Slashdot Mirror


Crack the Code and Win a Million Bucks

JS_RIDDLER noted a Toronto Star article about a sort of contest to crack some encryption and win a million bucks. The article is a bit fluffy, but it getst the point across... we wasted all those RC5 keys ;)

27 of 276 comments (clear)

  1. 2 bad... by internet-redstar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... they should have left an option open for people finding holes in the ACTUAL implementation... Now only mathematicians stand a chance - go, go, go, you few good number theoretisists not employed by the NSA! =-= insert favorite conspiricy theory here =-=

    1. Re:2 bad... by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Modern cryptographic algorithms are good enough - it's the protocols that need work. Security problems happen in the implementation, most of the time the algorithms are rock-solid. DES, being as old as it is, is still a pretty prominent work horse (at least in the form of 3DES). Phasing it out with Rijndael (AES) just takes alot of time and money.

      As for Elliptic Curve Cryptography as mentioned in this article - it's still in its infancy - at least compared to other ciphers. This is just a stupid publicity show. But I bet I can win that $1M with an investment of under $20.

      There is an old KGB proverb: "It is easier to break fingers than it is to break codes." So, using my $20 budget on a pipe cutter, fifty feet of rope, and an ice pick, I believe I can recover the key. ;)

    2. Re:2 bad... by CGP314 · · Score: 5, Funny

      As for Elliptic Curve Cryptography as mentioned in this article - it's still in its infancy - at least compared to other ciphers. This is just a stupid publicity show. But I bet I can win that $1M with an investment of under $20.

      How about I provide the financial backing for your plan and we split the profit.


      --
      In London? Need a Physics Tutor?

      American Weblog in London

  2. The downside is ... by pherris · · Score: 4, Funny

    it's really a one time pad. =)

    --
    "And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
  3. I read this and wonder about UNIX by ObviousGuy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They are using keys that sound big 168 bits, 256 bits, etc. But those aren't really that big, only 21 bytes and 32 bytes respectively. These sentences are longer than those keys.

    Then I note that UNIX limits passwords to 8 bytes. A measly 64 bits.

    I don't think I can sleep well knowing that all that stands between my data and some hacker is such a small string.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    1. Re:I read this and wonder about UNIX by mbyte · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most modern unix system can use 128bit MD5 or 160bit SHA1 hash algorithms (instead of the standard 56 bit unix-crypt) .. get a better unix and sleep well again :)

    2. Re:I read this and wonder about UNIX by oz1cz · · Score: 4, Insightful
      An 8-character password using 92 possible characters leaves 736 possibilities, or just over 9 bits.

      No, my friend, it's not 92*8 but 92 to the 8th power (92**8, if you like). Thats 5,132,188,731,375,616 which is a good deal more than 736.

    3. Re:I read this and wonder about UNIX by sm0yby · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, 2^64 is a pretty large number. Your math depends on the fact that the password is padded to a 64-bit length before being hashed, though. What if it is padded to some other length, or indeed not padded at all? (This could for example be done using a stream cipher. Encrypt the password, followed by a known fixed-length string. The hash is the encrypted known string. I'm not saying such a scheme would be secure, though.)

      However, how many use the entire eight-bit character set in their completely random passwords? I don't know anyone who does. So you really don't have to try the entire range. I recall that English has about 1.3 bits of entropy per character - that would make a random word have about 1.3n bits of entropy. Eight characters would then make for 1351 (2^[1.3 * 8]) combinations.

      I am sure the above is flawed, and a random encryption key is a very different beast in the first place, but the point is still valid: in order to crack a password represented as 64 bits, you don't have to try 2^64 combinations. If that was so, we would all just move to 16-bit Unicode for representing passwords and the problem would be over with.

      --
      Been modded interesting, insightful and funny. Why does real life have to be so different?
  4. RSA vs ECC by noelp · · Score: 5, Informative
    For those of you who are suprised at the number of bits needed to secure data using ECC compared to RSA, a good discussion can be found here

    http://www.cs.uct.ac.za/courses/CS400W/NIS/papers0 0/mlesaoan/paper.html

    --
    'Internet! Is that thing still around?' - Homer Simpson
  5. Prize breakdown / contest page by morcheeba · · Score: 4, Informative

    The contest website doesn't mention a $1M prize, but from the "details" pdf, it looks like you can earn the $1M prize by solving 19 smaller problems, each with their own bounty. $30k for an "infeasable" problem seems a little low to me... I imagine the mob may pay more ;-)

    From the pdf: The 109-bit Level I challenges are feasible using a very large network of computers. The 131-bit Level I challenges are expected to be infeasible against realistic software and hardware attacks, unless of course, a new algorithm for the ECDLP is discovered.

    The Level II challenges are infeasible given today's computer technology and knowledge. The elliptic curves for these challenges meet the stringent security requirements imposed by existing and forthcoming ANSI banking standard


    Challenge Field-size(in-bits) Estimated-number-of-machine-days Prize(US$)
    Elliptic curves over f2^m - Exercises:
    ECC2-79 79 352 Handbook of Applied Cryptography & Maple V software
    ECC2-89 89 11278 Handbook of Applied Cryptography & Maple V software
    ECC2K-95 97 8637 $ 5,000
    ECC2-97 97 180448 $ 5,000

    Level I challenges:
    ECC2K-108 109 1.3 x 10 6 $ 10,000
    ECC2-109 109 2.1 x 10 7 $ 10,000
    ECC2K-130 131 2.7 x 10 9 $ 20,000
    ECC2-131 131 6.6 x 10 10 $ 20,000

    Level II challenges:
    ECC2-163 163 6.2 x 10 15 $ 30,000
    ECC2K-163 163 3.2 x 10 14 $ 30,000
    ECC2-191 191 1.0 x 10 20 $ 40,000
    ECC2-238 239 2.1 x 10 27 $ 50,000
    ECC2K-238 239 9.2 x 10 25 $ 50,000
    ECC2-353 359 1.3 x 10 45 $ 100,000
    ECC2K-358 359 2.8 x 10 44 $ 100,000

    Elliptic curves over Fp - Exercises:
    ECCp-79 79 146 Handbook of Applied Cryptography & Maple V software
    ECCp-89 89 4360 Handbook of Applied Cryptography & Maple V software
    ECCp-97 97 71982 $ 5,000

    Level I challenges:
    ECCp-109 109 9.0 x 10 6 $ 10,000
    ECCp-131 131 2.3 x 10 10 $ 20,000

    Level II challenges:
    ECCp-163 163 2.3 x 10 15 $ 30,000
    ECCp-191 191 4.8 x 10 19 $ 40,000
    ECCp-239 239 1.4 x 10 27 $ 50,000
    ECCp-359 359 3.7 x 10 45 $ 100,000

  6. The real promise of this technology... by bc90021 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...is that it uses much smaller keys with the same level of encryption. This makes it useful for handhelds and phones, and network devices. If you've never heard of this before, chances are you're already using it, too, as this is prevalent already in many of the aforementioned devices.

  7. no DMCA in Canada by Sophrosyne · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's a Canadian company, there is no DMCA in Canada...

  8. Fallacy by savagedome · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the guru Bruce Schneier, Fallacy of cracking contests

    1. Re:Fallacy by mistered · · Score: 4, Informative
      Much more relevant is Schneier's Essay on Certicom and ECC. Note though that this isn't your typical doghouse style "crack our code for $1 MEELEEON dollars" contest with fine print that says you have to do it in three days on a Commodore 64. It's a fair contest for a "real" algorithm. Anyone who completes any of the sub-contests is (a) not in it for the money and (b) unlikely to be a generic Slashdot hacker.

      By the way this is Schneier's recommendation on ECC:

      My recommendation is that if you're working in a constrained environment where longer keys just won't fit -- smart cards, some cellphones or pagers, etc. -- consider elliptic curves. If the choice is elliptic curves or no public-key algorithm at all, use elliptic curves. If you don't have performance constraints, use RSA. If you are concerned about security over the decades (almost no systems are), use RSA.

      --
      Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two.
  9. Better than RSA? by jrockway · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think the company who came up (or rather markets) ECC [eliptic curce cryptography] should be careful about saying that ECC is more secure than RSA. RSA has stood up to A LOT of cryptanalysis, simply because of it's age. ECC might have bad keys or something else we don't know about simply because we have not have time to try all attacks yet. Who knows, tomorrow someone may find a trivial algorithm for taking the discrete logarithm on an EC (rendering ECC useless). Then again, someone may find a way of doing a simple discrete logarithm (rendering RSA useless). Both are highly unlikely, but hey -- stranger things have happened.

    Basically, take a company's claim with a grain of salt. Right now I'll keep my data encrypted with something more tested (3DES anyone?).

    --
    My other car is first.
  10. Wouldn't rush to adopt this... by CaptainAlbert · · Score: 3, Informative

    The problem with ECC is that the "hard problem" on which its security relies is based on some non-trivial mathematics which, until recently, no-one's really been interested in. Contrast this with RSA, which is based on a comparatively easy-to-understand problem (factoring a product of two primes) which has been known about for centuries.

    What this means is, it's possible (very unlikely, but possible) that the conjecture that the elliptic curve logarithm problem is very hard to solve might be proved wrong tomorrow. That is much less of a risk with RSA (although see under quantum computing, if you go in for that sort of thing).

    Last time I checked, the best "brute force" algorithm to attack ECC was the Pollard rho method. Is that still true?

    --
    These sigs are more interesting tha
  11. Quick,someone start a distributed computer effort! by drfishy · · Score: 5, Funny

    One million dollars split between 500,000 people is what??? TWO DOLLARS!!! Well, at least we'll be able to pay that annoying paper boy...

  12. Re:Brute force by Entrope · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was slightly worried that this would be what Bruce Schneier calls "doghouse crypto" -- if you use it, you belong in the doghouse. The kind of companies that sell doghouse crypto usually don't say what algorithm they use, they usually use a "proprietary" (non-critically-reviewed) algorithm, and they usually don't have nearly enough knowledge to do a good review themselves. Fortunately, it's ECC, which is well known and well reviewed.

    Elliptic Curve Cryptography is, like RSA and Unix crypt, believed to be hard because it looks like a one-way door: It is easy to go in one direction, but unless you have exactly the right data (or an obscene amount of time), impossible to go in the other direction.

    Classic Unix crypt is limited by its key size to 56 bits, which makes it practical for a dedicated attack to break. RSA is limited by its structure to use keys that are related to large prime numbers; prime numbers are relatively rare. ECC shares neither of those limitations, so you get a lot more bang from your bits.

  13. Re:Brute force by Sique · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In theory and given enough time, yes.

    But if you can chuck all electrons of the world on it (about 10^91) and every electron is swinging with 10^15Hz, and every swing allows you to do a Yes-No-decision, you have a number cruncher that can check about 10^106 bits a second. If your key is 1024 bits long, you can check about 10^103 keys every second. There are 2^1024 different 1024 bit keys out there (about 10^320), so you need about 10^217 seconds to exhaust the key space with brute force, if you have the whole universe working as a big computer for you. A year has a little more than 30 Mio seconds, so your world computer needs 10^209 years for the task, give or take about a factor of 100 maybe. 10^211 years, 10^207 years, what's the difference anyway? :) Our current universe is about 15 billion years old, so if you had 10^197 parallel universes, and you started at the Big Bang, you may be ready with brute force by now.

    Imagine that:

    100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 universes!

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  14. Yawn by fruey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This company is saying their encryption can't reasonably be brute forced with current computing, even if you got pretty much everyone on the internet (more than are currently running SETI) to start brute forcing the keys. It's harder than RSA encryption mathematics theory, on a key which is like 163 bits for the $20,000 prize, and to get a million you'd have to break the scheme for any bit length I imagine, not just the 224 bit key they mention earlier in the article.

    So, unless there is a quantum leap (how ironic that quantum computing would indeed be a quantum leap) this is not some kind of Distributed project. RC5 was fairly simple bruteforcing at the end of the day.

    The summary of the article is like so dumb I cannot believe it passes muster. And the million bucks are as likely to be awarded as a release of Duke Nukem Forever and Ever Amen. Nothing to see here, move along.

    --
    Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
  15. Don't do it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's a trick.

    Mathwiz: "Hello? I think I may have cracked your encryption".
    NSA: "Great. Just stay where you are and we'll over with you money in a second".

    [40 seconds later]

    Police: "Drop your weapon and step out side!"
    Mathwiz: "But I'm unarmed!! Dude!"
    Police: "I said DROP YOUR WEAPON".
    [BLAM!]

  16. It's not as much a matter of IF someone manages... by WegianWarrior · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...to crack it, but as of how long it will take them. Information that is worth a lot today may be worthless tomorrow, and by next week it'll be history. So the question isn't about making a perfect encoding (we allready have one, namely 'one time pads'), but finding the best encoding for the application. Also bear in mind the rule of thumb that states that the thoughter the code, the more difficult (think CPU-cycles and batterydrain) it is to encode it in the first place. Off course, just how strong thats strong enought will change as the tools for encryption, decryption and codebreeaking gets stronger.


    Remember folks, an encrypted message don't have to be unbreakable, it just has to be hard enought to break. One rule of thumb is that it should cost more to break than the one breaking it will earn on doing so.


    Besides, one can learn a lot about whats going on even if you can break the code. Where does the signal originates? Where is it heading. Does it occour on a frequent basis? What is the matter of transmitting? The more you learn about the message, the more you learn about the reason it's beeing sendt - even if you don't know what it says. THEN you can often start using social enginering to gain access to the key, or better yet, to the unencrypted message.

    --
    Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
  17. Book by savagedome · · Score: 3, Informative

    If any of you is seriously considering going at this, I recommend the well known Applied Cryptography

    Slashdot has reviewed this before.

  18. XM Radio by Silicon+Mike · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I went over to their website and parused around... Seems they did the security to XM Radio, http://www.certicom.com/download/aid-78/success_XM Radio.pdf) which humors me because XM Radio was hacked about 2 months after it went live.. All you need is a part from an old Dish Network reciever and a soldier iron.

  19. This isn't news by krysith · · Score: 3, Informative

    In the grand tradition of "It came over the wire service", Slashdot posts an article about a contest that has been going on since 1997. IIRC, I bookmarked http://www.certicom.com/research/ch2.html last january (I'm not sure because I have changed computers since then). Its been long enough that Certicom has changed their website too.

    ECC is interesting, although I am not 100% sure that it is as relatively strong as Certicom claims. Elliptic curves are similar to the discrete log method, which can be shown to be approximately as strong as RSA (factoring). I am not an expert in Elliptic curves, so I can't speak as to whether there are any 'shortcuts' which would reduce the problem to a discrete log one, but if so, then the ECC would be no stronger than RSA. Elliptic curves, by the way, are the same branch of mathematics which brought us the proof of Fermat's last theorem.

  20. The Fallacy of Cracking Contests by CognitiveFusion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wouldn't waste a CPU cycle on this contest.

    Bruce Schneier nailed the truth about cracking contests in a December 1998 article in his crypto-gram newsletter, "The Fallacy of Cracking Contests".

    Here is another article he published in November 1999, "Elliptic Curve Public-Key Cryptography".

    Interesting reading.

    --
    Fools ignore complexity; pragmatists suffer it; experts avoid it; geniuses remove it. ~A. Perlis
  21. Re:searching for primes? by satterth · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    Being called a dork on Slashdot must be like being called the retard in special ed.