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City Of Austin Migrating To OpenOffice.org
An anonymous reader writes "NewsForge.com has a story up this morning about the City of Austin and the results of their pilot program on OpenOffice.org. The bottom line is this: they have found that more than 80% of the city's 5K desktops can use OO.o instead of MS Office. Let the migrations begin!"
Will this really help out OO or will it simply be an anomoly
Especially as the good people over at OO.o keep improving their software. I myself gave OO another look when 1.1 came out. Impressed is not the word. It removed any and all complaints I had about the software from the pre-1.0 and 1.0 versions. I actually PREFER it to the Office suite now, and I use it on my Powerbook, Windows partition, and Linux machine.
This is definitely one of those cases where an open source product is obviously of greater value than it's commercial counterpart, both financially and from a quality standpoint.
Keep up the good work, OO.o!
El riesgo vive siempre!
Microsoft is very Redmond-centric. They do almost all their development there. They did open development shops overseas (after successfully and heavily lobbying for a massive increase in H1-B guest workers quotas). Perhaps this is the leverage American cities need to force Microsoft to open development shops in their city. Why pay Microsoft so much when all the money's going to Bill Gates' mansion in Seattle?
One can only hope this catches on in larger scale!!
Stop corporate
I think the editors just got taken for a ride. The story links to an article on NewsForge (yeah, I beat they're unbiased and trustworthy...) which only has a few short paragraphs about someone who heard some rumor about the city switching to OO.o. There is a link to the Austin LUG website, but clicking that only takes you to the front page. You can't even search the mailing list arhcives for the original message because they've taken them offline! I for one don't believe this for a minute, there is no concrete proof of the city switching platforms. Just some obscure Linux zealot ramblings posted prematurely. Until I see a credible news source (I mean like USA Today, CNN, or even the Austin Times) cover this story with something more than just OO.o fanboy ravings I won't believe this. This story is FUD. FUD FUD FUD.
So what is this one application that requires ms office, "Austin tell us what it is and let us fix it for you"
Got Code?
Seems to me that OO reading and writing .ms formats would have MS all over them for DMCA or other IP issues. Has any hay been made over this?
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
I tried to tell a group of people-in-charge of local educational institutions how they could get away from Microsoft in this way...to a person, they were all very uninterested. It's not just a chicken-and-egg problem, it's the sad fact that nobody gets fired for lining up for the "Office Suite." I've used OpenOffice to great effect in my district, but I'm the only one I know of. What needs to change is that people need to start getting fired for NOT using OpenOffice...after all, with all of the budget problems all of the schools are having, switching to a "Free" product is the sensible thing to do. None of the schools I know of are sensible though.
I've shied away from earlier OO releases but have been very satisfied with the 1.1 release. I've been offering Open Office.org 1.1 to my clients as a cost effective alternative to MS Office and have gotten very positive feedback so far.
The article fails to attest that by switching to OpenOffice.org (free/open-source software), Austin City can save a lot of tax-money per desktop by switching. Average license costs for Microsoft Office Small Business is US$239 on government contracts. Working for a city government, I can attest that the tax dollars normally spent on office software are desprately needed in other areas. I applaud Austin City for setting this example and will be showing the article to my supervisor so I can make the case of switching.
I am glad to hear that OpenOffice is gaining more ground. I firmly believe OpenOffice will over take MS Office in the near future.
m l
If you haven't already check out the development section of their web site:
http://development.openoffice.org/index.ht
I am really amazed with the level of documentation, add on's, scripts/macros, and integration with other languages.
>Someone in Texass that has brains?
Most people in Austin moved there from other places in the 1980's. Most of the natives
got disgusted and left.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
"He also pointed out that not everyone can be converted just yet because of a single application (the City Council's Agenda Management System) requires MS Office to run."
If an single application requires MS Office to run, I bet its Access-based. I think once more applications are converted from Access to SQL, you'll have more conversions from MS Office to OO.
-- ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space!
It does however nicely fill that niche of popping a word-processor onto a system. Currently filled by MS Works.
I'm surprised OEMs haven't started loading it by default(unless office is specified), apart from some speed issues, it does just about everything a typical home user needs.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
You know the meaning of FUD, right? Just because something is wrong OR unverified, doesn't make it FUD.
Mod point free since 2001
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Austin is a great place for geeks. We get all sorts of nice perks. For example, we have movie theater which not only serves beer, but also has had open 802.11b access for a long time.
The government also has pockets of very tech-savvy people, but they are often hampered by a lack of support. A current canidate for state representative Mark Strama is pretty "with it" technology-wise. (Founded NewVoter.com which was the first online voter registration in the US, and whose tech resulted in over 700K voter registrations in 2000.) Strama really wants to leverage new technology and open source where possible in his campaign, but hasn't had a lot of luck finding a full time technicial manager to oversee things.
Moving groups of non-technicial people to a new product (be it OpenOffice, Linux, or anything) requires some sort of on site advocate. The key to transition is having a knowledgable support person to make the technology "just work" as opposed to leaving the user to struggle on his or her own.
If you're interested in seeing open source succeed, consider helping out your local canidate use it in his or her race. Teach the leaders, the people will follow.
I would not be so certain that this is simply an Access migration issue, although it might be.
First the disclaimer: I hate M$. I've moved myself to the Apple platform, I run a Linux server at home, I almost never use my Windows machine.
But I've been in many clients' offices where I was about to save hundreds of man-hours where clerical people did repetitive tasks by writing a quick VBA application. I've also seen specialized applications (in particular, I have intimate exposure to one used in most non-profit organizations) built completely from the Windows COM/ActiveX architecture, and these apps integrate really nicely with Office in a way that OpenOffice would have to have strong COM integration to compete. (It may, I haven't looked recently.)
I felt bad writing these apps because I knew I was helping to entrench these clients in their Windows world, but when they are running on a shoestring budget (and non-profits get KILLER cheap deals with M$ software) if I can help cut an office's labor by 10% or more, I think I'm morally obligated to do so.
One last point: last time I gave OpenOffice a spin on Windows, it seemed to have a cool feature-set, but anything approaching a complex 100+ page document caused application crashes. I haven't seen Office crash since 2000.
For the most part, I'd say it's not a question of "if" but "when". But "when" might not be today.
Murray Todd Williams
Now, I do a lot of IT work, seeing as it's my job. One thing I've found more often than not is that people DON'T like to change whatever it is they're used to.
So, if everyone has been using Office for the last 10 years, they aren't going to want to try anything new, irregardless of the benefits of said change.
When this is the case, I find that users will suddenly get stupider. As dumb as they were before, and as clueless as they were before, they are now clueless with a purpose. That purpose? To make you regret making them change their desktop. Suddenly many will be looking for reasons to have things not work. The simplest of these being folks who think something doesn't work at all now, just because it doesn't work exactly like it used to. Others being the type who actively search for weak areas in the software so they can bitch about the lack of some arcane/unused feature that used to be available.
So, the solution to all this? Cut 'em a check. That's right, instead of just switching them over and telling them it's for the good of XYZ, figure out how much money you'll save to switch over to Open Office. Then take about 70% of your savings the first year and cut a check to be split up amongst your users. I would think that if everyone got a $100 in cash on the day you put Open Office on their machines, suddenly the guy installing OO around the office would be getting calls left and right by people who can't wait to get updated, vs. the grumblind you'd otherwise face.
After the first year you're still saving a bundle, everyone is used to OO, and the County can pocket the savings, all with a lot less headache.
I would guess that Dell is probably the largest private employer in Austin. Granted, they're technically in Round Rock. IBM has a relatively small campus in Austin, even after acquiring Tivoli. And as far as AMD goes, Intel also has an office there as well.
My guess is another reason, if not more likely, is The University of Texas. The UT CS department is a pretty open source heavy department. The rest of the university, other than the business school, is pretty apathetic to Microsoft. I would guess that people making these decisions in Austin are either influenced by, educated by, or former employees of the university.
Overall though, Austin is a pretty tech centric city. So, at least to me, who lived there for a number of years, this isn't really that much of a surprise.
Can anybody tell me why the OO team decided not to use the Win-Print.api that MS has available in the SDK?
I work for a printer company and I would _LOVE_ to use and show OO in our showroom but OO does not allow access to the WIN-print.api (therefore not allowing us to use the extra features/functionality that our devices offer).
OO is great if you have a 1-tray laser/inkjet printer. I could convert our office (and probably our corporation (still using Office97)), and my customers; by showing the cost savings that OO will provide, but dammit the drivers don't work.
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
I guess I see a lot of experimentation going on and it's not really a surprise to see a gov agency switching over. It will save them millions. This is only news because it's one of the first. Always thought Austin was a very cool town. Sort of out of place in Texas.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
As a copy of the e-mail has now been posted, thereby confirming the story, I would encourage people to moderate the parent posting accordingly.
When exactly did the Gannett owned, Reuters dominated USA Today become a credible news source? Or CNN, notorious for parroting the positions of those with vested interests without even bothering to check if it makes sense or contradicts earlier statements? All of the mentioned periodicals are tertiary news sources... They rely upon other people who have seen the news, and are willing to talk about it. USA Today is arguably a quadiary news source, as it just recycles tertiary articles from other sources. The e-mail posted from the initiator of this project is a primary news source, and an article posted by someone who has seen this e-mail is a secondary news source. Primary and secondary news sources, while necessarily less well known as they do not focus on the dissemination of news, are a far more accurate source of information than those who re-release pre-digested data.
You just got the best news source you could hope to get, and you complained because it wasn't USA Today.
The ______ Agenda
He also pointed out that not everyone can be converted yet because of one application (the City Council's Agenda Management System) that requires MS Office to run.
I'm sure it could be run on a cheaper and more open system that didn't require M$ applications to run it. MySQL/PHP or FileMaker would both be good database apps to use.
The web should be platform and application independent, even for management systems, but Bill's insistance on Microsoft products on both the client and sever sides will only limit the use of his products, not expand his market share.
And when will Open Office be available for OS X? I know they have one for X-11, but changing GUI interfaces everytime I need to type something is too much trouble.
...declared a university-wide preference for nonproprietary file standards for school assignments
:-) (well, they can also use Adobe Acrobat, but most don't seem to have that)
While teaching any classes (at brooklyn college), for assignments that are electronically submitted, I specifically say that MS Word format is not allowed. (I run Linux - so Word docs would look ugly when viewed in OO.o)
Students have a choice of either: submitting it in plain text (most do, but some can't live without the formatting), or PDF docs. They can either create PDFs via LaTeX (my preferred method) or (now) exporting from OpenOffice
Slowly but surely, every semester, I get a few people to install OpenOffice on their system (and many seem to like it quite a bit).
"If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy
The article mentions one application that (currently) requires MS Office, there may be others.
The thing is, migrating the easy 80% gives OOo the dominant desktop position. Certainly any new apps will be written to be OOo-friendly, and there will be pressure to port the old ones. I'm sure they have their IT people looking at what it'd take to do that. Might be an opportunity there for developers or companies in the Austin area with migration/porting experience.
-- Alastair
Killer Application.
It's odd that that such an old Office Suite that was struggling so hard comes to be such a success years later. And that the reason it does is so mundane does make me wonder even more: It simply offers the very same (or even better) performance that an established competition and is dirt cheap. Free as in beer, actually.
Coming to think of it, that actually isn't a bad reason to become a Killer Application.
What I really find astounding is that Open Office actually tries to emulate MS Office and thus isn't half as intuitive and performant as Lotus Smart Suite, imho.
Anyway: OO.o combined with the new KDE 3.2 is the next big step in toppling a monopoly. I expect Linux to reach critical mass in germany any time soon (within the next 12 months or so).
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I still have some conversion issues (the WP doesn't like MS's superscripts or subscripts much and embedded graphics generally don't work on conversion from MS). Also, I think the graphing/charting in the spreadsheet is ugly as can be, and they could do with separating the poducts out to make the whole thing lighter. But it's getting there. It's more stable (though that's not to say very stable), and I really like its equation editor.
That said, it's still not for situations where people need to be able to open complex, microsoft-formatted documents, particularly those with graphics and formulae embedded.
However, I'm sure it's fine for the city of Austin, as bureaucrats could get by with typewriters, I expect.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
The call for papers for our philosophy journal asked for LaTeX format as first preference, .doc as a second preference.
IAALS.
Austin isn't the only place moving to OpenOffice. We completed about 2 months of conversion last Friday, and now the entire City is running OpenOffice software on Linux. There are a few pockets of of users finishing up their projects on WordPerfect, Excel and Powerpoint but 99% of them are converted and live on OO. That is about 100 concurrent users in OO at a time on one big server, and about 600 total users...all on thin clients.
:P That works nicely doesn't it?
The comments about users not liking change is true, and it's true that they complain no matter what you do---even upgrades of the same product.
We got word of a location that moved to OO on Win32, and they had a brilliant idea. OpenOffice was provided to them for use for free, if they wanted to continue to use Office they had to *buy their own copy* (~$399 payroll deduction + upgrades + support costs).
Dave Richards
City of Largo, Florida
drichard@largo.com
Are you *sure* this is a local government agency?
No worries there. Austin was recently blackmailed into a multiyear contract with microsoft which perpetually and only expands in which they will pay for multiple Windows and MSOffice licenses for more desktops than they actually have. So the waste is there, it will be that they will be not only paying for more copies of office than they could possibly physically use, but they will not actually be using Office. Woohoo government! :)