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"H-Bomb Secret" Now Online

DrDNA writes "In 1979, the US Government sued Howard Morland, Erwin Knoll and Sam Day at The Progressive Magazine for prior restraint over the planned publication of 'The H-Bomb Secret: How We Got It--Why We're Telling It,' citing national security. Six months later, a Federal appeals court vacated the restraining order on publication, and the article was published. There's an interview about the case with George Stanford, of Argonne National Lab, Illinois, a technical adviser for the Progressive Magazine. After all this time, the Progressive article is now online (4Mb pdf)."

109 of 502 comments (clear)

  1. Should have known.. by Shky · · Score: 5, Funny

    Someone set them up the bomb.

    --
    CC Licensed Serialized Story and Podcast: Ingenioustries
    1. Re:Should have known.. by chrispyman · · Score: 3, Funny

      All your base are belong to us!

    2. Re:Should have known.. by Lane.exe · · Score: 4, Funny
      Once again, Captain Obvious is here to save the day!

      --
      IAALS.
    3. Re:Should have known.. by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 5, Funny

      All your joke are old to us.

      ...but nice revival.

  2. Just in time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    For the Orange alert. Thanks for helping the terrorists!

    1. Re:Just in time by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just in time? I've had a paper copy of this article for 24 years (I bought the magazine when it was first published). Believe it or not, re-publishing something on the internet does not mean it was previously un-available.

      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    2. Re:Just in time by TheAncientHacker · · Score: 2

      And the publication of the PDF by The Progressive was actually months ago. The only thing that's just in time is /. actually noticing it. For that matter, The Progressive sold a t-shirt with the design on it back after the article was published. It had the updated design on it.

    3. Re:Just in time by mabhatter654 · · Score: 4, Informative
      It's not really an issue anyway whether or not terrorists get ahold of this info. Even if you had all the info, for a matter of fact the basics are part of university physics at most schools nowdays, certian components necessary to build an H-bomb are EXTREMELY rare...first you have to have a perfectly working A-BOMB, then enhance it with a certian rare distilled isotope of hydrogen. That's why the feds keep such a close eye on only several particular bom-making items....

      Anyway, it's much more easy and likely that Osama would simply bribe/steal one from some Russian, Chineese, indian, or Pakistani army general down on his luck without proper staff to "account" for an already made nuke!!! When the Cold war was just Us and Russia, it was easy to track nukes.. now that Russia has broken up, there are a frightening number "gone missing" from all the army bases Russia couldn't economically hold.

  3. FYI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    FYI Americans, we are now at Orange Alert. There is a higher level of indication now than ever that SOMETHING is going to happen. Before, we were on Yellow Alert, so it was possible that something was going to happen, but now we are Orange, meaning that it is slightly more likely that something is going to happen. When something happens, we will go to Red Alert, indicating that something has happened, but until that time, we will remain at Orange alert.

    Be Prepared Americans, Something May Happen Today!

    1. Re:FYI by goon+america · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The terror alert system is just a way for politicians to protect themselves. Issuing vague warnings that will not do anything to prevent an attack does nothing but give whomever's ass is on the line the ability to say "I told you so / it's not my fault" if something actually happens.

      Which is why we are probably never going to be at anything other than orange or yellow alert. Because if we ever go to some "reduced" alert level and there is an attack then whoever is in charge of the alert system will get in trouble for not vaguely warning us.

    2. Re:FYI by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Let me know when we reach brown alert.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:FYI by Lost+Penguin · · Score: 5, Funny

      Santas sleigh would need an IFF signal these days.
      I have confidence our Patriot missiles will knock out all eight reindeer.
      If Santa takes a commercial flight, he better arrive WAY early, to check that bag of toys.

      Hmmm, Santa has a beard, headgear, a funny suit, lives in an out of the way place, he IS a loner
      Osama been Santa? <G> (ducks, runs)

      --
      I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
    4. Re:FYI by duffbeer703 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, the alert system matters alot.

      If you are a policeman, an "Orange" alert means that you now have a nearly unlimited amount of easy overtime (paid for by Uncle Sam) available to you. These overtime hours are used to provide security for monuments, bridges, reservoirs, etc, and provide a great opportunity to grab some Z's and get away from the wife.

      The alert system was put in place when idiots in the mainstream press began screaming about how the government refused to warn anyone about the 9/11 attacks. It's a great example of how stupid questions (or problems) lead to stupid answers (or solutions).

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    5. Re:FYI by Pharmboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The terror alert system is just a way for politicians to protect themselves.

      While I do not necessarily disagree with your view of politicians, there are other uses. It may confuse/distract/prevent some actions from happening. It may create some voice traffic and give them some information. It may not. But it does serve more that just cover ass for politicians, or at least it _can_.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    6. Re:FYI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not so. As I type, my little brother is making $25/hr to sit in a running pickup truck next to a public water supply and play starcraft on his laptop.

      It's nice to know politicians when you're a poor college kid looking for some cash.

  4. Online? by Silvers · · Score: 5, Funny

    "After all this time, the Progressive article is now online"

    Not for long.

  5. Is it just me.. by Stigmata669 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    or does it seem seriously questionable to make a direct link to a 4MB file from a magazine that relies at least partially on advertising to pay for the bandwidth?

    It's one thing to crush the server, but the least we can do is look at some ads while we do it.

    --
    Yawn.
    1. Re:Is it just me.. by Davak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it's just you...

      If you post a 4 meg file on your site, you gotta be ready to get it slapped around a bit.

      The magazine should break it up, place it on several ad covered pages, and enjoy the slashdot traffic.

      Data files are different... it's harder to manipulate those.

      PDF is just a big ass text file... there is very little reason to keep it in that format.

    2. Re:Is it just me.. by Stigmata669 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      well by the look of it, the PDF is actually a scan of the original article. I know people flame about deep-linking complaints, but it still seems like we could link to the download page rather than to the file.

      --
      Yawn.
  6. *Awesome* editorial in this article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you read only the first page of only one article posted to Slashdot this year, make it this one. I don't think I've ever seen a more eloquent, and relevant, defense of the First Amendment.

    1. Re:*Awesome* editorial in this article by Davak · · Score: 3, Informative

      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

      Davak

    2. Re:*Awesome* editorial in this article by Pseudonym · · Score: 4, Funny
      If you read only the first page of only one article posted to Slashdot this year [...]

      Too late.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    3. Re:*Awesome* editorial in this article by orthogonal · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Could you please tell me what the first amendment is

      John, is that you, posting as Anonymous Coward?

      We've missed you in Missouri ever since that dead guy beat you, but we've so proud during this Christmas season for all you've done to let those liberals know that America is a Christian nation!

      And thanks for making us safer byAs good Christians, we especially feel safer now thatJohn, I want you to know that the name John Ashcroft will be remembered for years in association with liberty in America!

      After all you've done to dismantle that pesky Fourth Amendment with the Patriot Act, it's especially heartening to learn that you don't know what the First Amendment is!

      Keep up the great work John, and know that I'll be voting for George Bush in 2004 to make sure you spend four more years as our Reichsminis-- I mean, Attorney General!
    4. Re:*Awesome* editorial in this article by Richard+M.+Nixon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ah, but you forget The first amendment is only supposed to apply to those we agree with. Anyone advocating that the law should apply equally to everyone, and that those with unpopular viewpoints have a right to free speech is just unamerican.

      Even reading the Bill of Rights, or The Constitution can be unamerican if you are subversive, which is why Upton Sinclair and Roger Baldwin were arrested for doing so.

      That was a long time ago but in these modern times people are arrested for protesting outside of a free speech zone. And the nerve of some of these people. Can you believe that some people have been caught holding anti-Bush signs within Pro-Bush Zones? They have been rightfully arrested. It would be criminal for the president to see any evidence that people disagree with him.

      Yes, we are heading into a brave new world, and those that don't like it can go to Guantanamo Bay.

      --
      Nobody died when Nixon lied.
      I'm meeting you half way you stupid hippies!
  7. Head in the Sand by Davak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Somebody will eventually post that we should not publish this information because other countries will get it and thus be able to create nuclear weapons.

    Of course, this is bull. But I found this quote from the article puts it best:

    GS: It should by now be clear to everyone that in the past we
    relied far too much on secrecy. We arrogantly assumed that we
    were the only ones who could develop nuclear weapons, and that
    therefore we could retain our monopoly. That kept us from
    pursuing international arrangements that might have held the
    nuclear arms race under some sort of control.


    I don't wanna dive into a political rant here, but I think the balance of power, combat, and international discussion is vital to keeping the world safe from the threat of nuclear war.

    1. Re:Head in the Sand by Davak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Information like this is already known to all the governments that want it.

      If you think mp3 are easily traded, 30 sheets of text/information has been traded and sold a million times over.

      To hide behind this information prevents countries from forming the deals and treaties that really protect us.

    2. Re:Head in the Sand by HeghmoH · · Score: 4, Informative

      RTFA, because this is fairly well covered there.

      First, censorship is bad. Period. It is something where you can very easily and without any sort of a stretch apply the 'slippery slope' principle. As soon as you censor anything, you're well on the way to censoring everything. Unlike, say, automatic assault rifles with clips that hold over ten rounds, 'bad' speech is impossible to objectively define.

      Second, the secrecy around the techniques for constructing nuclear weapons makes a lot of things secret as a byproduct, because of the incredible paranoia and perceived fear by the censors. To keep people from guessing the most secret techniques needed to construct a nuclear bomb, by extension you need to keep secret even the materials and quantities required for construction. From there, you have to make secrets out of a lot of what's involved in mining, refining, processing, and manufacturing. From there, it's very easy to do things like making accident statistics or radiation exposure documentation for the town where the reactor is secret.

      It is also very easy to declare independently-created works as secrets, even though they were not derived from any government program. Imagine doing some heavy research in your local library, constructing a few tests, saying the wrong things to the wrong people, and shortly the FBI shows up and carts off all of your work. This has happened. In the article, they give the example of a member of the House who wrote a letter to the Department of Energy, asking some rather pressing questions about changes in their nuclear program. In their response, they said that not only were the responses secret, the very questions themselves were of a sensitive nature and were now classified. This very highest elected official was therefore not legally allowed to distribute these questions that only came from his own mind!

      In the end, it comes down to something very simple. Freedom of speech is nearly an absolute, and it is also the most important freedom we have. Giving it up is foolish no matter what the reason.

      --
      Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
    3. Re:Head in the Sand by kavau · · Score: 2, Offtopic
      This is so very, very true. Building bigger and better bombs will hardly make the world safer in the long run. I don't know how other people feel about this, but when the senate failed to ratify the nuclear test ban treaty in 1999, I lost a lot of my faith in the United States in just one day.

      Not only on moral grounds, but also on practical grounds, I believe this was the stupidest decision ever made in American politics: The data already collected in past test would have been sufficient to keep America's nuclear arms edge for the better of a century. And banning nuclear tests altogether would secure this edge indefinitely.

      How much moral weight does the U.S. have, if they demand that other countries stop their nuclear weapons program now? None. It's simply the voice of the powerful.

    4. Re:Head in the Sand by Isldeur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Second, the secrecy around the techniques for constructing nuclear weapons makes a lot of things secret as a byproduct, because of the incredible paranoia and perceived fear by the censors. To keep people from guessing the most secret techniques needed to construct a nuclear bomb, by extension you need to keep secret even the materials and quantities required for construction. From there, you have to make secrets out of a lot of what's involved in mining, refining, processing, and manufacturing. From there, it's very easy to do things like making accident statistics or radiation exposure documentation for the town where the reactor is secret.

      [...paragraph cut...]

      In the end, it comes down to something very simple. Freedom of speech is nearly an absolute, and it is also the most important freedom we have. Giving it up is foolish no matter what the reason.


      I think this thinking takes into account a number of assumptions which aren't necessarily tight. Can we expand this line of thinking?

      Say one person discovered some weapon which could destroy all life and the entire world instantly (for argument's sake). Let's say he in some way appreciates the gravity of this creation.

      1. In regards to him, this secret has been "discovered"
      2. In regards to everyone else, it is "undiscovered".

      If he does not publish this material and at some point dies, this secret remains "undiscovered" for the remaining population on the earth for at least that time-being.

      If he publishes it ad hoc to the world now the whole world has it. And here is where this argument you cite fails. It assumes that

      1. People had this technology anyways (they didn't necessarily) and
      2. Everyone on earth is even-tempered, interested in discussion of problems, and sane.

      These are heavy assumptions and I think you'll find they aren't necessarily true.

    5. Re:Head in the Sand by MegaHamsterX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think at the rate technology is advancing in 30 years it would be possible for someone to create a strain of HIV that is airbourne.

      That would be a garage doomsday device, it would spread world-wide and noone would be the wiser for at least a few months.

      This is my fear, not nuclear, but biological weapons using viri made by a lunatic in the woods, far worse than the Unibomber, but with the same motives.

  8. A Good Read by precogpunk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Speaking of the history of the H-Bomb, a great read on the subject is the mammoth Pulitzer Prize winning book The Making of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes. He also wrote Deadly Feasts which I enjoyed even more.

    1. Re:A Good Read by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Making of the Atomic Bomb covers only the pre-war nuclear physics development and the production of the American bomb.

      Dark Sun by Richard Rhodes covers the Soviet atomic bomb development, Soviet spying and the development of the various boosted atomic bombs which ultimatly lead to the Hydrogen Bomb or the Fission-Fusion bomb.

  9. Not so secret anymore by twoslice · · Score: 3, Funny
    --

    From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
    1. Re:Not so secret anymore by omglolbah · · Score: 2, Funny

      The ultimate addition to The Anarcist CookBook ?

  10. damnit, some people just can't shut up. by neurojab · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now we'll have some smartass high school student making an h-bomb in his toolshed, just to show how smart he is. Some things are better left secret, and I think this is one of them. I'm all for the freedom of information in most cases, but I do not believe my neighbors and the billions of people across the world that hate the United States should have access to this kind of information. I know everyone will have nukes eventually, I just hope it doesn't happen until my (future) children can grow up and lead productive lives. Let's not blow the planet up just yet. I happen to like it.

    1. Re:damnit, some people just can't shut up. by neurojab · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly. No one should have them. Ever. The chances of any government de-stabilizing or the weapons falling into the wrong hands are simply too great. To say that more nations should have them to level the playing field is just ludicrous... every new device produced introduces a greater chance a device will be used, and that use will be retaliated against with even greater force.

    2. Re:damnit, some people just can't shut up. by adrianbaugh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah. Your neighbour is probably just itching to do something with the 3kg of weapons-grade plutonium that he doubtless has kicking around in his back yard, not to mention his ample supplies of tritium and carefully shaped high explosive.
      Telling ordinary people how a bomb is made presents negligible threat; it's impractical for them to make one themselves but does give insight into the most significant arms race of the last century. As for other nations and terrorist groups, they have spies to obtain such information for them, and it's still very difficult to obtain the relevant amounts of bomb-grade material.

      --
      "'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
      - JRR Tolkien.
    3. Re:damnit, some people just can't shut up. by aminorex · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually, as technology improves, the cost to an individual of deploying a weapon of mass
      destruction decreases. Eventually, anyone who
      feels like splurging with their milk money
      will be able to destroy the physical structure
      of the universe. The solution is not to
      deprive children of milk, but to put them all
      in separate universes.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    4. Re:damnit, some people just can't shut up. by mpoulton · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Come on, now. Anyone who has taken a college class in modern physics has most of the know-how to build a fusion bomb. Anyone with a degree in physics is more than capable of doing all the necessary calculations to design one. This article provides very little assistance really. The difficult part is not the theory -- it's fairly simple. The challenge lies in the practicalities of actually making one. Obtaining the materials is nearly impossible for most nations, never mind for an individual! This precludes just about everyone except major governments from building them, and it's hard even for them. Successfully assembling one without dying of acute radiation poisoning requires advanced manufacturing facilities and equipment beyond the reach of any but the wealthiest experimenter. It's just not a hazard. *Think* before you decide to restrict information.

      --
      I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
    5. Re:damnit, some people just can't shut up. by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, it's good to see somebody finally thinking of the children.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    6. Re:damnit, some people just can't shut up. by -noefordeg- · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I'm all for the freedom of information in most cases, but I do not believe my neighbors and the billions of people across the world that hate the United States should have access to this kind of information."

      -But you need guns to protect yourself and your family, why not rocket launchers and atomic weapon. Heaven knows that nothing protects you better than some heavy duty atomic weapons.

      Oh, and for the rest of the world, you don't think they could come up with these sorts of things themselves... Remember, most people involved in rocketry and nuclear innovation didn't even grow up in US. US only importet people after the second world war.... Or did you forget?

    7. Re:damnit, some people just can't shut up. by mesocyclone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Frankly, your assertion is very unlikely. Sure, basic physics teaches how to build a fission bomb (although getting the material is really tough unless you have a reactor).

      The invention of the hydrogen bomb was done independently at least twice, both by extremely smart specialists, not your BS physics grad.

      However, the basic design of the Teller-Ulam fusion bomb is now readily available, including many of the relevant equations. A less detailed source is here.

      Because the article is slashdotted, I can't judge what it gives away, but probably not as much as is now readily available (which may be very different from what was available in 1979).

      --

      The only good weather is bad weather.

  11. Google Cache by Stigmata669 · · Score: 2, Informative

    of the preface to the article.

    --
    Yawn.
  12. Re:ahhh by flossie · · Score: 5, Insightful
    [ahhh] the feeling of destroying national security in the name of freedom.

    It's certainly better than destroying freedom in the name of national security.

  13. This reminds me... by meridian · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Of the Radioactive Boyscount who built a nuclear reactor in his shed from uranium paint you find on antiques

    --
    meridian at tha.net
  14. Interesting -- from the interview by Jonathan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    GA: At the end of the trial, the Progressive magazine lost a
    small fortune, even though it managed to get the Morland article
    published without censor. Essentially, it was a case of limited
    private funds versus a bottomless pot of Government gold


    I'm not sure where I stand on the article and its attempted censorship, but I am somewhat amused that one of its authors said the above. Doesn't it sound *exactly* like a typical right-wing diatribe against the government? The article in question was in the well known *leftist* magazine "The Progressive".

  15. Head in the Silicon by whovian · · Score: 4, Funny

    Re-tooled as an introduction to Microsoft's linux survey:

    It should by now be clear to everyone that in the past we relied far too much on secrecy. We arrogantly assumed that we were the only ones who could develop computer operating systems and software, and that therefore we could retain our monopoly. That kept us from pursuing international arrangements that might have held the upsurge on linux under some sort of control.

    --
    To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
  16. Where we've gone from there by phr2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In 1979, The Progressive publishes an article on how to build H-bombs, and our courts hold that our right to free speech is so strong that the government can't do anything to stop the article. Barely 20 years later, Dimitri Sklyarov is arrested for publishing a program that reads copy-protected PDF files. Clearly, copyright infringement is a greater threat to humanity--or at least to politicians' campaign contributions--than H-bombs are.

    1. Re:Where we've gone from there by StandardDeviant · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem, and even calling it a problem is a subject of some debate, is that currently in American jurisprudence (and in many other jurisdictions, from what I understand) the status of source code in relation to speech is ambiguous at best. If source code is speech, then it is entitled to first amendment protections (as interpreted and understood through the framework of the various and sundry opinions of the Supreme Court, of course). Even what "speech" consists of in the traditional 1st amendment sense is ambiguous, from literally acoustic utterances, to the printed word, to potentially inflammatory apparel choices.

      The problem is fundamentally perceptual. The H-Bomb article, being a journalistic work, is easily understood to be "speech" by the citizenry and government. Source code is a somewhat more ephemeral concept that your average FBI agent or federal judge, let alone your average citizen, will have a much harder time relating to conceptually.

      To practitioners of the art, I think it is plainly self-obvious that source code is speech, as it is the creative work of a talented (or at least skilled ;)) individual meant to acheive some action, in much the same way that an artful poem or editorial is written to acheive a conveyance of meaning. If only this was understood, many actions undertaken in the name of the DMCA et. al. would be invalidated by the 1st amendment...

  17. Smart student can already do this. by aepervius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can you really stop people thinking ??? Do you really take the rest of the world that retarded that no other physicist than the US could come up with the "recept" ? If you read the article you might see that *FOUR* nation came up *INDEPENDANTLY* onto the recept.

    Frankly once you know this *IS* feasible, as a physicist then you can come up with a solution. that then the engineereer can work upon and come up with an effective device.

    Secrety is worthless in nuclear weapon run. Only experience and engineering is somethign worth.

    As the article author I wish US , France , Russia and China would have worked together on stoping nuclear proliferation thru treaty , because as we may now observe every country which have money to spend on engineering can get the bomb (Pakistan, India, N-K maybe and whoever else).

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:Smart student can already do this. by jterry94 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In fact, it was the U. S. S. R. that developed the first deliverable hydrogen bomb. However, as is often said, the devil is in the details and some secrecy is wise as it often takes a great deal of time for people to figure out the details.

  18. Interesting Timing by Colymbosathon+ecplec · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Edward Teller, the Father of the H-Bomb, just died this September. From Wikipedia: "He also proposed many peaceful uses of nuclear technologies, including a project to carve out a harbor in Alaska by detonating a hydrogen bomb on the sea floor. While working for the Atomic Energy Commission in the late 1950s and 1960s, he proposed "Project Chariot", in which hydrogen bombs would be used to dig a harbor more than a mile long and half a mile wide to provide a deep-water harbor for coal fields near Point Hope. Various factors, including opposition from the Inupiat people living near Point Hope and the fact that the harbor would be ice-bound nine months of the year, doomed the project."

    Alaska Bugs Sweat Gold Nuggets

  19. usually I dont feed the trolls ... by SuperDuG · · Score: 4, Interesting
    BUT!

    After actually downloading the article and reading the forbidden pages it seems to me that there are many things that need to be made a little clear to those who will comment without ever reading an iota of the article itself.

    First off, Osama Bin Laden does not celebrate christmas. Christmas is a christian holliday in which the Muslim community does not celebrate. This does not mean that all Muslims are terrorists just as it means not all catholics are repbuclicans. While Osama Bin Laden himself has been behind some of the worlds worst acts of terrorism, this should not reflect on all Muslims, and a bit of respect for other religions should be in place, but that would be a matter of decency and humanity.

    Secondly the article itself states that this is in no means a "how-to". Reading this article will do nothing in comparison to going to school to learn about physics and chemistry. The article helps put in lamens terms what exactly is done with the creation of such devices. If you notice this article was supressed during the peak of the cold war. At a time when the US Government was playing shadow games by providing tidbits of information for mass consumption but never enough meat to chew on.

    The government supressed this to make it seem that there was a large amount of complicated procedures and research being placed in their weapons of mass destruction and that they could load these weapons on the same rockets that sent men into space and ahniliate an entire Soviet city at will. Fair to say that creating an H-Bomb is in fact something that is not at all an easily accomplishment to undertake. While it may be possible to obtain the parts neccessary it still requires someone with a vast amount of knowledge to place all the ingredients together.

    I don't think that Al Qaeda or any other terrorist faction will ever be able to design such weapons. I do however think that with the fall of the soviet union and other countries in massive recession that are in fact nuclear that they may be able to purchase said nuclear weapons of mass destruction. So did this article send us to code level orangish red? Nope, but something sure did.

    I am not a sympathist by any means for terrorists or freedom fighters who surpass diplomatic measures to accomplish their goals by bringing death and destruction in its place. These people have lost a sense of equality and humanity and are in fact extremely horrible evil people. Should science be supressed because of fears, should we stop manufacturing cars because they are accessories to crimes (bank robberies, car bombs, etc.) NO.

    Scientific innovations can be used for good or can be used for bad, it is a matter of the beholder of the information as to what will happen with it. This article meerly suggests that there is a procedure and massive science behind weapons of mass destruction, which is apparent that they are not meant to be used for good, yet will be used for killing and destruction. Think of the good the reasearch itself could be done if only the knowledge was used for good, and not as a weapon to bring death and destruction.

    I think this is a prime example of how science for the sake of death is not good, but without the nuclear program we wouldn't have nuclear power. Without a means to deliever said weapons of mass destruction, we wouldn't have a space program. How a redundant communication line for launching said weapons could be used to create the network which has become the worlds internet. There is obviously positive ramifications for the research and design of these technologies, but does that excuse the original intent of the death and destruction even if it was never used to date for such a thing?

    Short of WWII with Japan there has never been a nuclear attack on anyone from anyone in the world. Yet we as americans with our democratic control are responsible for this destruction of property and life, and we did it through our research and science.

    Will our children forgive us, or curse us?

    --
    Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
    1. Re:usually I dont feed the trolls ... by arkham6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Short of WWII with Japan there has never been a nuclear attack on anyone from anyone in the world. Yet we as americans with our democratic control are responsible for this destruction of property and life, and we did it through our research and science.

      Let us not forget that during WWII the targeting of cities and civilians was the norm, starting with Japan's bombing of Shanghi, and the German bombing of Rotterdam and London. Later in the war, with air superiority virtualy allied, huge waves of bombers pounded axis cities day and night. The Americans, with their superior Norden bombsites were able to do daylight bombing, while the British had to resort to nightime city bombing. Attack the workers while they work, and attack them while they sleep. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was only different in that one bomber commited all the destruction, as opposed to hundreds of bombers. Indeed, the two bombings using atomic weapons killed less than some of the other bombings of the war, such as the firebombings of Dresden, Hamburgh and Tokyo.

      I always get a bit irritated by people who demand that the U.S. appologise for using atomic weapons, because they don't know their history. The invasion of Okinawa cost 48,000 American casualties, and close to 200,000 Japanese casualties (Including civilians). And that was just the begining. The human cost of an invasion of Japan was estimated to be over a million lives. While the loss of 100,000 lives in the two bombed cities was bad, it would have been much much worse for the Japanese had the United States NOT used the bomb.

    2. Re:usually I dont feed the trolls ... by squarooticus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Will our children forgive us, or curse us?

      There's another choice, you know: they might thank us.

      --
      [ home ]
    3. Re:usually I dont feed the trolls ... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The human cost of an invasion of Japan was estimated to be over a million lives. While the loss of 100,000 lives in the two bombed cities was bad, it would have been much much worse for the Japanese had the United States NOT used the bomb.

      And therein lies the issue. An invasion of Japan would have cost lives on both sides, many more than were lost by using two atomic bombs. Noone in the longterm learnt from it, noone had to deal with the many dead that would have resulted from an invasion. The lessons that were presented by the 100,000 dead were easily forgotten, precisely because the deaths were all on one side, and were easily dealt. Two bombers dropping two bombs killed 100,000, and it was all too easy.

      The victory over Germany was earnt, precisely because we had to fight them all the way to Hitlers doorstep. Now please do not get me wrong, I understand that a great many people died in the pacific front fighting for our freedoms, and I sincerly thank all the surviviors and the fallen, but the victory over Japan was far too easy to learn any long term lessons from. We now have the bomb, killing a large population is now easy. We tend to forget the people involved, and go after anti ballistic missile systems, so we can throw our bombs at them while they cant throw theirs at ours. We try and regain the same advantage that we had when we dropped the bombs on Japan, lack of the ability to retaliate, so there is no kick back on using these weapons.

      Attacking Afghanistan, Iraq, threatening North Korea, Iran and god knows who else is easy to us western nations because there is little kickback. The US people got to know a bit about civilian casualties when the WTC was hit, and they didnt like it one bit. 3000 people died that day, and the voice of America that day was one of retaliation. And they got it.

      Why do the people who back these wars think Germany, France and other nations were against hte invasion of iraq? Because they have felt the ramifications of war first hand, and fairly recently. They have knowledge that the US, the UK and others are sorely lacking, that of oppression and internal strife. They know that it is better to resolve difficulties through diplomatic channels, however long it takes, rather than in battle. Hitler would never have come about if Germany had been better treated after World War 1. World War 1 would never have taken place if the European royalty had sat down and talked about the assassination of a minor political figure, rather than square off against one another.

      I applaud the current stance taken by Libya. They held secret talks with potential enemies, talks that had to be secret so there was no pressure to deliver. They discussed their problems, and settled on a solution. Some could say they did this because of Iraq, but if this was the case, then Iraq has had a net negative effect on the world. Its a case of the play ground bully making an example of one of his victims. They didnt pay up, you could be next.

    4. Re:usually I dont feed the trolls ... by fermion · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I don't think that Al Qaeda or any other terrorist faction will ever be able to design such weapons. I do however think that with the fall of the soviet union and other countries in massive recession that are in fact nuclear that they may be able to purchase said nuclear weapons of mass destruction. So did this article send us to code level orangish red? Nope, but something sure did.

      My understanding is that the weapon itself is not immensely complicated to design. What is complicated is the precision machining of the parts, the acquisition of the fissionable material, and the delivery mechanism. This last is probably the most complicated, and the reason why Soviet technology may not be such a threat. Even if you have a working machine, it takes some level of skill to get it to get it off the launch pad.

      In the end nuclear weapons appear to be a means to diplomacy. The cost to benifit ratio for them are just not so good. Countries with nuclear capability must be taken serious. Countries without are not. Parties that actually want to destroy things and impose fear do what terrorist organizations of all stripes do. They go in an bomb with conventional weapons. No one knows where the next hit is going to be. The more convectional bombs you have or can contrive, the more powerful you are.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    5. Re:usually I dont feed the trolls ... by JohnsonWax · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, there was never going to be an invasion of Japan. Japan began suggesting surrender as early as Feb 1945 - the main sticking point later in the negotiations being that we wanted something unconditional whereas the Japanese were insisting that the Emperor retain a non-political title.

      The bombs did force an unconditional surrender, but more importantly, it stopped Stalin dead in his tracks, who we had recognized as a grave threat who was now moving aggressively toward Japan. The worst-case scenario here was that Stalin, weakened but holding far more control of Europe and Asia than he could have hoped, could move for a year-round port city on the Pacific. He was clearly willing to commit his citizens to the last man - his ability to send hundreds of thousands of soldiers, including women to their deaths scared the hell out of the other ally leaders. Stalin could move against Japan from the north and take territory from Japan that would be extremely valuable to Russia against a US enemy (Russia entered the war against Japan on Aug 8 by easily invading Manchuria). Stalin realized that the US was the only other power to escape WWII with any resources, and that the two would be in conflict.

      Stalins best scenario was to move against Japan after a successful US invasion - both US and Japanese forces would be weak and the US would not be prepared for an invasion from the north. Russia could more easily bring forces to the location than the US, and Russia could win most or all of the island. Stalin realized that the US would buckle under the scale of the Russian army, particularly since the US public would oppose defending real estate given that the real enemy (Japan) was defeated.

      The US position was difficult. We couldn't afford to invade given that scenario - Japan could be lost to Russia regardless of whether we defeated Japan or not. Quite possibly the bombs were viewed as the solution to both problems - first, we could quickly end the war with Japan without giving Russia time to become entrenched, and avoiding any further invasions. Second, we send a message to Stalin that we can defeat his armies without committing US soldiers, and that we can bring resources to bear much more quickly than he can (how long does it take to hopscotch a B-29 across the Pacific vs. mobilizing hundreds of thousands of troops). Stalin knew nothing about the bombs until they were dropped but FDR certainly made it clear to him throughout the war that US resources were as limitless as the US wished them to be, so he had to assume the worst. Stalin made it clear to FDR that the number and commitment of his troops were as limitless as he wished them to be, so we had to assume the worst as well.

      It's not pleasant to think that the bombs were used against the Japanese as a demonstration to the Russians, but that's quite likely to have been the case. The only possible upside to this is that Japan had a much brighter future not being an iron curtain nation.

    6. Re:usually I dont feed the trolls ... by Chagrin · · Score: 3, Informative

      ...and don't forget that in the fire bombing of Tokyo and of Dresden, Germany there were 100,000 and 150,000+ casualties, respectively.

      --

      I/O Error G-17: Aborting Installation

    7. Re:usually I dont feed the trolls ... by smootc-m · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your comments are highly speculative and most mainstream historians with extensive access to Japanese, American and Russian archives from the period would not agree with your conclusions.

      I suggest you read "The Last Great Victory" by Stanley Weintraub. It gives a very good and balanced account of the last days of WW II.

      A few points:

      Stalin knew about the atomic bomb from his spies within Los Alamos. Truman also told him about the bomb at Potsdam before they were dropped.

      Stalin was asked by the US and Britain to invade Manchuria. There was great fear that the Japanese Army would not surrender in Manchuria. Only the Soviet Union had the logistical wherewithall to deal with that eventuality.

      It is true that the Japanese cabinet was divided as to surrender in the waning days of WW II. We knew what was going on because of our interception of the Japanese diplomatic code.

      It is likely in retrospect that the Navy's blockade of Japan would have worked and caused Japan's surrender. But the political realites of the time demanded all and any means be used to effect Japan's surrender. To Truman the atomic bomb was another tool to bring Japan to the surrender table.

      As to the casualty figures for the invasion of Japan, most historians agree the figure of 1 million allied casualties is probably way too high. The actual figure for allied casualty estimates ranged as high as 265,000 with an estimate of 76,000 killed in action. This is still a very high figure and not much comfort to the troops already in the Pacific theater and those being transfered from Europe to the Pacific in preparation for Olympic (the invasion of Kyushu).

      No estimate was given for Japanese casualties, although they would likely be far higher given the experience with the invasion of Okinawa. But be mindful that the primary focus of allied war planners was on allied casualties.

      Even though this more realistic casualty figure is lower than the 1 million which has achieved an almost mythic dimension, it is still a large number and Truman was determined to use any means at his disposal to shorten the war and the casualty figure.

      As for the use of the atomic bomb as a "demonstration" to deter Stalin, this is simply revisionist history. It is clear from the records of the time, the bombs were used to shorten the war against Japan, not to frighten the Soviet Union. We only had 2 bombs available in any event at the time. And we used both of them.

  20. Nothing I didn't learn in Highschool Physics.... by Avihson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    With all the whining about national security, I was expecting to see detailed blueprints. But instead we get poor quality diagrams. Hell, since the collapse of the Soviet Union, real plans for tested models are probably available on the international arms market for the right price, or even surplus parts. Or you can just pick them up from France, Sudan, or on the black market in Iraq.

    I saw better diagrams in highschool textbooks from that era. Go to a use book store. The theory has been out there, but the precision parts and the highly toxic and radioactive components are just a trifle hard to come by.

    I know that you alarmists believe that the local militia is going to hurry over to Ace Hardware and get all the supplies tonight to be the first one on the block to have their own H-Bomb. Can't let those Pinkoes and Furriners beat them to it.

  21. Censored again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Slashdot did what the gov't couldn't, they've censored the site. The site is down now, is the document mirrored anywhere?

  22. What to publish... by Snuffub · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of my professors was sued by the riaa for trying to publish a paper on SDMI. When they were threatening to sue he would always joke that he should have just been a physicist and published a paper on how to build a nuclear bomb, because we all know that at least that is legal.

    --
    --aiee
  23. Re:ahhh by flossie · · Score: 2, Insightful
    How 'free' will you feel when you're living in fear of not being able to placate some 'rouge state' into not attacking you?

    I think you must be living in a time warp. The only 'rouge' states left are Cuba, China and N. Korea. It's nonsense to think of any of them attacking western democracy. If you mean rogue states, I am sorry to say I live in one of them; Blair completely flouted international law when he joined Bush on his crusade in the Persian Gulf.

  24. Re:Immediate Doom Of The Earth Predicted by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 3, Insightful
    and eventally some madman will create a horrible disease that will kill everyone and everything.
    Wait a minute, wasn't the world supposed to end through nuclear warfare? Or because of the Y2K bug? Or perhaps because we got suffocated with CO2?

    Every 5 minutes someone "discovers" that the world is going to end because of something science came up with. This is getting really old now. Could all those pessimists finaly realise this planet is going to be here for quite some time. What else would God play with?
  25. The secret has been available for ages by adrianbaugh · · Score: 3, Informative

    Even if this particular article hasn't previously been available you could always visit nuclearweaponarchive.org to find out the principles behind a Teller-Ulam bomb (and much else, besides). It won't give you the non-deducible R&D results, but neither does this article (in fact, even the Progressive argues that these should not be publically divulged).

    --
    "'I pass the test,' she said. 'I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.'"
    - JRR Tolkien.
  26. Tsk tsk by mongbot · · Score: 5, Informative

    People always get that quote wrong.

    Captain: What happen?
    Operator: Somebody set up us the bomb.
    Operator: We get signal.
    Captain: What!
    Operator: Main screen turn on.


    I know it doesn't sound right, but that's how poorly translated it was.

    1. Re:Tsk tsk by SUB7IME · · Score: 4, Funny

      Good point. The rest of the "All Your Base" dialogue was an exquisitely-crafted, grammatically-correct gem of proper English. The 'up/us' transposition was the only glaring error...

    2. Re:Tsk tsk by 56ker · · Score: 4, Funny

      Going back to the actual article - in the name of national security the pdf file has been slashdotted. :) Mind you being 4Mb they must have exceeded their bandwidth allowance pretty quickly.

    3. Re:Tsk tsk by mraymer · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I do believe that only on Slashdot would we see someone correct an All Your Base quote, and then see that correction get modded to +4, Informative (for now anyway).

      As long as the mods are feeling good about this topic for now, I'll just add that the poor translation comes from the Genesis game "Zero Wing" in case someone out there didn't know.

      --

      "To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking

  27. Much more interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    is this:
    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/29 /235522 5&mode=thread&tid=99
    which references www.portchicago.org
    The howtos of thermonuclear are all out there in userland; this _old news_ Progressive article doesn't help much. The above links are _FAR_ more useful, IYAM(AIAAP). (If You Ask Me, And I Am A Physicist.)

  28. A Slashdotting! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Aha! What more perfect a way to protect the article from downloads than to slashdot it! Brilliant plan by the governmment!

  29. Torrent... by Nate+Eldredge · · Score: 4, Informative

    The file is slashdotted. Here is a .torrent so all you bittorrent users (that should be all of you by now) can get it.

  30. You got it all wrong by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    The trouble is, now these terrorists will know that they can hogtie the FBI and who knows how many government lawyers in a colossal waste of time simply by threatening to publish news!

    We do not need this calamity confounding our precious givernement custodians of truth and prosperity. This is a windfall for the terrorists and a sad day for true Americans everywhere.

    1. Re:You got it all wrong by smack_attack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Free Speech is terrorism, YOU JUST SAID IT!

      Holy freakin' crap, I knew the day would come!

  31. Mass Media Easier to Sensor by LinuxIsStillBetter · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Secretary of Energy James Schlesinger took to the telephone to warn editors of leading newspapers that they should not rise to the defense of the First Amendment in The Progressive's case. Secretary of Defense Harold Brown delivered the same message in person. There was probably no need for them to go to all that trouble: Many of the mass media (though not all) proved themselves pathetically eager to support Government censorship. Their notion was that the First Amendment stopped where "national security" began.

    Thank God those days are behind us. The 21st century is a much more enlightened time.

    Sadly, consolidation of the media and reduced competition will make them more likely to roll over on things like this in the future.

  32. Re:Automatics with 10 Round Clips by HeghmoH · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You have to love right-wing reactionaries who absolutely must jump down the throats of anybody who even makes a statement that could be construed as a vague reference to the possibility of gun control.

    Please read my post again. I did not, and will not, say anything about the constitutionality or correctness of gun control. I merely stated that "automatic assault rifles with clips that hold over ten rounds" is a completely objective criterion. Give the same gun to two completely different people with completely different backgrounds and they will come up with the same answer to the question, "Does this gun conform to this rule?" Whereas any censorship of speech necessarily comes from subjective criteria; it is inherent in the nature of speech. Subjective criteria are much more dangerous, because they can easily be twisted by the enforcers of the law.

    Also, at the risk of starting a flame war, the first amendment is more important than the second. It is more important than the entire rest of the bill of rights combined. Without the right to speak out about injustice, none of your other rights are worth anything. Again, I'm not going to actually go into my position on gun control because that is completely off-topic, but given the choice between the two, I'd choose the first amendment over the second any day, any time, any place.

    --
    Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
  33. I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. by Latent+Heat · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Oppenheimer famously quoted from the Hindu scriptures "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds" upon the first A-bomb test at Almagordo. A lot of people took it to mean that Oppenheimer was reflecting on letting the nuclear genie out of the bottle, but apparently it had a more personal meaning. Vishnu was trying to impress upon a prince that he needed to do his duty fighting a war the prince wanted no part of, so Vishnu appeared in one of his more terrifying avatars to convince the prince. I heard it said that Oppenheimer saw himself as the reluctant prince, who was required to do his duty in helping with the war effort, and the bomb test was the fearsome visage of Vishnu, urging him to do what came next, i.e., prepare for using the A-bomb in the war.

    Nowadays we are into multi-culturalism, and besides, there are now many immigrants from India in various walks of life in American society, and then there was George Harrison and all of that, so the comfort level with Indian culture and Hindu religious icons is much better these days. But back then, Oppenheimer was already suspect for being somewhat left-of-center in his politics and for being somewhat of an egghead (to use swing-era slang), and being Jewish in America of that time already made a person suspect of not worshipping the same God, perhaps in the way being Muslim in America does today, and gosh, quoting some obscure Hindu scripture really put a person way in left field.

    But the nagging, unanswered question I have is this: isn't "I am become death" ungrammatical or am I missing some fine point. I can understand "I am death" (present tense) or "I have become death" (past perfect? -- I am not up on grammer), but I always thought "I am become death" was the result of some mistranslation on the order of "all your base."

    1. Re:I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. by Earlybird · · Score: 4, Informative
      But the nagging, unanswered question I have is this: isn't "I am become death" ungrammatical or am I missing some fine point. I can understand "I am death" (present tense) or "I have become death" (past perfect? -- I am not up on grammer), but I always thought "I am become death" was the result of some mistranslation on the order of "all your base."

      It's just an archaic, poetic way of saying things. The Bible is a good example: "I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children" (Psalms 69:8, which later goes: "My time is not yet come", another antiquated phrasing).

    2. Re:I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. by Brahmastra · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, a lot of scholars think Oppenheimer mis-quoted the Bagavad Gita. In sanskrit, the word "kaal" could mean both death as well as time. In this case, the verse is supposedly more accurately translated as "Time I am, the destroyer of worlds"

    3. Re:I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. by Pedrito · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I am become" is an archaic form, I'm guessing derived from the French "Je suis devenu" which is the same literally, but means: "I became"

      There are a few French verbs that conjugate this way in the past tense (the Passe Compose tense to be precise). The rest are closer to our Perfect tense.

      I'm just taking a guess on the French thing, but there was a good deal of French influence on English at one point.

  34. Re:All of you absolutists.... by HeghmoH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You misunderstand, badly.

    I am against censorship. I am not against secrecy.

    Secrecy is saying, "I do not wish to publish my personal information."

    Censorship is the government telling you, "Publishing your personal information is illegal, and we will put you in jail if you do so."

    Secrecy is fine. If the government wants to keep secrets, that's fine, up until the point where it uses censorship to do so. Keeping secrets with encryption, lockboxes, barbed-wire fences, and armed guards is fine. Keeping secrets by forbidding publication of material gathered from public sources is not fine.

    Until and unless you understand the difference between secrecy and censorship, and how it is possible to be completely against one while accepting of the other, there is no point in responding.

    --
    Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
  35. Re:Terrorist Threat by cfuse · · Score: 4, Funny
    Is it just me or is putting information about chemical/biological/nuclear weaponry in prominent places on the internet not just asking for trouble? I know I know, obscurity is no security, but it beats the hell out of this kind of stuff.

    I know how you feel, this whole "freedom of speech" thing is just wrong! I firmly believe that the government has our best interests at heart, and would only conceil information that could be used by evil people (probably terrorists). I feel so much safer knowing that upstanding people like George Bush are in office.

  36. Double Standards? by saikatguha266 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We always say security through obscurity is bogus. Case in point -- closed source software, squlching of bug/expolit reports, use of the DMCA to silence hackers instead of fixing the exploits et al.

    When it comes to national security, what makes people think secrecy makes the nation any more secure?

    1. Re:Double Standards? by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Informative
      When it comes to national security, what makes people think secrecy makes the nation any more secure?
      Because bitter experiences shows that it *does* work.

      In WWII we slightly improved our Fleet submarines to dive 150 deeper than prewar and kept that change secret. Many a sailor owes his life to the fact that Japanese never set their depth charges deeper than the publically known pre-war depth. (And many a ton of Japanese shipping was sunk by those sailors.)

      During the Cold War the broadcast frequency to our SSBN's was kept busy 24/7, if there was not enough official traffic, then messages were repeated, or other filler material was broadcast. As a result, our SSBN OPTEMPO could not be derived from the volume of traffic. (Traffic volume is an important indicator in COMINT, increased traffic almost always means Something Is Up.)

      These are two of many examples. Security by obscurity (real security, not the bogus examples you provide) is a valuable part of a security toolbox, the error most amateurs make is to depend on it standalone. (Another example is a burgular who cannot dodge a camera he does not know about, nor can an interloper devise a counter to a measure he does not know exists.)
  37. Don't make fun of the alerts system! by roystgnr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If it wasn't for the ability to distill information about imminent danger into a series of colored lights, the government would be forced to release specific information about upcoming terrorist threats, which could eliminate the advantage they have over less important Americans in personally avoiding those threats.

    1. Re:Don't make fun of the alerts system! by whovian · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I would think Red == (chatter about specific targets with a timetable | attack in progress). I think that's fair. I think genernal vigilance for the color level is fair.

      What I don't find fair (to the public) is the indignant way Mr. Ridge handles the press. His responses serve to propagandise and/or scare the public, IMO. To wit:

      http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/12/ 20 031221.html


      OK. Back to our regularly scheduled topic....
      --
      To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
  38. Re:not quite right... by saikatguha266 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The gamma reflecting surface is the inner surface of the bomb container -- which is about a feet or so clear of the imploding ball. So the implosion as such would not harm it. I assume you mean the explosion would destrow the reflector -- which is true; however particulate matter from the explosion (gasses, debris etc) travel slower than the EM radiation and the billionth of a second difference between the radiation being reflected of the inner surface and the expanding gasses blowing out the shell is enough for the radiation to turn the foam coating around the fussion candle into plasma yielding in a compression of the fusion chamber starting the chain reaction. I don't see anything incorrect here.

  39. So? The Government already knew... by HEMI426 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The government looked in to how hard it would be for people to cull together a working nuclear weapon design from available information years ago.

    "Interestingly enough, the United States government conducted a controlled experiment called the Nth Country Experiment to see how much effort was actually required to develop a viable fission weapon design starting from nothing. In this experiment, which ended on 10 April 1967, three newly graduated physics students were given the task of developing a detailed weapon design using only public domain information. The project reached a successful conclusion, that is, they did develop a viable design (detailed in the classified report UCRL-50248) after expending only three man-years of effort over two and a half calendar years. In the years since, much more information has entered the public domain so that the level of effort required has obviously dropped further."

    From The Nuclear Weapon Archive: a Guide to Nuclear Weapons

    That was back in 1967, a bit more than thirty-six years ago. It probably takes a lot less digging nowadays.

    1. Re:So? The Government already knew... by jackbird · · Score: 2, Funny

      3 people expended 3 man-years over 2.5 calendar years? I want some of their coffee.

  40. Hmmmm :) by gt25500 · · Score: 2, Funny

    After all this time, the Progressive article is now online (4Mb pdf).

    No... no it's not online... anymore :/

    --
    _________ Help me get a PSP!
  41. Re:Automatics with 10 Round Clips by FCAdcock · · Score: 4, Informative

    Without the second amendment the first amendment is pretty hard to enforce. Please forgive me for my bluntness here, but I own a pistol or three, and I speak my mind. I would much rather have people tell me that I can't speak my mind than have them tell me that I can't own my firearms. If you take my firearms I cann't keep you from taking my speech. If you take my speech, I'll just use my firearm to take it back. Yes, I do live in Mississippi, yes I do drive a truck, and no I am not undeucated, violent, or poor.

    --
    --Forest C. Adcock--
  42. "The H-Bomb Secret" by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative
    If you're into this, there's a book, "The H-Bomb Secret", which contains the Progressive article, the story of the lawsuit, and more technical details. The government embarassment around the story came from the fact that it was put together from unclassified information.

    There are ongoing rumors that a way exists to build a fusion bomb without a fission trigger. Efforts were made to develop such a weapon, the "pure fusion" bomb, in the 1950s. The "neutron bomb" was an outgrowth of that effort, although it is not a pure fusion weapon. There's a whole conspiracy theory on this, revolving around Sam Cohen, who developed the neutron bomb, and "red mercury".

    The "red mercury" thing is probably disinformation, but given the amount of work LLNL has put into pulsed fusion, there may be a way to do this by now.

    1. Re:"The H-Bomb Secret" by cpghost · · Score: 2, Informative

      it was put together from unclassified information.

      The information was unclassified for very good reasons. There is absolutely nothing technical in the Progressive article, that was not already common knowledge, even back in 1979. Heck, even highschool textbooks showed the basic principle, with diagrams and all, and every physics sophomore student knew at least theoretically, how to build a fusion bomb.

      The real secret is the Engineering part, not the widely known physics: What kind of material do you use? Electronics? And, most importantly, geometry! Even this is not really secret, it just requires digging out publicly available papers.

      The biggest challenge to everyone willing to put an H-bomb togther, is to find a test area! Every A-bomb (and of course H-bomb) test would immediately trigger sensors all around the world! The kind of vibrations is very typical, and specialists can tell, simply by looking at the waveform what kind of device detonated, how strong it was, where it happened, etc.

      Oh, and testing nukes is illegal for non-governmental institutions everywhere in the world. The only practical way to develop such weapons is to do it in a rogue state, that refuses to participate in the non-proliferation treaty. Or, do it on the hidden side of the moon (but then, you'd have so much resources that you won't bother with H-bombs anymore!)

      --
      cpghost at Cordula's Web.
    2. Re:"The H-Bomb Secret" by Animats · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The biggest challenge to everyone willing to put an H-bomb togther, is to find a test area!

      Not really. We still don't know for sure if that detonation in the South Indian Ocean on September 22, 1979 was a South African nuclear test, an Israeli nuclear test, or what. Whatever it was, somebody got away with it.

  43. Happening all the time by Slur · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Take a look around and see how many American newspapers and other news outlets reported the fact that Colin Powell's presentation to the U.N.S.C. prior to "Operation Iraqi Freedom" was plagiarized from a 12-year-old thesis paper. You'd think this salacious bit of news would have been splattered all over every front page. Instead it appeared in only a few local independent newspapers. It was published almost immediately in the U.K., feeding the groundswell of opposition to the US position. In the US very few people even know about it now! Whenever I hear Monday morning quarterbacks talking about the reasons why the intelligence was bad or why we shouldn't have jumped in without planning, etc., they never bring this glaring bit of bad intelligence up. Either they don't know about it, or they believe it would be blasphemy to disparage the character of Colin Powell. At least Gen. Powell, to his credit, was very much against taking the case he did to the U.N., but in the end he did what a good soldier does.

    --
    -- thinkyhead software and media
  44. An Omen of things to come... by Sir.Cracked · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you read the original article and the articles published with it, you may notice something that jumped out at me. It was later made moot by the government giving up the ghost on the injunction, but before they did, they made a claim that "technical" information was different from other forms of speech and therefore not afforded First Amendment rights.

    Does this sound vaguely familiar to anyone from a more recent case? Perhaps I'll jog your memory. In the DeCSS case, it was argued that Code is not protected because it has functional value. In effect it is technical rather than political or other speech. In this case, it doesn't seem to be the government making the assertion, rather an organization. But that would be misleading. The DMCA represents a restraint on speech just as broad as the Energy Act used against this article. The identity of the party pushing for the censorship is irrelevant. It's the laws with over broad, sweeping generalizations on what we can, and cannot say, as well as the idea that there is protected and unprotected speech that are truly dangerous. Surely some forms of speech are distasteful in the extreme, and prompt a gut reaction that they should not be allowed. But once you establish a form of speech that is officially "not OK", The worst of your obstructions as a censor are over.

    What part of of this is confusing?

    "That Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and consult for their common good, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    It's straight forward, black and white. Our nations third grade students can easily understand it. But once you add even ONE exception, however well meaning it might be, the floodgates have opened, and the end result is the muddle we have today. Sufficiently muddled, the citizenry are too afraid to use the rights they might have, for fear of a costly lawsuit, and then they basically don't have those rights. Then we require people like The Progressive, 2600, Penthouse and Lary Flint, and anyone else willing to put their livelihoods and privacy on the line for our freedom.

    The base point is this. As soon as something I can personally say out loud becomes Illegal, the whole of my freedom of speech is gone. As soon as something I could sit down and write with my own pen becomes illegal, my freedom of press is gone. Be it technical specifications, computer code, poetry, a political indictment, a story about rape, or a shopping list, If one of those things is illegal, eventually fear will make them all impossible. And once our freedom of speech is gone, Our ability to claim to live in a free society will be a farce.

    --
    Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?
  45. Glad I'm safe here in Oz... by Goonie · · Score: 3, Funny

    We're not worried - we have our trusty anti-terrorism fridge magnets to protect us!

    --

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
    --Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
  46. Very O)ld news by sglines · · Score: 2, Informative

    Why are we reporting on things that were talked about on the NANOG mailig list a year ago? See http://www.cctec.com/maillists/nanog/historical/02 08/msg00403.html

  47. My favorite quote by Oriumpor · · Score: 3, Funny

    [quoteblock]A graduate student at the University of Alabama, who knows people who work in Oak Ridge, told me...[/quoteblock]

    Lemme tell ya, I would have omitted that source.

  48. Practical H-Bomb Construction Details by CodeBuster · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am not a PhD nuclear physicist, but it is my understanding that even if one has an understanding of the general design and materials required for a hydrogen bomb the practical details of constructing it in such a way that you get the desired effect (i.e. thermonuclear detonation) requires intimate knowledge of a vast number of mind numbing details, extensive testing, and a large body of experience, test data, and associated resources. Even then it is never a sure thing which is why even the United States must conduct extensive testing and maintenance in order to guarantee the continued viability of its stockpile (weapons are designed to be used not stored for decades and then used). It is probably for this reason more than any other that a functional and deliverable H-Bomb is and probably always will be beyond the resources of all but the most advanced first world nations and certainly not the domain of terrorist organizations. The dirty bomb is a far more likely scenario with the terrorists...the fully functional H-Bomb is light years beyond their understanding and construction capabilities.

    1. Re:Practical H-Bomb Construction Details by cdn-programmer · · Score: 2

      You are correct - you are not a nuclear physicist.

      You do need to appreciate that the 1st atomic bombs were built in the 1940's and that the first H-Bomb was envisioned and for the most part also built in the 1940's.

      After learning that a bomb _could_ be built it only took the Russians a couple years to actually build them (both nuclear and thermonuclear).

      I personally would not have considered the USA or Russia to have been particularly advanced in the 1940's.

  49. "Assualt Rifles" vs "Assualt Weapons" by PinkyGigglebrain · · Score: 2, Informative

    A bit off topic, but;

    The term "Assualt Rifle" is defined in military text books (sorry, no link handy), part of the definition describes that to be classed as an "Assualt Rifle" it must be capable of "full auto", ie, more than one round fired when you pull the trigger. True assualt rifles have been illegal in the USA for civilian use since before WW2, you can get a permit but it costs a bundle and the ATF, FBI, et al, get to check you out with a colonoscope. Same goes for suppressors, aka "silencers".

    The term "Assualt Weapons" on the other hand has no set definition, its just something the congress critters and state politico's shout about when ever someone uses a civilian nock off of a true assualt rifle in a crime. The AK-47 that is always touted as an assualt weapon is in fact a true assualt rifle and controled under the laws relating to ownership of automatic firearms, but the "AK-47's" used in the "schoolyard massacres" are in fact a civilian version that can only fire in semi-auto. All of the "Assualt Weapons" that have been banned in various states CAN NOT fire in full auto as purchased. Yes, some "Assualt Weapons" can be modified to fire full auto, most can't, or at least not easily, and yes there are exceptions to this, nothing is ever absoulute.

    All the laws to restrict or ban "Assualt Weapons" acomplish is deprive the average citizen of firepower that is close to what they will face if the people ever have to prevent the imposition of a tyrany through the force of arms, and even then the military will be better armed/trained/prepared. Don't think our troops would fire on unarmed civilians, two words, "Kent State",
    http://www.dispatch.com/news/newsfea00/ma y00/kentst0503.html

    The fact of the mater is that a revolver can fire more rounds per second than an Assualt Weapon", the AKS just has more rounds to fire, and I have seen a revolver fire 16 rounds in under 4 seconds, even an M-16 cant beat that.

    1. Re:"Assualt Rifles" vs "Assualt Weapons" by FCAdcock · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, there are set guidelines for what is considered an assault rifle.

      An assault rifle must conform to these guidelines, else it is not an assault rifle.

      1. Must fire in fully automatic mode.
      2. Must fire low calibre rounds (.223 for example, as opposed to the .303 which is a MUCH larger round.)
      3. Must be small enough to be carried and fired by one person of average size.

      That means that your civilian AR-15 clones (such as the Bushmaster .223 that the beltway sniper used), and other non fully automatic rifles are just rifles. not assault rifles. Also, larger fully automatic weapons such as the B.A.R. are not considered assault rifles. Same goes with large weapons such as the SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon), or heavy machine guns are not assault rifles.

      Ignorance is no excuse.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
  50. Precious Government Custodians v. un-Americans by instarx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am constantly amazed at the people who are quite willing to destroy the Constitution in order to save it. They are also often the same people who use the term "true Americans" a lot to define anyone who disagrees with them as being un-American. Strangely enough they are often horrible spellers as well.

    Claiming this article is an aid to terrorists is silly. Does anyone really think the rest of the world lives in grass huts and only the US has physicists and engineers? All this bomb-making information is old stuff and has been available openly for decades. For example, just because all the technical information to build a 747 is readily available doesn't mean that terrorists can just slap one together. If you need one you buy it or steal it. Same for nuclear weapons.

    I suggest that we just forget the Constitution and form a secret government (made up of true-Americans of course) where we Americans (true-Americans and un-Americans alike) don't know who is in charge. That way we wouldn't aid the terrorists by actually publishing the names of our precious custodians and exposing them to risk. While we are at it why don;t we just make these true-Americans custodians for life. After all, they wouldn't do anything BAD, would they?

    I don't trust the government one inch, and that is exactly WHY I am a patriot.

  51. Censoring Bomb Info on the Internet by billstewart · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It's nice to see this posted. Various politicians keep trying to censor the Internet, demanding that bomb-making information be illegal. Dianne Feinstein is the most prominent offender. By contrast, back when I was a kid, our standard school fieldtrip was to go to the colonial-era duPont gunpowder mill museum and learn how they made gunpowder and ground flour using water wheels. (Hint: build your mill buildings with big heavy stone walls on three sides and a wimpy wood wall facing the river so that when it explodes, the explosion will blow over the river and not set the other mills on fire...)

    • When you talk about the First Amendment and the Internet and bombs, people like DiFi say "Oh, no, the First Amendment doesn't protect dangerous information, it's about things like pornography."
    • When you talk about the 1st, the Internet, and pornography, they say "Oh, no, it's not about that, it's about protecting non-obscene speech".
    • When you talk about tobacco advertising, they say "Oh, no, it's not about commercial speech, it's about protecting *political* speech."
    • But when you talk about campaign finance reform, they say "Oh, no, elections are *way* too important to let anybody actually fund the political speech they believe in, why that would let *money* corrupt politics."
    And all that was just with liberals in charge - wonder what Ashcroft will come up with next.
    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  52. A telling comment by Triskele · · Score: 2, Insightful
    From the editorial:

    What we learned last spring is that the Government of the United States is convinced that it must keep the people of this nation ignorant and slothful so that they can lead the only pleasant life while the rest of the world marches towards nuclear Armageddon.

    What I have learned over the last few years is that too many Americans believe they have a right to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" regardless of of whether this deprives others in the world of their "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness". We are fast becoming global tyrants in the name of preserving our own freedom and "pleasant life". For every liberation of a tryannised population from a petty despot like Saddam there are many more populations slaving away producing raw resources (gold, oil, etc) and goods (Nike and the EPZs) for cheap consumption by the new Romans.

    --

    --
    USA: home of the world's largest terrorist training camp.

  53. Some facts about atomic weapons by freality · · Score: 3, Informative

    I just happened to write an article about atomic weapons recently (though not quite as good as this one ;). I'd appreciate correction and contributions, esp. facts about economic costs and radiological wastes and sicknesses.

    - There was a betting pool at the Manhattan Project over whether or not the Earth's atmosphere would be consumed in a planet-wide fireball during the first atomic test explosion (Trinity).

    - The second explosion of an atomic device was over the mainly civilian target of Hiroshima, Japan, later that year. President Truman, upon hearing of the successful explosion, said it was "the greatest day in history." 70,000 people died instantly, 200,000 died in total. At Nagasaki, 3 days later, 40,000 people died instantly, 140,000 died in total. Contrary to the initial reports by the U.S. Government that the attacks had shortened the war considerably, it has come to light that Japan's Emporer had agreed to contional surrender before these attacks. The only condition was that he remain Emporer and so the Japanese state remain intact. However, with the awesome destuctive will and power of the U.S. demonstrated, we emerged from the attacks as the sole nuclear power in the world, and largely determined the shape of the post WWII world, in which we later came to be the sole great power.

    - As mentioned in the linked PDF, the second h-bomb test (Bravo) went awry, with a yield of twice what was thought possible, 15 megatons. The plume was 62 miles wide, 40 miles high. The exclusion zone after the test was 850 miles wide, or about 1% of the Earth's surface. The fallout cloud reached a distance that would, in comparison, cover the entire U.S. North-Eastern Seaboard.

    - Testing was expanded to high atmospheric explosions, where h-bombs were exploded in the ionosphere. They variously disrupted, destroyed and created new layers in the Van Allen Belts, the natural magnetic layers that shield the Earth from solar and cosmic radiation. Those belts have been changed ever since.

    - The U.S. nuclear power monopoly ended with a series of Russian tests that yielded the largest explosion yet, at 50 megatons. The shockwave rounded the Earth 3 times. The Russian program had discovered a 3rd stage fusion mechanism, which could have led directly to 100-150 megaton weapons, and virtually unlimited theoretical maximums.

    - The U.S. underground testing in Nevada has exploded nearly 1000 devices, turning a large region there into a pockmarked surface, much like the face of the moon.

    - At last count, there are 12 countries (U.S., Russia, U.K., France, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea, South Africa, Israel, Iraq, Iran) who are known to have, or reasonably suspected of having had, active nuclear weapons programs, 7 of which have demonstrated capability (the first 7 of those). This does not include the probable fragmentation of the Soviet stockpile after the collapse of the U.S.S.R, smaller NGOs, or describe the liklihood of nuclear arms being sold. There were reports, just before the recent reversal of M.E. policy by the Bush Administration (i.e. to no invade Syria and Iran) that Russia and China had deployed nuclear missiles along the northern borders of those countries, likely pointed at Israel, the strongest nuclear power in the M.E..

    - The combined (known) stockpiles of the U.S. and Russia (including former states) is estimated to be around ~3 Gigatons accross ~10k warheads each. At a total of about 6 Gigatons of explosive force, we're plenty close to the 75-100GT energy of the (K-T event) asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, thank you very much.

    - The U.S. has resumed manufacturing the nuclear trigger devices. Maintenance and testing is now almost fully virtualized, being done mainly in simulation, using the U.S.'s most powerful computers provided by IBM.

    - Ironically (or perhaps obviously), Japan, the only victim of nuclear warfare, is using what is now the most powerful supercomputer in the world for a completely different purpose: to simulate the natural processes of the Earth.