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Open Source in Government: Newport News, Va.

Sam Hiser writes "Open source in government is getting real. Tom Adelstein, in this penetrating interview with Andy Stein, the CIO of Newport News, Virginia, gets to the heart of why the opportunity to build collaborative software pulled the former chief IT architect of Capital One into the public sector. Police, fire and EMT early responders -- and the IT systems that support them - are under Sisyphean pressure to perform, while budgets are sagging. Something's gotta give, and it's going to be the aging software infrastructure in our towns and cities. Are Open Source platforms the only economically viable alternative? Maybe not, but collaboration will have to occur if we want to build the systems to save our lives."

140 comments

  1. Health care as well by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are Open Source platforms the only economically viable alternative? Maybe not, but collaboration will have to occur if we want to build the systems to save our lives."

    And while we are at it.....in addition to city management and taxation for those issues, if we want to reduce the cost of medicine, an open source alternative to the current software with open standards is the way to go for medical health care, health insurance and billing. How much of our current medical system is devoted to billing, reimbursement and trying to transfer and manage data? It's a lot.

    A standard open source health care database and form that is managed by the federal government that can be accessed by hospitals, insurance companies, states and individuals is the way through the nightmare that has become managed care. It could even tie into other open source government databases discussed in this article to improve the documentation of medical emergencies which may result in a further reduction of costs to governments and private citizens while also increasing the quality of care.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Health care as well by zoloto · · Score: 1

      if I had any mod points i'd mod you up. with medical billing between insuracnce companies, doctors, the policy holder etc., it's costing consumers and the companies almost 10x the amount more than if the process were quicker and simpler to manage.

      i'm not saying there isn't complexity to the issue, but the unneccicary complex nature of things in that industry is a crux.

    2. Re:Health care as well by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The irony is, most health insurance-issuing companies are non-profits because for-profits cannot possibly make a profit when there are non-profits providing the same service and health insurance is something good for society to have in existance.

      It's true that there are many medical processes and office visits that cost more to file the surrounding paperwork than to provide the actual service, and that has to be reflected in the pricing of the services.

      If even the existing medical-records systems could be ported to Linux, that'd eliminate $200 from the cost of each computer in the doctor's office, and that'd be a savings that'd add up over time... and just think what'd happen if the interchange between care providers and insurance companies happened over open source protocols...

    3. Re:Health care as well by BWJones · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The irony is, most health insurance-issuing companies are non-profits because for-profits cannot possibly make a profit when there are non-profits providing the same service and health insurance is something good for society to have in existance.

      Ask yourself just what non-profit means though. All it is in reality is a tax classification. For instance, the largest HMO in our area is classified as non-profit, but the principals of that organization have S-class Benz's as company cars and make high six figure salaries. Non-profit does not mean lower costs of healthcare.

      If even the existing medical-records systems could be ported to Linux, that'd eliminate $200 from the cost of each computer in the doctor's office, and that'd be a savings that'd add up over time... and just think what'd happen if the interchange between care providers and insurance companies happened over open source protocols...

      Open source does not necessarily mean Linux. But don't sweat it because Microsoft cannot seem to get their head around this either. I am really referring to an open source infrastructure that can be plugged into regardless of platform. The infrastructure can still be a profit making center for specific companies, but the idea is that it provides a mechanism for efficient distribution of information in a clean, secure manner that reduces the cost for government and healthcare for all participants.

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    4. Re:Health care as well by Iplaw-dc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The biggest complexity is the million jobs that exist because of the fragmented structure of medical care providers. Unfortunately, the corporate form has proven that all corporate formations are not for the benefit of large numbers. Just the opposite, a few will profit, many will work under them, and many are left uncovered- very sad! I agree that if there is a national interest to violate copyright,patent and tm, it would be in the interest of establishing better medical care. Would open source achieve this or might it just encourage more corporate formations controlling people's health????

      --
      Jax
    5. Re:Health care as well by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ask yourself just what non-profit means though. All it is in reality is a tax classification. For instance, the largest HMO in our area is classified as non-profit, but the principals of that organization have S-class Benz's as company cars and make high six figure salaries. Non-profit does not mean lower costs of healthcare.

      Yes, but that HMO still feels the natural competitive pressure from other HMOs to ensure they keep costs as low as possible. That doesn't forbid them from hiring high-salary execs, but it does keep those high salaries from being higher than they are...

    6. Re:Health care as well by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 4, Insightful
      How much of our current medical system is devoted to billing, reimbursement and trying to transfer and manage data? It's a lot.

      The major cost of health care is not the cost or Open Source status of the software used for billing.

      I cost goes a lot more about things like malpractice insurence, and the cost of drugs.

      --
      "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    7. Re:Health care as well by BWJones · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, but that HMO still feels the natural competitive pressure from other HMOs to ensure they keep costs as low as possible. That doesn't forbid them from hiring high-salary execs, but it does keep those high salaries from being higher than they are...

      Actually, if you examine the statistics, HMO's have decidedly not decreased the cost of medicine. In reality all they have done is created a new layer of middle management and moved the money that previously was going to physicians, hospitals, nurses and technicians to managers. Do this little experiment: Go down to your local HMO hospital and look in the parking lot. I will betcha that most of the nice hardware does not belong to the physicians. Rather, it belongs to the managment, particularly in HMO's that are vertically organized and provide the insurance as well as the health care delivery.

      If insurance is also providing the care, how do you think that works? Its a business, and businesses are in business to make money, not to be generous and provide the best possible health care. Therefore, they will reduce the money they spend and the effort they make to provide health care in order to maximize profits.

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    8. Re:Health care as well by wgnorm · · Score: 2, Insightful
      A standard open source health care database and form that is managed by the federal government...

      You actually think the federal government could manage this without screwing it up?

      They barely managed to get the DoNotCall list going, and I'm still getting tons of calls...
    9. Re:Health care as well by Ironica · · Score: 3, Funny

      For instance, the largest HMO in our area is classified as non-profit, but the principals of that organization have S-class Benz's as company cars and make high six figure salaries. Non-profit does not mean lower costs of healthcare.

      Six-figure salaries don't mean higher costs of health care either. Non-profit doesn't have to mean that executives do their work for charity. Fact is, more and more public agencies and non-profits are finding that by offering competitive salaries and benefits packages for executive positions, they can save money system-wide by getting better managers.

      Sure, paying someone more doesn't mean they'll do a better job. But if you're out to find the best person for the job, paying more usually makes it more likely you'll actually get them.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    10. Re:Health care as well by primus_sucks · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here's some cool open source dental software - Open Dental. Could be expanded into what you're talking about.

    11. Re:Health care as well by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but I'd imagine that you'd need a pretty robust and scalable RDBMS for healthcare. Is there an open source RDBMS that is up to the same kind of hammering that Oracle can take? It's been a while since I did any work with the likes of PostgresSQL and mySQL so I'll welcome any update on the situation there....

      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
    12. Re:Health care as well by Ironica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Go down to your local HMO hospital and look in the parking lot. I will betcha that most of the nice hardware does not belong to the physicians. Rather, it belongs to the managment, particularly in HMO's that are vertically organized and provide the insurance as well as the health care delivery.

      You mean like Kaiser Permanente?

      My stepfather is a retired Kaiser cardiologist. Yeah, he has a pretty lame car. But that's because he prefers to spend the few million he's saved up over the years on trips to Borneo and $10k gifts to causes he likes.

      He might have had a nominally higher income in private practice, but with the overhead (especially malpractice insurance) it's unlikely he would have taken home much more. And it seems he didn't really need to, either.

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    13. Re:Health care as well by qtp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A standard open source health care database and form that is managed by the federal government

      I'd much rather see a standard data format, or a standard interface for data transfer between providers than a centralized database.

      I am very wary of the current trend towards centralization of personal data, and I have not seen any proposals intended to regulate the sharing of the data (eg: a Right to Privacy Act that is applicable to private companies as well as governmental organisations), nor have I seen the existing privacy regulations enforced recently to the extent that they once were.

      A distributed database maintained by the individual providers that allows sharing of data at the patient's request would be a much more reasonable answer. There could be allowances for emergency situations (eg: patient is comotose and there is no next of kin) that would ensure caregivers access to necessary information, as long as the patient would be notified of what info was shared.

      I really don't like the idea of a centralized database that would allow "authorized" companies and individuals access to the entire collection, as I'm sure that others would not like recieving "Health Care Option notifications" (Half off on all pulminary bypass surgery! Now through March. Ask about our no-money-down financing for cosmetic procedures while you are there!) from every pharmaceutical company (Zoloft and Welbutrin! Upset about your job? Buy now and never be upset again!) that happens to have invested in a hospital or insurance company. It is sometimes better that all of that information is not in one place.

      --
      Read, L
    14. Re:Health care as well by duffbeer703 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Health costs have little to do with computers and everything to do with economics.

      The spiralling costs of healthcare in the US are caused by price ceilings (which have an inflationary effect), 1993-1995 "Reform" and deregulation of the pharmacutical industry and companies and patients jumping from insurer to insurer.

      Drug companies spend about $2 billion (2002 dollars) on direct to consumer advertising and about US$35 billion (2002 dollars) on R&D. Yet 20 years ago, drug companies spent $5 billion (2002 dollars) and released 150% more new drugs.

      Do some googling, you'll find that the US medical system is amoung the most corrupt institutions on the planet -- and nobody really cares.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    15. Re:Health care as well by miracle69 · · Score: 3, Funny

      How do you hide $100 from a Surgeon?

      Put it in a Book.

      How do you hide $100 from an Internist?

      Put it under a bandage.

      How do you hide $100 from a Cardiologist?

      You can't hide $100 from a Cardiologist...

      --
      Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
    16. Re:Health care as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Take a look at HIPAA transactions Transaction FAQ. Standard formats are already implemented. Trust me, I'm intimately familiar with these formats having coded several of these transactions personally for my company. While the idea is great, and the potential for reducing cost high, guess what? Providers (docs) have been very slow to move over to this standard. After all, its a huge expense, all they want is their claims paid. Now, open source practice management at the office, with HIPAA transaction support would be a lifesaver. The cost savings in elimating paperwork and proprietary standards from the Provider to HMO connection is enourmous. Currently most Providers are keying in data to a web form on WebMD and paying dearly for it (as well as the HMO's (payers)). Integrated with there office system... not at all.

    17. Re:Health care as well by advocate_one · · Score: 1
      !!!!! GPL'd .NET software??? how platform specific can you get...
      First dental software written for the Windows.NET framework! Windows.NET will be replacing Windows XP eventually. We use only cutting edge technology to bring you one of the most stable and advanced products available.

      All your data is available to you and under your complete control! Not just some of your data, but ALL of it is open (still very secure), available to other programs, and always under your control. Plan for the future and use software that is built on open standards, not software that is closed and proprietary.

      System Requirements: To run Open Dental, your main computer must have Windows XP or Windows 2000. Your workstations can be running on Windows 98 or later.

      sheesh... I applaud their use of the GPL and their aims... but not their choice of platform... to have made it fully portable they should have used Java in conjunction with MySQL

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    18. Re:Health care as well by primus_sucks · · Score: 1

      Yes, I agree. Maybe it will run on mono someday...

    19. Re:Health care as well by Ironica · · Score: 1

      Hehe, I'll have to share that one with my stepdad next time I see him (if he hasn't heard it already...)

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
  2. Hard to stay true to geek form by sudotcsh · · Score: 4, Funny
    Man, this is why I have such trouble being a geek. From the article:
    "Open source products, including Linux, are very attractive development platforms with a low barrier to entry."

    This entices me, but then I think I could just be spending time at the bar down the street, checking out the local girls with very attractive "development platforms" and low barriers to entry.

    1. Re:Hard to stay true to geek form by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      There are all sorts of security problems you haven't considered! You're going to get infected with a virus at that rate!

    2. Re:Hard to stay true to geek form by Tokerat · · Score: 1


      Most common line at the Microsoft bar: "Hey baby, you wanna Plug-N-Play my backdoor? We'll have a real MSBlast!"

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    3. Re:Hard to stay true to geek form by Spunk · · Score: 1

      Only if you can find an open port. When I attempt to log in it's just one firewall after another.

    4. Re:Hard to stay true to geek form by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of a former girlfriend, a computer science classmate. She actually got turned on when I explained insertion sorts... had a wild night!-)

  3. Shed some light by W32.Klez.A · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I personally would prefer that a government use an open system of well, anything, when it comes to running our vital services, as long as that information doesn't compromise security. The idea of a widespread open source initiative sounds like one of what may only be a small number of ways of getting our cities into the new millenium in these number-crunching times. That's just my take on it, and IANACIS (I am not a city infrastructure specialist).

  4. Re:Great! by TWX · · Score: 4, Informative

    "I cant wait to see how long I have to stand in line at the DMV next time."

    Well, from my experiences, things got worse when Arizona's MVD left OS/2 with a text interface to go to Windows with a GUI interface for the DMV tellers. Their solution has been to build more DMV offices and hire more workers rather than to get rid of those inefficient PCs and switch to something centralized like a terminal/server model with a well-designed interface.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  5. Are you in Hampton Roads? by telemonster · · Score: 4, Informative

    Are you in Hampton Roads (Southeastern Virginia)?

    Check out the Tidewater Unix Users Group (www.twuug.org) for linux/bsd/commercial users! Free open group that meets once a month.

    Also, there is a Hampton Roads geek mailing list on www.hrconnect.com.

    With any luck, Virginia Beach will also look into Linux as a viable alternative, especially after getting hit with an audit from Microsoft (as reported earlier on slashdot).

    --
    Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
    1. Re:Are you in Hampton Roads? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We all know why these governments are really announcing these plans. To get discounts on their next round of Microsoft purchases!

    2. Re:Are you in Hampton Roads? by ScottGant · · Score: 1

      I used to live around there. I lived in Gloucester, Va....very small town when I was growing up.

      Grew up on a farm there...like half a mile from the Mill Pond and the Roller Rink.

      I'm a Roob

      --

      "Music is everybody's possession. It's only publishers who think that people own it." - John Lennon.
    3. Re:Are you in Hampton Roads? by lunenburg · · Score: 1

      Are you in Hampton Roads (Southeastern Virginia)?

      I was for four years...

      Of course, the real action is in Southside Virginia. I wonder if there's a LUG there.... ;-)

    4. Re:Are you in Hampton Roads? by markdavis · · Score: 1

      Yo Ethan! TWUUG is "da bomb!"!!

      http://www.twuug.org

    5. Re:Are you in Hampton Roads? by DrDebug · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I live in Hampton Roads. Newport News is practically next door (ok, the city limit is about 300 yards from my house). I applaud their efforts to get out from under the thumb of the evil MicroSoft empire. Go Linux! Go GNU! Go away MicroSoft!! Heh-heh-heh!!!

  6. NYC turf wars by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here in NYC, the police, fire, EMT and every other emergency responder under the Sun has carved out their own protocols and equipment for communications, few of which interoperate. Even after the WTC collapse, which cost so many lives (including NYC's Finest and Bravest), the "brass" are defending their communications "silos" from interoperability at the cost of efficiency. Reliability is paramount, so the leaders don't trust "foreign" tech, especially if it's fairly new, and outside their traditional operations.

    In NYC, we stay on top by picking winners. Whose municipal communications have recently been revamped in the public interest, which NYC could use as a model? Where can I find a good example of transcending organizational barriers, especially in the area of "wireless" (digital and analog radio) networks? I am due to deliver such info to the Mayor and City Council during 2004Q1-2, so Slashdotters have an opportunity to really make a difference here.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:NYC turf wars by gbjbaanb · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm a developer - not a project manager/etc so I don't know enough about all this.... but I work for Intergraph in the UK. We have 2 shared control rooms - Isle of Man and Cleveland.

      IoM are perfectly happy to share a single system for the 3 emergency services, but they are a bit strange :)
      Cleveland Police and Ambulance are also happy to share... but Fire isn't. They've been dragged kicking and screaming into it and are still resisting.

      'foreign' tech can be good - it just needs to have an established track record. That said, all services I know of (except IoM) hate new systems
      simply because they're not what they're used to.

      Reliability is probably better in an off-the-shelf package because its been tested extensively by other organisations.

      Interoperability is the current 'fashionable' thing in the emergency service arena - it is excellent if you get a system that works with multiple agencies, and all reports I've seen that discuss shared control rooms cite 9/11 as a example of what can happen if you don't interoperate with the other services - ie. if NYC could communicate faster between agencies, some firemen's lives might have been saved.

      anyway, I can only help with reports from a uk breakdown organisation that has mobile data in the patrol vans, but that doesn't transcend org. barriers. Or North Wales Police that uses wireless PDAs.

    2. Re:NYC turf wars by mellonhead · · Score: 3, Informative

      Go to Austin, Texas and check out the Combined Transportation, Emergency & Communications Center. The following agencies reside in the building: City of Austin Police, Fire, EMS, and Transportation Division, Travis County Sheriff's Office, Capital Metro (they run the buses), both the City and County Offices of Emergency Management, and the Texas Department of Transportation. All agencies on the same radio system, the same Computer Aided Dispatch system, and also on the same operations floor. 105 dispatch/operator consoles, with everyone handling their agency, interacting with other agencies, and checking out the traffic as needed on the 48 monitor video wall.

    3. Re:NYC turf wars by MikeApp · · Score: 2, Informative

      Pennsylvania has a state-wide system.

      http://www.nwfusion.com/supp/government2002/wire le ssside.html

    4. Re:NYC turf wars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might also have a look at Shreveport Louisiana who spent some time integrating their Emergency Services Communications.

      One problem that presents itself is the initial cost of this equipment was astronomical, and each department therefore had to spend a great deal of time justifying that expense. Now in a world with shrinking budgets justifying a mutual system with a larger bill is going to be extremely difficult.

    5. Re:NYC turf wars by WOV · · Score: 1

      Also, the Maryland Fire and Rescue Institute at MFRI.org

      They train many of the responders for Washington, DC and Southern Maryland - DC being a spectacular interagency nightmare, with just about every Federal agency having their own police force, then Secret Service, DC Metro police / fire / EMS, TSA, Customs Service, Coast Guard, Park Police, and professional and volunteer forces from three states serving as second-line responders, I bet they've got something useful together - check their EMS officer classes for response to terrorism coordination. (MFRI does some other interesting work with UMd College Park engineers and researchers, as well - believe they're trying to get firefighters some augmented reality HUDs, for instance.)

      Of course, maybe they don't have any ideas. In which case we're all doomed.

  7. Re:Oh god, penetrating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tom Adelstein penetrating Andy Stein, and then mentions of things sagging. *sigh*

  8. Only on Slashdot... by MBCook · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Only on Slashdot will you find a word like Sisyphean.

    Instersting interview though. I think government is one of the most natural places for OSS though. Government is (or should be) open to the people, as is OSS. And people are always trying to find ways to do Government cheaper, since the money we give to our cities (say for the Water Department) should go to Water Department stuff (new pipes, etc) not making sure they have the lastest version of Soliare that comes with Windows. Free software is a great way to save costs while getting things done (and staying secure too, because I don't want that dang Mr. Smith down the street to know I spend $7.23 more per month on water than he does :).

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    1. Re:Only on Slashdot... by LostCluster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Government operations in the USA strive to be as transparent as possible, or at least that's what they're supposed to be doing. What better way to prove that the tax-bill issuing software the town uses doesn't have an easter egg that marks the bills that should go to friends of the software development paid automatically, than to be able to display the source code for anybody who cares to inspect?

    2. Re:Only on Slashdot... by LMCBoy · · Score: 1

      Only on Slashdot will you find a word like Sisyphean.

      Searched the web for Sisyphean: Results 1 - 10 of about 13,000.

      Hmmm... ;)

      --
      Liberal (adj.): Free from bigotry; open to progress; tolerant of others.
    3. Re:Only on Slashdot... by Daengbo · · Score: 1

      Only on Slashdot will you find a word like Sisyphean.
      Doubtful, but on Slashdot it will be used incorrectly and probably spelled wrong, too.

    4. Re:Only on Slashdot... by Quarters · · Score: 1

      It's also the only place you'll find a word like, "Instersting".

    5. Re:Only on Slashdot... by acaird · · Score: 2, Funny
      Only on Slashdot will you find a word like Sisyphean.

      ...used wrong. Well, if not wrong, not quite right. I don't think Sisyphus was under a lot of pressure, he just had to push that damn rock every day. It was hard work, and it was repetitive, and he never, ever got it to the top of the mountain, but there wasn't a deadline or anything. Think of it like patching Windows (ok, not just Windows, but this is slashdot) security holes - that's a sisyphusian task... it's painful and it never ends.

      Whatever...

      --
      Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely. E. Tufte
    6. Re:Only on Slashdot... by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 1
      Government is (or should be) open to the people
      You unpatriotic clod! Are you some sort of terrorist?
      --
      Drill baby drill - on Mars
  9. Re:Oh god, penetrating? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget pressure to perform and Something's gotta give.

  10. Re:Great! by Kenja · · Score: 1

    It should be pointed out that this is not realy the fault of Windows but of the software designer.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  11. That's funny by thalakan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm consulting for an industrial control firm that installed and maintains some of the industrial control stuff over there at Newport News, and it's all done with proprietary stuff like VMS, and most of the other systems on that net are Windows based. There's not any open source stuff at all on that subnet as far as I can tell (except maybe for whatever parts of the GNU toolchain end up in the images Cisco distributes for their routers).

    Although some industrial control and SCADA firms are moving towards porting their stuff to Linux, many customers are very opposed to anything without 20+ years of history behind it. They all seem to be very opposed to this idea of hiring non-vendor people to support their software or to depend on software with a planned lifespan of less than 10 years or so. I think they'd have a revolt on their hands if they forced the city infrastructure departments to use open source stuff, based on the comments I've heard from some of the people working on the project.

    --
    -- thalakan
    1. Re:That's funny by Ironica · · Score: 1

      Although some industrial control and SCADA firms are moving towards porting their stuff to Linux, many customers are very opposed to anything without 20+ years of history behind it.

      You mean like... Windows?

      --
      Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
    2. Re:That's funny by thalakan · · Score: 1

      Actually, what everyone refers to as "Windows" now was actually introduced in 1993. VMS, which is still used (and will continue to be used) for many industrial control applications was introduced in 1978, and VMS itself was based on a few prior operating systems such as the RSX-11* family.

      --
      -- thalakan
  12. Re:Sisyphean pressure? by hcg50a · · Score: 1

    Yes, it seems misused in this context. Perhaps a better choice in a similar vein would have been "Herculean", meaning "strong", or "immense".

    --
    HCG 50a = 2MASX J11170638+5455016
    11h17m06.4s +54d55m02s
  13. Publishing Requirements by Sean80 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    What would be tremendously interesting would be some sort of "bulletin board" where Governments could publish their requirements for software now and in the future. Then, civic-minded people could go and build it Open-Source.

    I wonder if this would work. In general, for those guys in charge of Open-Source projects out there, did you build your software based on personal interest, or some real-world requirement you'd heard about or experienced?

    Or perhaps something like this already exists?

    1. Re:Publishing Requirements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >where Governments could publish their requirements for software now and in the future.

      Haven't worked on goverment projects? :)
      If they could do that, it would be over half of the battle right there.

      If its small enough project then they would just hire a student or two or three and implement it that way.

    2. Re:Publishing Requirements by Nicanor · · Score: 1

      Not exactly on your topic but you may find this interesting: TechCorps Principles and Community Democracy cannot function without openness and transparency. Internet Democracy is no different. The Clark TechCorps represents a significant commitment to both these guiding principles. The TechCorps community is also complemented by the Clark Community Network. The CCN currently provides a free system for blogging and is based on Scoop, an open source community system. The Clark TechCorps will be closely integrated into the CCN, allowing TechCorps members to exchange ideas and blog about their experiences and development. at http://clark04.com/techcorps/ -Nicanor

  14. Spoiler by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    this penetrating interview with Andy Stein

    I checked, there is no penetration.

  15. Newport News == City by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Newport news is the name of the city... not the company. However.. on that same note... shouldn't newport news be the name of the newspaper, not the city? They sure do spend on tourist advertising... and they are quite famous for ship manufacturing. The local tourism industry wants to capitalize on this. They run advertisements showing commensing of ships, construction of ships, etc.. while saying in tiny letters at the bottom of the screen "closed to the public." Pathetic.

  16. What do you think it would take to get Microsoft.. by Osrin · · Score: 0

    Oracle / Sun / whoever to support this sort of open source applications work in Government? after all they have no vested interest in the business apps themselves, they just want to see them exist... traditionally they would have come from ISVs and SIs.

  17. MS sponsored University Research by bstadil · · Score: 2, Insightful
    FOOS in Government? Not if MS research can prevent it.

    Latest implementation of the Halloween Memo can be found here

    If you have been exposed to Economics 101 you will have a field day reading this pseudo Research unfortunately published by a real university.

    You will be glad to know that FOOS will fail as there is "No market at the core" and it does not provide an optimal allocation of resources.

    He kind of forgot the benefit to the user of lower cost but who is counting.

    Read more over at Groklaw by the way

    --
    Help fight continental drift.
    1. Re:MS sponsored University Research by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      unfortunately, you needed to do a more advanced economics course. There is far, far more to government take-up of OSS than free linux.

      Recently Newham Borough Council, one of 9 government supported councils trialling OSS, scrapped its plans to migrate due to overall cost.

      Read about it here

      There's far more to do that just give Linux and OpenOffice away for free. Lower cost does involve more than free licences for a desktop.

    2. Re:MS sponsored University Research by loucura! · · Score: 1

      Actually, it was the cost of upgrading their Exchange server that kept them from migrating to a Linux desktop. There isn't an Open Source Exchange 5.5 client, so they were forced to remain with Microsoft.

      --
      Black and grey are both shades of white.
  18. Re:Sisyphean pressure? by chatgris · · Score: 2, Informative

    it means "Endlessly laborious or futile". In short, it comes from the Greek Legend of Sisyphus. He was an extremely gifted mortal and the gods grew jealous, so they comdemned Sisyphus to ceaselessly rolling a rock to the top of a mountain, and letting it roll back down again, hence the endless futile labour.

    --
    Open Your Mind. Open Your Source.
  19. Obligatory SCO crack... by gooman · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I don't understand?
    How is it cheaper when it will cost them $699.00 per processor?

    --
    "Kittens give Morbo gas!"
  20. Re:What do you think it would take to get Microsof by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Governments like to buy "complete solutions", which is to say, they'll take whatever OS comes on the computer so long as it does everything they want. What it'll take is somebody willing to sell PCs pre-loaded with OS software that fully duplicates the functionality of a standard Windows PC, and able to produce them in mass quanities.

  21. Sisyphus Versus Hercules by handy_vandal · · Score: 4, Funny

    Police, fire and EMT early responders -- and the IT systems that support them - are under Sisyphean pressure to perform, while budgets are sagging.

    Beware the metaphor my son -- the jaws that bite, the claws that catch!

    "Sisyphean pressure" sounds impressive, until one considers that Sisyphus never once completed his task.

    On the other hand, "Herculean effort" makes clear that a lot of heavy lifting went on ... and that the deed got done, because that's the kind of guy Hercules was.

    Let's hope that the EMT's who respond to my heart attack are less Sisyphean and more Herculean ....

    -kgj

    --
    -kgj
  22. Re:open source is good for government by rudabager · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am a God fearing hardworking (computer engineer no less) American. I support opensource. It has been nothing but a benifit to me. I have learned more from the ideals of open source than from any class or text book I read in college. I dont think you really understand what open source is all about. You should do a litte more research before you make such comments. People in the OSDN are volunteers because they believe that if everyone on earth had some input into something then it would be as close to perfect as possible. Its the difference between some guy at a desk in oh say redmond under a deadline and turning out code quick enough to meet his deadline with no regard to the quality. Now say if he had about 300 teammates that process would go much better and the code would be more efficent. These people also belive that knowlage should be free. How is that such a bad thing?

    --
    If I wanted easy I wouldnt be an engineer or a patriot.
  23. Remember Munich? by DrSkwid · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Register is reporting :

    Last year, the city of Munich, Germany opted to go with Linux instead of Microsoft software on more than 14,000 desktop computers. This was seen as a significant setback for Microsoft and a clear sign of Linux' increasing viability. But now the project is in trouble, according to Computerwoche.

    This Spring, Munich needs to finish a migration plan as well as present a budget for the project. But according to Computerwoche there is not enough money and technical difficulties may result in stalling of the LiMux Project. In particular, smaller software vendors seem to be unable to migrate Munich to Linux, simply because they lack open source knowledge.

    -----------

    That's all it says.

    So not really Linux' fault all those German NT admins and Microsoft Certified Solution Providers can't get their head round it all.

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:Remember Munich? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      So not really Linux' fault all those German NT admins and Microsoft Certified Solution Providers can't get their head round it all.

      I doubt its admins - it'll be software vendors who cannot, will not, (or can't be bothered to) port their apps to Linux. I guess some will, but would require paying large amounts to do so, money Munich obviously doesn't have.

      In-house staff can always be re-trained, and I guess many will be very happy to acquire new, in-demand, skills. Its the external staff you have no control over.

    2. Re:Remember Munich? by DrSkwid · · Score: 1


      I've worked in a MCSP place. I guarantee you many NT admins wouldn't be able to install Linux, let alone run it.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  24. Holy crap! by dabneyd · · Score: 1

    Newport News, where I live, is using open source software. I think I just peed myself.

    1. Re:Holy crap! by Robobo1 · · Score: 1

      My hometown is Newport News... yeah, this is bugging me out!

  25. Munich in Trouble by bstadil · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Apparently the highly touted Linux mplementation in Munich is in trouble

    Maybe someone with first hand knowledge can comment, as this will most certaintly hit the popular press and it might be prudent to know the facts.

    --
    Help fight continental drift.
    1. Re:Munich in Trouble by Osrin · · Score: 1

      I would be surprised if this hit the popular press... look up the London Borough of Newham, follow them through their eval process and then see how much press their final decision got when they chose to stick with Microsoft.

    2. Re:Munich in Trouble by bstadil · · Score: 1
      I would be surprised if this hit the popular press...

      Come to think of it. I think you are right.

      I still would like to know what is happening behind the scene, though.

      --
      Help fight continental drift.
  26. Comments on the article... by dexterpexter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Open source in government is getting real.

    I assume that you mean the United States government. Open Source has been chosen in implemented by governments all over the world. I, for one, am eager to see the United States follow the international example for a change. I hate to nitpick, but it seems that people all-too-often mistake government to mean the U.S.

    I think that this would be an excellent test case for Open Source in the U.S. government. Considering the number of U.S.-based lawsuits over open source products, I think that this could finally bring the viability of using open source as a cost-saving measure to light so that local and state governments all over the United States will jump on the bandwagon and learn what we already know. Frankly, we need Open Source to be given more legitimacy in the United States as, outside of geek circles, it is all-too-often seen as a communist OS made for hobbyists... I know, I know, this makes no sense, but does most things?

    I can see the wheels turning now:
    "Wow. If a government deeply rooted in capitalism and who has good reason to demand security is willing to implement an Open Source product, it must be good."

    When asked if the SCO case concerned him, the interviewer answered: "It further complicates the decision-making process and promotes uncertainty" and I have to agree. That is why this would be such an important, powerful move. A government opting to use Open Source software is what will promote Open Source certainty. We need folks with power standing up and saying the same thing he did when he said: "Linux has shown itself as a stable and a solid performer in the server area." What a great opportunity for this to be heard!

    Software will break and the process of bringing it back to operation needs to be reliable. With open source software, the support structure is not always clear.

    I can't resist. Yes, M$ software breaks. That off my chest, I think that Linux has shown itself to have a very strong, if slightly disjointed support structure. And, where there is a need, a solution will be forged. Perhaps they can take the money they were throwing into the software and support structure, and use it to financially support an organized Open Source Support structure. Less money, better software, better support.


    The final point they made was a great one:
    "Citizens can call their City Council representatives and voice their opinion. It is their tax money at stake. The promise is more and better services for less."

    What a great idea. Not just for the places concerned in this article, but in our government as well. Perhaps if enough people called their representatives (who may or may not be tech savvy and who may or may not even know what Open Source is), we might possibly see this realized.

    LOL. Creating The Slashdot lobby? Neat.

    --

    *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
    "We are Linux. Resistance is measured in Ohms."
  27. What's keeping Linux out? by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Open source products, including Linux, are very attractive development platforms with a low barrier to entry."

    Oh how I know this is going to get me flamed! Mention VB, and get ready for Slashdot Hell. But anyway...

    One problem that Linux has is a smooth development platform with a great IDE, and widgets (widgets make the "enterprise" IT world go round!) Borland C Builder is very nice, but please keep in mind that the sucsess of VisualBasic is not only because an idiot can make an exicutable. It is also because it is in fact possible to build good apps in a very intuitive way.

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    1. Re:What's keeping Linux out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Are you saying that there's some fundamental reason why Visual Basic could not (a) be implemented in open source, or (b) could not be ported to Linux, Unix, or any other platform?

      Or are you just saying that you like VB as a language? Because that's fine as far as it goes.

      However, if Microsoft won't port it to my platform of choice, and nobody else is interested in implementing a clone of it, then I don't want to invest any support effort into it.

      I'd far rather go with a language that will let me write applications sustainably and portably. I'm not interested in putting my head into Microsoft's noose.

  28. Re:What do you think it would take to get Microsof by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They also like to go with the biggest back-handers so don't write Microsoft off too quickly.

  29. Linux in wide use in Naval Base here by MarcQuadra · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have a friend who works at the Underwater Naval Warfare Center here in Newport, RI. He develops code that runs automated warfare and fleet movement. He says that about HALF of their 3000 machines are running RedHat Linux.

    I was amazed to hear this, because there seems to be almost no Linux penetration in RI, only 7 users are registered here on LinuxCounter. I also have only seen one Linux box in RI in actual use (outside University), and it was just being used at a router at a non-profit.

    Every time I asked a boss or a client about using Linux for menial purposes (file/print servers, routers/firewalls, etc.) They practically laugh me out of the room. I finally found a job that's OSS friendly, but it's in Boston where people have their heads on straight.

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
    1. Re:Linux in wide use in Naval Base here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somehow it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of those machines were originally delivered to the Navy by Intergraph as Windows systems under the NAVSEA contract.

      The reason the folks working with these don't show up at the UG meetings may that if they talked with outsiders about what they're doing, they'd have to shoot them. In fact, now that you and I have discussed ths subject, we're probably supposed to shoot each other.

  30. Re:What do you think it would take to get Microsof by Osrin · · Score: 1

    But this isn't about the OS... according to Gartner the OS is only about 8% of the overall procurement cost of a Government app, the majority of the cost is in the application. With the support of the major vendors there is potentially a lot of value for Government in being able to choose their infrastructure (maybe getting the most out of some of their existing investments) and then sharing the applications and business process between themselves. The mentality behind OSS brings a lot to this scenario.

  31. That's funny.... by twoslice · · Score: 1
    Something's gotta give, and it's going to be the aging software infrastructure in our towns and cities.

    I thought it was Jack Nicholson...

    --

    From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
  32. Getting Real?? by squidfood · · Score: 1
    Open source in government is getting real. Tom Adelstein, in this penetrating interview with Andy Stein, the CIO of Newport News, Virginia...

    So when the entire country of Peru goes for it, it's not real, but when some little town in Virginny does, well then!

    You insensitive Americlods!

    1. Re:Getting Real?? by placeclicker · · Score: 1

      True, but Peru is a poorer country, so Open Source is a lot more likely to be used there.

      While America's government is never eager to cut back on funding...

      --

      Browse at -1, because trolls are often the most creative part of /.
  33. Re:Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's not the baker's fault you can't bake a cake out of a turd and have it taste good.

  34. Re: DMV needs this desperately by shubert1966 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a horror story about the BMV (Bureau of Motor Vehicles) in Toledo, OH. While this was in 1999 - it was a major problem.

    I walked into the office stating that I needed to acquire a new drivers license. The clerk asked me to sign in with my name and SSN, handed me a stub of a pencil, and pointed to the list sitting OUTSIDE of the sliding glass window. I nearly sh*t my pants. I had in my hand 40 or 50 names, along with their SSNs, which I could easily have mined for malicious purposes.

    I looked around the office and saw about 20 people who I wouldn't trust with my enemy's life, let alone 2 parts of my Identity.

    It kinda reminds me of the time the US Post Office thought they were going to launch a pay-per-email scheme, when I had already had a free Yahoo account for at least a year.

    God help us all.

    May the Universe continue to bless itself - through You!

    --
    Stuff that matters.
  35. Re:Sisyphean pressure? by acaird · · Score: 1
    He was an extremely gifted mortal...

    Or... he was a brigand and a murderer... I guess it all depends on what you consider gifts...

    whatever...

    --
    Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely. E. Tufte
  36. One word NCMI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The navy has decided to use MS exclusively with the advent of the NMCI contract.

    The system your friend works with is now classified as a "legacy" system any new developement will have to coincide with NCMI and if it touches a network it must be MS - sorry.

  37. Once yuo pop... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    teh fun doesn't stop!!!

  38. Re:Oh god, penetrating? by dalslad · · Score: 1

    I think they mean: the guy asked a lot of questions and put the interviewee on the spot. One question they forgot to ask: Do you use Linux?

  39. Re:open source is good for government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now say if he had about 300 teammates

    you've never trued working on a project with 300 other developers, each doing his own thing, with his own set of custom libraries and his own concept of what the end product is trying to achieve.

  40. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Finally a voice of reason rises above the pathetic chant of "Open source will fix everything, even if it's totally unrelated to computing or technology"... It infrastructure has little to do with the cost of healthcare, as the parent noted. It's all about perscription drug and malpractice insurance extortion. That and the fact that medical equipment and training is extremely expensive. Whats really shocking is that my auto mechanic charges the same hourly rate as my family practice doctor, think about that for a minute.

  41. "More for less" by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Citizens can call their City Council representatives and voice their opinion. It is their tax money at stake. The promise is more and better services for less.
    "More and better services for less" is every American voter's wet dream. Ask any decent sized group of voters if they want to pay more tax and they'll look at you like you're not wise. Ask them if they want better public services and they'll say of course they do, and ask you why you're asking such a stupid question.

    Throw this idea of collaborative open source development in local government in front of the voters and they'll love it. This is a great opportunity for the open source movement to get some real popular sentiment behind it, and any politician that jumps on it will find it an even safer way to get elected than rigging, sorry, 'redistricting' his own electoral boundaries.

    The cash-strapped cities will benefit. The citizens will benefit. The open-source movement will benefit. Everyone's a winner. Apart from Micro$oft.

    It's such an elegant idea. Think of the amount of duplication that will be eliminated!

    --
    Drill baby drill - on Mars
    1. Re:"More for less" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man, this is great! We could eliminate thousands of developer positions resulting in massive savings! Everyone wins! Oh, wait a second...

  42. UK OK by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    How about some links to the "UK breakdown organization" and North Wales Police, and their mobile infosystems?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:UK OK by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      show your email publicly, and I'll email you on monday. Or email me, and I'll get you some links (hmmm. will take me time), or a marketing/sales type person who'll have all the nice documentation to hand. Let me know more about what you're after.
      Cheers.

      some news links from google:
      about the RAC

      Police, Fire:
      news
      news
      news in pdf format

      Police Federation news

      This is interesting for you.. the Fire Brigade Union's response to the government's desire to integrate control rooms (you don't need me to tell you any excuse will do to stop this)

      http://www.fbu.org.uk/campaigns/control/controls tu ds.htm
      http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odp m_fire/d ocuments/page/odpm_fire_026271-11.hcsp

    2. Re:UK OK by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Thanks for your generous offer (and replies). But we're in an spam-paranoia stalemate, with neither of us publishing our addresses on Slashdot. Let's take this discussion to my Journal.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  43. Already emailed my City Council... by Ironica · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...How about you?

    I read the article, went to my city's home page (www.weho.org) and submitted a comment to the city council. Short and to the point: I have long wanted governments to increase use of OS because it will lower costs and improve transparency of government operations. Here's a collaborative project they could get involved in (article link). Please consider. And since I actually live in a city that's small and progressive enough to think about it, maybe something will happen.

    But seriously, that's what the article asks us to do. So if you like the idea, don't just say so here... tell your City Council. Tell them even if they're a bunch of decrepit morons firmly entrenched in a monolithic and incomprehensible government bureaucracy. Tell them even if it's a couple guys who meet on weekends to go over the problems of a tiny population. But *especially* tell them if, like me, you live in an urban municipality with a progressive, community-supported government and a decent median income.

    --
    Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
  44. State and Local Gvt rarely responds well to .... by pauly_thumbs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...Open Source.

    SLG admins + managers are in it for the pension. Risk usually does not bode well for those who are lookin for security and retirement after 25 yrs of service.

    For Newport News this looks like he was able to make a mark for himself and got lucky. Most admins and managers that I talk to do not have this luxury.

    To advance and therefor get a bigger pention they need to be able to pass on the torch.. Open source is "too complex" to pass the torch on to risk averse admins and managers.

    Finally; 'free' does not look good to those who do not spend their own money (they spend our money). You need to spend budget to get budget.

    Personally I think that ease of use and simplicity need to be priority #1 to get Open Source into Government.

  45. What "sagging budgets"? by John+Jorsett · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Despite all the wailing, I'm betting you'd be hard pressed to find many governmental entities that are actually going to get less money this year. When a bureaucrat says "cut," that generally means less of an increase than expected, not less actual dollars. During the '90s, goverments got used to fat increases each year and built those expectations into each successive budget. Then when the good times ended, suddenly instead of 5, 6, 7, or even 8 percent increase, they got 1 or 2, and it looked like the end of the world.

  46. god fearing? unlikely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    You sound like a liberal to me. That immediately disqualifies your opinion to the "ignore on account of stupidity" bin. But anyway I'll try one more time to get the concept of true liberty into your head...


    These people also belive that knowlage should be free. How is that such a bad thing?


    Simple. What you call knowledge is, in fact, property. Yes yes, "all information wants to be free" and all that, but the hard reality of the world is that to gain knowledge you have to spend money, and in capitalist societies the money needed to create knowledge has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is corporations. They spend the money to create the knowledge we use everyday to enrich our lives. Without corporate involvement, we'd still all be living in the stone age. But of course corporations are not selfless, they rely on the concept of intellectual property laws to gain a return on their investment. The whole liberal wussy shitfuck concept that is Linux and "open source" software is based on the disproven concept of socialism, that is that people will contribute "what they can" to society and take "what they want" back. Sure it sounds great, and many many people have been fooled by the appeal of such a concept, but rest assured the open source phenomenon will implode just as the soviet union did. Luckily, even though (as usual) the rest of the world is falling head over heels to switch their governments to socialist software, the USA is not. This will be a great thing for us in the long run, though, because when the inevitable open source crash happens, those of us who knew it was scam from the beginning will be in a powerful position to make significant amounts of money from those who fell for it. Namely dim witted liberals and frenchies like you.

  47. I grew up in Newport News, VA... by blakespot · · Score: 1
    I lived in Newport News from age 14 to age 24. It was a long 10 years. Well...it was ok for that age, I suppose - but when I go back now, from Alexandria, VA where I live now - eeeeeghh....it's just nice to get back home to good ole northern VA.

    Anyone else from around there?



    blakespot

    --
    -- Heisenberg may have slept here.
    iPod Hacks.com
    1. Re:I grew up in Newport News, VA... by mdeb · · Score: 1

      Yeah...I grew up in Franklin...and now live in Alexandria as well..

    2. Re:I grew up in Newport News, VA... by zzzmarcus · · Score: 1

      I just moved there from Seattle, WA for a computer job... it's, well, it's not Seattle by any means :)

      We're buying a home in the historic district though... maybe that will make it seem nicer? I hope? Please?

    3. Re:I grew up in Newport News, VA... by IndependentVik · · Score: 1

      I live in NN right now, and while I can appreciate why somebody would want to leave the place, why NoVA? It's like Hampton Roads. But with really, really horrible traffic ;)

      --
      I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
    4. Re:I grew up in Newport News, VA... by blakespot · · Score: 1

      Horrible traffic and one million more things to do on a given weekend. For instance, aside from Williamsburg which is a bit of a salvation for the area (I quite like Williamsburg - lived there for a year on my way out of NN), name two decent restaruants in the NN/Hampton area.

      (Applebee's doesn't count, BTW)

      blakespot

      --
      -- Heisenberg may have slept here.
      iPod Hacks.com
    5. Re:I grew up in Newport News, VA... by IndependentVik · · Score: 1

      :)

      Point taken. I've visited NoVA a few times, though, while my little sister went to GMU, and I have to say I wasn't terribly overwhelmed. The nightlife was cool, I'll give you that, but I wouldn't say it was markedly better than the Southside's (Norfolk, VA Beach, etc). I don't know, could be that's just because I don't know NoVA as well as I know hampton roads.

      --
      I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
  48. Re:god fearing? unlikely. by rudabager · · Score: 1

    Ok, I read your entire ignorant spew, and I wasnt going to respond until the last line where you call me a frenchie. I will have you know that I am bringing my life to an abrupt halt to join the marines this summer. I dont have the time to edu. u right now so all i can suggest is to research this a little more, and read the GPL. I am not a liberal, I am a capitalist. Onething you ahve to realize is that all the things you are saying are correct and i agree but they do not apply to software.

    --
    If I wanted easy I wouldnt be an engineer or a patriot.
  49. My Wife by The+Snowman · · Score: 1

    My wife, a linux geek, was arrested in Newport News when we lived there. If I had known they were looking into Linux, I would have asked her to install Linux on the police computer network :-)

    (she was let go, it was a misunderstanding... that's my story and I'm sticking to it!)

    --
    24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
  50. Analyses, Designs, and GIS by Kensor · · Score: 0

    Since there are so many government entities whose needs are similar but not identical, sharing the results of systems analyses for particular types of problems, and the systems designs for those problems' solutions, may be useful during other locales' discussions of similar situations. Linking specific open source to particular solutions would highlight what's ready to go, and what needs more development for a locality. Governments tend to use Geographical Information Systems for many types of activities. Integrating open source GIS (e.g., GRASS) into discussions of governmental open source efforts seems a good idea.

  51. Battle? Collaboration? by solprovider · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Most of us have recently seen an increase in news reports about open source software showing up in governments. Most of those reports seem to dramatize an upcoming battle between Linux and Microsoft. Rarely do we see information on the pros and cons of collaborative software development.

    It is difficult to have a battle when one side will not show up, and the other side's weapons will not work without rebooting several times.

    (Insert bullet. Detected new hardware, please reboot. Loading drivers, please reboot. Shoot. Insert bullet. Detected new hardware...)

    ---
    I learned about programming in the late 70s-early 80s. I started learning by reading code in magazines. I figured that someday I would share my code in magazines. Source was open because everything was interpreted.

    I naively thought that was how software was shared. I thought that all programming would be shared. Write once, or find someone else's version, then never write that function again.

    I grew up and entered the corporate world. I wrote code, and it was shared inside the company. We did not really have a method to share with other companies.

    Then the internet. All the source was open, at least for HTML pages, and continuing when JavaScript was added. Sharing was mandatory, because the "code" was still interpreted.

    But we also had these new things called software companies. I learned Pascal by reading the source to Visicalc. I have never seen the source for Lotus123 or MSExcel. How can I fix or add to it? How do I learn from it?

    Then I read about RMS and FSF and GNU. Sounded good. Why were businesses using proprietary programs when they could collaborate and get what they wanted cheaper? I still have not heard a good answer, other than management DOES NOT WANT any responsibility they can avoid. They prefer a fixed cost every year to a single effort that produces something that exactly fits their needs.

    ---
    For example, in October I noticed that one of my clients had an incredibly poor process: bad UI for input, little error-checking during input, more human resources dedicated to fixing the bad data than to entering it.

    I built a prototype of an application that would solve all that, run on worse client hardware than they were using, and allow remote access. It would integrate further up and down the process, so the people collecting the data would also input it. It included a similar business process that had not been automated yet. I arranged a meeting with management, and I demonstrated it to them.

    It turned out that for several years they had been considering an "industry standard" software package to improve this process. My demonstration was the catalyst that caused a decision to be made. They "chose" the industry standard. My software was:

    - cheaper in the short term. (They are my favorite client. I had built the prototype for fun. I wanted them to use it to demonstrate other skills that might have led to more business. So I told them to pick a price a little lower than the first year of the other product.)

    - free in the long term (I was giving them all source. The industry standard is proprietary and charges annual licensing.)

    - better suited to their business. (I built it for them. I know how they think. I know how they will use it and what output they expect. The industry standard is, well, standard.)

    - better integrated with their current software. (I BUILT THE CURRENT REPORTING SOFTWARE. My prototype was built to easily transfer into that program. We had already proven integration with the other backends. I do not know how the other product integrates, but IT is already complaining.)

    - better ownership. (Forget the source. The industry standard uses the ASP model where the proprietary company owns your data!)

    I have had every person involved with this process, except the decision maker, tell me that my "prototype" was already better than the new product.

    --
    I spend my life entertaining my brain.
  52. Open Source in Gov't will never happen by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1

    Government IT, particularly local government IT is dominated by politically connected VARs with hokey software and high profit margins.

    Vendors in vertical markets like medicine and government applications do not benefit from open source... the more their customers perceive that their systems are proprietary and special, the more willing they are to pay exorbitant licence and support fees. Well placed friendships or political relationships don't hurt either.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  53. Re:Great! by miracle69 · · Score: 1

    You're bitchin' about Arizona's DMV? Hell, once you turn 21, your license doesn't expire until you turn 65.

    Best 20 bucks and 40 minutes I've ever spent.

    --
    Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
  54. Newport News has a role model... by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

    ...when it comes to doing things on the cheap.

    This is where CEBAF, the Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator facility is. They built the place in large part with surplus stuff from other places, for a fraction of what it would have cost.

    I'm betting CEBAF didn't go all Microsofty when it came to their IT. There's homegrown experts right in their back yard.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  55. ERT Weenies by Flannelbum · · Score: 0

    I work everyday around ERT weenies from all over. The best way they can save money is to take a pay cut and to go for the equipment that works and not the stuff that is "cool" to have. Is saving lives a top priorety? Sure! But ask one of these guys. It's just a job and like a geek lusting over a the latest and greatest, I submit to you Emergency Responce (well, volenteer anyway).

    Bottom line is its just a job. You know how you want that bomb-ass dicky-whoo for your latest "project" ? Thats how these ppl are for whatever device they want. They just hide it under the mask of "it will save lives" bs tag. The latest and greatest x-thousand gallon per min fire truck costs $500,000 (half a mil) rather you could put 16 more police on scene a year or as much as 32 private security officers a year. OR we could switch this further to the health care industry and extrapolate the numbers per body, per pill, per hour, per take your pick because that side of things is all FUBAR.

    Open Source = good don't get me wrong but to hear of these ppl bitching about "cutting costs" is a load of bull. 9/11 shows that the over time pay is there and that the "demand" is there but lets keep ourselves in check here. No body is hurting more than they where. Scare tactics suck and will only get you so far. Security will ALWAYS be a negative in any business because it takes away from the bottom line. Security, on the whole, is a big fat red number negated from the production black.

  56. I live in NN, too . . . by IndependentVik · · Score: 1

    and had much the same reaction. I hope you don't live in the East End ;)

    --
    I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
  57. Professional consequences. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Whats really shocking is that my auto mechanic charges the same hourly rate as my family practice doctor, think about that for a minute."

    And if either one fucks up, you potentially can die. Think about that.

  58. "More for less"-employees. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The cash-strapped cities will benefit. The citizens will benefit. The open-source movement will benefit. Everyone's a winner. Apart from Micro$oft."

    The unemployed government worker is benefiting too.

  59. Open Office BUGS by plinius · · Score: 1

    The article was written by someone from the Open Office camp, which I recently had to REMOVE from my computer because it royally screwed up several documents that I tried to open. I will not say how it screwed them up, because I see no reason to support Open Bloatware with bug reports. But I WILL say, CAVEAT EMPTOR.

  60. Good /. Vocab! by bruthasj · · Score: 1

    Great one Sam!

    Sisyphean

  61. sigh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's "polled" (as in "asked"), not "pulled" (as in "dragged around"). Unfortunately, another poor spelling geek making us all look bad.

    Why doesn't everyone take twenty seconds to proofread their messages?

  62. Re:Battle? Collaboration? by gomel · · Score: 0

    the decision-maker felt safer going with the industry standard because he could say, "That is what our competition is using."

    Peter Drucker, the Guru of All Managers, said that the worst thing a company can make is to copy the competition. It gives you no advantage over your competition. You strategy is to rely on mistakes they make otherwise, which is a poor strategy.

    --
    Fight Frist Psoting!
    Browse Slashdot with 'Newest First'!
  63. Happy Ending by solprovider · · Score: 1

    the worst thing a company can make is to copy the competition. It gives you no advantage over your competition. You strategy is to rely on mistakes they make otherwise, which is a poor strategy.

    I agree totally. A number of managers and line people at the company agree totally. But it only took one manager in position of decision-maker to negate that thought.

    This story may have a happy ending. I found out yesterday that a major initiative will be starting later this year to apply my talents to other aspects of the business. It is being spearheaded by one of the managers who had an epiphany when seeing the "better way" during my demo. Although this one project may have been lost, there is a good chance the company will make great gains from the new initiatives.

    Part of the reason I presented that idea was to demonstrate my other talents. This way I will get the benefits of them realizing that they can benefit from applying what I do at other companies, without my needing to finish this project at a very low price.

    --
    I spend my life entertaining my brain.