Slashdot Mirror
Razer Develops 1000 DPI Optical Gaming Mouse
gameaxx writes "Back in 2002, Slashdot ran a piece on what the best mouse for precision PC gaming was, and there was a debate over whether the optomechanical Razer Boomslang running at 2000 dpi was the uber gaming mouse, or the optical mice from Logitech or Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 running at 800 dpi were the best precision gaming mice to have. Now, Razer has just announced (PDF link) the upcoming February 2004 release of a ultra-precise 1000 dpi gaming mouse called the Razer Viper. At 1000 dpi, this breaks all the boundaries set by bigwigs like Logitech and Microsoft, whose mice max out at 800 dpi. Whether this settles the optical 800 dpi vs Boomslang optomechanical 2000 dpi debate once and for all with the release of a 1000 dpi gaming mouse remains to be seen until we actually get our hands on it."
I'm impressed at the price...considering its stats set it at the top of the niche, I honestly would have expected more than an "under $50" price tag.
If you have seen the Razor, you know what Im talking about. Imagine trying to use the xbox controller as a mouse. Ugh.
Those stupid SUN optical mice jaded me for a very long time. My ancient ball mouse died a year or so ago, so I decided to pick up a replacement. After a bit of shopping around, I decided on the Logitech mx700 cordless optical. The batteries give it a nice solid feel, it has a very ergonomic shape, and the control is excellent. I've never looked back. I've heard some complaints from people that installed the logitech drivers, but I've never had an issue with the standard drivers that WinXP automagically installs.
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
I've got an old, three-button Logitech serial mouse I found in a cupboard somewhere. It's definitely old technology, but it can still report movement even when I give it teeny-tiny nudges. How much accuracy is really required?
300dpi is a lot - try printing something at 300dpi on a laser printer and then move your fingernail over each individual pixel. Finding it difficult? 1000dpi is a pixel every 25.4 microns, and I'm pretty sure my muscles aren't that accurate.
Plus, there's quantisation effects to take into effect in games. The player yaw/pitch/roll angles in Half-Life, for instance, are quantised into comparatively large steps - thus making this hyper-accurate aiming thing a bit complicated.
There must be a good reason for it, though - but what is it?
With optical mice, the rate at which they scan is also quite important.
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
I use the Logitech MX700 cordless optical as well and I have to say it is a quality mouse for generally working on the computer.
However I'm not a gamer. I was of the impression that cordless mice, though immensely practical, were generally a bad idea in the gaming arena, because of the lower refresh rate - you'll get ~80Hz with a cordless mouse compared with ~200Hz for a corded one. Also, I've found that you can't really get pixel-perfect precision using the MX700 - this is evident just on the desktop.
qntm.org
maybe slightly offtopic, but...
somewhere in one of the links on the razor site they mention that the mouse has the 4, 5 buttons (although there isn't a single picture in which they are obviously evident). How accessible are they given that they apparently seem that hidden?
My current MS optical (i presume it's the most recent version) has what I consider a fairly good 4,5 placement. They protrude nicely (little bumps), on the left side below the 1 button, just slightly north of where the thumb rests so there's no accidental pushing. Previous MS optical mice had horrible 4,5 buttons (flush with the side so you weren't sure if you had depressed it and of course exactly where your thumb rests; one version even had the 5 button on the right side).
Guess this is more about ergonomics than dpi, but that's probably just as important than how fast you can move thing.
Regarding using such mice for gaming, I can see how this would be of benefit in something like Unreal Tournament for sniping etc.
However does the higher DPI mean that one needs more mouse mat "real estate" to use it effectively?
Could a similar effect be achieved by simply turning down the mouse sensitivity in the game for a "regular" mouse?
What the hell is this? It's even worded like a press release.
And for the record, there are many, many more important things on this planet to worry about than getting your mouse an extra 200 dpi of resolution. Most magazines, IIRC, are printed at 600 dpi. Anything finer is indiscernible to the human eye. What's the fucking point?
When it comes to gaming a higher DPI mouse simply will not make you a better player, gaming does.
This is the same bullshit the Audio industry uses half the time, there comes a point where our sense's are just NOT accute enough to tell the difference between one thing or the other.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Also, I'm too lazy to RTFA and the blurb didn't hinted at, but didn't say that the new Razer 1000dpi mouse will be full optical, so is that the case?
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The Razor Boomslang Mice (I have a 2000 DPI one) were a big deal for first person shooters with a very noticable difference for intermediate to advanced skilled players. Additionally, the shape of the mouse was very unique in that it allowed greater precision control. True, it wasn't for everyone, but speaking for myself, it was a big improvement once you got over the week it took to become accustomed to it. It was also manufactured with very high quality parts, was shipped in a very cool 'cookie tin,' and introduced a brand new mouse technology that I am surprised has not been copied.
This was the 'sensitivity on the fly' adjustment, where you could hold down the side button and use the mouse wheel to adjust sensitivity, and a green meter would super impose on the screen to show you how high you had set it. Very useful for going from apps to games, and for going from standard to sniper-style weapons within games.
It was endoresed by the top ranked FPS player of the time (Thresh). Unfortunatly it went bankrupt, then was again able to sell some mice, and is apparently re-constituted.
I used both this mouse and the MS Intellimouse Explorer Optical Wireless. I would say the wireless was better because it was wireless, but the Boomslang was great because it was more precise (in my hands).
Anyway, if you are not an intense FPS player, yes, this looks like advertisements for garbage. If you are an intense FPS player, this will be a must-have.
This thing also has really quiet buttons. Great for lans where you don't want the opponent to hear what you are doing. Again - only of use to those who are extremely competitive and will listen to mouse clicks across the room to gain an advantage.
I was sure versions 1&2 of Intellimouse was 800dpi and version 3 was 1500dpi. But a search in google says version 3 is 6000dpi.
btw, I use 5 buttons all the time, im not going back to a 3 button mouse (or 2 and a wheel/button). In games, I always map +4 and +5, very handy. In CS, I can switch to knife when I need that quick kill and back to rifle. In other games, works nice for sniper rifle, very quick, switch fire, and switch back.
And for windows and linux, forward/back in webpages.
Just a reminder: Even if you get the uber mouse, you'll still suck at playing the game ;)
However, I also need a new mousepad as my current one is chewed up beyond belief. So, what makes an excellent mouse pad for an equally excellent optical mouse? I know some have issues with reflecting the light and such.
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I have played with many mice, I am a huge counter-strike/star wars galaxies fan. Star Wars doesn't need the accuracy as much as counter-strike does. With some low quality mice, if you move too fast, the screen jumps around, if you get little hairs in the optical screen, basically your screwed. And for some reason, I have never had this problem with the Intellimouse. I think it is a great mouse, as matter of fact, I went to the mall a week ago and bought me a brand new one, now I have a spare. It is a cheap mouse too, definetly a must buy for the serious gamer.
Hate to break this to you, but the more "hardcore" gamers can definitely feel the difference. When you get to know a game so intimately as some of the FPS players do, ANY adjustment in the preciseness the mouse shows can be felt intuitively. The better players will only play better with the improved feel of the mouse. Average players may see an improvement, but it's doubtful.
there comes a point where its scientifically impossible to preceive a difference, its just that simple our senses are not that good, even people with handicaps whos body has learn to compensate with another sense still dont have senses powerful enough to preceive a change after a point. Your fooling youself if you think you can, cause there is plenty of scientifc evidence that proves you wrong
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
I have a Boomslang and I don't intend to switch. I hardly have to move my hand at all to use it! What is the point of optical mice?
but the more "hardcore" gamers can definitely feel the difference
Right, just like hardcore audiophiles can tell the difference between a $100/m cable and a $1000/m cable...
Actually higher dpi can help - you set the mouse sensitivity lower, then you have finer level of control.
;).
I don't know about 2000dpi but 300dpi is pretty coarse.
If you are going to quickly put a crosshair on a particular pixel on a 1024x768 (or higher) screen (there are people who can physically do that), 300dpi doesn't seem to be as good as you make it out to be. You want some extra precision so that a little shake/sensor noise won't bump you off to the wrong pixel when you are sniping someone far away.
e.g. if you have a 300dpi mouse, then 1000 mickeys would be 3.33 inches, and with a 1:1 mapping - 1 mickey to 1 pixel. Which doesn't leave you much room if there is a 1 mickey error in sampling.
With a 2000dpi mouse, 1000 mickeys would be half an inch but you can now reduce the sensitivity to say 5:1 - 5 mickeys per pixel or even lower, so that you have extra precision per pixel at a comfortable enough mouse-travel - e.g. 2.5 inches for 1000 pixels.
The game could also have more res than screen res. Or your screen res could be 1600x1200. If you have a 300dpi mouse to maintain precision you may have to move the mouse nearly half a foot in order to move from one screen edge to another - which seems uncomfortable to me. And then when you do the 170-180 degree turns in first person games (e.g. spin around to shoot at something you know is there but is currently out of sight), you really start running out of mousepad. If you don't maintain precision e.g. 1 mickey = 4 pixels then you could end up frustrated at not being able to hit someone far away- crosshair refuses to end on the relevant pixel.
Of course if you play games at 320x240 then the extra dpi is unlikely to help as much
That said there's one more thing that can affect mice more than dpi when it comes to game play - samples per second. If the optical sensors don't take enough sensor samples per second, optical mice could get lost with very quick movements - the mouse doesn't know which direction you have moved because the first and second positions are too different. Also if your fps is 100 and your mouse only gives you 40 output samples a sec, it really sucks. output samples != sensor samples. output samples = sent to computer, sensor samples = for the mouse to figure things out.
Having bought one, i can honestly say: Do yourself a favor and skip the dinova. the keyboard is just a laptop keyboard in a wireless case. If you LIKE laptop keyboards go for it, but realize, that it is a VERY short stroke, and has almost NO feel, and is a lot smaller then usual. It is a cool IDEA, but it really is bad in practise.
(stolen from DaBum) I am dyslexia of borg - your ass will be laminated.
I think not.
The very first Boomslang mouse I got was from their first run of mice. The mouse performed well, so I ordered 2 more, but they came from a second production run, and both had X or Y axis problems due to the rollers being out of round. Because of the complaints, they ended up getting their eBay account suspended (that sold their mice through their razerzone.com store). Fast forward through e-mails and many phone calls and I ended up returning them both, getting one of the very same mice back (I wrote down the serial numbers), and another mouse with an X axis problem. From that point on, I could never get in touch with them. They had problems with the second batch of mice and through them out into the marketplace to see how many would go unnoticed. When Razer went into dormancy, I got fucked in the drive-through with 2 expensive mice that weren't even comparable to your average Microsoft $4 mouse.
Their business ethic sucks major shit.
-- I'd say your post was about 3 monkeys, 18 minutes.
I had a Boomslang 2k about four years ago.
Awesome precision. Piece of shit manufacturing company. The thing broke within a few months because of cheap soft thin plastic. The 2 year warranty ended up being a jipp because nobody at Razer could get their act together to ship me the replacement, all I ever got was a UPS brokerage receipt that they never paid off. And then they went under. I still remember the pure joy of that lightning-fast mouse tracking. It was great for Quake, and even better for Photoshop/3DStudio. Just hold down the side button and spin the wheel down (turn down the pointer speed and you get hyper-precise oversampling for dead-on accurate pixel editing).
And now that they're back I'm feeling all giddy again to see their new product, but I remember how I was burnt the first time (for a $130 mouse, no less!). I'd rather see them get financially and logistically supported by a big guy like Logitech, or even one of the asian knockoff companies. They could do it cheaper, better, and with decent support (as in non-beta XP drivers!!).
I'm glad they're back in production, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed until I see an in-store demo or something.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
BFG, the video card markers, are the ones distributing the Boomslang these days. The ones from BFG also come with a big warranty.
Higher DPI Mice are great for graphic design as well.
Left 4 Dead Gaming Group - http://www.l4dgg.com
exactly my point.. you cant no matter what the company tells you.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
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Wouldn't know about that, but I can see refresh rates pretty well in monitors. 60hz all the way up to about 85hz or so flickers, and possibly even higher rates (never tried personally)-- especially white. I can glance at a monitor and tell you what your refresh rate is.
The flicker is so bad that I have to change the default color schemes on any machine I use because the default large concentrations of white give me headaches very quickly.