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The Successor to AC'97: Intel High Definition Audio
An anonymous reader writes "A few days back Intel announced the name to
its previously dubbed 'Azalia' next-generation audio specification due out by midyear, under royalty-free license terms. The
Intel High Definition Audio solution will have increased bandwidth that allows for 192 kHz, 32-bit, multi-channel audio and uses
Dolby Pro Logic IIx technology 'which delivers the most natural, seamless and immersing 7.1 surround listening experience from any native 2-channel source'. The architecture is designed on the same cost-sensitive principles as
AC'97 and will allow for improved audio usage and stability."
Will it still also suffer from the same effects of background noise from the rest of the voltage going through the motherboard, or have they found a way to block that out also? 32/192 is fine as a standard... but it is still onboard sound. It needs some seperation from the motherboard to maintain a high S/N ratio
Does the royalty free license also imply that we'll see good opensource drivers for a plethora of platforms?
The very first thing I thought when I saw the article itself was, "Please don't let this be as bad as AC'97."
Don't get me wrong, AC97 is cheap, but it really dragged on the CPUs of the timeframe it came out. This one looks like it might be a shot at the Creative Labs end of the market, but with cheaper components (meaning most likely CPU-based)
I'm sure it'll be on pretty much every board before too long-- well, the non-nForce ones, anyway.
True progress from Intel, strange but true
This new system for audio managment is great news for portable devices such as DVD+screen, next-gen PDA devices and even handheld game systems *Gameboy Advance II or PSP?*
I've long been following PC related audio solutions, all the way from Sonarc to the latest 5 and 6 channel set-ups, my normal set-up is bass speaker, left / right and one for routing system alerts etc... this kind of announcement coupled along with the latest cards supporting the new Dolby processing solutions could well make me upgrade
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On its face this is a great announcement, but we must have all the usual concerns. Will it work in Linux? Are the hardware API's going to be published, so someone can write Linux drivers? Or is this going to be the next Centrino, needlessly obfuscated to give Intel's friends in Redmond yet another unfair advantage?
I'm also concerned that a new audio hardware API may introduce way too many opportunities for things like Digital Restrictions Management. Long term, doing that is of course futile because someone will find a way around it, but that doesn't stop some hardware makers from setting out the legal minefield anyway.
It's a sad state of affairs when politics and litigation are at the forefront of geeks' minds when technology ought to be.
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32-bit audio at 192kbps? Why not just stick with 24bit at 96kbps - it is good enough for most studios. And actually 16-bit at 44.1kbps is the most that these old ears are gonna hear anyway - if even that well after sitting front for Jimi Hendrix.
Hear hear!
Pun completely and totally intended.
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Logo that you could stick on the box and "Journalists" et al could include in the normal fluffy Buzz Word compliance reviews.
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.. but when will we see high definition video support with component and dvi i/o?
But assuming you aren't, just find a sound card with a digital output (I think all the higher end cards have SPDIF now) and plug it in to your home theater.
This sounds like it could be more smoke and mirrors, though there really isn't enough information to be sure.
ProLogic IIx will "synthesize" multiple channels from a stereo or 5.1 source. I sincerely hope Intel isn't thinking "we can do the same old thing (stereo) and marketing folks can call it 7.1 multichannel because we put this Dolby fake surround processing in the chip!"
Despite how much ProLogic has advanced, it still doesn't hold a candle to true, *discrete* 6+ channel sound (like DD/AC3 or DTS).
I gather that with 48khz there are ikky problematic sounds if you forget to filter out high frequecies that reach all the way down into the audible domain - 196khz ensures that these artifacts will be well out of the range of hearing and the abilities of most equipment to reproduce.
I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
192khz refers the the sample rate, how many times per second the sound is sampled, not how many cycles per second. While theoretically, 192khz sample rate does allow frequencies higher than the ear can hear to be recorded, its real purpose is to make the lower frequencies more accurate - for example, a 22050hz sine tone (if you can hear that high!) sampled at 44100hz is only sampled twice per cycle, and would effectively be recorded as a square wave (although, admittedly at that frequency you'd need to be a dog to tell the difference!)
I think you're deluding yourself. Audiophiles make a lot of claims that they can hear certain things, but they never test their own claims using double-blind studies in which the other variables are all controlled for.
I teach a physics lab class, and in one of the labs, I have students test their own hearing, to see the highest and lowest frequencie they can hear. There's some individual variation, but basically the top end of everyone's range comes out to be no less than 10 kHz, and no more than 20 kHz. I have never had a single student who could hear frequencies above 20 kHz.
The 44 kHz (IIRC) sampling frequency of a CD means that you can actually record signals with frequencies as high has 22 kHz (half the sampling frequency -- that's a methematical theorem about the discrete Fourier transform). The reason they designed CD audio around that figure was exactly because of the limits of human hearing.
Even if there was a hypothetical human who could hear 30 kHz, there would be many other things preventing it from being useful musically. For instance, your tweeters most likely can't respond well to those frequencies. Furthermore, the music might sound worse to such a person if the 30 kHz stuff was left in. The musician couldn't hear it, and therefore couldn't adjust his tone to make it sound good. The audio engineer also couldn't hear it, and therefore couldn't judge whether it sounded good or not.
Another practical issue is that distortion will always introduce high-frequency harmonics, so that even if you could hear those frequencies, a lot of what you were hearing would probably be spurious stuff coming from distortion.
People who really want to hear good stereo sound should spend their effort on the two things that will make a lot of difference: (1) getting good speakers, and (2) working on the acoustics of the room, the placement of the speakers in the room, and the placement of their own head in the room. Note that all the stuff under #2 is free or cheap. The audio industry would rather have you waste your money on stuff that's expensive, which is why they promote expensive, superstitious ways of improving sound, such as gold monster cable.
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Since you can fit ~80minutes of music on a ~700meg CD you have ~146K/sec for your music. That is at 16bit 44.1KHz stereo songs. Now audio data will take 8.7 times as much memory if recorded in stereo, but if recorded with eight (7.1) channels each song will take almost 35x as much memory thanks to the higher sampling rate and the use of 32bit values instead of 16bit. That is 5.08 megs/sec for your audio.
:)
I like that this standard is very future proof, but when can we use it? Already CD sound is good enough for all but maybe 10,000 people on the planet. Most people's audio experience is probaby limited by their audio hardware, not the source sound. Hey, most people are quite happy encoding their mp3s at 128k!
Where will the high quality sound data come from? Audio CDs are still going to be 16bit, stereo, 44KHz. DVDs have compressed audio. Almost all video games use compressed audio of some sort too because we don't have enough memory yet for even CD quality sound.
I love that it is 7.1 and that it is very future proof, but other than making 7.1 standard it seems to be a standard for marketing to use as an advantage, not something consumers will ever use (by the time they can use it they'll have upgraded anyway). It seems that this beyond CD quality audio is just included because they can and we'll never see it in use this decade
Better to overbuild than underbuild I guess. But I'm not excited about this promise of higher quality audio.
for example, a 22050hz sine tone (if you can hear that high!) sampled at 44100hz is only sampled twice per cycle, and would effectively be recorded as a square wave (although, admittedly at that frequency you'd need to be a dog to tell the difference!)
This is completely and utterly wrong. I hear this very often though.
At 44100Hz sampling, a 22050Hz signal will be reconstructed as a 22050Hz SINE WAVE. The reconstruction of sampled signals is not as simple as you think it is. This is covered in any elementary DSP book.
With IDEAL equipment sampling at frequency N allows perfect reconstruction of all frequencies N/2 in all cases. The rather = comes about because of the potential of sampling the frequency N/2 at the zero crossings. However, if only two nonzero points are sampled of the N/2 component, it can be reconstructed perfectly.
Using a higher sampling rate has to do more with counteracting clock jitter and the error introduced by non ideal equipment.
First off, 32 bit, 192 Khz, wants to appeal to those very serious about audio. 32 bit cards can have a dynamic range ratio of 144 db. That's beyond what normal humans can dfifferentiate, which is 120 db if we're lucky. Not only that, but professional 24 bit cards far exceed the needs and capabilities of most , if not every, user, with aaround 110 db of dynamic range. And they're going to put this mega high tech onboard? Hmm. 2ndly, the inclusion of Dolby. This is to appeal to the movie guys, but the real serious audio guys know that Dolby encoded audio is like an MP3, lossy compression. Serious audio guys will frown on that aspect. Incorporating these 2 aspects seems somewhat contradictory, which marketers always tend to do when trying to appeal to everyone. I, for one, remain highly skeptical. CD
Quick google found this review that includes nice pictures.
4.1: Front Left, Right; Mid Left, Right
5.1: Front Left, Right, Center; Mid Left, Right
6.1: Front Left, Right, Center; Mid Left, Right; Back Center
7.1: Front Left, Right, Center; Mid Left, Right; Back Left, Right
I always thought the mids ended up being farther back than shown in the picture though.
The hottest selling gadget of the "music" world is the MP3 player and the seemingly hottest article of contention is the online music store. None of these are even close to being prepared for 32-bit let alone the sizes of the files necessary to create such a file.
There are a lot of comments about 6.1 and 7.1 CD's or recordings and it's all rather silly. There's no real precident of a true recording done in surround. Would you really want the lead guitar only coming from the left rear channel? The only time that I would think that it would be cool would be at a live performance, but as far as I know no one has really done anything like this.
So were looking at several GB of needless information to recreate a CD with most likely marginal musical worth, and Intel is leading the charge? I think they're looking at their dwindling x86 market share (AMD is on the upswing, not pushing my Mac-centric views out there) and trying to find a niche by using it's brand recognition. I think Dolby and DTS will have more to say as to whether this proposed solution will have any legs.
Remember most of the manufacturers and broadcasters still haven't totally agreed upon an officially acceptable HD format! DVD took too long. CD was all Sony, but took long enough for acceptance. Where is this leaving the consumer? A 32-bit 192kHz audio card in their computer, decoding 7.1 channels of information so they can play video games using samples that have been resampled from their original 16 or 8-bit formats.
I think the word is overkill and it's needless. Most people can't tell the difference and for those that can, I scoff at you. I've worked with some of the best audio engineers in the world and they wouldn't be able to hear the nuances you claim. There is "air" there in higher fidelity recordings, but most speakers can't play it back any way. Ah well, thoughts?
Peace
Centrino's wireless Ethernet controller is roughly the WiFi equivalent of a WinModem. Some of the components that are traditionally done in hardware (I'd guess the same stuff as in WinModems, like the DSP work, though I don't know the exact extent of the "softwarization") are done in software. Intel is not holding back on Linux support to secretly help out Microsoft -- I agree with you there. They're just in the same position as the WinModem vendors. If they supply their product's crown jewels -- open source the software that does a lot of the heavy lifting in their hardware product -- they've funded the R&D for what will be promptly snapped up by competitors and produced more cheaply.
So, you are right that there is no plot to help out Microsoft, but the grandparent is right that Intel may be cagey about supporting a platform where users are rabid about having source (and much of the architecture works less reliably without source).
Frankly, I'm frusterated with the whole laptop situation, and I wish, wish, wish that laptop vendors would make some critical mistake in the price wars and accidently commoditize their product, with standard components and form factors, so that things can be built and swapped out a la desktops.
May we never see th
Hopefully someone will automate or simplify ALSA for low-end use.
The distros that have shipped ALSA as default, like SuSE, have had pretty good dummy-proof setup of ALSA for a while. Probably every major distro will be using ALSA in 2.6, which means that the remaining OSS/Free holdouts, like Red Hat, will be doing up easy-to-use UIs for ALSA.
I also stopped using ALSA a while ago -- it was just a pain in the ass to recompile the alsa-driver package each time I upgraded the kernel, and all the software I use also supports an OSS interface (and *most* was using ALSA through the OSS compatibility interface). I expect I'll be using it again in 2.6.
May we never see th
Don't get me wrong, AC97 is cheap, but it really dragged on the CPUs of the timeframe it came out.
Well, that's not really AC97's fault.
AC97 is really nothing more than a 5 wire signal specification. It has more to do with voltages and waveforms on wires. And a register set in the codec that the wires are talking to.
But that's the idea of AC97 - you don't need to know who made the codec, only that it's AC97. Then it's a drop in replacement, pretty much.
But controllers - everybody and their brother has a different idea how to talk to an AC97 codec. And it's the controller that determines the performance. Are you bit banging your codec? Then performance will suck. Are you using interrupts? Performance will improve. Using DMA? Performance will improve again. Does your DMA engine suck? Performance will drop.
If you're having a drag on your cpu due to audio, it isn't AC97 that's at fault. It's someone's lousy idea for a controller. AC97 is a spec, not a gadget.
Weaselmancer
Weaselmancer
rediculous.