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Boston's Big Dig Finally Open

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the some-assembly-required dept.

techiemac writes "I just saw a news story on yahoo about Boston's Big Dig finally opening. The Big Dig is considered by many to be the largest modern urban construction project ever!"

14 of 588 comments (clear)

  1. Drove through this morning. by sammyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    15 Billion for a tunnel. Drive in. Stop the car, draw a chalk line arround the car. The cost of that space is more than you will make in your life. Probably more than all your close friends will make in there ENTIRE lives. Someone made a killing!

    1. Re:Drove through this morning. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What's even more sad about this is that a large (perhaps the largest) part of the $15 billion that went into this project came from the pockets of citizens who are never going to use the tunnel. The part of the state that doesn't live in Boston has been financing this whole thing for I can't even tell you how many years, and we're never going to see any payoff for it. This was a largely tax-payer funded project, and the majourity of us taxpayers don't live in Boston. While the money was flowing in to make Boston-area commuters' lives a little easier, Western Mass public schools have fallen apart (class sizes at my former high school have doubled in 3 years to an average of over 40 students per class), city and state services are being cut back further and further (public works projects have all but ceased, near as I can tell), and OUR roads are falling apart because there isn't any money left to fix them with.

      I'm all in favour of Big Projects and Big Engineering, but at some point you have to question why you're doing it. There's just no reason why the Big Dig had to be so expensive, or so big. I keep asking myself, "where's the beef?" ("where are the WMD's?"). Why did the State drag us into a project that benefits the few at the expense of the many? And (worse), how did we (the many) let them get away with it for so long?

      -Another Disgruntled Mass-hole

    2. Re:Drove through this morning. by amabbi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      as a former mass. resident myself (cambridge), i think that's crap. the majority of funds for the big dig were taken from federal highway funds... i can't find a definitive link online, but i think the feds were supposed to pay for the entire shebang, but cost overruns (to the tune of $6b!) were the responsibility of the commonwealth. furthermore, education funds are primarily taken from local property taxes, so the decline of your local schools is likely due to the declining value of real estate in your area, not some urban renewal project 250 miles away. the need for the big dig is obvious; the lack of quantity and quality of highways to boston are well documented. i'm not trying to defend the big dig administration ($6b over budget and 5 years late is obviously, obviously unacceptable) but to blame your neighborhood problems on it is quite short sighted.

    3. Re:Drove through this morning. by umofomia · · Score: 5, Insightful
      This is a big misconception about the funds. Federal highway funds are used for funding interstate highways. However, during the 50s, 60s, and 70s, Massachusetts didn't see any of that while most other states were able to receive the funds. All of the interstate highways built during that period were funded using Massachusetts money.

      When the Big Dig was conceived in the 80s, the only reason why Congress voted for it (and overrode Reagan's veto) was because of the fact that Massachusetts never received any federal highway funding in the first place.

      Also, the cost overruns were mostly due to two factors:

      1. The decision of former Governor Weld to reopen the environmental impact study even though it was already completed. When Weld came to power, he gutted the entire transportation administration that oversaw the project under Dukakis. This ended up delaying the project for several years (making up the majority of the cost overruns) and in the end, the conclusion was exactly the same as the original impact study.
      2. The installation of several high-speed optical communications lines. This I feel was a justified cost overrun. During the late 90s, there was intense demand for high-speed communications lines to downtown and they had the opportunity to install them while constructing the Big Dig. If they had not done this, most likely the entire thing would have needed to be torn up again a couple years later to install the lines at an even greater cost.
  2. Safety... by Cyclopedian · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From the article: ...Big Dig managers opted for a brief ceremony Friday. They observed a moment of silence for four workers killed during construction.

    For such a large and complicated project with many engineering challenges, only 4 workers died during construction. That's a testament to everyone involved with the project, especially the workers themselves. Kudo to them.

    -Cyc

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    /.'s 10 Millionth
  3. Re:It's not done... by puppet10 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The northbound lanes have been open for a while, but they do still need to tear down the elevated highway.

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  4. tearing down the elevated expressway by shaunyb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    i guess this means they're gonna tear down the elevated expressway (the road we used to use before the big dig). it's too bad too. as ugly as the road was, it was a pretty scenic route. you could see large parts of boston. i remember being scared shitless the first time i went on the upper deck, when i was a little kid; it's fairly high up.

    i'll miss the old gal.

  5. 18 months to go by saabmp3 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Big Dig still has another 18 months and projected 1 billion dollars to go. Today was just the opening on the southbound tunnel.

    The tunnels did NOT cost 17 billion. There is a world reconized bridge next to the fleet center, many new buildings, subway lines and bus lines running because of this project. I know the budget seems to be absurd, but when looking at all they did you can see where some of the money went.

    BEN

  6. This things been underway for as long... by downix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    as I can remember. And I'm nearing my 30's now.

    Some folk dismiss it as being a waste, but unlike them I've driven in Boston Traffic. The Big Dig is turning a city that was having its traffic issue choking its very lifeblood out of it into a revitalized effort.

    That $15 billion did more than just provide some tunnels and bridges, it provided for countless kids education as their mommys and daddys had steady work. It gave thousands of hard workers the money needed to save it away rather than rely social security and medicare. It was more than a public work, it revitalized whole sections of the economy while simultaneously improving the traffic flow in and around one of the oldest cities in the US.

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    Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
  7. Re:Big Dig = Giant Boondoggle for Special Interest by Enry · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For a one party state, we've had Republican governors for about the past 10 years. Libertarians have a pretty good foothold in a lot of areas as well. Complaining about people like Sen. Kennedy ignores the fact that Republicans don't run anyone against him. When someone does (Jack E. Robinson?), they get no support from Republican party officials. When Weld ran against Kerry, I voted Kerry because I thought Weld would do a better job as governor than senator.

    You want Taxachusetts? Check out NY. Over 8% sales tax, high property tax rates, high income tax rates. It costs more to drive on the NYS Thruway than it does for the MS Turnpike. About the only thing going for NY is the fact that they have EZ-Pass run by the state instead of the pseudo-commercial Fastlane.

    The Big Dig is a long time coming, and should be worthwhile in the end. There was a lot of innovation involved in construction and hopefully that investment will pay off in lower expenses for similar projects in the future. Don't forget that most of Boston's square footage didn't exist when certain tea boxes were thrown into the harbor.

  8. Either way you put it by goon+america · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It used to be that people found giant public works projects to be a source of national pride. Nowadays, people feel impugned by large public works projects to their personal sense of power. That's my money they're spending!

    Either way, it's the same emotion. I don't know which, if either, is "right", but you should at least keep that in mind when evaluating arguments about this sort of problem. (You can get the same feeling from reading a lot of books as you can from having a lot of guns; it's all just power.)

  9. Re:Big Dig = Giant Boondoggle for Special Interest by nathanh · · Score: 5, Funny
    Most of this $16 billion came from out of state, i.e., from your pocket. Do you think Boston residents who already command huge rents and appraisals should now be able to look out the window at a grassy knoll instead of elevated steel girders and command even higher rents and appraisals, and at your cost?

    Yeah. Damn this whole "federation" thing to hell. What has it done for me, lately! My taxes should only benefit me. Mine Mine Mine. Gimme Gimme Gimme. Selfish Bostonian bastards, taking my tax dollars. I fought and died in the war for this country! All I want is a little respect... plus all my tax dollars paying for ME ME ME. I'll be damned to hell if my tax dollars are going to fund some evil democrats in Boston!

    Sorry, for a second there you sounded like a 90-year old ingrate. At what point in your life did selfish greed overwhelm your sense of civic and national pride?

    Hint: you could have simply said that the tunnel was overpriced without making a reference to the funding coming out of "your pocket".

    Once this thing got started, no one in power was going to say, "STOP! It's costing too much!", both because it seemed irreversible and because the Dems in power in Boston

    It's those damn democrats in power! Lousy democrats. Stealing my tax dollars and probably killing babies too. That's what democrats do.

    Giggle. You sound just like a crank. I bet you ring up talkback radio and complain about those "damn young kids with their Rock And/Or Roll music".

  10. Ahead of schedule and under budget is possible by Ranger96 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Dallas High-5 project (huge 5 level interchange between I-635 and US 75) is the largest interchange ever built in Texas. It's currently running several months ahead of schedule and under budget (http://www.dallashighfive.org/progress/).

    Granted, it's not anywhere near the scale, but it is an example of how a public works project can be well managed. The contract calls for fixed bonus amounts to be paid to the contractor for every day early the project is completed. It also imposes cash penalties for closing lanes of traffic during rush hour and for each day late the project is completed.

    Ranger96

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    What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.-Ecclesiastes 1:9
  11. Re:Most Expensive For Sure by ShadowBlasko · · Score: 5, Informative

    Do you have ANY CLUE what was involved in the Big Dig? Do you?

    We are talking about 6 LAYERS of infrastructure.

    Entire new methods of working the ground were needed to complete parts of this project. Ground Freezing for stabilization, tunnel jacking. You name it.

    I tell you what bud. I would be willing to bet that a private firm would tell you today that it might cost you 5 Billion *just* to deal with the public utilities layer of this job. Have you ever been below ground in a service conduit?

    Imagine one that is 100 years old. Parts of it running underwater. 100 year old plumbing that must be re-routed without disrupting service.

    50 year old eletrical lines that the wiring maps were lost AGES ago. Wanna deal with that?

    40 Year old telcom/data conduits, Some private. Most redundant and replaced years ago, but still physically down there. What goes where? Who owns what? What needs replaced? Whats new? Where do we PUT it? Is there more behind that wall?

    Is that unlabelled black cable *laying* on the ground an old bell trunk line? Or UUnets OC-256. (I have no clue if UUnets pipe is that size, or where it runs, so don't flame me, I am just throwing out an example. A Large percentage of that service level is undocumented, so you have no clue) Lets cut it and find out? Wanna place a bet?

    Okay. You have it all figured out now? Took you what? 1 year, 2 maybe to find out who owns what, where it goes, and to deal with city hall and the lawyers and the paperwork.

    Congratulations, You have just completed 100 Feet of this layer of the project. Only 13 miles to go, and 5 other layers to deal with.

    Learn what was involved before you bitch about the price. Sure it was expensive, but it was needed. And in the long run, it will be worth it.

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    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass