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Boston's Big Dig Finally Open
techiemac writes "I just saw a news story on yahoo about Boston's Big Dig finally opening. The Big Dig is considered by many to be the largest modern urban construction project ever!"
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I was gonna make a joke about it, but it actually returned results!
$ dig bostonbigdig.com
; <<>> DiG 9.2.3 <<>> bostonbigdig.com
;; global options: printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 1417
;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 6, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
;; QUESTION SECTION:
;bostonbigdig.com. IN A
;; ANSWER SECTION:
bostonbigdig.com. 3600 IN A 64.15.205.180
bostonbigdig.com. 3600 IN A 64.15.205.202
bostonbigdig.com. 3600 IN A 64.15.205.182
bostonbigdig.com. 3600 IN A 64.15.205.183
bostonbigdig.com. 3600 IN A 64.15.205.155
bostonbigdig.com. 3600 IN A 64.15.205.132
;; Query time: 110 msec
;; SERVER: 192.168.1.10#53(192.168.1.10)
;; WHEN: Sat Dec 20 13:11:46 2003
;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 130
Too bad it's about New Jersey...
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
inside the lanes.
There was no lottery on the first person through. However, Ravi Jain and Stefan Economou were the last people to drive over the old elevated central artery. Ravi Jain and Stefan Economu are self-described transportation pioneers. You can find out more about this at Ravi Jain's web site. There is also quite a bit of Big Dig coverage at Boston.com.
15 Billion for a tunnel. Drive in. Stop the car, draw a chalk line arround the car. The cost of that space is more than you will make in your life. Probably more than all your close friends will make in there ENTIRE lives. Someone made a killing!
For such a large and complicated project with many engineering challenges, only 4 workers died during construction. That's a testament to everyone involved with the project, especially the workers themselves. Kudo to them.
-Cyc
/.'s 10 Millionth
i live about an hour from boston, and i know the northbound lanes have been open for a while now. this means that the entire thing is open now.
The northbound lanes have been open for a while, but they do still need to tear down the elevated highway.
-------- This space intentionally left blank --------
Original projected cost: $2.5 billion
Final cost: $16 billion
Do the math. Once this thing got started, no one in power was going to say, "STOP! It's costing too much!", both because it seemed irreversible and because the Dems in power in Boston (Massachusetts is a one-party state) were happy getting union favors in elections in return for more jobs artificially generated by the Big Dig's continuation.
Most of this $16 billion came from out of state, i.e., from your pocket. Do you think Boston residents who already command huge rents and appraisals should now be able to look out the window at a grassy knoll instead of elevated steel girders and command even higher rents and appraisals, and at your cost?
Really, the elevated artery could have been renovated to provide the same benefits---minus the prettiness---that the Big Dig provides, and at a much reduced cost. But what is $16 billion, really, when you consider the size of the federal budget, especially when spread over 15 years? Unfortunately, $16 billion here and $16 billion there add up to what is considered real money even by the standards of the federal government.
Several groups are lobbying to have the Big Dig tunnel and bridge (currently named the "Liberty Tunnel" and the "Lenoard P. Zakim Bridge") renamed "The Taxpayer's Tunnel/Bridge." Since there's no way we're getting our money back, maybe we can at least recognize the people who really made this possible: the taxpayers.
Yet, the Democratic cabal on Beacon Hill wants to rename the tunnel after Tip O'Neill, a Democratic Senator from the great Commonwealth of Taxachusetts who was responsible for this pork barrel project. As a taxpaying resident of Massachusetts, I am outraged that these people are trying to celebrate this corruption! I can't believe I'm the only one.
[ home ]
i guess this means they're gonna tear down the elevated expressway (the road we used to use before the big dig). it's too bad too. as ugly as the road was, it was a pretty scenic route. you could see large parts of boston. i remember being scared shitless the first time i went on the upper deck, when i was a little kid; it's fairly high up.
i'll miss the old gal.
the Dems in power in Boston (Massachusetts is a one-party state) were happy getting union favors
The Governor is a Republican so how come you right away blame the Dem's. Don't let the facts get in the way of your rant though.
The Big Dig still has another 18 months and projected 1 billion dollars to go. Today was just the opening on the southbound tunnel.
The tunnels did NOT cost 17 billion. There is a world reconized bridge next to the fleet center, many new buildings, subway lines and bus lines running because of this project. I know the budget seems to be absurd, but when looking at all they did you can see where some of the money went.
BEN
Now if they could just finish the Widen3.com project.
Its runs under the same budget as the BigDig and is a simple project to widen Route 3, a 15-20 mile 4 lane (2 each direction) to 5 lanes (3 each direction).
Well, its been over 3 years now and not a single inch of extra lane has been opened (yet they have almost the entire thing paved and still blocked off).
In closing, Massachussetts sucks. If I could get a job elsewhere which could pay my bills, I'd leave in a heartbeat
"Where is my mind?"
Well you know they are trying really hard to keep up with bush and his military expenses, and his oil .... err country rebuilding. gotta love them there right wingers aye sonny ?
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein
Amorello had nothing to do with the project, other than being the head of the MTA while it was being built. Fred Salvucci was the guy behind it, and Tip O'Neill was a the big supporter in congress.
There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
We had a relatively expensive section of state highway in the Phoenix area, when the Squaw Peak Parkway carved through a rather expensive part of town. They made the hole in the ground almost straight down with vertical walls. To my knowledge, at the time it was completed it was one of the most expensive sections of freeway ever built, between the costs to condemn and claim right-of-way, the costs to excavate through bedrock down below, and the costs to make this all happen with buildings a few feet from the hole. And this was all state and city funding, as it wasn't an Interstate or a Federal highway. At this point I'm sure that Central Artery has far, FAR overrun Phoenix's project.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
While building this tunnel makes life convenient for the suburb-dwellers all around Boston, the actual residents would have benefitted a great deal more if the money were spent on improving the subways and light rail systems in the city. Cars are expensive for private citizens to own and operate; we'd move a great deal closer to an equitable society by making them optional instead of essentially a requirement of citizenship.
This means that massive funds should not be spent on these highways which are essentially a subsidy for the megacorporations that build the cars. (It makes their products more useful, and ties up the money that could be spent on other transport options, forcing people to purchase cars if they want any mobility at all.) GM, Ford, Toyota, etc. should be the ones building the roads, out of their own pockets, to create incentives for people to buy their automobile products. Those who don't own cars should not have their tax dollars spent on such projects. Those who use cars, and thus cost everyone a great deal in externalities like pollution, pedestrian deaths, loss of usable urban real estate, should pay the entire cost of their choices, rather than foisting it on society.
The Green Line subway in Boston should have been upgraded to an underground heavy rail line at least out past Boston University. The "Silver Line" circumferential route should have been built as a high capacity light rail route. The North-South rail link should have been implemented. Etc, etc.
as I can remember. And I'm nearing my 30's now.
Some folk dismiss it as being a waste, but unlike them I've driven in Boston Traffic. The Big Dig is turning a city that was having its traffic issue choking its very lifeblood out of it into a revitalized effort.
That $15 billion did more than just provide some tunnels and bridges, it provided for countless kids education as their mommys and daddys had steady work. It gave thousands of hard workers the money needed to save it away rather than rely social security and medicare. It was more than a public work, it revitalized whole sections of the economy while simultaneously improving the traffic flow in and around one of the oldest cities in the US.
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
Do you have any idea how much taxes/road construction, gas, pollution, etc cost? If not you need to rethink. Jesus, did you ever consider that the big ,dig had to be built underground because of cars? Either way, public transit is *way* less expensive than cars. Sorry, try again,
-Sean
For a one party state, we've had Republican governors for about the past 10 years. Libertarians have a pretty good foothold in a lot of areas as well. Complaining about people like Sen. Kennedy ignores the fact that Republicans don't run anyone against him. When someone does (Jack E. Robinson?), they get no support from Republican party officials. When Weld ran against Kerry, I voted Kerry because I thought Weld would do a better job as governor than senator.
You want Taxachusetts? Check out NY. Over 8% sales tax, high property tax rates, high income tax rates. It costs more to drive on the NYS Thruway than it does for the MS Turnpike. About the only thing going for NY is the fact that they have EZ-Pass run by the state instead of the pseudo-commercial Fastlane.
The Big Dig is a long time coming, and should be worthwhile in the end. There was a lot of innovation involved in construction and hopefully that investment will pay off in lower expenses for similar projects in the future. Don't forget that most of Boston's square footage didn't exist when certain tea boxes were thrown into the harbor.
Your comment indicates you know nothing about Massachusetts local politics. The governor for some strange reason has been Republican for the last decade, but that is merely an aberration: both houses of the legislature, both senators, and (all or most of) the representatives are Democrats. Seems pretty one-party to me.
[ home ]
Either way, it's the same emotion. I don't know which, if either, is "right", but you should at least keep that in mind when evaluating arguments about this sort of problem. (You can get the same feeling from reading a lot of books as you can from having a lot of guns; it's all just power.)
There's no way the Central Artery could have been "renovated". The structures is made up of concrete and lead paint. Any renovation would require a huge costs in abatement and environmental cleanup, and you can't widen the elevated structure without demolishing more buildings, which would be a bad idea.
Have you ever even driven on the old artery? It was a fucking mess. It was also one of the most unsafe stretches in the Interstate Highway System. 10 exits in just over a mile - weave lanes of 600 feet, narrow clearance, no breakdown lanes - it was a mess.
The tunnel also gives Boston the ability to mend the scar caused by the elevated artery. The city was divided - a city needs linearity in order to function. Having hundreds of streets cut off by the elevated artery diminishes the city as a whole.
Sure, there were cost overruns and embezzlements, like there are with any large government project ($50 hammers for the Navy, anyone?), but the benefits for the city as a whole (and it's not just to raise rents by improving the view - much of boston's residential land does not abut the artery corridor) will be great.
There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
You guys are all for throwing billions of dollars at a public works project, as long as union labor is involved, but anything Bush does is automatically about oil. nice job, jackass. If it's about oil, why didn't we keep kuait in the 90's?
The Chunnel, or the 32 mile undersea tunnel across the English channel connecting Calais, France and Brighton, UK, is the largest and greatest urban construction project ever. It cost the same -- roughly $15 billion -- but actually came in on schedule and cost, does wonders for the economies of both countries, and relies on clean mass transit systems that travel 200mph, run by open source software.
All of this was done with 13,000 engineers who spoke different languages. It was also voted the best project of the 20th century:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/302345.stm
No, finally -closing-. It opened over a decade ago, and has been rolled out in several stages over the last several years. I hope I have the order right here:
It's grossly over budget(4x at least?), is the largest construction project in the world- and had some amazing tolerances. One of the tunnels passes within inches of the existing red line subway lines(South Station, the largest terminal in Boston, is right smack where 93 had to go). This accounts for the VERY(maximum permissable grade under fed law) steep decline southbound; they had to go over one thing, under another. The red line now 'rests' on a giant concrete wall that was set in-place.
Oh, and in order to do the connector for the mass pike, they had to FREEZE the ground. Yep. Freeze it- because it was so unstable. And they installed new sections in one tunnel by hydraulically jacking them through the ground. Wild stuff.
The Boston Pops were going to do a concert inside the 93 southbound lanes before the opening- partially sponsored by corporate donors. Except that the corporate donors didn't know their money would be used for it. Even when they agreed to -fully- sponsor it, the concert was still cancelled after massive criticism. When you go $8B+ over budget, you don't exactly pat yourself on the back too enthusiastically.
Everyone in Boston is mostly just happy that it's over. For the last decade, we've had all sorts of odd route closures, exits shut down/reopened, conditions placed on tunnel/bridge use...it's finally all over, and everyone can just get back to driving like psychos :-)
Please help metamoderate.
One point that is often missed when people trot out these figures: the original "Big Dig" was essentially just the 3rd Harbor (Ted Williams) Tunnel and a few local improvements. Certainly a lot of the cost increases can probably be attributed to inefficiencies (such as the infamous fireboat), but much of the cost increase is due to an increased scope (eg. the I-93 tunnel), inflation, and unforeseen difficulties (for example the tunnel jacking and soil freezing operations ran into major problems).
Once this thing got started, no one in power was going to say, "STOP! It's costing too much!"While no one really wanted to spend $16B, no one in Boston was going to say "stop" simply because we are sick of sitting in traffic 16 hours per day
Really, the elevated artery could have been renovated to provide the same benefits---minus the prettiness---that the Big Dig provides, and at a much reduced cost.It would have been significantly cheaper (in absolute dollars) to renovate the elevated artery, but the long-term cost to the region would have been devastating since you would have to shut down the major north/south artery through Boston to do it (and no, moving traffic to an already overcrowded I-95 wouldn't have helped).
Sorry, you're right. My mistake: he was a representative, not a senator.
[ home ]
I drove into Boston during much of this project, and can testify that succeeded in accommodating existing traffic without much interruption. The rest of the time, I used mass transit and was able to observe some of the work from sidewalks and subway stations.
Yes, there were cost overruns, but I'm not terribly surprised by the escalations (especially aftet accounting for inflation over 15+ years). And I don't expect to live to see a software project run any better (and I've been observing those for even longer).
I want a system whereby independant citizens can sue States to force them to pick up the entire tab for pork barrel projects their Representives and Senators secure for them. The factors to be directly considered would be the contents and primary purpose of the bill the appropriation was located in, the ammount and quality of debate over the appropriation, and does the appropriation benifit citizens not in the state enough to justify the cost. Leaving sole direct control of appropriations to elected officials is a big mistake.
common sense: noun
What those who are ignorant of the subject matter think; usually wrong.
Yeah. Damn this whole "federation" thing to hell. What has it done for me, lately! My taxes should only benefit me. Mine Mine Mine. Gimme Gimme Gimme. Selfish Bostonian bastards, taking my tax dollars. I fought and died in the war for this country! All I want is a little respect... plus all my tax dollars paying for ME ME ME. I'll be damned to hell if my tax dollars are going to fund some evil democrats in Boston!
Sorry, for a second there you sounded like a 90-year old ingrate. At what point in your life did selfish greed overwhelm your sense of civic and national pride?
Hint: you could have simply said that the tunnel was overpriced without making a reference to the funding coming out of "your pocket".
It's those damn democrats in power! Lousy democrats. Stealing my tax dollars and probably killing babies too. That's what democrats do.
Giggle. You sound just like a crank. I bet you ring up talkback radio and complain about those "damn young kids with their Rock And/Or Roll music".
An underground highway can only lead to underground McDonalds's, and underground apartments for the McD workers... is this the start of the Morlocks? Also, since when does every bridge have to be some kinda new-fangled contraption that looks like the next contender for a Maxell Audio commercial (bridge falls down)? They put up one of those at OSU, and it's cool, "i guess", but i think more thoroughly tested designs would be better solutions.
stuff |
I don't think it's that much of a boondoggle as most think. I've seen several shows and been involved in many construction projects over $300M each and it's easy to go over budget especially on such a project as this. If anyone said it would cost over $10B when they started, they never would have started and people would be screaming about the traffic. I live outside of Houston and hear people constantly complain about the traffic, then turn around and complain when construction starts.
Really, I wish whoever submitted this had done a little better job with the story, considering how big a project this was :-)
Please help metamoderate.
A few years and a several billion dollars into the Big Dig, transportation planners discovered a cheaper and easier alternative that would do an even better job easing traffic congestion in Boston and improving the scenic quality of the city. Instead of the "big dig" approach of burying a 8 miles of highway, the state would instead construct a large brick or concrete barrier right across I-93, strong enough to withstand the steady stream of cars crashing into it as they try to get into the city. The section of highway beyond this barrier is then demolished. This approach avoids the "if you build it they will come" increase of cars that quickly negates the effectiveness of most road and highway improvements. Unfortunately, by the time this was realized, enough money had been spent that it was too difficult to change course.
You have to find the fine print. Only two of the 4 lanes are open. The old road was 3 lanes, 93 south is currently down to 2 lanes. We should see the last two lanes in 2006.
Don't forget that the Dems have VETO-PROOF majorities in both houses. This makes the governor only symbolic when it comes to legislative issues, because the leaders of the house and senate get together on a porch, smoke a cigar, and decide on funding issues. The only reason that the commonwealth hasn't collapsed has been the fiscally conservative democrats have been holding the leadership positions...
:)
Your other point doesn't really emphasize the problem. Not only is the entire Mass congressional delegation democrats, the senators are Kennedy (liberal leader in the Senate), and Kerry (Presidential candidate). This really hurts the state, as the GOP in Congress is more than happy to let us mire in our own stew...
Voting against Kerry in '02 was satisfying, even if it was throwing a vote away on the libertarians... not nearly as satisfying as voting for Bush in Fla. in '00...
Alex
Why does everybody hate the big dig? Honestly, this is probably the most visionary project that any government has undertaken in a generation. Yes, it was expensive, mistakes were made, and it ended up being a lot harder to do than anyone predicted. But in the end you have a beautiful city, which will stay beautiful for a century. Nobody is going to dare proposing a huge, ugly, elevated highway through Boston anytime soon.
I don't live in Boston, but I lived in Toronto for six years. The Gardiner Expressway is an ugly elevated highway that neatly isolates downtown from the waterfront. So because the waterfront is basically a separate region from the city, it's all ugly vacant lots, polluted dock land or steel-jungle condos, right up to the water. No parks, no public space, just a lot of nastiness. There has been talk of burying it (and the big dig is held out as an example), but city council can rarely agree on the day of the week, much less spending $10 billion. Besides, with the condos going up, the opportunity has already been lost.
I predict that in 100 years, the big dig will be considered a marvel of engineering -- the modern equivalent of a cathedral.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Of course you like it. You didn't have to pay for most of it. The rest of the country did.
It would have been cheaper to rebuild the city elsewhere.
"It costs more to drive on the NYS Thruway than it does for the MS Turnpike."
Mississippi has a turnpike?
For the DNC convention, right? It seems that the SS/DOJ/whatever has a problem with it being a couple hundred feet away from the convention site (Fleet Center). Terrorism yada, yada, yada. On the bright side 128 should be able to handle the extra traffic in usual style (good time to start that new Harry Potter book).
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
The thing you aren't considering is the fact that this was planned and budgetted 15 years ago. When you consider HOW they built against some incredible challenges like needing to freeze the ground behind north station so they could tunnel without disturbing the railways above (brine filled pipes as close to 3 feet apart in most places. They had to drain large portions of Fort Point Channel in order to sink a tunnel near the Orange and Red Subway tunnels with a mere 18 inches to spare in places. PLUS they had to reroute a vast portion of the Boston area telephone network and major electrical feeds. It is pretty amazing how it all came to together. It is working and Boston needed it and the folks who built it did a great job. As for the price.. no one could have predicted the impact of such enormous challenges when the budget was prepared over 10 years ago and well anyone who thinks that there wasn't going to be a hefty "graft and corruption" premium for the largest public works is delusional
- The original project and the final one were indeed two separate beasts. Had all the required work been done separately it would have taken 30 years and left western Massachustts in far worse shape the entire time. Combining it all into one megaproject was only practical.
- The old Central Artery structure could not have been "renovated". Categorically impossible. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is completely ignorant or lying wildly. The existing structure was literally collapsing and no replacement in situ was possible. No room for an additional or replacement structure alongside or above either, much less the ramps that would have been required.
- Yeah, federal taxes paid for part of the new highway system. They also paid for untold miles of lightly traveled interstate in Utah & Montana too. It's called an highway system and Boston is a vital hub for the northeastern US: It locks solid and so does much of the rest of the region economically. By the way, if it makes you feel any better the elevated highway at the heart of the whole project was originally built entirely by the State of Massachusetts.
- "Several groups are lobbying" = You and your two sister/brother/cousins. The reality is that most anyone with any sense of the traffic situation in the northeast is well aware that this megaproject only brings it up to current needs and had it not been undertaken things would be far more dire.
- "Democratic cabal" so now you show your true rabidly partisan colors. Pity the actual makeup of the statehouse doesn't match your warped portrayal of it.
We now return you to squarooticus' regular rant: Fluoridation of water: A Communist plot to invade our vital bodily fluids!I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
$15 billion / 161 lane-miles / 5280 (feet/mile) * 15 feet (average car length) = $264,680
Yes, and due to the magically wonderful efficiencies of business, every one of the projects I've ever had knowledge of in the many corporations I've been exposed to have been completed on time, under budget, and with maximized results.
.sarcasm off
Why do we do it any other way?
You'ld think they could afford better roadsigns.
But that's Boston driving for ya- where only the intersecting streets are labeled, Speed Lane is called "EZ Pass" (WTF?) and rotaries are common.
I was over there the other day and got lost, and I've been living here for 15 years!
Links:
Big Dig Photos
Big Dig Operations Center
The History Channel on the Big Dig
Official Big Dig Site
Still, my favorite response to the project came from Rep. Barney Frank. After hearing about the projected cost of the Big Dig, he remarked that, instead of putting the highway underground, it might be cheaper to raise the city. :-)
The Dallas High-5 project (huge 5 level interchange between I-635 and US 75) is the largest interchange ever built in Texas. It's currently running several months ahead of schedule and under budget (http://www.dallashighfive.org/progress/).
Granted, it's not anywhere near the scale, but it is an example of how a public works project can be well managed. The contract calls for fixed bonus amounts to be paid to the contractor for every day early the project is completed. It also imposes cash penalties for closing lanes of traffic during rush hour and for each day late the project is completed.
Ranger96
What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.-Ecclesiastes 1:9
Screw it - I'm ditching my mod points. I lived for two years in Boston and I have to say it was awesome.
90% of everything is crap. Also, crap is relative.
Ok, I drive in and out of Boston all the time. Honestly the construction is the biggest government tax scam. There is no difference now, and there won't be any difference 5 years from now.
The congestion is not "getting to the city". Is people circling boston streets endless with no parking. The big dig should have spent their money building 5 or 6 gigantic parking lot. That would have made more sense.
If this city would be willing to get rid of some cow paths, we would have enough room to build anything in no time. But no... we keep everything from the 1900s. No wonder the red sox can't win. The players are all tired by the time they get to fenway.
Actually, it was Bechtel corporation who did all the work. All the govt. did was pay the bills.
Magnus.
After living here six years, I still don't know what it means.
What`s even more sad about this is that a large (perhaps the largest) part of the $15 billion that went into this project came from the pockets of citizens who are never going to use the tunnel. The part of the state that doesn't live in Boston has been financing this whole thing for I can't even tell you how many years, and we're never going to see any payoff for it. This was a largely tax-payer funded project, and the majourity of us taxpayers don't live in Boston. While the money was flowing in to make Boston-area commuters' lives a little easier, Western Mass public schools have fallen apart (class sizes at my former high school have doubled in 3 years to an average of over 40 students per class), city and state services are being cut back further and further (public works projects have all but ceased, near as I can tell), and OUR roads are falling apart because there isn't any money left to fix them with.
I'm all in favour of Big Projects and Big Engineering, but at some point you have to question why you're doing it. There's just no reason why the Big Dig had to be so expensive, or so big. I keep asking myself, "where's the beef?" ("where are the WMD's?"). Why did the State drag us into a project that benefits the few at the expense of the many? And (worse), how did we (the many) let them get away with it for so long?
-Another Disgruntled Mass-hole
HOW'S MY POSTING? CALL 1-800-POSTING
There are NO TOLLS in the Central Artery Tunnel. Let me repeat that, because I realize not all of you commute in and around the Boston area day in day out, THERE ARE NO TOLLS IN THE CENTRAL ARTERY TUNNEL.
There are tolls on numerous other bridges and routes, most of which either ALREADY HAD TOLLS or are replacing routes that were toll based to begin with. Tolls have GONE UP, but that's a different story.
This is incorrect. The I-93 section of the Artery is toll free.
I-90 (the Mass Pike) extension is toll, on the return (Westbound) side of the tunnel, comming out of the airport. It was previously $4 dollars for cars when I last working on the project. FWIW, the Eastbound section is toll too, but you pay them before you enter the section of the highway that belongs to the CA/T.
"A woeful example of a make-work program gone wrong...."
The cost and time overruns were indeed stupefying (though I'd put at least half of each down to over optomistic estimation, as opposed to waste/corruption/unforseen complexities). But by calling it a "make-work" project, you make one thing abundantly clear: you never drove Bostons central artery on a regular basis. The big dig was sorely needed. It was truly visonary of it's originators that they realized the only solution was to completely redesign how traffic should move through that corridor. My only complaint with the design is that they didn't include a rail link between North and South Station. (Which of course would have added some additional huge amount to the tab). Anyhow, make-work it was not; Boston was stangling under the inability of traffic to move through that corridor. At thanksgiving time, I drove from the south to the airport in the middle of the day without slowing to under 30mph, much less spending an hour trying to go the last few miles. An unheard of feat in my previous 20 years of living near or visiting Boston.
While the BigDig itself is quite a feat in every regard (engineering, technological, political, etc.)
I personally, worked on the software driving the BigDig's traffic managment system (TMS). The completed system is a quite a feat, allowing their operators to monitor every asepect of the roadway.
The system features a complete CCTV network, espousing the entire system. It provides comprehensive monitoring and control of every device attached to the tunnel and supporting buildings, including traffic signs, message signs, fire alarms, smoke detectors, ventilation fans, electrical subsystems.
You name it, its connected to the TMS -- everything can be monitored and controled from there. Obviously, its not the only manner to control; everything has a redundant control system, so everything could be controlled if the system shuts down.
The system also features intelligent accident management and response: it can automatically balance responses to mulitiple accidents, and automatically recommend responses based on roadway conditions. For example, if a accidnet occurs shutting down the two center lanes, it will automatically PLace red X's on the lane signals, display accident warning messages on the signs, and even change the radio message as appropate. All the operator has to do is review the recommend actions, remove any he doesn't want, and activate. The software takes care of handling everything else.
Do you have ANY CLUE what was involved in the Big Dig? Do you?
We are talking about 6 LAYERS of infrastructure.
Entire new methods of working the ground were needed to complete parts of this project. Ground Freezing for stabilization, tunnel jacking. You name it.
I tell you what bud. I would be willing to bet that a private firm would tell you today that it might cost you 5 Billion *just* to deal with the public utilities layer of this job. Have you ever been below ground in a service conduit?
Imagine one that is 100 years old. Parts of it running underwater. 100 year old plumbing that must be re-routed without disrupting service.
50 year old eletrical lines that the wiring maps were lost AGES ago. Wanna deal with that?
40 Year old telcom/data conduits, Some private. Most redundant and replaced years ago, but still physically down there. What goes where? Who owns what? What needs replaced? Whats new? Where do we PUT it? Is there more behind that wall?
Is that unlabelled black cable *laying* on the ground an old bell trunk line? Or UUnets OC-256. (I have no clue if UUnets pipe is that size, or where it runs, so don't flame me, I am just throwing out an example. A Large percentage of that service level is undocumented, so you have no clue) Lets cut it and find out? Wanna place a bet?
Okay. You have it all figured out now? Took you what? 1 year, 2 maybe to find out who owns what, where it goes, and to deal with city hall and the lawyers and the paperwork.
Congratulations, You have just completed 100 Feet of this layer of the project. Only 13 miles to go, and 5 other layers to deal with.
Learn what was involved before you bitch about the price. Sure it was expensive, but it was needed. And in the long run, it will be worth it.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass
FYI, from my experience Mass drivers will ignore the red lane signals and try to speed ahead on a closed lane in hope of getting a few cars ahead, they'll then stop all those abiding the rules to squeeze in, causing massive backup.
I suggest ceiling-mounted machine guns for these cases, wire them into your system and advertise them heavily. I guarantee that the economic benefit of everyone getting to work on-time will far outweigh the costs of sweeping up the remains of the jerks who are constanly looking to get ahead at the expense of others.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
Discovery Channel has visited the Dig in Extreme Engineering series. There's lots of stuff to explore online too.
The MBTA and Amtrak have already begun construction of an underground rail-link tunnel between North Station and South Station. Fear not.
Wow! It's not well known history, but North and South Station have never been really connected. There was a "short haul" line to service factories and the like, but ventilation problems back when locomotives were coal fired prevented all but that sort of light traffic from using it.
That link was shut down in 1911 or so as I remember, and the last time I checked moving rail cars from north to south requires running them right through MIT and ~ 12 miles out to Framingham and then back. For cargo, this will probably remain the case (cargo and passenger trains have different requirements based on cargo weight and passenger speed).
It's going to be great for the areas north of Boston if they pull it off (especially with airline trips getting ever more obnoxious). The Boston area has a great commuter rail system (as of a dozen years ago), but the difficulty connecting from North to South Station (you would have to get off a commuter train, get on the Green line, then transfer to the Red to get to South Station and its set of commuter lines) is a severe problem. And if Amtrack can extend service up north....
Roads are actually more efficient; every mile of road can carry 30,000 cars per day, however every mile of light rail line can carry only 10,000 people per day.
Clearly you haven't spent enough time in places like New York City, or London. The amount of traffic on the Metro Infrastructure is far greater than what the roads and highways carry.
Think about it, your average 11 car train (NYC) carrys about 1000 people. Keeping that in mind, and how there is a new train every 5 to 7 minutes means that there is anywhere from 12,000 to 5,400 thousand people, per hour, per train line, and per direction
Add in all the other major train lines, Long Island RailRoad, and Metro North, you can easily see how the entire system carries millions of people per day easily.
Sunny Dubey
Boston is unique compared to every other large American city. First off, Boston is right on the coast, so it simply can not be approached from the east (except by boat, of course). Unfortunately, their airport is in EAST Boston, across the harbor from downtown. This means that basically three highways bring all the major traffic into and through Boston. It also meant that primary access to Logan Airport (one of the world's top 10 busiest) was through 2 two lane tunnels under Boston harbor, one in each direction. Since it's not possible to complete the interstate highway 'ring' that encircles most large cities, effectively shunting a lot of traffic around them, all traffic must come through downtown Boston. The two main highways (Interstate 93, which runs N-S and Interstate 90, which runs West) literally meet right at downtown. Their connection was two lanes wide in each direction. Try to imagine what putting over 100,000 cars a day on two lanes looks like (for comparison, the four lane I-405 ringing Los Angeles carries about 80,000 cars a day and traffic jams on it can go for 15-20 miles). Some have been using the public transportation mantra. Fact is, back in the 70's and 80's, Boston spent billions on improving public transit, forgoing interstate highways in the process. Boston's subway and commuter rail system not only carries hundreds of thousands of workers every day, it does so in safe, clean, graffiti-less trains. The MBTA system has a customer approval rating approaching 95%! Problem is, traffic must also travel THROUGH Boston, which means that even if 100% of commuters took the train, there'd still be plenty of traffic downtown! Finally, unlike any other major city, Boston is made up of many neighborhoods, tied together by small, winding streets. The surface street system that serves so many other cities (such as Los Angeles) well, simply does not exist in Boston. A city the size of Boston simply NEEDED the Big Dig for its very survival.
I know I am paranoid, but it's a sign of the times.
What would a well-placed truck-bomb do in the tunnel? Wouldn't such a terrorist attack kill thousands and cause billions in damage?
Has anyone thought of this threat and how we might counter it?
I suggest you read Slashdot
I think the project has been fairly successful overall. I used to ride to my grandmother's house in Quincy in the early '60's and the ride was fairly smooth even around rush hour. When I started to drive you stayed as far away from it as possible.
The cool thing will be the network effects. Roads that connect to the Big Dig will be the better for it.
I agree entirely. The Big Dig is so freakin off topic it is insane, while my submissions about the open source Free Arms Project get nixed and my scoop about SpaceShipOne and Paul got rejected, so one of his buddies could get the scoop credit.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves