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PC RPGs - Time To Man The Lifeboats?

Thanks to GameBanshee for their editorial, written by former Black Isle designer Damien Foletto, discussing how PC RPGs can survive the console role-playing game's popularity surge. He explains that console-originated RPG successes such as Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic are a boon: "There is no denying that SW:KOTOR's open-endedness, character creation, and story are heavily influenced by PC RPG development." This, he suggests, helps everyone out in the long run: "When these gamers are exposed to the deeper intricacies of RPG game play, and if they enjoy it, then they are more likely to pursue similar gaming experiences. This may eventually lead them to PC RPGs, or it might just make them more demanding for deeper console RPGs." Elsewhere, the rise of the console RPG is backed up by a new 'GameSpotting' editorial naming their favorite RPGs of 2003, all of which originated on consoles.

11 of 84 comments (clear)

  1. PC vs RPG consoles? by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Isn't it japanese vs western rpgs? Most of the western ones tend to go for "open" story with lots of optional sidequests. Japanese tend to be more linear with a far stronger story telling element. Put it another way, Baldur Gate has a large number of potential party members you may never even meet or kill before you they offer to join. Final Fantasy has them pre arranged. You choose your sex in Baldurs gate. Your sex and who you fall in love with are pre-arranged in final fantasy.

    Then again the very western game Planescape Torment had a small number of party members wich you interacted with strongly and strong story with relativly few subquests. It is widely thought by pc users to be the best rpg ever. Perhaps a happy hybrid could emerge.

    So I think for this at least pc and console can exist happily together as long as developers take care to tune the game to the different platforms. So USE the keyboard. USE the HD for easy saving. USE the bloody mouse, yes I am talking to you Final Fantasy. Kotor did it pretty well although the interface graphics were a bit large for a pc monitor. No need for inch tall text thank you very much.

    I have no idea what is needed to make a game work on a console as I am a pc snob.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:PC vs RPG consoles? by Washizu · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Then again the very western game Planescape Torment had a small number of party members wich you interacted with strongly and strong story with relativly few subquests. It is widely thought by pc users to be the best rpg ever. Perhaps a happy hybrid could emerge."

      In Torment there were a lot of choices you could make for your character, including his class (fighter, mage, theif), which you could change during the course of the game. You could also join one of the many factions which brought along its advantages and disadvantages.

      Although the core of your party is primarily the same, there are a few characters that if brought in (or not brought it) can greatly affect the outcome near the end of the game.

      It's not as open ended as Baldur's Gate, but I really think it's the hybrid you're looking for.

      I probably would rate it as the best PC RPG I've ever played, followed by Baldur's Gate (I and II) and Darklands.

      --
      OddManIn: A Game of guns and game theory.
  2. Re:KotOR's just a PC RPG that came out early on XB by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 5, Insightful

    NWN is pretty innovative though. There has been nothing like it before. (At least not on the level of NWN anyway.)

    This whole talk about a genre being at deaths door is nothing new. Every few months, some website or magazine says "(Insert genre here) is dead, consoles have killed it." Then every year we get "PC gaming is dead. Consoles killed it."

    It's all bollocks. The fact is, to most people I know, the console RPG's are NOT really RPG's at all. They're no more RPG's than say Tomb Raider or Crash Bandicoot. At best you get to rename yourself. All of sudden there's one title on the XBox that's barely above average (KOTOR, and yes, I've played it. It's tedious) and suddenly the PC RPG genre is dying...

    What a crock...

  3. Re:Elder Scrolls! by bugbread · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As Morrowind is an XBox Platinum Hit game, I'll take it this was an attempt at trolling?

  4. Lesser Consoles? by Cyhwuhx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    .::: Did the writer only play Shadow Madness or something just as dire on consoles?

    True, Baldur's Gate - Dark Alliance was just plain dumb in comparison with it's PC-counterparts (though still highly enjoyable and a good game in it's own right). But console players do not need to be exposed to the "deeper intricacies of RPG game play". As if the Final Fantasy's, Xenogears, Suikoden's, Dark Chronicle (Dark Cloud 2 US), and even Mario & Luigi - Superstar Saga didn't provide proper RPG gameplay.

    Both PCs and consoles have brilliant RPGs in their own right. Planescape: Torment and Final Fantasy VI both stick out for me. The different approaches both use are wonderful. Why would you ever want to get rid of one side of it? Unfortunately I'm not a Star Wars-fan, but what I've picked up about KOTOR seems to imply it's one of those RPGs which uses a blend of PC- and console-RPG styles.

    Isn't that to be celebrated instead of critisized?

  5. it's not East vs West by *weasel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    not entirely anyhow. Eastern-styled RPGs have been largely console-centric since the days of the Famicom. So this is more directly about the growth in popularity of western-styled RPGs on the consoles.

    I think the main cause of the popularity explosion is developers are finally finding the western-styled rpg market in the console arena. They're learning that you can sell console players Morrowind and Knights of the Old Republic.

    The only reason that these rpgs weren't on consoles in the past has been storage. Consoles prior to this generation didn't have enough storage to handle the content without having to switch a multitude of discs, something the average player does not want to do. Nor did they have appropriate storage for the massive save-game sizes western RPGs are known to generate.

    Now however, that roadblock is gone (at least for the xbox this generation, and probably all systems in the next). It is only natural that RPG developers, the guys who always cared about story over all else, are gravitating toward the platform that lets them concentrate even more on story, and not worry about minimum system requirements, or compatibility.

    RPGs on the PC will survive this turn in popularity like all other PC-gaming genres, sports, shooters, et al. They'll shrink in market share, but remain. I don't think PC gaming will ever die, just as mac gaming has never died. But it certainly will lose the edge it has held in the past.

    with PCs losing their last vestiges of hardware advantage over consoles (namely harddrives and network adapters), there is less and less justification for publishers to ignore the console market under some illusion of console-gamer predisposition to action.

    --
    // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
    1. Re:it's not East vs West by DarkFencer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Though hard drives and network adapters have long been PC advantages, those aren't what I think consoles need before I will take them over PC gaming:

      1) Wide spread High Definition TV ownership in the home, and support for this on consoles. Could you imagine playing a strategy game on a TV compared to on a monitor? The same goes for many RPGs and FPPs in my opinion

      2) Availability AND use of keyboards and mouse on Consoles. I don't mean just having them available as an option for a game. I mean games that are designed for them from the start and require their use.

      3) Developers that will take a chance on making a game that MAY not be a huge seller on a console, but may be for a niche market. This is rare with console developers (but is sadly becoming rarer wih PC developers as well).

      Get these three and maybe I won't miss my PC gaming. Don't get it, and I'll stick it out on the PC, and still avoid the consoles (at least until they drop to $100 per machine).

    2. Re:it's not East vs West by Lightwarrior · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > with PCs losing their last vestiges of hardware advantage over consoles (namely harddrives and network adapters), there is less and less justification for publishers to ignore the console market under some illusion of console-gamer predisposition to action.

      1) PCs are capable of displaying graphics several magnitudes better than a console. 1600x1200 in 32bit color with 16xAF and 8xAA vs. 480 interlaced (only displaying 240 lines). HDTV can display higher resolutions (notably 480p, 720p, and 1080i), but the only console that supports 720p is the Xbox, and its hardware isn't powerful enough to handle it for most games. Also, there is no HDTV standard, and since it doesn't look like HD will make the jump anytime soon, it will be a very long time before consoles can catch up to the PC in graphic quality.

      2) Player made content. Please note that Counter Strike, possibly the most popular game ever (second only to Starcraft), is a player made module. Unless Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo decide to include developer kits along with their consoles (and developers decide to support player made content), this gigantic draw will remain on the PC.

      The first two are *fact*. The third is my opinion.

      3) I cannot abide console controls for certain genres - namely, First-person Shooters and Real-time Strategy games. They do not provide for the same level of precision as a mouse o trackball. I am aware that such devices are or could become available for consoles, but then you have the issue of what to put them on. Put yourself behind a desk, and now you're playing on a low-end PC with bad graphics and no potential for player-made content.

      Those who predict that the days of the PC RPG are coming to an end seem to be unable to recognize Morrowind, NWN, MMOGs, and a host of other excellent titles that debuted last year. This argument comes and goes, but I've seen neither PCs nor consoles permanently decline in popularity.

      -lw

      --
      Mods: Disagreeing with me != my post Offtopic / Flamebait.
      World without hate or war, invaded. Tragic?
    3. Re:it's not East vs West by *weasel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      1. I agree completely: display resolution is the absolute last built-in advantage that PCs have. They will always have the de facto performance crown, certainly. Still, it's certain that the next generation will have the horsepower to drive a great picture at 1080i and 720p. This advantage is one that won't be held for very long, imo (if at all past the next hardware generation).

      2. player-made content is huge, I'll grant you that. but it can be done, particularly with the harddrives and network access. true, a publisher still has to decide to do it, but it is not an option that must be taken off the shelf if a developer decides to develop for the console.

      3. the controls for a RTS simply don't work on a controller. I'll grant you that. Goblin Commander for the xbox has a pretty interesting approach that works fairly well, but it would break down long before you got to managing the number of units that *craft games handle easily.

      I do however disagree with your FPS control opinion. I was a strict PC FPS fan for quite some time. But I bought an xbox (initially for mod-potential, but lo and behold: it's got worthwhile games too).

      And frankly, I hated the controls as I played Halo for about the first 4 hours. Of course it's not as 'precise' as a mouse or trackball, but i'm starting to wonder whether that matters? Varying display sizes and varying polling-rates on PC FPS create some of the biggest discrepancies with player potential in those games. Yes, you will hit your target more often with mouse+kb. But if you can do well enough with a controller, and the playing field is level, does it really matter?

      Clearly personal preference keeps many PC FPS fans from ever considering the console, and I'd never consider any opinion or preference 'wrong' -- but I don't think the control scheme for console FPS is deficient in any manner.

      the RPG market overall is certainly growing - but of considerable interest is the way the console market for western-styled RPGs ballooned this past year.

      As I said, I doubt any gaming market will die (i predict no 'end' for anything) and indeed due market growth overall I think they'll probably all continue to expand.

      But I do believe the rate of expansion, and the total market size will be shifted in favor of console RPGs rather than PC RPGs in the coming years.

      --
      // "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
    4. Re:it's not East vs West by Pluvius · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In order to solve this problem, you have to look at the game which started the console RPG subgenre: Dragon Warrior.

      Dragon Warrior became the most popular video game in the world after it came out. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a lot of console developers wanted to capitalize on this success, so they made games that were similar to Dragon Warrior in scope, like Final Fantasy.

      And so it has been for over 15 years. Therefore, the question is not why console RPGs are different from computer RPGs, but why Dragon Warrior is different from computer RPGs. The reason? Dragon Warrior was a fairly early game for the NES, so it had very little to work with, even less than the computer RPGs of the time (Might & Magic, for example) did. This kept Dragon Warrior from being nearly as deep gameplay-wise as the contemporary computer RPGs, so the developers compensated by focusing on a linear plot, which would be easy to contain in the space provided.

      So, in conclusion, you're both right. The console RPG started out different from the computer RPG because of technological issues, but now-a-days stays different because of tradition. Of course, that tradition seems to be weakening, and to good effect...

      Rob

  6. Dungeon Crawls... And Then Some by Umgawa71 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The inherent goodness about PC-based RPG's is that the developers continue to lay the ultimate fate of the game's longevity in the hands of its players, with reference to the mod community. After all, consoles aren't going to start handing out SDK's or development tools for modding anytime soon, and probably never will; thus all attempts at extensibility will have to be created by the developer, which -as we've seen with MechAssault- will likely carry with it an extra charge. However, as far as the PC community goes, the ability to mod a particular game is a selling point for both the player and would-be modder. Case in point: Neverwinter Nights had two strategy guides out at the time of its release. One, we'll call it the Player's Handbook, in that it was just basically a walkthrough for the as-packaged game. The other one could be referred to as the Dungeon Master's Guide, essentially spelling out how someone could develop a scenario, if not an entire module. While Morrowind certainly has an active mod community, I don't believe I've seen any other games ship with such an obvious (and well-publicized) push for community involvement as happened with Neverwinter Nights. Of course, then again, I also think they were hoping to create an enormous network of persistent linked servers, run by players, in hopes of creating some variety as a free alternative to the monthly-fee of Massively Mundane -er, Multiplayer- RPG's. Unfortunately, that lofty goal never quite panned out. I, for one, cranked through Knights of the Old Republic on the Xbox within three days of getting the game and I appear to be the only person on earth who was left wanting. In about thirty hours of game-time (yes, I know what that breaks down to), I finished the majority of the side-quests, spent another few hours to see the other ending, and it's a nice and compelling game all around, but after it was done, there was nothing left to do, and -given that Bioware created Neverwinter Nights- how I wanted some extra content.