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Take Two/Rockstar Reveals Plans, Designer Sues Over GTA

Posted by simoniker on from the very-unlikely dept.

Thanks to Yahoo for reprinting the latest financial results of videogame publisher Take Two/Rockstar, including much information on new titles and plans. The company has announced Red Dead Revolver, "a stylish, western themed, gun-fighting extravaganza" for PS2/Xbox which was originally created for Capcom before developers Angel Studios became Rockstar San Diego and the project was handed over. Also noted is the "expected March release of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City... in Japan", after the licensed-to-Capcom GTA 3 "has sold approximately 300,000 copies... making it one of the most successful debuts of a Western video game in Japan." The company also announced the return of the Army Men franchise on their budget Global Star label, following the dissolution of creator 3DO earlier this year. However, there are also a few issues, as the SEC are unhappy with previous financial dealings, and "plan to recommend civil action against the company for alleged accounting violations", and elsewhere, a Scottish game designer has filed a suit claiming he, uncredited, inspired the design of the Grand Theft Auto series.

18 of 83 comments (clear)

  1. so.. by The+Other+White+Boy · · Score: 2, Funny

    ..the guy invented the concept of warring street gangs? i guess then its only fair that the filmmakers from The Warriors sue him for prior art. =)

  2. Just what the gaming community needs... by -kertrats- · · Score: 3, Funny

    More Army Men games. Perfect.

    --
    The Braying and Neighing of Barnyard Animals Follows.
  3. Carmack suing all FPS developers... by Numeric · · Score: 3, Funny

    Carmack said: "All your FPS Belong to Me"

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    -- ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space!
    1. Re:Carmack suing all FPS developers... by ameoba · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Umm... GTA is a THIRD PERSON game; nowhere in the article was a FPS even mentioned.

      --
      my sig's at the bottom of the page.
  4. Why does the Cube get screwed? by Gizzmonic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Even if Rockstar doesn't want to bother with the costs associated with porting and publishing, why don't they sell the code to someone else? It would make money among those of us who don't want to fork out several hundred dollars in the form of a new console, new controllers, memory cards, etc just to play GTA.

    Forget that "it's not financially viable" bullshit. GTA would make money. Tony Hawk made money on the Dreamcast and even the N64 (where Tony Hawk 2 was released just months before the Gamecube).

    The problem is, Rockstar is just too fucking greedy. They take bribes out the ass from Sony to keep GTA PS2-only, while taking bribes from Microsoft to port the game over to Xbox. Way to go, Rockstar...you found a clause in your contract that lets you screw everybody. And take all their money.

    Wait, all of a sudden, I don't want GTA anymore at all. Fuck those asstards for taking an old idea and humping it dry, then demanding bribes just to put it on their platform. They think they're hot shit now? Shit, there's plenty of imitators out there- I'll just buy True Crime or Simpsons Hit & Run for Gamecube and get the same experience. But first, I'm gonna get really drunk and pee all over the GTA Vice City logo at EBGames. Fuck you Rockstar, I hope Santa shits in your stocking!

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    (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    1. Re:Why does the Cube get screwed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think the problem is that the GameCube disks just don't hold enough information. Each one holds about 1.5 gigs, right? But if GTA III and/or Vice City are larger than 1.5 gigs, the game will have to be spread over multiple disks. Sure, it's possible to separate each island/area to a single disk, but there is one problem. The problem is that there are graphics and sounds that have to be used in all islands/areas, this means that all disks must contain a copy of all those radio stations and all the graphics.

      We all remember those Final Fantasy and other multi-CD games for the PlayStation, right? The world map (and other multimedia) in the FF games had to be on each of the disks, consuming space on the CD. This eats up space that can be used for more game information (story, text, missions, etc).

      This is probably the only real failing of the GameCube. Very large games will have to span multiple disks and that could be difficult for a developer to manage.

    2. Re:Why does the Cube get screwed? by musikit · · Score: 2, Informative

      although i agree with you.

      1. final fantasy is a PS title
      2. GTA Vice City fits in under 2 PC CD ROMs AFAIK given most CD are 700 or 1.4 GB 1.5GB CD that gamecube has
      3. games are getting close enough to need multiple DVDs!!! FUCK! Final Fantasy XI on PS2 comes pre-installed on the HD why?
      a. people don't want to install games.
      b. it's too big. it took 5 PC CD ROMs and 2.5 hrs of updates on cable/dsl

      so yes multiple disks are "difficult" for developers to handle but they've done it before.

    3. Re:Why does the Cube get screwed? by Mike+Hawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just for the record, min spec (according to ebgames.com) for GTA:VC PC is 915MB of hard disc space +635MB additional if your video card does not support DirectX texture compression. It should be obvious that the Gamecube would not support DirectX anything. This is already above the magic 1.5GB limit strictly for storage. It can be assumed that at the min spec some info streams off the disc even on PC. Has anyone done a full install of VC that can give a precise amount? It would be (presumably) extremely difficult to do GTA as a multidisc since (presumably) the map streams from the disc. There would be a point in the city where crossing the street meant switching discs. Ugh.

      Its also probable there are techinical difficulties beyond pure storage. It is quite common for developers to have difficulty porting to Nintendo consoles due to their (and Sony's) significantly proprietary hardware. PS2 to XBOX is less of a problem because no "optimizing" needs to take place just to make it run.

      Of course, truth be told, its still all just about cash. As in: Sony paid a bucketload to have GTA be exclusive. Rockstar eventually saw they could make more than a bucketload porting it to XBOX and got out of that deal. They obviously don't feel a Gamecube port would be profitable for whatever reason at this time.

    4. Re:Why does the Cube get screwed? by Matrix272 · · Score: 2

      At the same time, PC developers seem quite reluctant to move to DVD-ROM format, as they seem to believe that the same gamers that spend $400 on video cards won't spend $40 on a DVD-ROM drive.

      I always thought that was a bit strange also. Most games come on 1-2 CD's, with a few coming in at 3. Very few have 4 or more (a couple notable examples would be Myst III: Exile, and Buldar's Gate). I believe Buldar's Gate had a separate version available for DVD, but I'm not sure about Myst III. My only assumption is that either they're concerned about too few consumers having DVD drives, or the cost to create DVD disks is higher than I would expect.

      Aside from that, the gamers that spend $400 on a video card absolutely have DVD drives... probably DVD+/-RW drives at this point. However, that's only a relatively small niche market. If they're going to market a game, they want to reach the largest possible user base, and when the PC is concerned, that must be the CD drive... at least for another couple years. Eventually there will be an obvious shift away from the CD format. It'll probably happen as soon as Dell decides that the CD is obsolete, and DVD is the future. On the other hand, maybe they're waiting for the next big innovation in portable storage.

      --
      "It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." ~ Christian Slater, True Romance
    5. Re:Why does the Cube get screwed? by Yaztromo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Gamecube disks hold only roughly 1.5GB of data. Here is what a quick scan of the GTA3 and GTA:VC DVDs for the PS2 claim under some disc scanning:

      • GTA3: 4 640 997 376 bytes
      • GTA:VC: 4 667 004 928 bytes

      I think you have your reason right there as to why there isn't a GameCube version of either title.

      If you want to blame someone for this, blame Nintendo -- in an era when their competitors were releasing consoles that could handle ~8GB discs, they came out and released a console that can only handle ~1.5GB per disc. To me, that just seems extremely short-sighted.

      Yaz.

  5. Has anyone heard of or seen 'Crime Inc'? by @madeus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Has anyone hear of or seen Crime Inc, the game this guy developed?

    (or was it just some personal project that was never released publically?)

    1. Re:Has anyone heard of or seen 'Crime Inc'? by @madeus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I did read the article, and by which I mean actually read it, not skimmed it and inferred meaning into it. :P

      That he showed it in a interview as 'an example of his practical ability' has no bearing on whether or not it was actually released (where possible, I show released and public examples of my software when in interviews).

      The article simply says this about it:

      His game, Crime Inc, which was developed between 1991 and 1993, involved gangs taking part in street crime.

      It does not actually indicate if the game was released to the public. I'd like to know if it was, and if anyone has played it/seen it/knows of screen shots/reviews of it.

      It remains to be seen whether is case has merit (like most readers I strongly suspect it does not) but it is a legitimate type of claim - I don't think it's like Carmack claming he had rights over all FPS's (which I think he very possibly could in the US, if he had a patent and pending no prior art). It's much more like Carmack claming rights over a 'game set in the future in which a space marine is sent to Mars and faces single handed armed combat with a large number of zombies and demons' (and the credibility of that claim would depend on exactly what ideas have been 'ripped off'). It's my understanding that the content of the game is the issue of debate (though I'd love to see more of Crime Inc, to know if their are other obvious similarities).

      Somewhat iterestingly, I used to work in the building opposite DMA design in Dundee (and look out the window at them, less than 100 yards away), when I worked for SOL/Scottish Telecom. Dundee is a city with two Universities, and an economoy of low wages, mostly in the retail sector (due to complete collapse of industry in the area 1900's). As a result of being a small city, a good distance from any other similar sized cities, and having two Universities (yet with a low wage economy) it has no shortage of skilled workes who can be employed for far below market rates, and in the case of students and given the prestige of DMA, you only need to pay them very little indeed (you basically just need to feed them pizza).

      I have heard many times from quite a few people that this is exactly what they did - employ interns as 'cheap/free labour'. This was not entirely a bad deal fo those employed, and they did so willingly, but if they are willing to take such gross advantage of students (who don't really know their own market worth, not only because they arnt in the market place, but because Dundee is not quite in touch with 'rest of the word') then it may set you thinking maybe they are willing to rip off someone interviewies idea.

  6. If only he got a software patent... by qbproger · · Score: 3, Funny

    this would be an open and shut case, and no one would ever be able to make a video game about crime. But who needs choice?

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    - Joe
  7. more people to sue by obsid1an · · Score: 3, Funny

    This guy might want to be careful. The Haitians and the relatives of anyone who has been killed by some kid with a gun might sue him too.

  8. Unnecessarily harsh by cgenman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Right, but nobody at the company remembers him or has any record of him, so that can't be taken as evidence. Google searches yield nothing, and Moby has never heard of him. For a computer consultant, he keeps a very low profile.

    While game concepts can't be patented, games can be copyrighted. Think "K.C. Munchkin." Overly derivitave games can and will be shot down in court. But does Gallager have a case? Grand Theft Auto, a sprite-based top-down shooter, looked like most of the other games out there at the time. The artistic style was nice, but it was a straight rip of any number of 16 bit racing games. The "plot" was a laughable joke, mostly "answer phone, assassinate somebody, answer phone, steal a car." Games about crime had been done before, though none made the same cultural splash. Really, the thing that would make or break this case is if the unique mechanic of car jacking was in Gallager's game... but as nobody seems to have seen it, we simply won't know until it goes before a judge.

    --
    The ______ Agenda
  9. Take 2 is a billion dollar company now... by cdneng2 · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's interesting to note that Take Two has net sales over the BILLION dollar mark.

    1. Re:Take 2 is a billion dollar company now... by JFMulder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, but it depends on your definition of billion dollar company. These are just sales, after everyone takes their own cut and the employees are paid, there's *only* a few hundred millions left.

      Amazing that a game about killing innocent people by driving over them and killing other gangsters could make so much money.

  10. He might have a case, but... by inkless1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...even if it was legit, it seems like it would pertain to GTA and GTA2, Rockstar could easily claim (I'd think) that the 3D makeover divorces it from any code this guy handed his interviewer. And GTA3's success was certainly not built on top of those two games, which were moderate sellers at best.