Slashdot Mirror


EU Agrees to Share Airline Passenger Data with US

securitas writes "The European Union has agreed to provide the US government with detailed airline passenger data. The agreement allows the collection of 34 pieces of data per person and limits storage of the data to three and a half years. 'The United States originally wanted to collect 60 pieces of data and keep it for 50 years.' Previously, the EU had objected to the plan because it violated EU privacy legislation, the data-protection directive. The plan is similar to the CAPPS II passenger profiling system. The data may be used for 'secondary purposes' other than anti-terrorism measures if requested from US Customs by other law enforcement agencies."

21 of 49 comments (clear)

  1. I've canceled by US trips by ciaran_o_riordan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I had planned to attend the FSF annual associate members meeting in Boston in March, but have scrapped that plan due to this legislation. I'll use the money to go to the Libre Software Meeting in France, and FOSDEM in Belgium instead. People shouldn't put up with this crap.

    1. Re:I've canceled by US trips by ciaran_o_riordan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeh, this is the problem. Boston is a nice place, and I'd love to go over and meet the FSF folks again. But I just don't like funding the regime.

      It's like buying CDs. You get the music, and 50cent does go to the artist, but 10 dollars/euros is given the the RIAA.

      This was partly explained in the book "Why do people hate America?". (Not a very good book.) To foreigners, America is represented by it's foreign policy, and as a democracy, it's foreign policy is understood to be the will of the people.

      In Belgium I met a guy that also wouldn't go to America, his reason was that every dollar he spent would be paying for an American bullet in a foreign country.

      It's not personal. I don't dislike Americans.

      In a few years time, the EU could be as bad, and I'd understand then if people said they didn't want to come to the EU. But I wouldn't leave the EU, I'll stay and fix it, like I hope Americans will fix America.

  2. Sheesh by the+Man+in+Black · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The data may be used for 'secondary purposes' other than anti-terrorism measures if requested from US Customs by other law enforcement agencies."

    Like McDonald's late-night security guards. Or anyone who whips up some FBI letterhead and sends a fax. You'd be surprised how easily organizations will fling about our beverage selections and hotel porno rentals without a care for our privacy or their sense of morality.

    Can anyone think of any act, any act at all, where a United States citizen is guaranteed privacy by law? Are phone calls with your lawyer and conversations with your psychiatrist still honored, or is that gone too?

    Hm. I wonder if I can get Ted Kennedy's hotel porno rentals. Anyone got a template for FBI letterhead?

    1. Re:Sheesh by the+Man+in+Black · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The right to privacy would be a double-edged sword. I can see corporations claiming right to privacy on business data and the like. I don't think that corporations should be viewed as "citizens" under the law anyway, but that's me.

      I still, however, maintain that a constitutionally guaranteed right to individual privacy (encompassing medical information, all activities in or around a home or residence, purchases and other financial information, and library rentals) would do more good, especially under our current neo-Draconian administration, with it's flagrant disregard for the individual.

      Sorry, that almost turned into a political rant. *goes to get more coffee*

  3. Source of all that data? by cicho · · Score: 3, Funny

    60 pieces of data sounds like a lot. From the article:

    "European officials had balked at the U.S. request to get access to additional information airlines may collect that could reveal more detailed personal data, such as medical conditions and political affiliation."

    This implies that airlines have that information in the first place. Political affiliation? How can they get such information, and why do they? This is a concern even before they start making it available to anyone.

    I voted for my country to join the EU. I would have reconsidered this vote today.

    --
    "Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan
    1. Re:Source of all that data? by Tune · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > How can they get such information, and why do they? This is a concern even before they start making it available to anyone.

      Inaccurate data gathered by sloppy / unlawful means could make US customs using
      the date all the more dangerous.

      --
      To know that you know what you know, and that you do not know what you do not know, that is true wisdom -- Scooby Doo
      [...] as we know, there are known knowns, there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know. -- Donald Rumsfeld
      (Whatever)

    2. Re:Source of all that data? by uradu · · Score: 2, Funny

      > 60 pieces of data sounds like a lot

      What really puzzled them was the request for movie watching and shopping habits.

    3. Re:Source of all that data? by fuzzybunny · · Score: 5, Insightful


      I've read a few articles expounding on this; the point wasn't _just_ that it violates a principle of privacy and sovereignty, but also puts forward the question, "do you realize exactly what kind of data airlines collect on you?"

      Think about it. Dietary habits, travel patterns. Possibly medical history. What else? What do you think ticket agents are writing on those screens you can't see during checkin, when they're frantically typing away? I don't know, do you? The consensus appeared to be that airlines keep some pretty quirky stuff on file about you, including the occasional nasty comment.

      What kind of information do you give away when signing up for frequent flyer programs, including that airline miles credit card? Bang, there go your spending habits.

      Not sure I'm comfortable with Uncle Sam having that as a matter of routine.

      --
      Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
  4. What's new? by Tune · · Score: 5, Insightful


    EU legislation is one thing, but most major European airlines have freely shared ALL passenger info with the US authorities for almost two years, despite questions and objections by various political bodies. The message is clear: If you care about liberty, privacy and those sort of things and you're not an American, than just stay out. Thanks to the 9/11 attacks, the Bush administration now has world-wide carte blance to invade anyone's privacy.
    </Rant>

    --
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable -- John F. Kennedy

    1. Re:What's new? by fuzzybunny · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Good point you make. Unfortunately, that's not entirely an option for a lot of us.

      Bush aside (a lot of this horseshit's been going on for years before he entered the picture--think "war on drugs", "encryption export controls", etc.) there's a long-running problem a lot of Europeans have with the dichotomy of "US the beacon of liberty and progress" and US home of John Ashcroft & his ilk."

      I'm a US-Swiss dual citizen living in Europe--I've seriously considered giving up my US passport due to ideological concerns. I haven't done so, as I have a lot of close family in the US, whom I like to see, and stand to inherit some property. Sort of a conundrum, no?

      Likewise, it's not much of a choice if you live in a country which has something like biometric identification in its passports mandated by the US departmen of . What if I never wanted to enter the US, but maybe decided to head over to France for the weekend? Tough cookies, please place your retina here.

      --
      Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
    2. Re:What's new? by misterpies · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Firstly, what's crime to do with it. It's not a crime to be a communist, but they won't let a foreigner into the US if they have been. Now they'll be able to screen out anyone who fits into their perceived profile of a threat. You're a vegetarian and a member of Greenpeace? Must be one of those anti-capitalist protesters.

      Second, you don't know what's going to be a crime in the future. One day you're donating to a Pakistani religious charity, the next day you're supporting terrorism. The law ain't static.

      --
      The author of this post asserts his moral rights.
  5. well that's all lovely but... by cassidyc · · Score: 3, Informative

    doesn`t stop anyone from blowing up the plane in mid flight.

    Still, at least they'll have all the details of the deceased.

    More liberties given up for the illusion of greater security

    CJC

    1. Re:well that's all lovely but... by Alsee · · Score: 2, Funny

      doesn`t stop anyone from blowing up the plane in mid flight.
      Still, at least they'll have all the details of the deceased.


      Soon to be overheard at a crash cleanup and analysis site:

      Worker 1: Man, they were ripped to shreds. The peices are so small we haven't been able to match up a single identification yet.
      Worker 2: Yeah. About the biggest peice we've found is a weiner wearing a glow-in-the-dark condom, heh.
      Worker 1: Wait a minute, did you say wearing a glow-in-the-dark condom?
      Worker 2: Yeah, a real pisser, huh? [laughs]
      Worker 1: [shuffles pages of passenger info]
      Worker 1: YO ROB! OVER HERE! WE'VE IDENTIFIED ONE!

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  6. well by sofar · · Score: 4, Interesting


    Do we European get the US data too then ??????

  7. My experience by ciaran_o_riordan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I stopped visiting US last year .. It's just too much of a hassle with their "Patriot Act" and all the privacy invasions.

    I went to Boston in march 2003. There were four check points between the plane and the outside of the airport. At the second checkpoint, the security guy ran out of forms for me to fill out so he let me pass without filling in a form.

    When I got to the next checkpoint, I was taken aside by two cops and asked loads of questions because I didn't have the form from the previous checkpoint. Clearly I was a good candidate for terrorism. The questions were pointlessly invasive (my job, my annual wage!, my country of origin, any family in the US, etc.). I didn't mind giving the answers (I could have lied), but it was such a stupid process.

    What conclusions could they possibly draw from my verbal answer to "What is your annual income?". I'm sure Bin Laden would really be caught out by that one :-)

    1. Re:My experience by apatrick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is my understanding that the purpose of questions like "your job" and "your annual wage" and "any family in the US" is to determine your likelihood of LEAVING the US. That is, the screening is to prevent illegal immigration, and to not search for terrorists per se.

    2. Re:My experience by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What conclusions could they possibly draw from my verbal answer to "What is your annual income?".

      They don't care about your actual income. They're just looking for a range, and if you can give a valid answer.

      For instance, a Turk comes to the US, purporting to be an American, and is asked his job and his annual income.
      He might hem and haw for a few seconds doing the conversion in his head (strike 1)
      And he may well be off by a factor of 10 or 100.

      "Job?"
      "computer programmer"
      "annual income?"
      [let's see...in Turkey, that's 57,000,000,000 lira - in US$ that's...] "4,000!"(strike 2)

      "Right, buddy...lets go."
      57 billion TRL is ~$40,000

  8. Greetings from Airstrip One by cattlepr0d · · Score: 4, Informative

    We have this, too.

    The US and UK governments: bringing freedom and democracy to the world.

    --
    R Tape loading error, 0:1
  9. And does anyone seriously believe by gillbates · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That the US will delete this data when the three years are over? More likely, it will be "removed" from one database only to go into another more classified database at the NSA or FBI.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
  10. welcome to the land of the free by MadMirko · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... with "free" of course meaning that authorities freely access any information about anyone.

    Don't think that only data from non-americans is collected, it is data from anyone coming in via an European airline.

    It's disappointing to see that the American public doesn't give a damn, and even more that the European Parliament is likely to give in to another US bullying.

  11. My last flight was my last flight by bitty · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It was our honeymoon to Hawaii, so there wasn't much choice there. We drive everywhere now, the hassle and total invasion of our privacy just isn't worth it. In one airport, they even had me put one foot on this "detector", that for all I know did absolutely nothing. It was just a box with an opaque piece of white plexiglass with the outline of a foot that said "place foot here". No wires coming out of it at all, and it didn't appear to be plugged in. The security guy just watched me do it and said thank you. My wife and I were both pulled aside and searched twice each way by very rude people that seemed more interested in our undergarments than actually looking for anything dangerous.

    Screw 'em. I'll spend my money elsewhere.