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Stardust Probe Enters Comet's Tail Tomorrow
Tortured Potato writes "NASA's Stardust probe is about to pass through the tail of Comet Wild 2 at 11:40am PST, January 2nd. If all goes well, the probe will return the material to earth for research in 2006-- the first extraterrestrial material captured from outside the moon's orbit."
Why does this sound like the beginning to a bad sci fi movie:
activestudios web design
Not trying to troll, but what exactly is the point of sending a probe into the vapor trail of a comet?
FP
devise a means to put a object in the path of a comet, (say halley's)land with a crumple shield and have it come back.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Stardust was the name of an operation to use weapons of mass destruction on Earth Fleets and the Earth itself in one of the later GUNDAM series.
Didn't the scientists see Armageddon?!? Rocks in space are far too unpredictable!
The Unfolding Project
Hope the probe doesn't plan any side trips to Mars given how hungry the Martians have been lately...
The stuff that they are catching the particles in, That stuff sounds way cool, I bet I can come up with.....well no real uses but at least I could say I own some of the lightest solid on earth.
....well whatever but its cool, I cant find any exacting details on what its made of however
Colud it be used to build a semi-rigid airship ? Or
I was reading the PDF on the mission, and it said that "aerogel" would be used to capture the dust. The description of it makes it sound pretty exotic. What is it, exactly, and where can I get some to play with?
The way the article describes the process, it sounds a lot like a Rube Goldberg process to get a fistfull of dirt from space. If a good portion of it is ice, would it not be water by the time it passes back through the atmosphere before it gets studied? Let us hope this galactic dirt is not water-soluble. Then again, I suppose that might tell the scientists something in its own right.
On an aside, as I read the article I got an image of the monkey in the Lion King grabbing the dust and hair out of the air as it happened to be floating by. I guess the difference here is that were going to the dust instead of the other way around...
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
Well, it will be the first sample captured at a location outside the Moon's orbit by residents of this planet. Definitely not the first captured by this planet, nor by its residents.
What new trails have you blazed?
And who are you replying to? It seems like you've just replied to an argument nobody has made.
The common argument--and I don't fully support it, and would certainly jump at the chance to explore space as much as you would--is a bit more valid than you imply. I think you could sum it up pretty easily as, ``why spend billions on pursuing goals that don't do anybody a lot of real good, when we could spend it on helping humanity.'' And all the arguments about spinoff technologies and economic development mean very little.
If the space program inadvertantly develops so many technologies that do help people, or boost the economy indirectly so much, why not just do that directly? Why not spend our money and time on devising sustainable power sources, or providing clean drinking water to the world's populations, or providing inexpensive AIDS treatments for third world countries?
I don't think Bush declared that we should go back to the moon (something that, in all honesty, excites me no end) because he cares about the science or the human spirit or any of that shit. It's all about the global dominence thing. Just like during the Cold War. If it were about the science, he wouldn't cut funding for non-military scientific research at every opportunity.
MOD PARENT DOWN!!!
/. and back to k5 where they belong.
Its a Slashdot Jihad post, we are the real freedom fighters working on behalf of slashdot. We must cast these prostelytizers out of
dust grains will fly by the spacecraft at about 13,000 mph, or six times faster than a speeding bullet.
-calyxa
Decay! Decay! Decay! -Helium
Stardust Probe Enters Comet's Tail Tomorrow
*waka-chicka-bocka-chicka-wowawow-wow*...
I'm so very sorry. D'oh.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
It's a silicon-based solid with a porous, sponge-like structure in which 99.8 percent of the volume is empty space. By comparison, aerogel is 1,000 times less dense than glass.
The above line, and more, are available here
And yeah, I'd like to play around with some of this stuff as well. The picture of someone holding a 'brick' of it looks like a bad Photoshop job.
with the recent failures of some other popular space project (=O), i hope this succeeds. from what i read the shields are only on the front, seems unlikely to me that a renegade particle might not hit the side, but im not expert.
This could be very interesting in that there are rumblings that the "tail" of a comet may not actually be melting ice, etc (the dirty snowball model that is the current accepted theory). James McCanney has an interesting theory called the Plasma Discharge Comet Model.
From the website http://www.usinternet.com/users/jmccanney/
"The work showed among other things that comets were not dirty snow balls sublimating (vaporizing) in the solar environment, but were a complex plasma discharge interaction involving an asteroidal comet nucleus with the "solar capacitor", the capacitor being the result of a differential flow in the solar wind of high energy particles leaving the sun. The balance of charge in the solar system and a myriad of of other previously unknown effects were predicted by the theory, including the existence of an electron sheet arriving from the sun at a cometary nucleus and resulting x-rays. Only recently have these been verified by observation. The new comet theory also explained that the tail matter was not moving away from the comet nucleus, but was being drawn in by electrical forces millions of times more powerful than gravity or solar wind forces alone. Essentially a comet was now seen as a huge "cosmic vacuum cleaner". Comets were being captured into the solar system by the existing planets and the comet "tail drag" helped to circularize their orbits. Many commonly stated beliefs regarding the nature of the solar system were being dispelled with more subtle explanations. "
The implications of this theory are intriguing as it may explain how Mars lost its atmosphere as well as such bizarre things as the LaBrea tar pits and all of the trapped creatures in it. (Under this theory a larger body can pull elements from a smaller body if it gets close enough such that things such as oil may not be decomposed dinosaurs, but instead gets "rained" down when a smaller planetary body moves close enough).
Interesting stuff.
The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them. -Albert Einstein
I was on a NASA committee involved in the predesign stages of the Stardust probe (we weren't designing it ourselves, rather we were consulting with one of the teams at the JPL who were) and this comet dust was one of our main points of focus. You'd think of dust as about the most innocuous stuff there is, but it was quite a challenge designing all the intricate mechanisms on the craft to be resistant to it - at the speed it travels, it can be like sandpaper on all the components.
It wasn't a bad move. It wasn't a virus. It didn't almost escape. It totally escaped. Not from a containment lab, but when a small-town doctor decided to crack open the probe. And it wasn't far-fetched.
Other than everything you said, you are correct.
why spend billions on pursuing goals that don't do anybody a lot of real good, when we could spend it on helping humanity
Because hope is more valuable than the billions, and helps humanity immensely.
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
This is the probe that has all those names engraved on a silicon chip. Their are a total of 4 chips, 2 of chip one and 2 of chip two. One of each set will remain with the probe and the other set will be returned to earth in the sample return module.
Google for it!
So basically you're saying that no matter what plans they have for the future, people should be killed for the glory of the space program?
Ok, so now you're volunteering to be the first on NASA's hit list.
True story.
Some theories hold that the crucial organic materials for life, the amino acids and other things that eventualy became organic molecules, came from comets bombarding the planet in its early days. I dont really know the specifics though, IANA molecular biologist.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
*yawn*
While I don't completely agree with the parent, I do disagree with you. We can spend money constantly trying to inject money into it, but in the end it won't help anything. You get a temporary gain, but at the end of the day you will always have the poor and the uneducated and the underprivileged. It's unfortunate, but it's true. Space programs are kinda a high risk gamble, for relatively little cost. It's like buying a lottery ticket, you know the odds are against you, but you don't miss the $1 anyway, and you got a chance. Space exploration has the chance of forever changing the human condition for the better. As long as we sit on the earth we will slowly burn through it's natural resources whatever we do. The space program is a tiny speck in the federal budget, and most of the cost overruns have been caused by petty politics, not the program itself. A quick glance at google showed me the NASA budget is around 15 billion. The Federal budget is around 2-3 trillion dollars. What great change will another 15 billion do? A small increase in another federal system, and we lose a symbol of our nation, a motivation for technological improvement ( Virtually every product you use, somewhere along the line, was impacted by technology developed for or because of the space program), and hope for a better tommorow. You can throw dirt into a fast moving river forever, and never have it fill up, or start building a bridge. The real probelm with NASA is they have to constantly fight to get their meager budget and are at the mercy of the whims of congress. The politicians need to do their job and give NASA a goal, like Kennedy did, and but out. A smart man knows the areas that arent his strengths, and most politicians couldn't tell a space shuttle from a episode of star trek.
Stardust Probe Enters Comet's Tail Tomorrow
I can just see Beavis and Butt-head crapping themselves over this headline...
The stardust name is also used by:
...the Stardust 2(a) will maneuver in from its parallel course to light Stardust's cigarette.
Except for those pesky chunks of comets, asteroids and God-knows-what-else that keep crashing into our planet. Now we've gone and done it! We're in a Space Race with gravity! I suppose the next bright idea will be to rid the world of evil or something....
"New causes for a new millenium: Stop plate tectonics! End supernovae now! Prevent animal predation!"
Goals for 2011: 1. Stop plate tectonics. 2. Prevent animal predation. 3. End supernovae now. 4. Rid the world of evil.
``The World Health Organization (WHO) and other UN bodies estimate the cost of providing treatment and prevention services in developing countries for tuberculosis, HIV/AIDS and malaria at $12 billion a year '' (The Black Vault).
I happen to agree with you, that we could cut other, far more expensive programs and do a lot more good. Cut corporate welfare, cut fat contracts to Halliburton (who has previously been convicted of embezzling millions in government funds), cut spending on weapons the military say they don't need simply because it gives money to some senator's constituents.
Hell, if we took the billions spent on ousting Saddam and spent them on providing humanitarian aid around the world (see how far it could go), I don't think there would be very many terrorists still out to get us, and I doubt they'd have nearly as much support.
So yeah. I think you're right about priorities. But saying we could cut other programs instead doesn't mean a thing. That money could be doing far more good--in terms of concrete improvements like health care and food as well as abstracts like literacy and education--than it does now.
And despite it all, I do like the space program.
No matter what, there are people that want to get to space. So if you don't do it yourself, others will and you'll be behind those others. They will get the economic benefit, not you. It's long-term thinking vs short-term thinking.
0x or or snor perron?!
Ummm, nah. Even I'm not going to touch that one.
KFG
Everytime I try to imagine it passing through the tail I keep hearing the theme to Deep Space 9!
Good luck to it! I hope it has better luck than some of the other probes that have encountered comets. It's quite a nasty environment!
What if a probe were sent to a comet to crash into it in such a way that was redirected towards (but not quite directly at) the Earth? The comet might then enter orbit around the Earth and be retrieved with or studied from the space shuttle?
Unknown host pong.
" Not until January 2006, will Stardust and its precise cargo return by parachuting a reentry capsule weighing approximately 125 pounds to the Earth's surface. The word precise should probably be replaces with "precious". NASA should know better.
December 31, 2003: Philosophers have long sought to "see a world in a grain of sand," as William Blake famously put it. Now scientists are attempting to see the solar system in a grain of dust--comet dust, that is.
If successful, NASA's Stardust probe will be the first ever to carry matter from a comet back to Earth for examination by scientists. It would also be the first time that any material has been deliberately returned to Earth from deep space.
And one wouldn't merely wax poetic to say that in those tiny grains of comet dust, one could find clues to the origin of our world and perhaps to the beginning of life itself.
Comets are like frozen time capsules from the time when our solar system formed. Drifting in the cold outer solar system for billions of years, these asteroid-sized "dirty snowballs" have undergone little change relative to the more dynamic planets. Looking at comets is a bit like studying the bowl of leftover batter to understand how a wedding cake came to be.
Indeed, evidence suggests that comets may have played a role in the emergence of life on our planet. The steady bombardment of the young Earth by icy comets over millions of years brought some of the water that makes our brown planet blue. And comets contain complex carbon compounds that might be the building blocks for life.
Launched in 1999, Stardust will rendezvous with comet Wild 2 (pronounced "Vilt" after its Swiss discoverer) on January 2, 2004. A rendezvous with a comet is a little like a rendezvous with a Gatling gun on a foggy night. As Stardust plunges through the hazy clouds of gas surrounding Wild 2's core, dust grains will fly by the spacecraft at about 13,000 mph, or six times faster than a speeding bullet. The "eyes" of Stardust, an onboard camera, will peek out from the body of the craft through a periscope to avoid damage. A Whipple Shield--a stack of five sheets of carbon filament and ceramic cloths each spaced 2 inches apart--protects the rest of the spacecraft.
Stardust will use a material called aerogel to capture some of the fast-moving grains. Aerogel is a foam-like solid so tenuous that it's hardly even there: 99 percent of its volume is just air. The ethereal lightness of aerogel minimizes damage to the grains as they're caught. Mission planners hope to catch more than one thousand grains larger than 15 microns in the aerogel.
Wild 2 orbited the sun beyond Jupiter until 1974, when it was nudged by Jupiter's gravity into a Sun-approaching orbit--within reach of probes from Earth. Since then the comet has passed by the Sun only five times, so its ice and dust ought to be little altered by solar heating. Pristine dust from Wild 2 can tell us what the solar system was like before it was baked by 4.5 billion years of sunshine and radiation.
After the encounter, Stardust will loop around the Sun on a two-year journey back to Earth. In January 2006, home again, the spacecraft will eject the Sample Return Capsule (SRC), which looks like a miniature Apollo capsule. The SRC will parachute to Earth and, if all goes as planned, land in Utah where scientists will be waiting...
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour
William Blake (from Auguries of Innocence, c.1800)
- Kaos games and encryption systems developer
That sucks. I submitted this same story with the headline "Spacecraft gone Wild", and never heard anything back.
"If you think you have things under control, you're not going fast enough." --Mario Andretti
Will the material be captured alive?
Hey, I posted this back in October. It was in response to a completely different attitude, the destruction of the Columbia. And I titled it, "Government is full of dipwads". Write something original yourself, don't plagiarize.
Back in 2000 I trained a group of engineers/science type folks at JPL in Pasadena. One of the members of that class was part of the smaple return program that has the goal of returning samples from Mars, several comets, and a some asteroids as well. Stardust is just one of many projects along these lines. Stardust had been launched before I taught the class but one of my co-workers had taught the Stardust group.
The crumple shield concept wouldn't work at the velocitys involved for most of the targets but odds are they considered it, just look at the airbags used for Pathfinder and Beagle2. It could still work for smaller asteroids though.
As to all the talk about pathogens being returned to Earth by these probes, ala "Andromeda Strain", I did ask. There is an department whose ONLY job is to work out how ANY cross contamination can be prevented, they don't want to put terestrial pathogens onto other worlds either.
I still worry about it a little but not as much as I did after that visit.
It may be a lot of effort for a small amount of mass but think of the implications if they found a few amino acids in there, or maybe take a wild leap and imagine finding life. Its not impossible and from the results coming out of verous research into where life can survive its not even that hard to believe. Just think of the effect the discovery of non-terrestrial life could have on scociety.
Then again that effect might be pretty ugly considering how people react to anything that contradicts their safe, warm, comfortable view of how the world is. The goverment would classify it in the interest of "national security" to prevent a civil war or something.
Stardust probe is about to pass through the tail of Comet Wild 2
Now, now. Comet Wild, what a nice name for a mare. And one needs some fantasy to call kis pecker "Stardust Probe".
Don't you all know comets are made of antimatter?
According to
matter-antimatter.com, this collision with the comet will kill us all!
She can suck the life out of me any day!
Soylent Green is peoplicious!
Now don't forget about Genesis, which will (hopefully) be returning solar wind samples in late 2004.
AC.
I guess there's a fine line between poking fun at someone's wording and trolling... I thought it was funny, anyway.
True story.
>Yes,there WAS a bad sci-fi movie about this. It was called the Andromeda Strain
Uhh... you mean one of the BEST sci-fi movies of all time. That's a little hard to swallow if you're from the Matrix generation...
PS - the book for Jurrasic Park was GREAT fiction. Please do not associate Hollywood's treatment of the story to the book. They are not the same. BTW his name is Michael Crichton.
Double-plus-good!
LOL
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
> people usually take 1000 meters per second as a bullet speed
From the article:
> dust grains will fly by the spacecraft at about 13,000 mph, or six times faster than a speeding bullet.
Or we could just cut farm subsidies, buy food from Africa and let them fix themselves with the money, which is more of a thought-out 'unified' fix for the problem. Africa's only a disaster because their only feasible export is strangled out of competition by US and Euro subsidies. If we didn't let the farmers and herders squeeze our officials by the balls Africa would be the breadbasket of the world!
There would also be other wide-reaching ramifications, getting produce from there to here quickly would lead to new transport technologies (bigger/faster/cheaper planes and boats) and African governments would have enough money to secure power from constant rebellions (which cause so much damage today because governments are too poor to maintain decent security). Safer Africa means tourism increases, and you have the beginnings of full-force modernization.
Here in the west, we tend to make things worse by 'fixing' both ends of a problem. We tend to not look at things from an objective and rational standpoint and instead let our (religious) morals and short-term benefits outweigh what would inarguably be the 'best' decisions.
As for all the places you suggest we get money from 'instead', THERE IS NO MONEY, we're running a huge defecit. The war in Iraq, Halliburton, all of that is money we don't have, it's being borrowed. We need to seek the 'unified' solutions I was talking about before because they INCREASE available money rather than divert or spend it.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
The plasma tails of comets are composed of unstable molecules that quickly break down in the presence of ultraviolet light from the sun. In order for this theory to even be even remotely correct, a mechanism has to be proposed for creating (and protecting from distruction) parent molecules in sufficient quantities in the inner solar system for a comet to "vacuum" up. The number density for these molecules would have to be quite high (relatively speaking), and the composition would be far out of sink with the composition we observe on the sun's surface, which would pretty much have to be the source. In other words, it just doesn't pan out.
Plasma tail dynamics is a very interesting field, but this theory doesn't even come close to the truth.
Shop Smart, Shop S-mart!
Please tell me more. I know about Jihad from their shitty website, what band of freedom fighters do you represent?
France never tried to sail around the world. The first navigator to find a sea route to India was portuguese (Vasco da Gama). The first to sail around the world was also portuguese (Fernao de Magalhaes, known in the USA as "Magellan" for some strange reason). The spanish followed soon after and, along with the portuguese, dominated most of the world for a few centuries. Eventually their colonies started to demand independence, and allied with England, France and Holland. And eventually got independent from those as well. Either way, the french were never good (or even reasonable) sailors. In fact, the average frenchman runs at the sight of water (which is why they need so much perfume).