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Indian Robot Will Capture Space Debris
CowboyRobot writes "India is set to launch the 'Space Robot', which, controlled from Earth, will capture damaged satellites and space debris. This seems a less ambitious, and more immediately practical venture than the current Mars missions."
We are the space robots.
We are here to protect you.
We are here to protect you from the terrible secret of space.
Space has a terrible power.
Do you have stairs in your house?
Somehow I doubt that the US didn't have the robotic technology... I imagine a seasons worth of battlebots constructors could handle this task.
In fact, that confirms it. I think any of the spinner bots would work...
Sig under construction since 1998.
So, it's going to be the garbageman of space? At least they can upgrade their tech...
The 'Space Robot' (SR), with an in-built 'RUDAC' communication signal processor, will be used to capture damaged satellites and space debris from crashing to Earth, CSRDC-CSRL and ISRDO Director Dr M Sreedhar Dayal told UNI.
Putting aside the poor translation, it's clear that the article's writer doesn't have much of a scientific background. Unless you're talking about a mass comparable to the Compton Gamma Ray Observatory or perhaps the Hubble, there's not much need to prevent debris from "crashing into the earth". 100,000 feet of atmosphere does a fine job by itself, and puts on a great light show to boot.
The obvious benefit of this space scoop is to clear NEO of the sort of debris that occasionally causes the ISS and the Shuttle to take evasive maneuvers from time to time.
But I know what I'd be interested in, if I were a developing nation with orbital capability. The space around Earth is turning into the next big salvage yard, especially if the costs of this mission are comparable to a high-profile terrestrial salvage operation. What better way to find out what other nations have been doing in the space above your country, than to grab a few samples of their equipment?
It's even better than a earthbound salvage operation, because there's no weathering beyond radiation and collisions with other pieces of debris. A defunct spy satellite would be in as good a condition now as it was the day it entered orbit, especially in terms of reverse-engineering. The chips may have a few bits shorted out, but the circuit boards, wiring harnesses, optics, propulsion systems, and so on could hold a trove of information.
And there's one thing I'm dying to do -- buy space knicknacks. NASA and the Russians could probably fund a significant space program by simply selling off that ton or so of "trash" brought back by each shuttle mission or burnt up in the used Progress craft. If India can bring back space nuts, old thruster bells, and the like, they could make a killing on eBay!
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
There's a theory that if there's enough space-junk that you could develope a chain reaction where one peice of junk shatters another, and really quickly you end up with a bunch of miniscule but deadly debris that will make space exploration almost impossible.
Thanks India!
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
It's nice to think of this as practical from the perspective of cleaning up space debris, but the real point of this is almost certainly for India to show that they have the ability to take out sattelites they don't like, much like the early Soviet and American sub-orbital flights and sattelite launches were demonstrations that we could drop explosive devices on each other from halfway around the world. Don't assume that something this complex and costly is being done out of the kindness of the Indian government's heard, or for the good of humanity when there's an obvious military benefit; especially considering their current cold war with Pakistan, and the technological escilation in China.
I suppose this robot replaced an American robot for a 10th the price and does the job a 10th as well?
(This is a jab at American companies who show no loyalty to their country while demanding it from their workers, not a jab a India. Who's food I absolutely love... MMMmmmm curry. Just in case anyone wants to get up in arms about it.)
I, for one, welcome our new Native American spaceborne robot overlords.
When they inevitably decide that the Earth itself is just some more space debris to be cleared, I hope they can find it in their merciful hearts to employ loyal broadcasters in their wampum-mines overseeing the slaves.
Ion engines would be well suited to this application. Their high specific impulse means they could have the fuel reserves needed to change orbits multiple times to catch debris. Solar power, instead of a nuclear power source, could provide the electricity to run the engine.
Hmmm... figuring out the optimal set of manuveurs to catch a set of debris objects that are all in different orbits would be very tricky. I guess that would have to be called the Traveling Spaceman Problem.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
What OS will it run on?
The opposite of progress is congress
"(This is a jab at American companies who show no loyalty to their country while demanding it from their workers,"
There's nothing wrong with hiring a worker who can do the job better, even if they are a "Dang dirty furriner'"
This sounds like a precursor to Planet-es. It's a very well written anime (even from a Hard Sci-fi POV)
when this thing starts adding to itself ala Voltron from the debris it picks up. Yes, I think I'm imagining a Beowulf cluster of space junk, siphoning fuel and parts from other dead or rogue satellites. Of course the question then is when will this 'Skynet' cluster achieve self-awareness?
Arrogance is Confidence which lacks integrity. -- me
Hyderabad, Dec 14.(UNI): In another step forward for the Indian space programme, the country is all set to launch its first "Space Robot". The 'Space Robot' (SR), with an in-built 'RUDAC' communication signal processor, will be used to capture damaged satellites and space debris from crashing to Earth, CSRDC-CSRL and ISRDO Director Dr M Sreedhar Dayal told UNI. Signals could be sent from an Earth station to make the Robot, built with a space control system, perform various tasks. The SR will use solar energy to activate its 'wrist' movement and to navigate through space. The launch would be done simultaneously along with one of the five satellites being developed by the three R and D institutions CSRDC (Communication Services Research and Development Centre), CSRL (Communication and Space Research Labs) and ISRDO (Indian Satellite Research and Development Organisation). Space Robot marks a significant step in the country's Space programme. While Japan had very advanced Robotic Technology, it lacked the launch vehicle capability. On the other hand the United States had a very advanced Space programme but did not possess Robotic technology, Dr Dayal added. Besides, the "trinity" are also working on the "Spatial Computer" capable of performing huge astronomical calculations in seconds. Equipped with the very high speed nanoprocessors and Ultra-Large Scale Integrator (ULSI) and Giga Large Scale Integrator (GLSI) chips, the computer would be networked with 300 mainframe machines to carry out various applications. The cost of the project, including the development of the Indian Irdium Satellite, Indian Spy Satellite, Indian ELINT Satellite and Indian Bio Satellite, is estimated at Rs 50 crore, of which ten per cent would be organisational contribution of the three institutions. A five-member Members of Parliament committee will be constituted for effective and proper management of funds, he added.
If the robot could capture the debris, and put it all in some kind of framework, a 'junk warehouse' if you will.. It could be a fantastic way to aquire raw material in orbit without having to pay much of the shipping cost.
for those who are not familiar with the rupee..
50cr Rupees ~ 11 Mil $
What's 50 cr
I don't know, it just all sounds a little weird. It imagine it's a technology test mission and all that, but I can't help but imagine their mission control rejoicing on a capture of some debris, when suddenly from the back of the room someone says "So, what do we do with the debris now that we have it?" The reply: "Why, we let it go again! We can grab and release stuff forever through the magic of solar power!"
There's no mention of fuel reserves to make some attempt to relocate object, repair them, etc. Just weird.
Maybe it is worth comparing the design of this robot to the Indian one. It was discussed in this slashdot thread entitled Inspection Microsat Tested In Orbit.
There is a *lot* of crap out there. I has occured to me of a way to do something about it. Im thinking a space mirror, this would be put in earth orbit, it would reflect sunlight tangentially in earth orbit, this would heat up the smaller thing like paint bits and shards of meta and put them lower into the atmosphere and cause them to deorbit and burnup.
spanner n.
1. A wrench having a hook, hole, or pin at the end for meshing with a related device on another object.
2. Chiefly British. A wrench.
nah seemz they will rather use the BrahMos four times faster....10 times cheaper.....simple
....after all these people love collecting and recycling old junk.
Hmmm... Now that Ronald Moore is done with the Battlestar Galactica reimagining, maybe he can turn his mind to this forgotten classic sci-fi of the '70's... Imagine what he could do with Betty I and Betty II...
I have been reading articles lately describing how some outsourced (whether to India or elsewhere) programming projects have been disasters, due to the crap quality of the product.
BTW, don't rag on garbage collectors.
They perform an important function in our society.
If you had to choose between going without movies/TV for a year and going without garbage collection for a year, which would you choose?
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
Leave the wall up for a couple of days, to make sure that you get everything.
Outsourcing out of the country has never resulted in a job being done better"
.....yeah right, Indian is just a big mud pile.
If you have the same job being done for a lower cost, the job is being done better.
"I want to know when "Free Trade" is going to include labor costs"
It does.
"Why aren't the teamsters and the UAW working to organize labor in other countries?"
They are dealing with money problems as they are rather unpopular in the U.S. (and only have large memberships due to regulations that force workers to join).
"Either "they" have to get paid more "
No, let them be paid for the real value of the work.
"living 12 to a mud hut and living off of $1.50 a month."
"You forgot to preface your sentence with, "In theory"."
No, that is how it works. In reality.
"In reality, you are sending money (personal wealth and tax revenue) out-of-country PERMANENTLY"
It's a trade of goods/services/etc like any other. When you buy coffee from Brazil, you send the money out PERMANENTLY, but you get something of equal value back in return.
"Offshoring is perhaps one of the most short-sighted things big business has dreamed up in the past fifty years or so"
There is nothing short-sighted about it, just like there is nothing short-sighted about buying coffee from Brazil.
"truly major continent-spanning wars to remind them of WHY it's valuable to show a little enthusiasm for the strip if dirt you live on."
It is not valuable to behave like Nazis and discriminate against workers who can do the job better just because the workers are foreign.
A couple of posts (#1 and #2 ) rightly point out that ion engines are low-thrust devices. They suggest that because debris capture requires lots of manueverability, that more conventional engines might be better. But this is where I disagree and argue that in the long run, an ion engine's greater specific impulse actually provides more total manueverability than any chemical rocket.
Yes, a chemical rocket lets you change orbits very quickly -- zipping from orbit to orbit to catch debris. Yet the total number of orbit changes would be very limited if you use a chemical thruster-- an ion engine would provide at least 10-20 times the total delta-V. That difference translates into 10-20 times the number of orbit changes and debris particles captured by a single garbage collecting satellite.
Yes, a chemical rocket would let you get to the debris quickly, but is this really needed? Most of the dangerous debris is in higher LEO, stable orbits in which the junk is likely to stay in orbit for years, if not millenia. Small particles in low orbits tend to decay quickly and fall harmlessly into the atmosphere. Concerns about falling larger satellites are known years in advance -- orbit decays are not unpredictable (although space weather can shift the timing of the end). With the high predictability of orbits, it does not matter if it takes months (or a years) for the debris collector to eventually visit all the debris it is supposed to collect.
My point is that an ion engine on a debris collector would be superior. Ion engines may not thrust as powerfully as chemical rockets, but they can thrust for much longer periods of time. In many space applications, all that matters is delta-V. Whether it takes a 10-second burn of a chemical rocket or a 1 million second burn of an ion engine is irrelevant in most cases. Slow and steady wins the race.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Also, how will the satellite "catch" its targets?You can't just step on the accelerator to catch up to something, because increasing your orbital velocity increases your altitude. To go "up", you have to accelerate forward, to go "down", you have to accelerate backward, and I still don't fully understand what happens when you accelerate in some direction outside your orbital path!
You sum the vectors of the current velocity and the delta v (that is, change in velocity caused by thrust), and the new vector shows what the spacecraft will be doing after a burn. They don't have to be orthagonal. (This is for conventional propulsion, which uses quick bursts of thrust, instead of the continual thrust of an ion engine. The same fundamental relationship applies to constant thrust trajectories, but the math for ion engines is nastier, and ties up fast computers for many hours.)
The thing to remember is, more velocity = more energy = higher orbit. Cancelling velocity by applying a velocity vector antiparallel to a spacecraft's current vector (tangent to the orbital path at any given instant) will decrease the KE of the spacecraft, moving it to a lower-energy orbit, and vice versa. That is the most efficient way to apply thrust, but sometimes the positioning of the engines is such that the thrust has both parallel and orthagonal components, and the orthagonal component is essentially wasted, not contributing to the useful delta v.
So to catch something in orbit, you study the orbit of the satellite you want to catch. Then, you plan to apply the thrust so that your orbit and its orbit will intersect at some point in the future. This is how spacecraft get to places like Mars. The mission designers take into account the motion of Earth and Mars around the Sun, then aim the craft at that specific point in empty space where Mars will be when the spacecraft makes it out to that distance from the Sun.
When you apply thrust outside the orbital path in that pesky third dimension that I didn't mention earlier, it results in an inclination change, that is, a change in the angle of the orbital path with respect to the equator. An orbit at 0 deg is in the same plane as the equator. An orbit at 5 deg is "tipped." Plane changes are expensive in terms of fuel, and it's usually best to do them during launch, at the lowest possible altitude.
All this is facinating, but boy, does it make my head spin...
Hee. Was that an orbit joke? Anyway, now you know how I feel about programming more complicated than FORTRAN DO loops.
-Carolyn
Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
They are not cleaning up, they are getting additional funding by gathering the stuff and will sell it on e-bay!
I can see it now:
Buyer will pay for shipping.
First they outsource software development to India, now they outsource space-debris cleanup...
Towards the Singularity.
But the fact is, when all of your brainpower is offshore
If your country is so dumb that everyone in another country is smarter than you are...
The thinking is all short-term: cut jobs to pump up profits
There is nothing short-term about hiring better workers. It is an excellent long-term strategy.
The reason there is a minimum wage is because some politicians feel they can get votes by saying "let's give everyone a wage, no matter what the real cost".
The real cost is wiping out huge numbers of jobs that teenagers could be employed at, filling the streets with idle youth. The real cost is thousands of low-wage workers fired from their jobs because the minimum wage forces the company to. This is somthing that needs to be eliminated. The real cost is increased automation and "doing without", and resulting inflation and reduced services.
(If you want to see a 100% robot McDonald's, go ahead and boost the minimum age).
Cost of living is very arbitrary, and varies wildly depending on someone's living situation, or where they live.
Workers in India tend to be paid the value of their work: no more and no less. This is how it should be.
Here is my non-reply: the government should butt out of these private economic transactions between consenting adults. If you don't like people from India, stay away from them.
"You brought India into this, not me.
The guy who started this news item brought India into it. I'm "on topic" at least.
"It has nothing to do with liking or not liking people from India. Which makes the third time you've totally missed the point"/I.
Perhaps because the point is invalid. If you don't want to deal with India, don't deal with them. If it is in a company's interest to hire foreign workers who happen to do certain jobs better, it is none of your business.
The stats show that the amount paid by the corporations greatly exceeds the amount of corporate welfare by many magnitudes.
Try again. The information on that political (not factual) site is rather cooked. They did not even present actual corporate welfare totals. To make the numbers higher than they actually are, they added tax breaks.
Sorry, tax breaks are NOT welfare. Since when is it "Welfare" to not steal as much from someone?
I agree that corporate welfare is a bad thing. However, I apply this only to actual corporate welfare, not to instances of letting people do what they want with the money they earned.
The IIT Kharagpur is giving practical lessons in electronics and robotics to the childrens residing in the villages in India. These robots are very simplistic in nature and may not be so "high-tech" but is empowering the Indian Kids and finding the "real world" application and not mere fun or educational project.The program is called Build Robots Create Science BRiCS
I know that sentiments have arisen against India and rest of the developing nations, because till now they were considered 'lowly' due to their track record in Manufacturing sector but suddenly they are showing competition in the Services Sector. Anybody loosing jobs would feel the same and anybody would sure turn to be protectionist. This has been happening from a long time in every country. But the idea of open and free markets has not been invented by the developing nations, that was an expoitative idea of the developed nations now their very own discovery hurts. Believe me it's no fun here also, seeing the traditional knowledge getting patented. America, Japan, Europian Countries are not puritans, we have all exploited others when we have got a chance.
But to make the matter simple, to prove ourselves mighty we don't need to ridicule and insult others. It would be a very very political, sentimental and stupid statement that the developed nations don't get anything back from them.
Just the telecom sector from India alone gives millions worth of contracts to CISCOs, NORTELs, ALCATELs, LUCENTs and many more of the developed worlds. Companies like Samsung, Sony, LG are happy to see their sales reports every day. The GMs, TOYOTAs, SKODAs, FORDs are seeing such a great response that they are planning to set up the manufactiring hub to cover these developing nations. MacDonals, Dominos, Pizaa Huts are crowded and every big retail chain company wants to set up base in these countries. The tourism industry is exited to see the upswing and luxury and speciality spas are increasing their counts. Adidas, Nike, Reebok for your information don't sound foreign brands now.
Your comments seems to be more emmotional than an educated comments. I don't know how you have reached to the conclusion that there is no economic integration. For your information a developing nation like India invests more in developed nations like UK and not vice-a-versa.
You say that quality is not good, if that is true then I think MNCs like Microsoft, Cisco, Alcatel, Nortel, Texas , etc. should be given a lesson in quality as they have development centers and R&D hub set up in India. Is that just for qualityless labour or quality IP (Intellectual Property). I agree, there might be some exceptions, but mind it those are the exceptions.
Why do you think that Malaysian worker can't buy a mighty Adidas. Are you aware that some of the devoped nations are the most exiting markets from FMCG to Luxury Goods and Services. Please open any good magazine and newspapers, you will not only find Adidas, but Toyota, GMs, Armani, Gucci and whatever you can think of.
We don't need to reinvent us somewhere else. Restart your thinking process. Remember the Sun Rises in the East. Please click here for enlightment
So dear lets not fight, if we wanna play the game lets opt for a level playing field. If you are superpowers of this world that does not mean that you can just exploit other like anything and cry and howl when face the competition from other side. How many of you have raised any question to your Political Leaders when big multinationals play dirty games and exploit third world countires.
First learn and try to become the free global citizens and nations of the world, till then stop preaching about free and global trade.
Quality is down, there is no question about it. Business Week ran an article on the topic only a few months ago. Forbes had one recently, too. The point is not quality, that is rhetoric used to justify what they're doing. The sole point is to drive down cost. It's a slash-and-burn tactic being used by corporate executives who only hang around long enough to take a juicy salary while the stock is still high.
Frankly, I also don't give a damn when my own country's companies exploit third world nations, and I don't mind a fight. That's fine, as long as their actions benefit us. Take your "free global citizens" crap and stick it where the sun doesn't rise. I truly do not care. We didn't get to be a superpower by kissing ass, but that sure as hell is dragging us back into European-grade medocrity.
Finally -- investment is not synonymous with reciprocal trade. I want them buying products we make here. There is a major difference, and if you don't understand it, we have reached an impasse.
Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005