Slashdot Mirror
Wal*Mart continues push for RFID adoption
John3 writes "Wal*Mart is continuing to push for vendors to add RFID tags to cases of products for easier tracking through their warehouse distribution system. Most vendors have until 2006 to comply, but their top 100 suppliers must have the tags in place by 2005. Wal*Mart stopped their push for retail level tagging last summer, but by forcing tagging at the wholesale level the cost of the technology will drop as vendors comply with Wal*Mart's decree. How long before price is no longer a barrier to RFID item level tagging?"
From the article: "RFID tags contain a small chip and an antenna, usually coiled, to broadcast a signal. They were originally attached to Allied planes in World War II to distinguish them from enemy aircraft.
I find this hard to believe. Maybe they mean that the mechanism is the same ? Can somebody please shed some light on this ?
I think that RFID will easily replace the barcode within the next 2 to 3 years. Like you were asking, when is the price going to go down? Right now it's low, very low but still more than printing a barcode. RFID technology is still growing and the tags are becoming smaller. In 2 to 3 years the price will be pennies.
Don't expect retailers to adopt it right away though. People watch and follow WalMart but no one really adopts new ideas like they do. I'm not endorsing them or even condoning them, just observing. Think about other retailers, go into their stores and see what kind of registers they're running. Look at see what kind of LDT/LRTs they're running. That will give you an idea of where they're at. Registers running DB9s, DB25s, Null Modem Cables, Pentium I and II class processors and even older technology...
The point is that retailers are too slow to adapt to new technology because it cuts into their numbers.
There is a library or two in Michigan that use RFID tech on all of their books. It's great they can locate a book by running a scan for it and go to the exact location. Imagine being able to find that last can of Chicken Noodle soup. Where's my soup dammnit?!?
-Scott
One time I took the metal strip out of a rental video, and put it in my wallet. I promptly forgot about it.
It was funny weeks later when I kept setting off an inventory control system and couldn't figure out why.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
3M has already built Organic Field-Effect Transistor (OFET) based RFID tags.
It's not far off anymore.
China Opens Front
In Standards Debate
Beijing Targets Technology
To Track Shipped Goods
Using Radio Frequencies
By CHARLES HUTZLER
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
BEIJING -- China is opening a front in its campaign to set global technology standards by trying to influence an emerging inventory-tracking technology -- a move that could unsettle major foreign investors.
The government last week announced the formation of an interagency group to draft standards for the tracking technology, known as radio frequency identification, or RFID. The technology, which allows retailers and suppliers to track shipping containers and pallets as they make their way around the world, eventually could be applied to billions of dollars in goods traded globally.
A team of Chinese bureaucrats and experts will visit the U.S. and Japan next month to meet companies and government agencies promoting competing and potentially incompatible RFID standards, said Edward Zeng, chairman of Sparkice Inc., an electronic-commerce and Internet-cafe chain, and a member of the Chinese task force.
Beijing has been spurred into action by calls from international retailers Wal-Mart Stores Inc. of Bentonville, Ark., and Metro Group AG of Germany to begin applying RFID to goods exported from China, possibly requiring huge outlays by Chinese manufacturers.
Nearly 70% of Wal-Mart's world-wide procurement consists of Chinese-made products, and the retailer wants suppliers to begin using RFID to track shipping containers and pallets beginning in 2005. Metro said last week that its biggest 100 suppliers should start rolling out the technology in November.
The retailers and other proponents of RFID say the technology will spawn a revolution in commerce, helping companies better manage their supply chains, from manufacturers to consumers. RFID involves an array of technologies, including tiny computer chips that are affixed to each product or shipping container and that transmit radio signals, equipment that reads the signals, and servers that store the information for retrieval on Web-based networks. Initially, the technology is expected to be used only to track shipments and inventories, but it eventually could help companies chart purchases by individual consumers, allowing them to amass loads of information on personal preferences.
"Eventually, this will be the DNA of global commerce," Mr. Zeng said. He noted that China's $438 billion in exports last year and its growing role as a world-wide manufacturing hub give the country a say in determining RFID standards.
China's interest in RFID is part of a broader push to determine technology standards and reverse the flow of royalties paid by Chinese companies to license foreign technology. In recent months, the government has announced domestic encryption standards for local wireless computer networks, and it is promoting or developing homegrown technical standards for next-generation DVD players, third-generation mobile-phone networks and household networks that will run entertainment systems and appliances. The campaign has drawn criticism from foreign industry executives who say China's standards won't produce viable, leading-edge technologies and are a form of protectionism.
A bevy of standards needs to be worked out for RFID, from uniform frequencies and compatible signal-reading equipment to formats for data. The U.S. and Japan are allocating different ultrahigh frequency radio bands for RFID, potentially creating a headache for manufacturers that supply both countries.
Some manufacturers also question whether the technology backed by Wal-Mart and other U.S. businesses is inferior to other standards, said Loh Kin Wah, who heads Asian-Pacific operations for chip maker Infineon Technologies AG.
Mr. Zeng, of Sparkice, said China is hoping to avoid friction with foreign companies over RFID. His appointment as the working group's sole private entrepreneur is a sign of the government's intentions, he s
Yes, we want to know whether the chips would invade customers' privacy. Yet nowhere in the article is this issue truly addressed. Privacy is again mentioned further down in the article:
RFID has a dazzling allure in the retail industry, where enthusiasts envision every product having a digital tag instead of a bar code. A can of soda, for instance, could be tracked from manufacture to warehouse to store to a customer's RFID-equipped refrigerator.
That scenario unnerves privacy advocates, who worry about a corporation's being able to track a customer's every move.
Wal-Mart's plan, thus far, is nowhere close to that vision, Dillman said in an interview at the company's northwest Arkansas headquarters.
Does the "thus far" bother you as much as it bothers me? They say that the chips will be attached to boxes/packages/crates, not individual products. Great for people who buy individual products rather than by the box or crate (yeah, some people do buy crates of pop or deodorant or whatever). And even if the chips are only on crates now, how long will it be until chips on the individual products is the rule, not the exception? Because those without chips on individual products would be deemed as "in the technological dark ages?" "Left behind?"
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
Given all of the other information about WalMart's record as an employer, I predict RFID tags will be applied to their employees' badges before they are deployed on a larger scale to individual retail items.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I am a very wary customer when it comes to walmart . They have a pretty long history of forcing their suppliers to their knees to get what they want, and from what I understand, RFID tags are no exception.
Fox IV Technologies, a company run by the father of one of my co-workers, is in the business of manufacturing machines that print RFID tags. I was talking about this with said co-worker a few days ago, and he mentioned a couple interesting things:
*for one, RFID tags, individually, cost a pretty penny - upwards of some 30-40 cents per tag for a moderately sized tag (or, more appropriately put, a tag the size that walmart is looking at)
*Walmart is forcing their suppliers to comply with this -- WITHOUT COMPENSATION. The suppliers get no kickback or relief for using these tags - the cost is on the supplier. Even worse, they can't raise their prices, as that would go against Walmart's founding principle.
Taken together, this means that on individual products (such as razors, the most commonly stolen item from walmart, and a prime candidate for individual-product RFID tagging), the cost of these 30-40 cent tags STILL has to be footed by the supplier. This means that a $4 razor refill - on which the supplier was hardly making any money to begin with - now costs the supplier 10% more. Thus, their profit disappears, and it is no longer profitable to sell razors.
Remember, Walmart's only goal is for Walmart to make money. Not their suppliers, not their competitors, and in the end of it all, not the consumers. Be careful where you shop.
If I had a nickel for every time I had a nickel, I'd be richcursive!
Why is this story fall in the privacy category?Guns can kill people, so guns will kill people, so ban guns.
RFID can infrine privacy, so RFID will infringe privacy, so ban RFID
We need a sober discussion about it.
I suggests that items with RFID tags should be marked as such, the RFID tag should be easily removable, and it should be clear how to do so. A significant fine ($500?) should be imposed for putting a concealed RFID tag (without court warrent). It is, after all, easy enough to find if something has got a tag - they are designed to shout "I'm here". Treat it as a form of phone tapping/recording: legitimate if you know about it, an offence if you do it in secret (except with warrant).
What privacy problems remain?
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
Er, Slashdotters are the paranoid people who sit and look at the sky to see aliens and space elevators. They of course will assume that this tech will be abused and used to track them. Big Brother and all that jazz. The simple fact of the matter is that they're probably right. Slashdotters don't just blindly love tech. Look at the e-voting fiasco. We love tech when it's pushed in the right direction, it's not abusive to people, and especially when it runs linux.
There is more to business than just profit. If you are only after immediate profit, then you do damage to your future business by alienating your customer base. They use you because they have to, not because they want to. The US lost a big part of itself when it went away from customer service towards only low prices and screwing the consumers.
People love to whine about rfid privacy, consider:
l o-TheBlockerTag.pdf
http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/JuelsRivestSzyd
RFID interrogators use a binary tree walking protocol to enumerate tags in the field. Get a tag that responds to every query, and you have effectively jammed RFID interrogation around your person.
This is just the first of many ideas; very simple but very effective. Just as many people are working on privacy solutions as are working on the rest of the devices.
It's a very lucrative market after all (privacy sector) because as as we all know:
1) FUD
2) ???
3) profit!!!
Contrary to popular hysteria, RFID is not your enemy.
Correct me if I am wrong but when I buy a book at a book store they usually have a general RFID tag on them as an anti-shoplifting device... Just as stores like Wal-Mart and Zellers has cheaper anti-shoplifting devices such as those magnetic tags..
Wouldn't it be cheaper to lean away from the magnetic tags and have two purposes for RFID tags.. As a anti-shoplifting device and as well as a item identification media?
I mean yes its easy to find and rip off these tags off of books and items and still walk out but the "average joe" doesn't even know about them.
Because Walmart is taking the food out of the supplier's children's mouths? c'mon.
WalMart is ferreting out corporate fat and consolidating it in the Walton family bank account. They aren't any more malevolent than any other businesspeople - they're just more successful.
The real negative impact on the consumer economy from this kind of business has been happening for decades now, but it's been spread around many companies. (depreciating 'real' wages, rapidly increasing executive compensation, accelerating seperation of wealth)
WalMart has just managed to skim part of all that ridiculous wealth from many suppliers, shared a tiny slice with consumers in the way of cheaper product, and pocketed the rest.
The proof of the problem is simply being personified by Walmart's hegemony. So it's only natural for it to draw the ire of the underclass, whereas we should've been railing against the problem for years.
Nevertheless, this is where revolutions begin.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
So what are you suggesting walmart employees do for their health needs? They already get shit for pay. Should they pray to god? Seriously, I want to know how someone who can barely afford to live is going to buy health insurance.
I've lived in AR and other southern states where they are all over the place...but, I've never had much need to shop there. Certainly not for things like clothes, etc.
On the other hand...I LOVE Sam's Club..the wholesaler store they run. I think everyone needs a gallon of mustard in their fridge...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I must have read 50 comments and not one of them was about RFID tags, which is what the post was about. Moderators should be modding these posts as Off Subject.
My two cents...
I have looked at RFID tag systems and right now they are too expensive for item level tagging. This is what Wal*Mart originally wanted to do. It's alot more efficient than bar code, but way more expensive (right now).
Then they switched to mandating pallet (or box) level tagging which is still helpful, but not very expensive.
I think if more companies use RFID for pallet level tagging the prices will come down and they can then move to item level tagging. I would guess 3-5 years befor item level tagging is affordable.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Ok, let's take just a minute to hold off on our knee-jerk walmart bashing and think about and interesting RFID idea:
When I go to a store, what is the #1 thing I hate? Waiting in line. There is nothing worse than seeing only a few registers open with huge lines. My time is valuable. I would like to just be able to WALK OUT OF THE STORE WITH MY STUFF. Let the RFID detectors track all the merchandise, then all I have to do is show someone my credit card and ID and sign for it all.
This time savings alone would boost the economy and our standard of living -- think about how many wasted hours you've spent in lines, when you could have been spending time with your family or friends, working to get some more dough, etc.
And frankly I don't give a crap about the privacy concerns -- as long as stores still accept cash, it's the consumer's choice as to how much privacy they want. And, of course, no one is forcing anyone to go to stores whose policies they disagree with.
- jonathan.
Right now the smallest -- and I mean THE smallest -- RFID tag I've seen (I work with them on a daily basis... yes, the ePC tags that Wal-Mart has asked for) is 3 inches long and a half-inch wide. I've got another one from a different manufacturer that's 1.5 inches square. We're not talking about things that are hard to find and remove here.
Why are they so huge? Antennas.
Yes, the tags themselves will continue to get smaller and cheaper. But the antennas aren't going to get any smaller; they have to be large, so that the tag can pick up the 925MHz signal from the reader to power itself on and transmit a signal back.
"Oh, but eventually they'll be woven into your clothes, right?" Well, do you know anyone involved in the textile industry? Ask them about how much it would cost to weave an antenna into a polo shirt. Right now the embroidery machines that are used to put the little guy on a horse are so expensive, that if you don't already have a contract to make them, you can't get a loan from the bank or investors to buy them at your factory. (Girlfriend's uncle runs a factory that makes polo shirts, that's how I know.) We're not talking about something cheap or simple here.
Be realistic about the technology here. Because of the need for large antennas, what's realistic with RFID technology is that even at the product level the tags will be large and easily removed from the item by the consumer or at the register. They'll attach it to the box, not the product, where it'll have a better chance of being picked up by the reader.
You can make the tags smaller, but you can't make the antennas smaller without cranking up the readers' power to levels that would nuke your testicles. That isn't going to happen.
Realistically, the Orwellian RFID nightmare is impossible.