Slashdot Mirror


Microsoft Holds Off on Eolas Patent Changes

Walkiry writes "As reported by Reuters, Microsoft believes the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office might come to the rescue and cancel the patent that was going to force them into changing the behaviour of Internet Explorer. Maybe the Patent Office is finally getting a clue? Or is it Microsoft's long arm? Time will tell..."

12 of 239 comments (clear)

  1. Forget it's Microsoft for a second.... by barcodez · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is an import win for common sense and the software industry as a whole.

    Let's hope this can become a reference case for defeating further rediculous patents.

    --

    ----
    1. Re:Forget it's Microsoft for a second.... by Zeinfeld · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Yes it is. Hopefully in the future, we can do more of these as MS is suppose to be taking similar actions against Linux down the road.

      Since when has Microsoft attempted to enforce a patent in order to shut down Linux?

      Microsoft could probably do this if they wanted to. But there are many reasons why they are unlikely to do so. First there is IBM, Linux almost certainly infringes some Microsoft patent, Windows almost certainly infringes some IBM patent. It is a zero sum game.

      The other reason is anti-trust. If Microsoft tried that type of thing they would probably be ordered to license.

      Finaly the whole Microsoft ethos is built on competition. They don't want to kill competition entirely, they want to beat it up a bit, ok a lot. But if they kill them they have to find some new opponent. Netscape really were somewhat stupid here, when Windows 95 launched Bill Gates gave a widely reported speech that said 'OK thats Apple done for, do't get complacent, there are lots of companies out there to replace us'. Then that twit Marc Andressen says 'we are going to leave Windows as no more than a baddly debugged set of device drivers'. Whammo! Bill finds his new opponent.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
  2. Regardless of Whether You Hate Microsoft... by tealover · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the cancellation of this patent would be a good thing. We can't have these tiny little extornist companies putting a stranglehold on technology and commerce.

    Whatever Microsoft is guilty of, I don't recall it using patent violations as a tactic. They have created a lot of wealth for a lot of people. I can't say the same for the patent holders in this case.

    --
    -- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
    1. Re:Regardless of Whether You Hate Microsoft... by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thing is---he's been burned by MS.

      I'd say the same thing.

      And you know what? If it were me, I'd beat the hell out of MS with my patent club, and then license my patent to anyone else, for free, as long as it isn't MS.

      Remember, there is nothing to stop your from arbitrarily licensing your patents.

      You could refuse to license someone because their dog smelled bad.

      This guy has a bone to pick with MS. He's got his 1/2 billion dollar victory. He's got the opportunity to become a big player in the browser market---

      He could license his patent to everyone else, for free, because everyone else accounts for what, 5% of the market?

      The Internet Browser market is dominated by MS. He doesn't need to sue the Mozilla Foundation, Opera, Netscape, etc. . . It doesn't do him any good, and any money to be made along those lines would pale in comparison to the $500 mil he got from MS.

      He's said as much, and that he is more than willing to grant said licenses.

      If it were me (and this guy sounds like a good guy, from all the interviews I've read, and from the University of California endorsement), I'd be doing EXACTLY what he is doing.

      I wouldn't cry foul until he refuses a free license to the Mozilla foundation, etc. . . .

      --
      WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
  3. Patents the problem by Mork29 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lets face it, you want to think of Microsoft as the bad buy in every lawsuit. Hell, 1/2 of the /.ers around here blame Microsoft for the SCO vs. IBM thing. This really isn't the case with alot of these patent laws. Old patent laws don't apply well to new technology that develops VERY quickly. True progress is going to require a legal system that understand the technology that it governs over.

    1. Re:Patents the problem by Titusdot+Groan · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Well if the patent office followed their own rules about not being "obvious to an ordinary practioner of the art" and about "being new and original" I'm not sure there WOULD be a problem with patents.

      The number of patents that are being granted that are obvious solutions to a problem (eg. 1 click patent) or not original (eg. this one) is staggering.

  4. Decisions by Mr_Silver · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Whilst I agree that the patent is absurd and should never happen - it is worth noting that if Eolas go only after Microsoft, then this could get the other non-IE browsers a significant leg up in market share.

    Right now the internet standard have been set. It doesn't matter what new proposals come out of the W3C or how well other browsers will perfect their implementations, the internet will always be suspended at the greats common denominator (which is, in this case, the functionality of IE 6). No-one in their right mind is going to abandon support for the browser that 90% of potential customers use.

    By levelling the playing field a bit more, this would mean that webmasters and designers would not be afraid to move on and leave IE behind. By doing so, Microsoft would be forced to keep up to maintain market share.

    However, there is one big caveat - and that is the Eolas doesn't use their win against Microsoft to go after everyone else. This is a pretty big if and definely one that cannot be easily discounted.

    If Eolas do decide to follow suit with other browser manufacturers then any "leg up" that has been gained will be lost, IE will still be dominant and the WWW standards will stop. However if Eolas doesn't go after anyone else then this is quite some benifit.

    Unfortunately, banking on Eolas winning and not sueing anyone else is just too much of a risk. Which means that, in this case, the best course of action to is come to Microsofts defence, get it overturned and accept that for WWW standard to move on (which will necessitate the removal of IE from the top spot), it must happen in a different way.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
    1. Re:Decisions by andih8u · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whilst I agree that the patent is absurd and should never happen - it is worth noting that if Eolas go only after Microsoft, then this could get the other non-IE browsers a significant leg up in market share.

      And when they decide to go after Mozilla or Opera because they didn't get enough money from suing Microsoft...by then those other browsers will have a bigger market share, according to your bizarre world anyway. What's bad for one company is bad for all of them.

      --


      slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
    2. Re:Decisions by sepluv · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm sorry but this is a ludicrous point of view to hold. Are you saying that Eolas be allowed to use the law in a clearly immoral (and illegal) way?

      We should all be fighting attempts to patent basic ideas like those of the WWW and calling for reform of the patent system to aviod these sorts of patents (as opposed to real physical inventions that are clearly original and which it has taken the inventor time to create).

      it is worth noting that if Eolas go only after Microsoft

      Why would they only go after M$? Even if they do don't you think that this is extremely unfair on M$. M$ have as many rights as anyone else. For anti-M$ fanatics out there lets put this another way: by arguing this is OK, you are going as low as M$ by saying that certain companies (M$) should be blocked out of the market by anti-competitive reasons (something that M$ has done). If others do this to M$ they will feel it is OK to do, and you will become just as bad as them.

      then this could get the other non-IE browsers a significant leg up in market share

      As someone who never uses MSIE, I fail to see what the point in increasing the share of real (non-MSIE) WWW browsers is. I do not use them but why should I support forcing other people to do the same as me (in this case using immoral anti-competitive means). OK, yes people should be made aware of alternatives, but so what if people want to stick with the default that comes with MSW? People should have choice.

      I use Mozilla-based browsers and the aim of the Mozilla Project (and I'd imagine the other free-software browsers) is to make the best (most standards-compliant user-friendly &c) WWW browser -- not to get the biggest market share. If Mozilla aimed to do that they would just be making themselves like MSIE. Why should the Mozilla community (developers, users) care if MSIE has more share.

      By levelling the playing field a bit more, this would mean that webmasters and designers would not be afraid to move on and leave IE behind.
      This has already happened for any webmasters that care about their users. For instance, nearly all sites are compatible with Gecko because webmasters just cannot ignore 5%-35% of their users (depending on which independent survey you believe) -- I think it is probably nearer 5%-10%.

      If they go so low as to sue M$ over this totally spurious patent, why would they not sue everyone else they can think of to maximise their profits from their patent (using lawsuits)?

      In this case, the best course of action to is come to Microsofts defence

      In all cases, the best course of action to follow who you think is in the right.

      --
      Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
      [This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
  5. .....but whose Intellectual Property IS it? by mhazen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having worked with intellectual property matters in the technology arena (both patent and trademark), the staggering antiquity of our concepts in protecting the fruits of one's intellectual labors is, well, staggering.

    Patents are broken down into small "claims", and a patent can easily have hundreds of these, if not thousands. Even the most ridiculously simple idea gets divided into minute, easily digestible sections. One such section I remember was included to explain the concept of a ZIP code, and how the company filing the patent was NOT the arbiter or owner of that concept, but was using it as a reference within their work, and that this was not a determining factor in their technology (they could have easily used another large-scale locational identifier, such as area code). Hence, their patent could be defensible when someone claimed in court that it was based on technology they had no claaim to ownership of.

    But worse, the point of the average patent is not to delineate what it is, but what it's not. If your patent includes as part of its concepts anything which you did not personally conceive of, and which you have not attributed to their original creators, That claim becomes indefensible. Toss out one claim, and the whole patent is invalid. It's a house of cards, and that's how patent attorneys litigate patent cases.

    When push comes to shove, Amazon knew exactly what they were doing (certainly, their lawyers did) when they patented "one click", and they did it because a patent is precisely designed to allow the applicant to carve out as massive of a piece of intellectual pie as the patent office deems acceptable. Eolas is doing the same, in a different light, it would appear.

    If you can state a case, without prior art being an issue, for patenting Earth, feel free. The rest of us will either have to move, or beat you up you and steal your planet. :)

    In cases like this, where someone else comes up with a basic idea, manages to patent it, then extends their idea to encompass the known universe, perhaps the whole issue of reexamining the validity of the original patent should be considered. It would certainly cut back on the "I invented soil, it's mentioned in my patent" suits.

    --
    Rock is dead. Long live scissors and paper!
  6. Two faced by Moderation+abuser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's be honest here. Throwing out these patents sets the precedent that big boys can bully the patent office into throwing out the patents of the small guys. You don't really beleive that it's going to apply to anyone who doesn't have billions of dollars in the bank, do you?

    --
    Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
  7. Thanks to Tim Berners-Lee by hconnellan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would hope to think that Tim Berners-Lee was more significant than Microsoft in fighting this.

    After all, if he said it was prior art, then it was prior art.