lost all the money you spent on the stock. With short-selling, if the stock price unexpectedly soars, you can lose vast sums of money in a hurry. Buy-and-hold is much safer than short-selling.

    steveha

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    1. Re:How short-selling works by lynx_user_abroad · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I once heard a simpler summary of shorting:

      When you go long, your potential loss is limited, your potential profit is unlimited.

      When you go short, your potential profit is limited, your potential loss is unlimited.

      --

      The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.

  43. Hedging Operation. by baldusi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That means that some clienta has made a huge investment in Linux/IBM. So, should SCO win the case, what they loose from that deal they make up by owning 20% of SCO.
    Or it's simply a M$ front end.

  44. Re:rbc investing in SCO ! by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 2, Informative
    why they must have been on blow !

    What are you talking about? SCO stock would have been a great investment, it went way up. That's the point of a pump 'n' dump. As long as RBC got out just before it collapses, I think it's a good investment. Not because they think SCO is right, but because they think the stock would go up like it did.

  45. The SCO Case is NOT Collapsing by ViolentGreen · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The linux infadels have stolen SCO's code."

    "God will roast their stumachs in hell at the hands of Darl McBride."

    "Lying is forbidden at SCO. Darl McBride will tolerate nothing but truthfulness as he is a man of great honor and integrity. "

    ""We are winning!""

    Quotes for the SCO Information Minister

    --
    Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
  46. Re:rbc investing in SCO ! by leerpm · · Score: 4, Informative

    RBC is not in this for pump-and-dump. They are a banking institution and have way too much to lose from the consequences of taking part in such a scheme. Any gains from a pump-and-dump would be outweighed by the massive loses from being perceived as an untrustworthy entity to do business with.

    We have only a handful of major banks here in Canada. When they do anything that might be conceived as remotely negative, they get severly attacked for it.

  47. Surprise legal victory?! by Mr_Huber · · Score: 2, Interesting

    BM scored a surprise legal victory in that court case when a judge ruled on Friday in favour of IBM in SCO's trade-secret violation lawsuit against the computing giant.

    SCO had been pressuring the courts to force IBM to reveal its Unix and Linux source code so SCO could prove that IBM was using stolen code. But the judge ruled that SCO would have to present its own Unix source code first and identify which software code had been stolen.


    This was a surprise? Are these people paying attention? Do they have any understanding of the law? Do they do any research outside of the SCO press releases?

    How long has this issue been discussed on Slashdot and Groklaw? How long has IBM's motion been out? And this is a surprise?

    Frankly, the only surprise here is that anyone trusts these bozos with their money.

    1. Re:Surprise legal victory?! by Procyon114 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      One of the interesting elements of the article is the revelation that Kevin McBride is neither a Boies, Schiller lawyer nor possesses an IP practice: "Kevin McBride, according to West Legal Directory, has a private practice in nearby Park City, Utah, where he specializes in litigation and appeals, not corporate-contract or intellectual-property law."

      And yes, I agree it's astonishing that the foolish article would suggest that IBM's victory was a surprise. If McBride is a litigator by experience, he would have been well versed in the knowledge that the Plaintiff has the burden of proof/burden of production in setting forth evidence to support its claims.

      A 5 minute phone call to a lawyer would have framed the scenario in a similarly understandable fashion for Mr. Kapica. Hey, that's what I thought journalists were supposed to do, investigate, don't speculate :)!

  48. Re:Good story. Financial community isn't seeing it by neillewis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This investment isn't as speculative as it might first appear. RBS have $30M worth of preferred convertible shares. They can happily short against these to reduce their risk, lock in some cash profits, then as long as SCO doesn't go bust they collect 30% interest over 4 years. This deal has been set up so that BayStar and RBC will at least get their money back, even if SCO rapidly goes bust, and they do very very well if SCO hangs on for 3 years.

    This is the only way junk like SCOX can get cash funding.

  49. SCO Experiences DDOS Attack by gnalle · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yahoo story
    Check for yourselves
    SCO Experiences Distributed Denial of Service Attack
    Wednesday December 10, 3:19 pm ET
    Syn Attack Halts Availability to SCO's Internal Operations

    # LINDON, Utah, Dec. 10 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The SCO Group, Inc., (Nasdaq: SCOX - News) the owner of the UNIX operating system, today confirmed that on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 at approximately 4:20 a.m. Mountain Time, it experienced a large scale distributed denial of service (DDoS) attack. The attack caused the company's Web site (www.sco.com) and corporate operational traffic to be unavailable during the morning hours including e-mail, the company intranet, and customer support operations. The company's Web site remains unavailable while this DDoS attack continues to take place. The company is working with its Internet Service Provider to restore www.sco.com to legitimate Internet users.(Logo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/19990421/SCOLO GO )

    This specific type of DDoS attack, called a "syn attack," took place when several thousand servers were compromised by an unknown person to overload SCO's Web site with illegitimate Web site requests. The flood of traffic by these illegitimate requests caused the company's ISP's Internet bandwidth to be consumed so the Web site was inaccessible to any other legitimate Web user.

    "SCO is working with law enforcement officials and gathering information through mechanisms that we have in place to help us identify the origin of these attacks," said company spokesperson, Blake Stowell. "We deplore these activities by those who try to intimidate or harass legitimate businesses through cyber terrorist tactics while hiding their true identity."

  50. Re:Investment is never passive... by asciiRider · · Score: 2, Interesting

    perhaps it was redhat -
    hehe, If SCO wins, so do they!

  51. Darl's Swan Song: by pair-a-noyd · · Score: 2, Funny


    Sheila: Time's have changed
    Our kids are getting worse
    They won't obey their parents
    They just want to fart and curse!
    Sharon: Should we blame the government?
    Mrs. Cartman: Or blame society?
    Dads: Or should we blame the images on TV?

    Sheila: Heck NO, blame Canada
    Everyone: Blame Canada
    Sheila: With all their beady little eyes
    And flapping heads so full of lies
    Everyone: Blame Canada
    Blame Canada
    Sheila: We need to form a full assault
    Everyone: It's Canada's fault!

  52. Got this message back on October 24 by rcpitt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Dear Mr. Pitt:

    Thank you for your recent correspondence. We at RBC Financial Group
    appreciate feedback and welcome the opportunity to address your concerns
    about recent reports about RBC's purchase of shares in SCO.

    Due to regulatory constraints and issues of client confidentiality, we are
    limited to what information may be disclosed in our response. The purchase
    of SCO preferred shares for US $30 MM by RBC was disclosed in a routine US
    Securities Exchange Commission (SEC) filing and is a matter of public
    record. The investment was made to hedge economic exposure resulting from
    client related transactions.

    Thank you for taking the time to write and for sharing your comments with
    us.

    RBC Royal Bank
    Customer Relations Centre

    ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
    -----------------

    From: richard @pacdat.net
    Posted At: 00:58:44.540 10/18/2003
    Posted To: RDMNTIBG @rbc.com
    Subject: Other

    Date : Sat Oct 18 00:52:28 2003

    Comments :
    -------
    Please pass this on to the highest level of management. I understand that
    the bank has invested money in SCO.
    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1356718 ,00.as p I have been a SCO
    reseller - prior to its sale to Novell I used to work for a company also
    owned in part by the Canopy Group I work with the Linux operating system and
    am very conversant with the ongoing dispute between SCO and "the rest of the
    world" and am of the opinion that SCO's management are doing what they are
    doing for personal gain (note the amount of insider trading that has been
    done by them in recent weeks) This investment by Royal Bank is one of the
    most stupid things I have ever heard of you doing. The tactics being used by
    SCO in their quest for publicity (I can't conceive of them actually gaining
    anything in the way of licensing and/or penalties from their suits with IBM
    and/or SGI and others) are grandstanding of the first order. I have been a
    loyal customer of Royal Bank for almost 20 years but am strongly considering
    moving my business just over this one stupid act. For my background, please
    see: http://richard.pacdat.net richard
    --

    --
    This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately.

    Ce courrier electronique est confidentiel et protege. L'expediteur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) designe(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier electronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser immediatement, par retour de courrier electronique ou par un autre moyen.

    =

    --
    Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
    and didn't get it
  53. where? by jafac · · Score: 2, Funny

    And exactly WHERE is fuckedcompany.com during all of this?

    Asleep at the wheel again. . .

    --

    These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  54. More on How short-selling works by TheWizardOfCheese · · Score: 2

    The parent post is good, so far as it goes, but there is an important point it did not emphasize.

    If you buy a stock for $10 and sell it for $20, you make $10 (ignoring time value.) It doesn't matter (except psychologically) if the stock dropped to $1 in the interim.

    On the other hand, if you short a stock at $10 and it rises to $20, you have a big problem, even if the stock later drops to $1. The reason is that the stock borrowing mentioned by the parent requires collateral ("margin") - that's cash, for the likes of you and me. Your broker will mark your position every day and make margin calls when necessary.

    The bit about predetermined dates is a bit misleading, because you can always close your position early if you can find a seller. You can also extend your short if you can find another lender.

    Finally, some people have suggested buying a put instead of shorting the stock. That won't work because A) there are no exchange-traded SCO puts, and B) no market maker will sell an OTC put if they can't hedge (by short-selling.)

    --

    "The good reader is a rarer swan than the good writer."
  55. Only plays a tangle on TV by IBitOBear · · Score: 4, Informative
    The thing is, it really *isn't* a "tangle" of anything but the outgoing PR. While nobody can tell what SCO is going to CLAIM they own, there is a good record of what they CANNOT POSSIBLY own. Once you subtract what they CANNOT POSSIBLY OWN, the remainder is the sum total of what they COULD POSSIBLY own.

    THEN they would have to prove that ownership.

    The thing is, Linus (And hence the Linux kernel effort) has detailed records of what came from whom (and therefore from where). SCO has no such records except the vague statement that "whatever we (sco) have we own."

    If there is common code, and Linus can prove who provided it to him (e.g. who wrote it), and SCO cannot prove even the first records of who provided the code to *them*, then guess who legally possessess "proof of ownership."

    See the word Provenance (which usually applies to "fine art"). Lets say I walked up to you with a genuine Picasso, proveably genuine, if I can't provide the chain of ownership that demonstrates that it is mine to sell to you, you would be a fool to buy it.

    The same basic features apply to the (mis-named) intellectual property issues. If SCO demonstrates that there is code in common between something they claim to own and the Linux kernel, they will need to be able to make a stronger claim of ownership than that made by the OS community.

    This is the basis of the ATT vs BSD settlement. In that case BSD was more pursuasive in their ownership of the disputed text because they had the original copyright notices that included the names of the authors, and they had the authors right there saying "yep" I wrote that under X cirsumstances. ATT was in the SCO position of just having some program text in a bunch of files, no attributable authors and no copyright notices.

    The point is, SCO has produced no proof because they have none. They are (probably) hoping to release whatever confluence of code they may have as close to closing arguments as possible, on the grounds that such material would apear to stand on merrit. They *cannot* release that data because the very presence of submission and aproval-for-inclusion records kept in the linux project system (BitKeeper et al) is, by definition, "more pursuasive" than any straight claim.

    We saw how fast the one example that got out was debunked. By this time SCO is hoping to do a drive-by submission-of-evidence. That never works. 8-)

    Guessing that they have some kind of case is very bad. The simple fact that they havn't produced a single spesific instance of (provenanced) code in the process of pursuing thier case, is rather indicitive.

    Remember that in civil cases there is no "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. It is purely "proponderance of evidence." In a civl matter it is *ONLY* a question of who has "more and more credible" evidence.

    "incredible" evidence and clames are, by definition, useless.

    --
    Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
    --"Code Complete" Microsoft Press