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Hitachi Readies Fuel Cell for PDAs
Anuj Jain writes "The Register is reporting that Hitachi and Japanese cigarette lighter maker Tokai will ship a direct methanol fuel cell system for PDAs in 2005. The prototype has already been built. The two companies believe they can develop the prototype into a device the size of a AA battery. Hitachi first demonstrated its fuel cell system back in March. NEC is also known to be working on a similar system of its own, as is Toshiba. Unlike Hitachi, they are targeting the notebook computer market. In October, Toshiba showed off a PDA-sized version of its fuel system that can recharge a mobile phone. Another article here. Light on details, but cool photo in the Reg article!"
Yep, that'd be the hydrogen
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Also, the thought of a liquid methanol next to all those hot electronics make me wince.
Akmed to airport security: "I told you, I'm a laptop battery salesman..."
there are four (yes, 4) links to theregister up there. the one with the pic is the first one.
Coming soon, the worlds first combination PDA-cigarette lighter!
There is also a competing technology being developed using sodium borohydride. You can read about it at Wired, at the following URL , http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,60305, 00.html
The PDA unfortunately has pop-ups that come up every 5 minutes telling you how smoking is good for you and increases your annual income.
Ethanol stores more chemical energy, is easier to make, easier to come by in a pinch (cheap vodka anyone?), and is much less toxic than methanol. Why the hell aren't they using ethanol?
sufficient fuel to power a handheld device for six to eight hours.
That's meaningless! Give me some hard data! What's the voltage, the peak and average current ratings, the amp-hours? Can it blink a handheld LED for 6 hours, or run a 400Mhz ARM core with a backlit color display for 6 hours? Is the power density higher than an LiIon battery of the same size? How much does it cost? Can it be refilled in place without turning off the device?
Seems to me that if this was actually signifigant progress, they'd be telling us all this.
I wonder how much methanol will be needed to keep modern laptops running? At 50 W power consumption, a laptop consumes about as much energy as half a person. With an energy content of 19.5 MJ/kg MeOH and assuming a 75% conversion efficiency, a laptop needs almost 100 gm of methanol for an 8 hour flight.
Something tells me that airlines and security people won't like the idea of people carrying 4 ounce cartridges of flammable pure methyl alcohol onboard flights. Even in a "secure" cartridge form factor, the liquid would seem to pose a hazard if a terrorist learns how to open the cartridge and set fire to the liquid.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Tech : No, sir. You should NOT try to recharge them like that...
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
While this sounds cool I wonder how practical this will really be.. When I need PDA juice I just pop the thing in the wall and I'm charged. I don't think people will like having to buy methanol cartridges for $5 a shot in order to keep the thing running. To me it's more economical to operate it off the battery and pay the few cents it takes to charge it.
www.lonseidman.com
Therefore, we should ban forks from planes.
Let's be realistic -- there's only so much you can do.
and mind you, that's 8 hrs *continuous use*. The battery on my palm will last for 4 hours on continuous use, but if I don't actively use it, it could last for months.
My point is, that if the battery does last this long, then there would be no use to take a recharge on the plane with you (at least not in your carry-on luggage).
Even if you were on vacation or something and you needed to recharge, I'm sure (by the time this technology is viable) that it would be fairly redily available at a specialty store (like radio shack). If other markets start using this tech, there will be a higher demand for availability of methanol.
Just my $0.02
/nova20
(glugg, glugg) Help! I can't see my PDA!
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
These things are going to explode way less often than current battery packs. You'll have a hard time igniting a 20% methanol solution.... and that's only when it's fully charged.. It get's diluted down to as low as 3% by the time the cell is fully discharged. It's practically water.
The fuel cell industry needs to work on it's terminology to stop the misguided myth generation.
Duno if it's in the article, but so far Hitachi have manage to produce a prototype with 20% methanol concentration. The proto can run a PDA for about 6-8 hours. They are planning to increase the methanol concentration however, something which should increase the power. The problem now however is what to do with the waste product of the batery, namly water. Not to cool having a leaking PDA in your pocket ;)
Can someone who knows more about this than me enlighten us on whether these things are rechargeable?
I have a hard time seeing these things catch on if they are one time use.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
It's clear from all the mindless paranoia that we should just ban airlines.
Or we could all start thinking rationally.... Which one of those is more likely?
The reason they don't want to use ethanol is precisely BECAUSE it is the same as alcohol.
If they use ethanol, they have to treat the refills just as they would have to treat vodka - they cannot sell it to anybody under-age, they have to have a liquor license to sell it, they got to prison if they violate the rules.
That is why you don't see pure ethanol at the gas pump, that is why you won't see ethanol fuel for fuel cells.
Now, the COULD try to design the fuel cell to run on ethanol, as well, and leave the fact as a "back door" sort of issue, but any fuel they sell will have to be denatured in some form. The easiest way is to use methanol.
www.eFax.com are spammers
Remember what Smokey the Bear says. Only you can prevent your methanol based fuel cell system from starting a forest fire.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Therefore, we should ban forks from planes.
I know you were joking, but they did. About 9 months ago, I was stopped by security when doing the pre-boarding check and given the third degree. It turns out that I had a fork in my backpack that I kept just in case and had forgotten about. They actually made me throw it away before I could get on the plane, and double checked everything I had to make sure I wasn't carrying anything else I could hijack the plane with. (Yeah, because there's no way you could ever fight off a scrawny computer geek if he were armed with tableware.)
- fader
We've been waiting for this since you first told us about it 6 years ago, folks. Hurry up and DO it already. It seems every time there is some article on this it's just to fuel some hype for a new round of investment or something. It's always been 'Next Year!!!" or something like that, but never "Look. Here is a cell phone running on a fuel cell. It cost us $100,000 to build this one, but we're ramping up for mass production and should be ready to start the robots up in 12 months." They always have some vague concept artwork and a giagantic prototype and this 'please give us money' verbiage.
As for the airplane problem, first, I don't think there will be any regulation or rules on this until it actually becomes a problem. I mean, they still let you carry a cigarette lighter and a bottle of booze onto a plane and that is no worse. The first second someone sets fire to the inside of a cabin, though, how long do you think before no liquor or fire-making devices are allowed as carry on's?
Now, follow this idea here -- If fuel cells actually exist and are cheap and great AND they have been around long enough and are ubiquitous enough that the airlines have a problem with them it would be highly likely that EVERYONE is walking around with one or more of these things in all manner of electronic gadget they posess. It's also likely that the gadgets have grown increasingly more demanding power wise after the dependence on batteries is freed. Thus, using batteries is really kind of a non option. In order to keep business, airlines would have to do something such as provide reliable and universal alternative power supplies on the airliners or lose business. It's not a problem I'm worrying about. I don't see why people feel the need to keep bringing it up. It's not like we'll even be flying around in planes anymore once these things come to market in about 200 years.
The only way the security-paranoid TSA will let this slide would be if it was non-flamable, or in such small quantities it would be harmless. Unfortunately, that would also make the technology useless.
GAH!
1. Read
2. Think
3. Post
It's very simple.
It's right in the story. 20% solution. Non-flamable. In fact the device *can't work* with pure methanol. It needs a 3-6% solution. I'd hardly call making it non-flamable the same as making it useless. Making it non-flamable is the *only way* to make it useful.
Think these devices will be allowed on Airplanes?
Yes.
The fuel is non-flamable. It's 80% water.
it doesn't change the fact that conventional batteries will probably still be safer.
You are wrong. These are safer in every way. The real question is wether they hold enough power to be better than what we already use.
"...last 6 to 8 hours...".
:-)].
Then what? Do I buy more cells? Can I plug them into the wall and recharge them?
At least with my AA's and my Laptop I can just charge them when they die. I've used my AA's [GP1600s] since May 2001 quite a bit and they're still going strong [I'd say they count as environmentally friendly considering if you estimate I would have gone through 4AAs a week for two years that's 416AA batteries or roughly 27lbs of waste].
Anyways make a "fuel cell" I can top off with tap water or by plugging into my wall and then maybe I'll consider it [a 1.5v/3Ah AA battery would be nice
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
...Why won't they make this with ethanol.
Don't you think it would be cool to take a sip from your PDA on cold days?
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Are you sure it's safe to have fuel cells available to the public? Have you seen what the fuel cells powering the T101 in Terminator 3 can do when not properly disposed of?
While that is how it is designed, that doesn't mean that someone with nasty intentions couldn't fill them with 100% methanol (or something worse). Unless the TSA uses sensing equipment sensitive enough to tell what concentration of what chemical is in the fuel cells, it would provide good camouflage for the nasties. Of course, we are still talking about really small amounts of stuff, so I bet it would still be difficult for a terrorist to use it to bring down a jet.
The companies that sell the ink-cartridge refilling kits?
Somehow I don't believe that these fuel-cells will be designed to be customer refillable. Following HP, Lexmark and other printer manufacturers, I would expect the fuel-cells to be designed for just one use (return to place of purchase and buy a factory new one).
Along with this, I'm sure there will be warnings/campaigns stating that home refilling solutions will be dangerous, ruin the fuel cell because of improper chemical ingrediants, have significantly less operating time, void your laptop/PDA's warranty or cause you to grow hair on the palms of your hands.
Most of the posts I've seen in this thread make the assumption that the cells can be refilled by the user. I would be very surprised if this was the case.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
To what should they change it?
Booze Battery?
Vodka Wattsa?
Gin-erator (or En-Gin)?
www.eFax.com are spammers
Hollywood movies in which laptop computers crash off a cliff and explode into flames.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Also, the thought of a liquid methanol next to all those hot electronics make me wince.
I'm sure the though of having 10-20 gallons of GAS! just a yard away from your ass, and forcing the gas into cylinders where it will be mixed with air and EXPLODE thousands of times a second might also make you wince!
I guess I can cross of full cells for the Palm, and cars from your x-mas wish list. :)
I don't know if the politically correct police told you or not, but you're not allowed to promote nuclear energy.
you're supposed to ignore the inescapeable pollution and toxins that fossil fuels and lead-acid batteries dump into our atmosphere, and forget that nuclear power provides at the very least the opportunity for sealed system waste.
nope, we'd rather be 100% certain that we're asphyxiating ourselves and the planet rather than run the risk of irradiating a designated part of it.
any talk of a nuclear reaction is only to be met with horror and outrage. you're not supposed to point out science can create reactors in which it is -impossible- for them to go critical.
no my friend, we are way more advanced a civilization than to think nuclear energy is plausible.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
As much as progress may benefit from free markets, this is an area where it is being confined to increments just slightly better than currently available products in order to derive maximum profit. This is a revolution that is being constrained to an evolutionary time table.
Several interesting things to note.
Politicus
Something tells me that airlines and security people won't like the idea of people carrying 4 ounce cartridges of flammable pure methyl alcohol onboard flights.
As opposed to bringing any flammable liquid onboard in a soda bottle? People should already realize that the "extra security" in airports an other public places is an absurd waste of travelers' and taxpayers' time and money. It is possible to kill another person with a simple towel after a few weeks training. Glass from picture frames or many other everyday items can be very deadly.
The only way to keep people safe from each other is to handcuff them to their seats, so let's bring an end to this nonsense already.
When men used to be men
The fuel source is probably going to be in a sealed canister anyways, maybe something resembling a battery. I doubt they'd use an open design where you refill a fuel tank. That would be awkward and potentially dangerous. Remember this is a consumer electronics item. You want it simple and idiot proof. Having the fuel canisters sealed and of small size would limit their weapons potential -- molotov cocktails the size of a thimbel aren't going to intimidate anyone.
The question I have is where the water is going to go? All of the fuel cells that have been demoed, including the mini-methanol ones the size of 3 quarters stacked, pump out a fair bit of water for the size. Where is it going to go? Is there a resevoir where this water is going to slosh about that you have to empty periodically? or is your PDA just going to be peeing in your lap as you read your emails?
Gosh, so it's only thousands of times a minute? Way to totally miss the parent's point.