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Sim Sin City - Thoughts On Grand Theft Auto
Torill writes "Gonzalo Frasca has some thoughts on Grand Theft Auto in the new issue of Game Studies. He particularly notes: 'When designers create a simulation that encourages experimentation, they are taking a huge authorial risk: trusting their players'. He also weighs in on the controversy over GTA's content, arguing, devil's advocate style, that the Bible, Mein Kampf and Das Kapital have caused millions of deaths, while it is still hard to prove that computer games really have caused deaths at all: 'Do the math. There is actually proof that books are extremely dangerous. They should be considered weapons of mass destruction. If you are really concerned about media effects, forget videogames: you should start burning libraries right now'." Coincidentally, the name of the article ties in with the alleged name of the GTA sequel, again claimed to be 'Grand Theft Auto IV: Sin City', even after (coincidental?) April Fool's jokes and other confusion.
There is actually proof that books are extremely dangerous. They should be considered weapons of mass destruction.
Heh. Farenheit 451 is coming true.
and my only comment is (Eric Cartman Voice) "What's the big fucking deal, bitch?" GTA is violent, offensive, and crude. They even make spelling/usage mistakes ("Alright, we're gonna hit the pay role van"). But it's no more violent than "Boyz in The Hood", or "Goodfellas", or most any other "R"-rated movie. People complain that the game is disturbing children. What's disturbing children is a complete lack of responsibility on the part of their parents. If you are the type of person who would buy a game called "Grand Theft Auto" for your children, the problem isn't with the game, it is with the total abscence of parenting skills you're displaying.
And as for the "Kill all the Haitians" controversy - Vice City has been on the market for a year, maybe more for the PS2. I know I got sick of those 80's themed commercials a long time ago. As far as I've noticed in the media, there is no wholesale slaughter of Haitians on America's streets. In fact, it was the hubbub that made me go out and buy the game! I bet executives at Rockstar and Take Two Interactive go home at night and roll naked in piles of cash screaming "Thank you for all the free advertising, Haitian Videogame Activists! It's going to be a Happy New Year after all!"
It's always the same. Whether it's Eminem, GTA, NWA, professional wrestling, or whatever, there will always be some lazy ass parent who would rather trample all over my right as an adult to read the books I want, listen to the music I want, watch the movies I want, and play the video games I want, rather than actually expend the effort to see what their children are reading, listening to, watching, and playing.
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Now, there are some games are long enough where replay value really doesn't make a difference (Chrono Chross?) because it is physically impossible to play them through more than twice in your lifetime, but for shorter games it's almost a must to avoid complaints of the game being far too short. From what I've heard, GTA3/Vice City offer enough to do to allow a person to spend almost a little too much time in its environment.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
I think this is a very interesting point. I know he talks about this as an improvement over the NPC's (Non Playable Characters), but if the same strength of non-verbal communication has to be translated into a networked version of the games with Playable/Playing Characters - would the lack of verbal communication succeed there ? What would other alternatives for communication be in this world?
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
There is actually proof that books are extremely dangerous. They should be considered weapons of mass destruction.
The FBI is one step ahead of you: If you possess an almanac, they think you might be a terrorist.
24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
The Bible doesn't cause millions of deaths, religious fanatics do.
Mein Kampf doesn't cause millions of deaths, Nazis do.
Das Kapital doesn't cause millions of deaths, armed dictators do.
It's always the same story. You have a dangerously insane person, weapons, and a violent or provocative book, movie, or video game. Which is it that the authorities always try to remove from society?
"Proudly Posting Without Reading The Article"
(I couldn't resist at all)
When society uses law and force as the ultimate methods of control it should come as no surprise that individuals also use such methods within their micro-societies.
Play is the freedom to act with reduced consequence. Should we proscribe playing 'cops and robbers' because it causes crime?
What about 'hunt the WMD'?
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
So the next GTA will be 4.
I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
Just waiting for the day that a big crate of GTA CDs falls off a truck and crushes some little hatian boy to death... The "games kill" people will go nuts.
Just like mentioning hookers, if you have to question where the next GTA will be based you haven't played the first two.
GTA2 had THREE cities. Liberty City, Vice City and San Andreas City.
I also can't see how a state run mental institution would cost much more than a state run prison*. Surely diagnosis, cure, and rehabilitation makes more sense than inprisonment after a terrible crime has been committed.
Well, it actually is a lot more expensive, mostly due to staff issues - the number of guards, orderlies, and doctor per patient is higher (and the pay per capita greater) than the number of CO's. But it's not better... Because it's expensive, and people don't want to pay for it (or politicians convince people they don't want to pay for it), the marginal patients get let out, where they end up causing trouble one way or another...
And, well, I think it's kind of obvious that somebody who's seriously lost their mind, and has access to weapons, will figure out something they can do however you look at it. (Although a movie/book/whatever may end up giving them ideas of more creative ways to do evil...)
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
I thought GTA 4 was Vice City . . . the next would be 5.
Nope, just like GTA: London 1969 (the expansion to GTA) was not GTA2.
And I don't think that GTA4 will be called 'Sin City', as in the first GTA there was three cities: Liberty City (New York, the world of GTA3); Vice City (Miami, the world of GTA:VC); and San Andreas City (LA, and the only city they haven't made 3D yet).
Exactly.
The first GTA had Liberty City (New York), San Andreas (Los Angeles) and Vice City (Miami).
GTA: London was of course set in London.
GTA2 had three areas of one city. Downtown, Residential and Industrial.
Since GTA3 was situated in Liberty City and GTA: Vice City was situated in Vice City (duh!), the next GTA is most likely going to be situated in San Andreas, possibly in a 70ies setting.
Eat the rich.
When designers create a simulation that encourages experimentation, they are taking a huge authorial risk: trusting their players
I've been thinking things like this for quite a while.
You know what? Real Life is inherently Evil, because you can do a practically limitless number of evil things in Real Life, while you can only do a limited number of pretend evil things in GTA. Let's ban Real Life!
GTA is inherently benign until the player actually does something (OK, there might be a little bit of nastniness in the intro). Any actually illegal, violent or Evil actions come from the player, the game isn't just sitting there being the embodiment of evil, even if you believe such a thing can exist.
Mostly I think we should just ban anyone who can't separate reality from fantasy from playing such games, which would include pretty well everyone who is complaining about it. Oh, wait, big assumption here - that any of them have even played it so they understand what they're talking about.
*sigh*
sig fault
He seriously weakens his point by asserting that any books have caused any deaths. The Bible and Mein Kampf have killed no one. People use books to kill, or encourage others to kill. The book itself causes nothing.
And in this sense, he is mostly attacking a straw man: the most serious detractors of violent video games rarely assert the games cause violence, only that they encourage violent tendencies, etc.
"But it's no more violent than "Boyz in The Hood", or "Goodfellas", or most any other "R"-rated movie."
In fact, I would suggest that a game like GTA3 Vice City is far less violent than the movies that you quoted... the graphics are more cartoonish and the plot more rediculous, which reduces the violent intensity of the game. The problem is not that GTA3 and Vice City are more violent than other games, that argument is foolish because there are many other games that consist solely of violence.
What makes the Grand Theft Auto 3 and Vice City games unique is the degree of freedom that they permit the gamer to do whatever they please. Even when compared to similar styled games like 'The Getaway' or 'True Crime: Streets of LA', the GTA franchise is alone in the degree to which the operater can cause mayhem of wide variety and of spectacular consequence.
I've listened to whiners complain about violent video games and called bullshit each time. But this time I'm not so certain that the game had no role in making kids more violent. I know that at least for myself I can attest to GTA3 influencing my thought patterns after playing a long stretch of the game. I think it's foolhardy to assume that these immersive games that allow such a wide degree of freedom not to have an effect on our behaviour.
Does that mean that Take Two is fully responsible for those two dumbass kids that shot the trucker? No, and I'm not suggesting that. What I'm saying is that there is *something* going on there, and it's no more accurate to say that GTA3 doesn't affect behaviour any more than to say that Take Two is the work of the devil. Someone more qualified than I (and I suspect you also) could probably quanitify the effect though, I would be quite interested in seeing the results of a study based on that.
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