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Money Problems May Derail First U.S. MagLev Train
PSaltyDS writes "The Virginian Pilot is reporting on the trials and tribulations of what was supposed to be the first MagLev train in regular use in the U.S. The MagLev Project was to cover a portion of the Old Dominion University campus, and start service in 2002, but after $14 million spent, it has yet to carry a single passenger. In the article, several engineering types seem to say the same thing, something like 'A great idea that is just too hard to do without an unlimited budget.' Is a maglev train an impractical fantasy like the personal flying car?"
Seriously just go with the best most practical solution
The only trains that survive are local trains (like the BART) and subways really...but for those purposes there is no reason to have a MagLev system--it is too costly to implement for such a small project. magLev would be great long distance, but again, planes are still more popular and don't take up real estate on the ground.
Trains, planes, and automobiles...the first of the bunch is just dropping out of the equation here in America.
FUTURISTIC MAGLEV trains that zoom along guideways at 300 mph on a cushion of air have been heralded for more than three decades as the next global transportation revolution.
But the only version that was hauling passengers -- a low-speed, half-mile people mover at Birmingham International Airport in England -- was junked four years ago in favor of a standard shuttle bus.
Such setbacks haven't dimmed the ardor of international proponents of high-speed maglev (short for magnetic levitation), however, and in fact the chances to build the first systems in the United States seem tantalizingly close. Seven projects, awarded federal grants totaling $12 million, are competing to win $950 million more next year to design and start construction.
One of the seven -- a consortium beginning to build a half-mile test track in Titusville, Fla. -- includes the Long Island scientists who invented much of the original technology. "Within two years, we will have the first working maglev system in America," boasts promotional literature from the consortium, Maglev 2000, which also includes the state of Florida and Dowling College's National Aviation and Transportation Center in Oakdale.
Physicists James Powell and Gordon Danby, both then at Brookhaven National Laboratory, in 1968 pioneered the use of "supermagnets" intended to lift entire trains and whirl them along a guideway. An Army Corps of Engineers report said maglevs could exceed 500 mph when fully developed -- head-spinning ground speed for moving people and goods.
But the United States abandoned its efforts in 1975, and Japan and Germany have dominated maglev research ever since; Japan has built upon Danby and Powell's ideas while Germany came up with a rival technology. Either country could have systems carrying paying passengers in the next few years,but hurdles in funding, politics and environmental protection remain.
There are some technical problems that need to be worked out on test tracks, including stabilizing the fast-moving trains on the air cushion, assuring they can negotiate curves smoothly and developing complex switching networks for trains to pull off main lines and into depots. The Birmingham minisystem was replaced partly because of technical difficulties.
But renewed federal interest is sparking new hopes for maglev in this country. Two years ago, a panel of experts named by the secretary of transportation concluded: "The long-term development of magnetic levitation transportation in the United States is critical to addressing the nation's long-term transportation needs."
Powell said he believes that by midcentury, as regional maglevs emerge, one might be built the length of Long Island, moving freight and passengers swiftly to connecting points such as Grand Central Station and freight depots. Ultimately, the Florida consortium proposes a 20-mile project linking Port Canaveral to the Kennedy
Space Center and Titusville Regional Airport.
Other U.S. applicants are pushing visions including a 45-mile system between Pittsburgh International Airport and the city's eastern suburbs, a 40-mile run between Baltimore and Washington, D.C., and a 75-mile system connecting Los Angeles International Airport to downtown and points farther east in Riverside County.
The federal support has limits, however. Under the law, it would pay only for guideways; state and private sector funds would have to pay for cars, stations and the rest. Congress could also decline to start parceling out the $950 million; the impending retirement of Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-N.Y.), a champion of maglev, could delay the U.S. catchup effort.
Most of the delay in maglev's debut elsewhere has come down to money and environmental concerns. Construction of the German Transrapid system, after years of tests up to 300 mph with people on board, was to begin this year but was stalled again in recent weeks amid battling over the proposed $6 billion, 185-mile Berlin-Hamburg route.
And powerful environm
...ignoring the existing half-dozen working solutions in preference for pissing millions of dollars on a homebrew solution.
Even more stupid is insisting on a maglev solution when there are equally fast and substantially less-expensive traditional solutions, aka the French and Japanese bullet trains. One of those puppies just broke the 500kmh barrier with passengers.
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Maglev transportation has been something people have talked about for like 3 decades now and it still hasn't been fully realized in the way it's been portrayed. I doubt it ever really will be. I see it as akin to supersonic flight -- it's faster, but the costs of using it outweigh the benefits in most cases. If you had listened to some of the people around when the Concorde was introduced, all flights would be using this now. It's just not realistic.
I predict there will continue to be only a few, very specialized routes that utilize maglev. I would imagine there are less than 20 routes in the world where maglev truly makes sense.
There is money to be made (or saved) in public transport. There are several routes right now that are crying out for fast efficient public transport where maglev is the best answer (London Commuter Corridors, Germany Inter-City and New York to Washington). These are routes which people will pay for faster services. Someone just has to have the willpower and political stamina to bring it to fruition.
Like any new technology, the first one will be expensive and probably not the fastest. But this technology has to start somewhere.
Your comments are indeed appropriate for the NYC to Boston segment, but between Trenton and Newark, NJ, the Amtrak caps out at around 120mph. 10% of Pennsylvania's easternmost county, Bucks, commutes to the NYC metro area, thanks in large part to Amtrak. Not to mention the cost of living.. I always tell people I pay a near-rural cost of living with a midtown salary.
You will never ever see the entire DC-to-Boston corridor converted to maglev because the last leg of the rail-based system has a lower speed limit. That's just ridiculous.. try taking the train to Philly one day and you'll see what the rest of us have been enjoying for decades.
Last year, we decided it would be nice to take Amtrak for a visit to Chicago (from St. Louis, MO), rather than drive all the way up there.
I've always liked trains, though I almost never ride them. I was really looking forward to this opportunity, and was quite let down.
For starters, the train was at least 15 minutes late arriving at the station (in Kirkwood). Then, we were told that Amtrak trains to Chicago never really leave directly from Kirkwood's station. They have to first travel to the downtown station. (So in other words, more wasted time before we really got under way.) The downtown St. Louis Amtrak station is a disgrace. It looks like an old tin shack. Ever since our original station (Union Station) was decomissioned and turned into a shopping mall, Amtrak has never bothered to replace it with anything remotely decent-looking. Then, our train stopped out in the middle of nowhere for at least 30 minutes, waiting for the track to clear up ahead. (Perhaps another Amtrak train broke down? They never did explain.) Then, there were all of the scheduled stops at little stations where it seemed that nobody got on or off anyway. The train cars themselves were at best, in "average" condition. They reminded me of old seats on a bus that needed a good cleaning or reupholstering. By the time we finally arrived in Chicago, I was *very* glad to be off the train, and felt like driving would have been the superior experience. (I still had to get a rental car for the rest of our Chicago trip anyway.)
It's obvious that Amtrak has NO clue how to properly run a public transportation system - and they're rather perpetuate the belief that trains just aren't profitable anymore than take the steps needed to succeed. I really hope they do go bankrupt and govt. doesn't bail them back out. Maybe then, a private investor will buy up the right-of-ways and equipment and run it like a real business!
Yes you can do it. They have that kind of technology in actual use in China. Built by a german consortium. But there's a reason this consortium did not get to build one in Germany. You can make one work, but the costs are horrendous. Just like the Concorde's. So, at least for the foreseeable future, it's unlikely you will see this in a western country near you. Not because of physics, but simply for the fact that no sane investor likes the words "unlimited budget".
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
Yes - but the Germans built it - with German technology, from German R&D. I did do some research on the matter !
Well, the Japanense people has the world most personal savings in the world. That is in absolute numbers not per person. (about $10 trillion)
source
The current economical situation drives the average Japanese to spend even less money, which actually makes things worse. This is actually also the assessment of the Japanese goverment.
> when they see than Amtrack has derailed once again and dozens of people are dead or in the hospital
But they drive car? That is funny. What was the number one cause of unatural death?
> I'm 29 and most of my friends in Tokyo don't even own cars....they don't feel the need to.
Do they go out after 00:00? Or do they go out until 6:00? A car could come in handy. OTOH, you can't drink (or at least shouldn't), and there are also taxis. And compared to the costs of maintaining a car in Tokyo...
> The shinkansen (bullet train) is at least 5 times faster than driving a car and slightly cheaper than flying.
AFAIK, not anymore. For buisness people, flights with ANA can be even cheaper. The JR companies are losing market-share. That is why they faded out the old Shinkansen line, decreasing on-board service, and want faster trains. To be more competetive to the airlines.
"Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
Growth in Germany has been lousy for the last few years but they are now the World's largest exporter. So some things are still going well over there.
As for their Maglev, the link to Berlin has been cancelled, but the technology was licensed to China. The Chinese have used it to create the new high speed link between Shanghai and its airport and are looking at the construction of a track between Shanghai and Beijing.
Best wishes,
Mike.
I can't stand the ritual humiliation of air travel... you have to be some kind of buddhist monk or masochist. YOU! Back in line, sheep, or I'll perform an invasive bodily cavity search with unlubricated gloves! Spare me.
No, train travel's the way to go. The other day I rode the Acela to Boston, and two guys got on with holstered guns at their hips... chatting easily, and obviously some kind of private rent-a-cop - nobody batted an eye, nobody wet their pants. Of course that might have been because they were all carrying legally registered concealed deadly weapons like me, or maybe the people who ride trains are just braver and smarter than the sheeple that can stand to ride planes. I dunno.
In 1966, when I was nine years old, I took a flight to North Carolina from Philly. My folks dropped me off at the airport and my grandma picked me up in NC. Nobody thought anything of it, and nobody was searched, or had to pass through metal detectors, or stand in lines for hours.
And no, times have NOT changed. There were just as many rapists, child molesters, and garden variety freaks per capita in 1966 as in 2003.
People have simply become fundamentally weak and cowardly these days.
I've heard all this crap lately about spending trillions to go back to the moon because the Chinese want to build a moon base. It's a bunch of horse shit.
However, I would be happy to engage the Chinese in a "maglev race". We get effective transportation as a side effect. After a while, we may even begin to stop subsidizing new airport construction.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
I used to like the metroliner a lot better than flying from DC to NYC. This happened to be the ONLY line that actually made amtrak money. Fast trains, superior service, on time. THe regular trains did suck though.
The US did invest heavily in trains. It was nixed. Probably because of mob mentality. More about that later.
In the 1970's, Secretary of Transportation John Volpe demanded and encouraged and funded LIMRV, Linear Induction Motor Research Vehicle and TLRV. Tracked Levitated Research Vehicle amongst others. Companies including Ford, Garret and Grumman were asked to come up with designs.
Grumman built and tested TLRV, and was tested at 300mph (480kmh).
Garret built a test vehicle had a speed of 256mph (410kmh) in 1965. That is just 12mph shy of a brand new system in China now being readied for use in the Shanghai metro area, but it was done, again, 38 year before.
With the insane resistance to nuclear power (check out France meeting its power needs beautifully and cleanly for a case study as to why to use it), electrical train designs fell by the wayside. The resistance to nuclear power gave birth to the Oil Mafias of today (and the subsequent cartels, OPEC, and undesirable cash flow to undesirable regions), and these trains fell by the wayside.
If you add up all the miles of railroad in the USA, 194,731km/121,000miles, which is huge compared to other companies by raw number or by per-capita (Russia has 87,157km/54,168mi ; China 71,600km/44,499mi ; India 63,518km/39,477mi ; Japan 23,168km/14,400mi ; Germany 45,514km/28287mi ; Sweden 11,481km/7135mi ; UK 16,893/10500mi). Apparently the US does have railway know-how.
I think it is safe to say when large, uneducated public outcry affects the policies of a government, particularly when it is about the root of all economies, energy; you give birth to more evil demons. By creating this negative stigma about the word nuclear (an MRI in a hospital is really an NMR, Nuclear Magnetic Resonance imaging, but people hate "nuclear.") and all things nuclear, you bought yourself an oil mafia, fossil fuel trains, fossil fuel cars, fossil fuel being used to create energy that melts ore into metal for every car, from SUV to Train to Plane to Automobile (about 70% of ALL power consumed in the US is by industry, about maybe 30% is people and their cars.)
Now solving the new crisis will require pragmatism, like wind and nuclear power. But windmills were just recently protested in the Nantucket Sound and despite having personally lived next to a nuclear power plant (there were no cases of thyroid cancer, but several cases of GI tract cancers caused by industrial solvents poured into the water supply) people don't want this new technology, because every time we rolled it out, people bitch.
Think - the SR-71A flew in late 1965 for the first time. No plane to date (except maybe the Aurora) has topped jet engine in top speed. We've taken that know how and for 30 years did other things with it. All was not lost =).
Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
That's what I hate about airports and airplanes. It's not just the hurry up and wait, it's the stress that the place generates. You're constantly worried about being late or missing something. You have to wait in the lobby so long that you'd like to take a nap, but then the plane will probably board and take off while you're sleeping.
The shinkansen (bullet trains) here in Japan run every 5-15 minutes between Tokyo and Osaka. You can buy a non-reserved seat and get on ANY train. Miss the 9:00 AM train? No problem, get on the 9:10 AM train. No security checks, no lobbys, no boarding passes.
> if you use just a fraction of the amount of power required to levitate the train
> to push a wheeled one instead, the wheeled one goes a damn site faster
Well, the world train speed record is held by a maglev.
361mph beats the wheeled train record of 320mph by quite a margin. Not for the same power or cost, but if that were the be-all-and-end-all, we'd all be cycling.
I'm surprised none of the ODU students have posted about this article. I am local to the maglev train (in Virginia Beach) but DO NOT attend ODU nor have any ties to the project.
The transrapid system in Germany allows public passengers and does 250mph with no issues. Maglev isn't new hat. The system at ODU is different in design, with the guideway aimed at being much lower in cost than the design offered by Transrapid and the like. Basically the guideway is dumb and the train itself contains the logic for stepping the magnets and such. The guideway isn't very large, if you saw it in real life it makes you wonder how wide the actual train is (I haven't seen the train, just the guideway).
The rumors I've heard, but the president of American Maglev wouldn't comment when I emailed them was this: the train worked fine on the test track in Flordia when it was on the ground (it has been demonstrated to move!) but once it was up on the guideway problems hit. Someone told me that what is happening is the rail flexes from the weight of the cars, then the system adjusts for the change in gap between guideway and car, then the change causes the rail to bounce and it enters an oscillation loop..... I know someone that saw it move in Flordia, so it really happened. They just didn't plan on rail flex issues.
The fix is supposidly known, but congress hasn't released the 2 million to them to fix the thing yet. Meanwhile some local companies want payment for services rendered in construction of the stations. Supposidly money is set aside to pay for the entire removal of the project. American Maglev supposidly defaulted on payment in Flordia on their facilities there as well (there are articles on the intarweb from the paper down there casting a negative light on the issue).
American Maglev was trying to sell the Virginia Beach oceanfront resort on the system, but they didn't buy it. It wasn't a hotel or a convention center. Finally years later ODU got involved. While the whole thing smells of Marge versus the Monorail from the Simpsons, really assuming they spent the money properly I would have no gripes against American Maglev.
I personally hope to see it run, but things aren't looking good for American Maglev. If they get this thing moving (which they supposidly have a solution to fix it) then there is the remote hope that our region will become the center of development for the maglev monorail industry.
Also -- if you are in the Hampton Roads area and are a geek, consider joining the HRConnect HR-Geeks mailing list at www.hrconnect.com (under mailing lists).
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