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Reviving the Firewall Design Program?
rcha101 asks: "I'm not sure if many of you are aware but Robert L. Ziegler use to host (IMHO) the best online firewall configuration tool (formerly available here here, check out the link now for his sad synopsis) until recently when he decided to pull the plug on it. I have since been trying to contact him in an effort to get this tool back online and develop the IPFW2 side of it (correct some of the rules, add extra features to it etc) but have had no luck. Does anyone know how to contact him? Has anyone else been in a similar situation? What web tools do you use that could suddenly disappear overnight? Robert are you out there?"
I just discovered today that a fine site (http://www2.gol.com/users/tame/swing/examples/) with losts of custom swing components went 404.
I was able to retrieve some stuff using the wayback machine, but it is still a shame to see the site itself go.
Maybe the poster should try the wayback machine too.
If only I could come up with a good sig
.sig: file not found
Sounds like he learned that giving away free useful stuff doesn't pay the bills. Especially, when the users of the stuff thinks it makes you subservient to them.
Here's a brief synopsis:
I never made a dime from my obviously useful program, and therefore will not work on it any further because I need to feed myself and my family.
Because I'm so bitter about it, I'm completely closing up shop, and denying anyone any further benefit from my, until recently, free contribution to society.
As far as I'm concerned, you moochers can all go suck it, I'm through.
I don't blame him, he did a lot of work, it was obviously being used by many people who could have afforded hima few luxuries.
But on the other hand, if you don't want to give something away for free, then don't. If you do, then you can't complain about getting nothing in return later - that's simply shortsighted.
The linux router project guy is the epitome of the, "I didn't mean to get nothing back from something I gave away" pitiful rants.
-Adam
I don't know much about the project, but his attitude about his project and users is absolutley deplorable.
First off, he shouldn't think of his users as moochers. First off, he was offering it for free. You give something away, you shouldn't ever expect anything back. Second, I'm sure there were many people, like the poster of this article, who are grateful users, but just haven't voiced their opinion. Personally, I'd rather have one message in my inbox about 5 reasons why my software sucks than 100 messages about reasons why it rocks.
Things like feature requests are very common for an admin of a project. And many people out there are rude, or just not conciderate, and their requests may seem like demands to some people. As far as technical support of the software, setup a listserv and make it community support. I would expect any message I send to any project admin about technical support to be brushed off.
One more thing, if he made this an open source project and is now hording the source, that is just wrong. The open source community is just that, you give to them and they provide peer review. True it doesn't always end up that way, but maybe that's because you didn't manage to get the right users.
Anyway, I think he needs to pick up a copy of The Cathedrial and the Bazaar. That may shed a little light onto his problem.
Mewyn Dy'ner
What of similar value have you created and given away for free?
You are representative of what drove him away from his goal.
Anyway, I think he needs to pick up a copy of The Cathedrial and the Bazaar. That may shed a little light onto his problem.
Perhaps his users should have picked up a copy of The Cathedral and the Bazaar. They are not owed software.
I think you are representing the today's open source "user"'s view and by that you are doing a disservice to the entire community, as people reading your blurb will consider the behaviour you stand for acceptable and will thus continue to steal other people's efforts without so much as an acknowledgement, let alone recognition of their work.
Perhaps you missed the part where he was saying he invested money and time in this. Or the part with people demanding free customizations outside of the "home user" realm the software was intended for.
What's sad is that many people, like you, will look at your message with today's Internet user expectations of "deserving" to get everything, that everyone on the Internet "owes" you something, and they will agree with you, how dares this guy not continue to give his unappreciated work for free ?
All I can say is you deserve what's coming.
One thing's for sure: you never gave anything of value for free.
My sentiments, too, although I would have at least left the pieces up on a server somewhere.
I have all kinds of bizarre little projects of my own kicking around, and I try to never obselete them; every so often (maybe 3 or 4 times a year) someone emails me to say "thanks for that great little utility" and I have to mail back and say "which one?" because the thing is so trivial and long-forgotten that I have a snowflake's chance in Sudan of guessing right. It's not as if one download a week is going to be expensive.
Ending support is fine, but I think throwing a hissy fit is a bit over the top. Others will think differently.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Leave it up for the good of society at large: don't base your decision on how many losers leech and profit, base it on how many sysadmins who are too flat-out to blink (let alone figure out how to send you money) have had their lives bettered by your efforts.
After the flood, no raindrop wants to admin responsibility.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
If I'm not mistaken, he was killed in a car accident in early 2003. Unfortunately, none of his kin/sucessors knew the importance of updating his website(s), so when the ISP bill expires the plug will be pulled on the content as well (no pun intended).
I'm not 100% certain about the accident, however I recall hearing something about it a while back.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
I'm thinking along the lines of Guarddog and Guidedog for KDE/Linux or KMyFirewall
After all, when you run a network tool to setup your firewall, and you accidentally block yourself from the net, how do you generate another set of rules to get back online? (I know, /etc/init.d/iptables stop)
Overrated / Underrated : Moderation
4051 total
basquette:/etc/shorewall# wc -l
145
I can understand 145 lines.
4051 lines is a pain to audit. Don't tell me I should audit by pointing and clicking, that is too painful for words.
his book is excellent, and a way to contact:
/ 20 00/ziegler.jan2000.htmle xec/obidos/ASIN/073571099 6/qid=1074769733/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_3_1/202-4508407-8 460612
http://www.ieee-security.org/Cipher/BookReviews
http://www.amazon.co.uk/
(this is the same guy right?)
A blog I run for the wealth
But I was shocked and saddened when goatse, an essential part of a troller's repertoire was unjustly removed from the interweb.
Yes, it's a sad day when censorship rules on the web. But if one wants, one can go see a real goat and even pet it if you wish.
personally i think he's a whining dick, but, he did submit this story.
personally, i find sandin's fc products to be better, but, who knows
vodka, straight up, thank you!
firewall builder
i started using the project almost a year ago, and have really been impressed with all the extras that have come on-line since then: user guide, FAQ, web portal, articles, cookbook, etc.
the application:
has a wizard to help jump start building a ruleset
abstracts firewall-specific syntax from firewall design
builds rules for several firewall implementations (iptables, pix, ipfilter, ipf)
for an administrator wanting something more technical than a web-based rule builder, but simpler than learning firewall-specific syntax and implementation details, i recommend firewall builder.
a satisfied user
"I'd always hoped that I might get something out of the effort for myself and never did."
Hey, Robert Ziegler, what about your book, based on the same subject matter? Five years ago I was looking to set up a 2.2 firewall for my home LAN. I came across your firewall tool. I thought it was great, and I wanted to learn more about what you had done with ipchains. So I bought your book after learning about it through your site - your site out of which you got nothing. I found it to be quite useful. Are you telling us that you made absolutely no money at all on that book? I bought one, didn't you get a portion of my $40?
Money aside, are you saying that you got nothing out of it? I found your book through your site. I read your book. Now I know your name. If someone's interested in learning about firewalls, I can say, "I have this great book by Robert Ziegler. You should check it out. The samples are based on the old ipchains tool, but many of the concepts he covers are worth reading." You're a published technical author. Is that worth nothing to you?
Frankly, Robert Ziegler, I'm disappointed in you. Not only did I use your site, but I never demanded any kind of support from you. Hell, I never even asked you. I just bought your book. Just because there were plenty of assholes that thought your website was an open invitation to burden you with their firewall problems does not mean that there weren't plenty more of us who treated you with respect, used your tool, and bought the book you were trying to sell. Don't forget it.
How are you going to keep them down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus?
I really can't say I blame the guy... developing software is more fun than most types of work out there, but it's still work. I always wondered what would motivate somebody to work at their regular job (which, if you're a programmer, is likely somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 hrs/week) and then go home and work on another bit of software which you plan to turn around and give away for free. Are they hoping for a flood of donations? Are they hoping that their open-source experience will be good "resume stuffer" when they apply for their next job? Or are there really just that many philanthropists out there willing to work for the sheer pleasure of a job well done?
I was often tempted, back in my bad-old DOS/Windows 3.1 programming days, to try to port some of the Unix tools I had grown to love and rely on (such as grep, sed, awk, etc.) to the DOS platform just so that I would have a slightly more usable environment. Unfortunately for me, I'm too lazy... imagine my surprise when I came across Cygwin years later - Not only had they done ten times what I had envisioned, they were giving it away for free!
Today, my whole setup is open source software; I try to donate money to projects when they provide a way to donate to it (for example, I still can't figure out how to donate to the Linux kernel), but I get the distinct impression I'm in the minority.
Honestly... what really motivates an open source developer? I have a few patches I'd love to submit to CVS (if they'd ever approve the observer access I requested two weeks ago), but I can't even begin to imagine how many hours of effort went into, say, the XFree86 server that's hosting the WindowMaker window manager that's supporting the Mozilla browser I'm typing this on right now. Why do they do it?
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.