Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Child's Play-Spawning Game Critic Praises, Apologizes

Posted by simoniker on from the groveling-retractions-plus-plus dept.

Thanks to an anonymous reader for pointing out a HeraldNet editorial praising online comic Penny Arcade for their 'Child's Play' charity effort, in which the author apologizes for having written the original anti-gaming article which helped the Penny Arcade authors to their decision that "the media seems intent on perpetuating the myth that gamers are ticking time bombs just waiting to go off." The controversy eventually spawned the Child's Play charity fundraiser, which ended up raising almost $150,000 worth of toy/game-related donations for the Seattle Children's Hospital, and the HeraldNet columnist praises the "speed and power with which this network of gamers mobilized their effort on behalf of children and Children's Hospital." He also apologizes for his previous views, commenting: "Certainly many gamers read my column as a statement that I believe that they are bad people. For that impression I am sorry. I did not and do not believe that."

20 of 68 comments (clear)

  1. Why write it then? by BladeMelbourne · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "I did not and do not believe that."

    Then one must ask why did you write that? Bad hair day? Boy-friend dump you? Broke a nail? ;-)

    1. Re:Why write it then? by welshwaterloo · · Score: 4, Funny

      heh.. he wants kids to go there: "If your children play video games, and even if they don't for that matter, I encourage you to know about Penny-arcade.com" First paragraph on their site: "Legally, what we need is something mad stringent - something to make those motherfuckers hoof it door to door if they want to talk to me about my dick so bad." Bill France, a father of three, is a child advocate *sigh*

    2. Re:Why write it then? by erasmus_ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, you can tell he's not too bright by the way he claims that the original Child's Play challenge was written on Penny Arcade by an "unidentified author", when every single post on that site has either Gabe or Tycho's name and face right next to it.

      --
      Please subscribe to see the more insightful version of th
    3. Re:Why write it then? by Ayaress · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I feel like posting to his new article, but I really can't be gracious about his apology. I'd like to be, and I'm pretty sure he learned a hard lesson when he's seen so many gamers spending hundreds of dollars for kids they've never met, in a year when Toys for Tots and Coats for Kids barely register.

      But then, his apology carries too little credibility. He could have retracted his previous statements that gamers were warped and the most dangerous animals, and I'd probably take his word for it. But he has to claim he never said what he said, which pisses me off much more than the fact that he said it to begin with.

      See, words have meanings. When you put the words, "Gamers," "are," "bad," and, "people," together in that order, people generally assume you mean, "Gamers are bad people," and not, "Ducks have orange cocks."

      The way I read this, not only has he said gamers are sick twisted child rapers, but now he seems to think we're either illeterate or have no memory span.

      Hate to tell him, I can read, and I have a hard time forgetting.

  2. Wow. AN article. Colour me whatever. by Kris_J · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, lets review. 3 articles about Penny Arcade's Child's Play, 251 about Violent Video Games. Hey, and that 3 will go up to 4 when this article on Slashdot gets spidered by news.google.

  3. Violent games by HalfFlat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Child's Play charity run organised by Penny Arcade is simply amazing.

    But the column cited at its inception doesn't really seem to be demonizing video game players, but a class of very violent video games themselves. The column certainly uses language that while not outright stating it, does imply that ultra-violent video games lead children into becoming sociopathic serial killers, and this was unfortunate rhetoric clearly used to increase the impact of the piece. But there are certainly (at least) two valid points being made there.

    Firstly, and most simply, age-restriction ratings on video games are having little actual effect. Either they are not being observed by retailers, or they are circumvented very easily in all the traditional ways. How they could be made more effective, or even if they should, is another question.

    Secondly, and more contentiously, there are indeed some few video games which are incredibly violent in a spectacularly brutal and callous way. Interaction does make for better learning than passive exposure, and it's intuitively the case that a steady diet of this material at young ages is probably having some malign effect on the more marginally sane in the population. This leads to the question: why do game companies and publishers produce such games?

    Video games can certainly be regarded as a form of creative art. And they're fun, too (or ought to be.) But they're also really expensive to produce these days, at least for any major title. I don't think any large publisher is going to pick up a title unless they feel it has a good chance of being a good seller. And so in turn, it must be that violence sells, even really nasty stuff.

    In film, the extreme end of the spectrum is certainly available, but it's not trivially easy to access for minors. Especially for films which are refused cinema release. The creators of such films are almost certainly not doing it for profit motive, because no exposure means few sales. As such, the movie classification systems of (say) major Western countries generally work as a comprimise. They rarely achieve outright censorship, but do for the most part keep the most violent films away from people deemed too young to view them. It also removes the profit motive from exploiting violence as mere titilation.

    So maybe stronger classification and enforcement is the answer after all, if it can be placed on par with film classification?

    1. Re:Violent games by AvantLegion · · Score: 4, Insightful
      >> And so in turn, it must be that violence sells, even really nasty stuff.

      By this token, games like Manhunt oughta be selling better. After all, Manhunt is from the same company as Grand Theft Auto, and is FAR more violent!

      But it's not. And with the exception of Grand Theft Auto and, to a lesser extent, Mortal Kombat, most of the games that received notoriety in cruased against video games have not been best-sellers. Joe Liberman's old pet game, Night Trap, sold about 5 copies. Thrill Kill was yanked off the market, and the underground distribution of leaked beta copies didn't spark must interest, because the game sucked goat balls.

      A lot of violent games, even exceedingly violent games, really pass unnoticed, because they suck. Most attempts to correlate game sales with violence blatently ignores this. Most attempts also come from non-gamers, removing the possibility of judging and classifying games by quality - yet they still feel qualified to try and come up with "the answer".

    2. Re:Violent games by dickiedoodles · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think some of the responsibility has to rest with the parents in this matter. A normal child of 10 can understand the difference between real life and video games and knows that similar violence in real life is unacceptable, if they don't it needs explaining by a responsible adult. If that doesn't seem to work then the kid has problems and needs to be kept away from violent games/movies/sharp objects.

      The problem is it's easier for parents to blame video games for all our problems and fight that instead of trying to figure out why people really go into a school and shoot half their class. maybe video games did inspire it somewhat but lets face it happy well-balanced people don't do that, people with serious issues do that and the cause of these issues isn't playing a few hours of doom.

      As a side note it was mentioned on penny-arcade a few days ago that a local news show actually reported the donations were made by a local catholic school, no real point in me mentioning that, just seemed to kind of suck.

      --
      In Soviet Russia Slashdot cliches use you
    3. Re:Violent games by HalfFlat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, that is a bit of a strawman argument. I never claimed that the appeal is proportional to the degree of violence. On the contrary I was making the claim that even very nasty stuff, which one might think would not sell at all, does sell. More accurate would be the statement: publishers believe it will sell, and it would be surprising if they were consistently wrong in matters like this.

      A lot of perfectly good games use violent action, it's just not extreme. Nearly every RTS is based about combat. First person shooters are naturally going to involve shooting. Even most computer RPGs have a large combat element. This doesn't make them evil or bad, I'm just noting that violence is quite common.

      The argument that publishers won't support titles they won't think will sell, still stands.

      Two other points: that there are crap very violent games doesn't seem to be particularly pertinent, unless one is arguing that more violence = more sales. The argument instead is that violence, even extreme violence, has appeal. But even if correlation were the argument, one would have to compare extremely violent crap games against generic crap games with similar marketing budgets, and we all know that there are tragically a very large number of crap games.

      Secondly, a game doesn't have to be a best seller to be successful. If Manhunt gives a decent return on investment, then it ought to be counted as a financial success.

    4. Re:Violent games by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The problem is it's easier for parents to blame video games for all our problems and fight that instead of trying to figure out why people really go into a school and shoot half their class. maybe video games did inspire it somewhat but lets face it happy well-balanced people don't do that, people with serious issues do that and the cause of these issues isn't playing a few hours of doom.

      I never understood why people could not figure this out in about 2 seconds. Imagine this.

      You are a kid. In school. You have a couple friends, way more enemies, and a mass of people who couldn't care less about your problems. Every day is spent trying to get through your classes so you can pass, but at the same time it is a warzone. You need to avoid the wrong people. You might get beat up, picked on, humiliated. You probably will. If not today, tomorrow or the day after will bring it. Every day you can count on at least mean looks, insults followed by giggles, etc. You are completely powerless. Any attempt to stop it only makes it get an order of magnitude worse, and it isn't just temporary. None of the other students try to stop it. Some will even watch, finding it entertaining. The teachers do nothing. Rarely they will give the trouble makers a detention, if they did something serious and happened to get caught. The detention is meaningless and only makes it look like the administration is doing something.

      5 days out of 7, this is life. Your entire existence. Anything beyond school is just a dream you have given up on. Even after going home from school, there is no escape. Memories of what happened that day flood through your mind. Anger, blood boiling. Helplessnes. Why do they get away with this? They aren't any more, I'm going to stop them!

      As we all know, life gets better after school. People still in school don't always know that. Still, there is no excuse for what goes on in schools today, and people who blame it on video games need to turn their brains on. They might get a kick out of using tragic school shootings to further their anti-violent-videogame(or ad&d/heavy metal/whatever) agenda, but it is so horribly wrong. You can't save lives by ignoring the problem. If someone is making life hard for another student, they need to be taken care of. They don't deserve to go to school with the rest of the students if they can't be nice. These are the real problem. These people are the action that cause the school shooting reaction. Making sure that kids that get picked on don't wear black t-shirts or play doom is completely braindead.

    5. Re:Violent games by Kwil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Two other points: that there are crap very violent games doesn't seem to be particularly pertinent, unless one is arguing that more violence = more sales. The argument instead is that violence, even extreme violence, has appeal. But even if correlation were the argument, one would have to compare extremely violent crap games against generic crap games with similar marketing budgets, and we all know that there are tragically a very large number of crap games.

      What a non-argument that is.
      Everything has an appeal to someone.

      The person you were replying to was making the point that violence does not sell games, even if publishers think it will. The amount of violence or non-violence in a game is completely orthoganal to the game's likelihood to sell.

      So why are violent games made? Not because they sell any better, but because they're easier to conceptualize and easier to market.

      Violence is a very easy thing to conceptualize. You against the other thing, and if you don't succeed, you die or are hurt. Everybody understands the idea of hurting or dying. It's a lot harder to conceptualize a game where if you don't perform better than someone else you receive a more nebulous penalty, and more difficult to make the choices the player makes in the game feel like they matter or have significant impact on the player's experience. (eg, explain what the game is in Unreal.. now try and explain what the game is in "The Sims")

      Violence is easy to market: People understand what's implied by a picture of a guy with a rifle. People have a more difficult time understanding what a game would be if it has a picture of say Gallileo sitting at his desk writing letters.

      So it's not a case of publishers choosing violence for the sake of being violent. It's a case of them choosing violence as a convenient, easily understood mechanism for game-play.

      --

      That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze

  4. Anyone find it funny... by bskin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The author gives a detailed description about the child's play project, telling about how touching the effort was, etc. And they mention penny-arcade.com many times. Yet they don't seem to have any clue about the content of the site, even saying that the readers of the site are 'apparantly gamers.' Perhaps they should've checked out the site a little more...I suspect that the content of certain strips could possibly offend people who would regularly read a column written by a 'child advocate.'

    --
    hot foreign sheep.
    1. Re:Anyone find it funny... by TwistedGreen · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or maybe this one:

      "I did punch a baby once... in anger. In my defence, the baby was being kind of a dick." :)

  5. We should take what we can get and go for more by orthancstone · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It sounds like guy has turned around some (he says he's reading books and is learning about the culture some).

    In the meantime, seeing a positive article, where an author actually admits he was initially wrong, is a BIG step. If we could get more people to admit they are wrong (getting them to learn may be another, more difficult step) in their assumptions, we'd be in the midst of amazing progress.

    I like Penny Arcade's response to the article, though. Especially this:
    The next time someone starts talking about how bad Vice City is, as though it were the only game in existence, as though game consoles were only capable of that single experience and nothing peripheral to it, I really do want the opportunity to ask them - please, name another game. Name one other game that you know about. No, it's not a trick question. Well, it is, if by "trick question" you mean "question designed to make you look like an idiot." I wonder if they even know that far, far from Vice City, past even the Vice suburbs, that the same machine can allow a father and son - separated by three hundred miles and thirty years - the chance to play a round of golf together, for no good reason other than its being Tuesday.

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php3?date=2004-01 -14
    Let's hope the progress continues...
    1. Re:We should take what we can get and go for more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
      a father and son - separated by three hundred miles and thirty years - the chance to play a round of golf together
      That's some ping time there...
  6. Let's introduce PA to kids! by AvantLegion · · Score: 4, Funny
    Quote the article: If your children play video games, and even if they don't for that matter, I encourage you to know about Penny-arcade.com.

    Great recommendation. Now next Christmas, every kid will want a Fruit Fucker 2000

    Wow, this broad just likes writing articles that she has to apologize for, eh?

  7. Unidentified? by arb · · Score: 3, Informative
    From the article:
    An unidentified writer wrote, "If you are like me, [...]

    Unidentified? Gabe's name is right there - smack bang on top of the bit of text this guy quotes. Can't he even acknowledge the people behind the Child's Play effort by using their names? Even the smallest amount of research would have revealed the "unidentified writer". After all the Penny-Arcade guys have done, only 3 news reports on their efforts, and one of them attributes the effort to an "unidentified writer." Sheesh! Adding insult to injury or what?

    1. Re:Unidentified? by arb · · Score: 2, Informative

      I hate to tell you, but his name's not really Gabe.

      No shit Sherlock? Next you'll be telling me that my real name isn't arb. Fer fuck's sake - do I have to point out that Gabe is just his nickname, and the name he chooses to use on the site, but if you look closely at the comics, you'll see the name Mike Krahuik.

      Oh and Tycho - you know, the other guy who writes that stuff? His name is prolly Jerry Holkins, but everyone still refers to him as Tycho.

  8. No, Gabe did. by Jammer@CMH · · Score: 2, Informative
    From Penny Arcade 2003-11-24 (hint: scroll down the page):
    Child's Play

    Mon, November 24 2003 - 11:50 PM
    by: Gabe

    If you are like me, every time you see an article like this one, where the author claims that video games are training our nations youth to kill you get angry. The media seems intent on perpetuating the myth that gamers are ticking time bombs just waiting to go off. I know for a fact that gamers are good people. I have had the opportunity on multiple occasions to meet hundreds of you at conventions all over the country. We are just regular people who happen to love video games.

    With that in mind we have put together a little something we like to call "Child's Play". Penny Arcade is working with the Seattle Children's Hospital and Amazon.com to make this Christmas really special for a lot of very sick kids. With the help of the Children's Hospital we have created an Amazon Wish List for the kids. It's full of video games, movies and toys. Some of these kids are in pretty bad shape and just having a Game Boy would really raise their spirits.

    Please take some time to browse the Wish List. Maybe all you can afford is a package of batteries or maybe you want to go in with your entire office and get the kids a GameCube. Every single contribution will help out the Children's Hospital and the 190,000 kids they treat each year.

    All the toys and games will be delivered to us and we will in turn deliver them to the Children's Hospital. As soon as the toys start arriving I'll set up a web site and post as many pictures as I can. We will be making a trip over to one of the hospitals next week and we'll bring you back stories from some of the kids along with more pictures.

    Penny Arcade has a readership of something like 150,000 gamers across the world. We are arguably the largest community of gamers on the internet. The important word there being community. This isn't IGN, this isn't Gamespy, we are not a faceless corporation, you are not just a number tracked by a database and then relayed to hungry advertisers. You guys have proven yourselves to be a powerful force when stirred into action. Here is your opportunity to use that power to do some real good.

    Let's give these kids the Christmas that they deserve and let's give the news papers a different kind of story to write about gamers.

    -Gabe out

  9. More than $150k by totalnubee · · Score: 2, Informative

    The controversy eventually spawned the Child's Play charity fundraiser, which ended up raising almost $150,000 worth of toy/game-related donations for the Seattle Children's Hospital

    Almost $150,000? Try over $200,00. Significantly over. I guess nobody here actually reads the Penny Arcade comments:

    'The first time the news dumbshits came out to talk about Child's Play, though they were clearly told who was responsible for it they excised one of the people behind it. I consider this a fairly minor issue, but they're still retarded. When they came to the Children's Hospital itself for the toy delivery, there was no reporter even down there with us. A cameraman got some footage and then (I believe) ran away. I thought I heard him say "Ghosts!", but that's neither here nor there. When this footage was aired, I learned something new: that the toys had been donated by a local catholic school, and were valued at nearly a thousand dollars. Understand this. A single bin of GBA SPs was worth four thousand dollars, and we had four such bins. That's above and beyond the seventy GameCubes the other twenty carts of toys, which at our best estimates come to around $175,000. Then there was a check for twenty-seven thousand. Here's where the depression sets in.'

    --
    "Even when I say nothing it's a beautiful use of negative space." - Indelible, "Fire In Which You Burn"