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Wireless APs in Homebrew Coffee Shops?
An anonymous reader writes "Having seen lots of complaints about the overpriced T-Mobile Wireless APs in Starbucks ($10/hr) got me thinking about setting up a wireless AP for the small, family-owned coffeeshop in my town under the tip jar model. I'm assuming ~$100 for the router, ~$500 for a PC to use to control quotas (to prevent over-zealous Kazaa users, block spammers and script kiddies and other would-be abusers) - but what software should I be using? Do enough people have 802.11a/g cards that it would be worth it to invest in that rather than an 802.11b router?" Has anyone considered making a Linux distribution for use by cybercafes, to handle wireless access and anything else such an outfit might need?
"Since this is a medium (50,000-ish) size town, and pretty much everyone in the coffee shop is a regular, would a tip jar model work? I'm figuring suggest a donation - what should I set that at?
Finally, keep in mind that the owner is not a geek - I'd be doing this when not studying (I'm a college student), so this would be set up over the summer, and most of the maintenance would be done on the weekends and/or via SSH.
Any other thoughts would be appreciated."
http://www.austinwireless.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi
T hey've got several low-cost setups all around the Austin area.
Print the WEP key on the receipt, and change it daily.
You can get 802.11b routers for 20 bucks AR now (and why bother with g if it's a tip-jar method).
Further, it probably doesn't even require $500 for a PC capable enough to do the job...if you have any computer shows in your area, you could probably just pick up an old (but reasonably loaded) PIII box for ~$100-$150.
With those kinds of prices, the coffee shop should go for it!
Well....figure on it this way. Each router or access point does not give 11mb (more like 3-6mb in actuality) to each node, but they end up sharing it. I suggest you invest in a switch, a regular router and some access points.
Even if a lot of people have 802.11a/g cards, you'd probably be best served with 802.11b equipment. It's compatible with the most systems, and serving up broadband to multiple users, you'll probably still have a hard time saturating it to a noticible degree in a coffee shop setting.
Just my $0.02
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
Java Desktop System is taken, I believe. :)
You can do what you are looking to do very inexpensively (not counting time) if you get a Linux supported PCMCIA card and a Toshiba SG-20. The SG-20's are available for ~$200 (Cheaper on ebay I'm sure) and they have a built in 7 port hub, 1 external interface, and a PCMCIA slot which you can put the wireless card into and setup an ad-hoc network for wireless users.
I currently use the SG-20's for a managed firewall solution for small businesses which I run Gentoo on. (You can substitute your Distribution of choice of course)
Do you Gentoo!?
I have not read the book, but I have looked at the table of contents and the index. The book looks to be a designed to answer many of the questions that you have asked. Hopefully someone on Slashdot has read the book and can tell you if it will help you in your effort to set up a wireless network at your local coffee shop.
Get a WiFi card (I got a Netgear MA311 refurb from Fry's for 30$), an old PC, configure it running FreeBSD to serve as an access point for your wireless network. Here's a great HOWTO:
Configuring a FreeBSD Access Point for Your Wireless Network
CB
free ipod and free gmail!
See the Linux Journal article at http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6887
Forget about making a Linux distro for this, everything you want to do is available within OpenBSD 3.4 and it's pf software. Basic packet filtering, NAT, user quotas and general bandwidth managment. OpenBSD 3.4 also comes with BIND9 and ISC's DHCP daemon for serving up IP addresses. Best of all, you can do it for the cost of a $100 PC you pick up at the local computer show (say a pentium pro or an earlier pentium II).
kinda reminds me of people who plan to make a profit giving software away for free...
First, if you don't pay more money per month for "resellable bandwidth", then you are in a legal gray area. Your generic office class DSL service is not resellable, so I'd avoid actually charging. You might be able to get away with a tip jar, but I'd forget about charging for the service.
Giving it away free also simplifies administration, and can be seen as an easy and cheap promotion to attract customers.
Secondly, with 802.11g routers costing $79, cost isn't much of an issue. This is a business expense, go ahead and pony up the $30 extra bucks for a decent piece of equipment.
A lot of what your talking about has been deployed to over 20 buisness locations and a horde more home sites here in Portland Oregon by a group called the Personal Telco Project.
http://www.personaltelco.net
We use NoCat on linux based boxes and it covers most of what your looking to do. You can set up Auth or simply a Splash, you can do throttling, shaping and the like, you can set up local content areas for biz and community use.
Its amazing what older PCs and low cost APs can do. Most of the stuff is easy to install, the few rough spots, like NoCat, have been feild tested and methodologies have been crafted to make it easier to set and and maintain.
Come on over to the url posted above for more information or head to #ptp on irc.freenode.net and ask for more info.
Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap! Poor little clams! Snap! Snap! Snap!
Traffic shaping is available by default and pretty easy to set up, and it runs well on cheap old hardware. You could invest a lot of effort hardening a Linux install to match what OpenBSD has by default.
There's provision for requiring authentication on wireless connections. Even with a tip jar model you may want that.
Keep WEP turned off (yes, you just heard that from a security consultant!). WEP doesn't match your security model 'cause it assumes everyone using the same key trusts each other. Since it doesn't do what you need, it's not worth the cost in inconveniencing the customers.
Turn the power down on the access point. No need to provide service to people across the street or down the block.
I don't think the tip jar will pay for the setup, but I suspect customers may come and drink more coffee, so it'll be worthwhile even as a learning experience.
Go with 802.11b. Your internet connection isn't nearly fast enough to saturate 11Mb/s. Use an access point that goes to an ethernet card on the computer, which has another card that goes to the internet. If you want to run a wired or private network as well, hang a third card off the computer and make sure no one can go from the public network to the private one, only to the internet.
Then go wild with the linux. Be aware that the more programs you run, the more vulnerable you are to attacks. You'll be ssh'ing in every month to update the software if you use any new software that hasn't undergone the rigors of years of public internet testing.
Alternately, use an AP/Router combination. Make sure you don't skimp. Many have ability to block ports, limit usage, etc. You won't be able to prevent spammers as easily, but your ISP will tell you if that' becoming an issue. If so, put in a box later.
-Adam
Except when the hog is a neighbor who has discovered the free access and is running a Kazaa file sharing client or doing some other high-bandwidth use activity. Remember, this is wireless - the person using the bandwidth might not always be visible to you.
Sapere aude!
Not to mention you'll probably want all sorts of disclaimers for people to outright accept if they're willing to risk using your network. Someone could possibly find their account had been hacked and assume it was your "mom-and-pop operation" that mishandled the data floating through the air, or that the server you setup got hacked, allowing all data to be sniffed -- with WEP, the data through the air is encrypted, but unless the user is using SSL or some other encryption, the data from the server to the internet is not encrypted.
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
The way I see it, you should just forget about WEP keys, filtering, tip jars, and all of that crap. You are in the coffee shop business, not the cybercafe business.
Here's what I think you should do:
1) Get the cheapest DSL connection you can find in your area.
2) Buy as few low-end 802.11b AP's as it takes to provide coverage to your shop and store front (assuming you have tables out front or something).
3) Configure the AP's for public access, and use your shop's name for your SSID.
This will provide a decent level of Internet service for your customers with the minimum of maintenance and effort on your part. Most importantly, it will let you focus on your core business, which is coffee and sundries. Think of the Internet service purely as an amenity, like piped-in music or a TV in the corner, and treat it as a cost of doing business, not a profit center. Don't worry about how good the Internet service is, just concentrate on the coffee. Most people won't complain (loudly, anyway) about the quality of an amenity they are getting for free. Just set the appropriate expectations. The key phrase is... "best effort".
This will accomplish the real objective: bringing people into your store to buy your product, and keeping them there as long as possible (because hopefully, the longer they stay, the more product they buy), while at the same time minimizing your cost and overhead of providing the amenity.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6887
When deciding if you're going to bother with 802.11b or g, you need to ask yourself what you're going to use it for. It is unlikely that your inbound pipeline will be more than 12mbps, and it's also unlikely that the users will want to spend a lot of time swapping files. Intranet gaming also takes much less bandwidth than this for the ten or so machines that the typical router will support. With that in mind, 802.11b should be more than adequate.
A warning, though. Don't go into this assuming that it'll be maintenance free. I run one of these for the local neighbors, and they're regularly calling me up to find out what's wrong with the connection. Run it for a month or so without charging people. This will both hook your customers on the idea of having it available, and give you the time to figure out the best location of your router, how much regular maintenance your system will take, and if it's worth your effort.
Wake up - the future is arriving faster than you think.
My wife saw the ads (targeted toward your average laptop-toter, it seemed) for wireless access at Starbucks, so, deciding it might be a nice break to work from there instead of the house, she went only to change her mind when she discovered the price. My point is that if she was handed a receipt and told "Here's your change and your WEP key", she would have said, "Uh... what?"
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
This is no longer true. I went to a comedy show at a local coffee house and there were at least six "stylish" females there with laptops. [No males with computers.] They weren't there for the show. They were there to write papers and socialize while they did it.
This is not a political statement. This is not legal advice. It's a frick'n Slasdot post. However: I'm Running For
first off, long term maintenance will be a problem. once you move on to a better job, the owners will have to deal with the networking themselves. so build them a system that's hands-off (ie. doesn't need patches :), or that then can administer themselves.
:)
:(
:)
i'd stay away from deploying your own linux-pc-based solution for as long as you can. a hardware box that includes all functionality would clearly be best, even if slightly more expensive. eg. a wireless router with bandwidth management. something that, once set up, remains easy to use. unfortunately i don't know of any specific models that would do exactly what you want. you could always talk to the manager of some starbucks, or borders bookstore, and ask them what they use.
second, i like the idea of not going with the subscription model. my local coffeehouse just deployed wifi (using facefive), and when they did a test run for free, it caused quite a stir - a lot of people were coming in for the internet, and i think buying more. then they switched to the subscription model (only barely cheaper than starbucks), and it stopped.
and while anecdotal evidence proves nothing, i just mean to say that a tip-jar model, even if it doesn't bring explicit income to cover wifi costs, should cause increased traffic, especially from students. this should translate to higher sales, and most likely also longer table occupancy. you should do a test run for three months, and see whether it pays off.
and when you do that, please post the results!
My other car is a cons.
I go to one of these places listed (JPs Java House) - they have free unlimited 802.11b access for anyone. Very nice.
Overall, I think that your idea is great. I think you are making a bit more complex than it needs to be. If you want to have quotas that is fine, but why not just put up a 802.11g router (they are cheap) and allow open access. If you want to make sure that people buy stuff to get access - they do what another post says - WEP key on reciept, changed daily (sure, not hard to get around, but more of an honor system). And sure - put up a tip jar - clearly labeled with something like "FOR THE SUPPORT OF OPEN INTERNET ACCESS" or something like that. Heck, with this setup, you could be ready to go tomorrow (not next summer).
I say just go simple. If you make access easy and pretty much open - people will come in just for that. Especially in a college campus area - simple and pretty much unlimited will probably draw a solid crowd.
RonB
It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
The coffee house I've been frequenting (Mudhouse in Springfield, MO) has free WiFi for anyone that comes in. No WEP, no fees, no nothing. In fact, they just have a consumer SMC access point, and I'm guessing that whoever set it up was a non-techy. Anyone can access the admin functions by using the web interface, and while there is an admin password, if you know the name of the coffeeshop, you could change that too.
So how does this work? How come they haven't been hacked or had tons of b/w leeches? I think all this works because the coffee house was a pretty decent community to start with. It serves the local college kids, is part of the monthly art walk (they act as a gallery for a local artist), and you'll usually see/hear a group of teenage/college-age church groups, and lots of people who just want to sit and chat and have coffee. There's an honor system, and it seems to work. (Case in point would be my accessing the admin functions, but not changing anything, just taking a peek to see what kind of setup they were running.)
I'd estimate the coffeeshop seats maybe 60 people, and you'll see maybe 3 or 4 laptops on a Friday or Saturday night. The model probably works cause the kind of atmosphere the coffee shop has - they have board games you can borrow, and there's almost always a group playing Scrabble, and usually a group playing Skip-Bo or some other card game. They also have two large bookshelves filled with books (it seems to be a popular site for people to release books from bookcrossing.com).
I'd imagine in a town of 50k, just plugging in a WAP would work fine. All these people suggesting traffic shaping, changing WEP keys daily, etc etc might want to consider that a social solution might work just as well as a technical one in this case.
This is exactly the approach I took when setting up a similar hotspot. I published some of the technical details here. We use mostly Netgear wireless routers, and a FreeBSD box for the core firewall/gateway.
Just put it between you and the neigbor where it won't block your customers.
- "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
Except when the hog is a neighbor who has discovered the free access and is running a Kazaa file sharing client or doing some other high-bandwidth use activity. Remember, this is wireless - the person using the bandwidth might not always be visible to you.
It should be pretty easy to spot this kind of thing...keep an eye out for out-of-hours connections to the wireless access point and block their MAC address.
I don't think the tip jar will pay for the setup, but I suspect customers may come and drink more coffee, so it'll be worthwhile even as a learning experience.
Go with 802.11b. Your internet connection isn't nearly fast enough to saturate 11Mb/s. Use an access point that goes to an ethernet card on the computer, which has another card that goes to the internet. If you want to run a wired or private network as well, hang a third card off the computer and make sure no one can go from the public network to the private one, only to the internet.
Then go wild with the linux. Be aware that the more programs you run, the more vulnerable you are to attacks. You'll be ssh'ing in every month to update the software if you use any new software that hasn't undergone the rigors of years of public internet testing.
Alternately, use an AP/Router combination. Make sure you don't skimp. Many have ability to block ports, limit usage, etc. You won't be able to prevent spammers as easily, but your ISP will tell you if that' becoming an issue. If so, put in a box later.
That's a trick a local coffee shop uses here. Free network so you'll stay an hour or two, but you can't charge your laptop to stay longer than that!
It's misleading to quote this $10 number for Starbucks. Monthly all-you-can-eat is $30 ($20 for T-mobile cell phone subscribers). For this price, you're getting the use of every Starbucks and Borders hot-spot out there and you know there are a few around. If you're in any place of a reasonable size, you know you can find one pretty easily, and you know you can hop on with no hassles. If you go by the hour, then sure you're going to pay more, but unless you surf like once a month, you're not going to go that route. That'd be for people on travel and it's worth more that $10 to the business for the connectivity.
There are many things family-owned coffee-shops are good or better for, but let's not knock *$ gratuitously. And there are things definitely lacking in *$ HotSpot service, but clearly you're not interested in addressing connectivity issues, you're interested in a business model for hot-spot service. And to qualify that, the issues with HotSpot service are mainly due to it being platform-independent (read "works with Linux").
Whatever else you do, change the default password on the router.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
I used to hang out in a coffee shop called Bean Trader's in the Durham area, which has had free Wi-Fi at two locations for about a year and a half now. You should definitely check it out if you're in the area. Or, if you just want advice, call the owners, Dave and Christy, they are very friendly, and I'm sure they would be happy to tell you about their real-world expierience with this. (Tell them David and Amber say "hi.")
The owners are NOT techies, and installed Wi-Fi in their forst location basically as a favor for me and another customer (since then I moved, and he went to jail, but that's another sotry). Since then, however, thay have had no trouble maintaining it themselves, and have found it so successful, that they are planning to make it a permanent fixture at every store they open in the future.
Here's the formula they have found sucessful: A DSL connection for broadband internet (though a cable connection should work as well), and a combination wireless router/access point (they use Apple AirPorts, but there are cheaper models which would work fine too). That's it.
Yup, you heard me right - they don't even have a computer! The Wi-Fi is wide open, 24-7, for everyone to use for free. If the connection drops, they unplug the router and plug it back in, and if it that doesn't fix it, they call the DSL company and have them fix it. It cost them about $100 to start (for the router), and $50 a month for the access. They've told me that the increased business has paid for those expenses MANY times over, so even while their customers see it as a gift, the truth is it makes them lots of money. They have had almost no trouble at all with people hogging the line, or any of the other things which you might expect to go wrong.
And that business model actually makes sense if you think about it. Consider McDonalds playlands, for example. McDonalds is ALL about making money, yet the playlands are free. Why? Wouldn't it be more logical to charge a small fee to cover the cost of the playland? Logical, perhaps, but not profitable. Making the playland free brings more customers into McDonalds, and they make far more moneyu selling food to those customers than they ever would if they charged admission to the playland. It's the same deal at a coffee shop. Just think of Wi-Fi as a playland for adults, and the business model is identical.
Also, making it free has other perks for the business owner. When people pay for something, they expect a certain level of service. But it's not reasonable to expect coffee servers to do tech support of any kind. When the service is free, if someone has a technical problem, the server can say "sorry, its free, so we don't support it - try asking one of the other customers." I know it sounds odd, but it actually works well. When I used to hang out there, just a customer myself, I probably helped someone new configure their laptop wireless card at least two or three times a week. And it was a great way to break the ice and meet new people too.
Trust me, just throw a router/access point on a broadband connection and call it done. I've seen it first hand, and it works better than you think.
WEP isn't necessary for your customers - the main reason coffee-shops use it is to restrict access to paying customers, and you're not doing that - you're selling them friendliness and coffee and chair space and pastries that aren't too sticky to eat next to a computer. If you've got an issue with one of your neighbors sucking down bandwidth, that's different, of course, but setting WEP is an obstacle for users, especially if they've got their own WEP settings for their home or office.
Security and quotas are less necessary than you'd expect, as long as your DSL ISP is good. Start open, and maybe monitor usage and see what problems you get, rather than starting locked down tight, i.e. use your router's security features rather than buying a PC to start with, unless you also want to have the PC for customers who don't bring laptops. (And if your ISP is the uptight, policy-heavy types, running free or especially paid wireless in your store probably violates their policies, plus they're probably already restricting SMTP.) For consumer DSL ISPs, I'm quite happy with sonic.net, Speakeasy's also good and has nationwide coverage, and ever Earthlink's not too bad. Business DSL providers will charge a bit more, and tend to have flexible policies. Cable Modems are a much better match technically, but are run by terminally clueless paranoids who don't understand their business models, so you can't use them except maybe with a higher-priced business-class service.
You're unlikely to have much problem with spammers - geeks hate them, and have fun imagining scenarios like drive-by spammers, but in a small town, it's more of a know-your-customer thing. If you're in a college town, or get lots of high-school kids, you may need to worry more about crackers using your system. On the other hand, you need to leave things open for gamers, and the problem there is making sure the high-school kids keep buying enough drinks to make up for chair space. KaZaa's not really much of a problem, as long as your ISP doesn't ban it, because users are transient enough that they won't be doing much uploading, just leeching.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
"...keep an eye out for out-of-hours connections..."
Or, better yet, unplug* the WAP at night--100% hackproof!
* even easier to maintain: put it in an outlet that's connected to a wall-mounted lightswitch-style switch. At night, turn it off with the lights.
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