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Suggested Reading for IP Lawyers?
Javert42 asks: "As graduation day comes nearer, and after reading two articles in Wired, the idea of graduate work in Computer Science isn't looking so appealing. I've been considering studying IP law for a few months, but realizing that my only experience with the matter is reading stories on Slashdot, I'd like some more input in order to form my own opinions and basic philosophy on the topics of copyrights, patents, and other IP issues, especially as they relate to computing. What reading material can you suggest that presents the key issues objectively (to start off with), and what can you suggest as far as argumentative works go?"
I've been considering studying IP law for a few months, but realizing that my only experience with the matter is reading stories on Slashdot...
You aren't really diversifying your experience then are you?
Karma: Meh (Mostly from meh.)
goatse.cx
The U.S. Constitution. Lawyers and politicians seem to have been forgetting it lately. Course its kind of useless outside of the US and her "territories".
Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
Like The Future of Ideas: The Fate of the Commons in a Connected World and Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace, plus his blog and if you can find it, his grocery list.
...and buy some green, hardcover West Hornbooks, or some softcover In A Nutshell summaries of copyright, patent and trademark law.
Or you could try sites such as The Intellectual Property Page or one of several hundred other sites that a search engine would provide.
but realizing that my only experience with the matter is reading stories on Slashdot, I'd like some more input in order to form my own opinions and basic philosophy
And so you post a question to Ask Slashdot?
RFC: 791 Internet Protocol DARPA Internet Program Protocol Specification
I would recommend picking up a few casebooks written for law students (probably available in your university bookstore, or your university's lawschool bookstore, or in your university's library or law library). These are useful for a several of reasons:
(1) they'll give you a good, thought-provoking overview of the field;
(2) most casebooks do not assume much background legal knowledge (though they'll probably assume *some* background legal knowledge),
(3) the cases in the books are "boiled down" versions that present only the important bits of the cases; and
(4) the casebooks are (relatively) objective.
"The dinosaurs died because they didn't have a space program." - Niven
Literary Law Guide for Authors [/. book review :]
Pixels keep you awake!
It's seem theres an increase in cs grads who see the job market and think crap why did i get into cs the money's not there anymore? What happened to doing a job you love? Is everything just about money? I don't see how you can pick a college career and then at the end of 4 years of hard work want to throw it away and become a lawyer. I guess as you get older people see where their real strengths are.
if thinking about studying law is stop using the term "intellectual property". There is no such thing in the eyes of the law. There is patent law, copyright law and trade secrets. They're handled totally different, and if you use that term in court, you will be told to be specific as they laugh at you.
The second thing you should do is go elsewhere for your information. Slashdot is a cesspool of misinformation and uninformed opinion.
As someone who teaches Cyberlaw and runs a program on law and technology, I'd urge you to consider broadening your horizons a bit, and to focus on practical rather than theoretical discussions. As relevant as IP law is to the technology industries, it is only one small part of the whole picture. Contract law, corporate structure finance (yes, even in this post-bubble era!), privacy law and especially international law are also crucial subjects to learn.
I'd echo the sentiments of those who said to take a look at casebooks and other law school texts in a local library. You can also go to the sources for IP law: the U.S. Copyright Office and Patent and Trademark Office have some good basic info, as does the Federal Trade Commission on privacy rules. This site has a good list of info. on doing e-business throughout the world. Finally, for an introduction to Internet-related business legal issues, you can always find my book in a local library.
Finally, you'll need to decide if you actually want to be a lawyer. Law school is rather expensive these days, even for state schools, and the loan burden for many of our students is severe. Feel free to e-mail me if you'd like to ponder this further. {Professor Jonathan Ezor}
Patent Wrongs, Illana Mercer
Rethinking Patent Law, Gene Callahan
Against Intellectual Property, Stephen Kinsella
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Seriously, go read Groklaw. And maybe call up a local attorney. Certainly somewhere in your circle of friends/family, someone has contact with some kind of attorney. Finagle an informational interview.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
legal goodness makes my list of oxymorons for 2004.
I'm a programmer by trade, and have worked as a consultant for almost 6 years now. Almost 3 years ago, I started attending Law school, on top of my daytime job.
This semester, I'm taking a class on intellectual rights, which was the reason I started anyway. I'm glad I did the whole course, rather than just this part, as IR is just too much embedded in the justice system to single out. It's a lot of effort, but it's worth it.
One important thing I learned: never represent yourself in court. Even lawyers don't. Even if you read these documents, or some casebooks as suggested earlier, please go see a lawyer when you've got a problem.
the pun is mightier than the sword
Learn the law, then form opinions and philosophies.
The world doesn't need anymore crusading lawyers. If you know what the law means, you will be able to suggest intelligent modifications and interpret it correctly.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
SCO/litigous bastards
"why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
Don't go to law school. You've already demonstrated that you aren't willing or able to do any footwork of your own when it comes to research (you only know things you've read on Slashdot, and you posted and Ask Slashdot for more information), which is a strong counterindication to being a successful law student. Save yourself the hassle and cost of applying and the cost of attending for that first year.
See here.
You want to become an IP lawyer.
Would that be IP lawyer, as in those scum-sucking demons from hell that patents ridiculous "it's doing X... on the Internet!" claims, then runs about suing that ass off everyone and their dog who thought about it before you?
Would that be IP lawyer, like those cursed unnameable evil ones who work for SCO, stealing open-source code and claiming it for their own?
Would that be IP lawyer, like the ones who are racing around the world patenting perfectly ordinary plants and animals so that no one else may benefit by them?
And you ask Slashdot for advice?
Damn, I'd hate to be on the receiving end of that question.
(Is there any such thing as a good IP lawyer?)
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Start with this one and if you pull anything like what SCO is doing, you will proabably want to read this one before you head to prison.
...unless you really want to become a lawyer. This means that you really know what lawyers do, like doing it, and like doing it for 60+ hours per week .
;) The problem is that few associates get to work on anything so interesting.
Look up some IP lawyers at the larger firms in your area and give them a call. Ask questions about the quantity and quality of their day-to-day workload. And I'm not talking partners, I'm talking associates--'cause that's what you'll start off as.
IP law is interesting, and I am enjoying learning it, partly because so much of it is wrong
There are other options besides becoming a lawyer once you graduate of course, but they are few and far between. Oh, and don't forget about the crushing debt!
YMMV of course, and IANALY (y = yet), but most associates I know would counsel against becoming a lawyer.
cleetus
Any lawyer stuck on where to investigate can find a wealth of information here. They can Google and Altavista and Metacrawler. The point is that researching IP in hardcopy is a total joke. IP lives at internet speeds now and without 'catching the wave,' so to speak they will always be in the wake of progress.
"Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
You'll need to develop a thick skin - as this thread shows most will hate you. Many will despise you; some will mean it, some follow the mob, some envy your money. It only ever changes when they need you or if like me you help out Free software users/companies. You have to let it bounce off, and if you can't it's not the job for you.
Practical exposure to the law will help: ask law firms if there are any prospects for temporary work, internships, offer to work free for a couple of weeks, whatever - you'll be really really lucky if you succeed. Or try a free legal advice project anything to get a handle on real law. It's enough to convince some people the law is not for them - for others it cements the motivation. By the way I recommend pro bono work for FOSS groups or digital campaign groups; it's a great antidote to regular clients & just feels good.
Once you've done that google & start reading a wide variety of stuff; but dont confine yourself to rant pages like /., Lessig has done some very thoughtful policy essays. But also hang out in the inventors & business Usenet forums and ask them: you need a variety of views and user objectives. Contrary to what /.'ers think its not ALL about megacorps screwing over the little man. As for reading material if you want to get a handle on policy you'll find that you wont understand the best texts until you have a good grounding in IP law. At the same time the 101 course materials tend to be a bit dry so I dont have any good suggestions - but the USPTO site is quite interesting.
The professor raises the other important point which is finance. Its an expensive long process to undertake and the competition is ferocious. Lots of people burn out and some get there only to wish they hadn't. Understand that you might also find yourself practising in an area you hadn't intended: you might want to be an IP lawyer but you might wind up doing crime or corporate finance crap because that's all you could get; it's happened to a few friends of mine. yech.
Good luck!
-he who laughs last, is a bit slow.
journal
If you want to be a patent attorney, you should check whether your undergraduate degree meets the requirements. Mine didn't: for CS only, your degree must be from a school with a specific accreditation, which my highly prestigious/snobbish Ivy League school didn't have. I suspect this is because they think somebody out there is giving "computer science" degrees for how-to-use-Microsoft-Word courses.
Anyway, as a result, I'm now a corporate lawyer instead. You don't need to be a patent attorney to do litigation, or trademarks and copyrights and other soft stuff, but, if you're a techie on the inside, you want it.
If your school's not properly blessed, see if you can cram in some extra chemistry or physics to meet the hour minimums.
I Can't Believe It's A Law Firm, LLP does not necessarily endorse the contents of this message.
http://www.wikipedia.org
Has great reading about software patents trademarks technology and much much more.
Proof that trolls never check their facts. It's been down for a while now, sorry.
My objective in writing Links to Tens of Thousands of Legal Music Downloads was to give the legions of peer-to-peer music downloaders a basic lesson in history, copyright law and political activism, in hopes that they might use their considerable numbers to bring about copyright reform.
I give all the links that the article title promises in order to get p2p users to come read it, and link to it from their own websites. But my real objective is to give them an education while I have their attention.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
I've never met a lawyer who recommends becoming one.
If you've already decided to go to law school, there is no need to learn about the law before you attend. You'll have plenty of opportunity to learn the law after you start law school.
From the Lessig blog December 19:
Posner is a friend. I was his clerk. But the best thing about being his clerk is that he does his own writing, which means the clerk's job is just to disagree. But in the area of copyright and patent, I've found less and less to disagree with. Indeed, if you want a brilliant and balanced analysis of a wide range of IP issues, from the perspective of economics, see his (and Professor Landes') latest book, The Economic Structure of Intellectual Property Law.
I haven't read it yet, but am eagerly awaiting its arrival from interlibrary loan.
The fact that so many thoughtful people like you are interested in the technical details of IP law is a really Good Thing (R). The more people who understand how things really work, the more there will be who can intelligently push for change. Start with the primary sources: the U.S. Constitution, the Copyright and Patent statutes -- all available either free at a good University library or dirt cheap from the U.S. Government Printing Office. I'd suggest at least skimming through the legislative history contained in the Committee Reports for the last few revisions of the law. These contain good summaries of both statute and case law up to their publication that are sometimes more illuminating that the treatments you'll find in other books. Oh, yeah, and as a former trial lawyer myself (now happily up to my ears in system administration work) I'd suggest looking into political rather than legal activism as a route to "do something" if you decide you want to get involved. IP law is one of those areas where I think political action is most appropriate, particularly where it is exerted in earnest for the public good. The law courts are usually an adequate vehicle for resolving individual disputes, but often fail miserably as a forum for creating fair and balanced public policy.
I have an interest in the law, but no desire to be a lawyer. I know many lawyers, and I hire them on occasion. Other than trial lawyers, who are like fighter pilots, lawyers tend to either be boring or bored with their work.
You don't need to know US law, your patent will be issued anyway. :-P
The only thing you need is a good mouth: according to my colleagues in the US, you can work it all out during an interview.