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Second Hypersonic X43 Scramjet Ready for Testing

Dan writes "I am sure most of you remember how NASA was forced destroy their first hypersonic X43 seconds in it's maiden flight, which was a big setback for the american hypersonic scramjet program. Well NASA just finished one of the final tests and is preparing to launch it as early as February 21! I wish them the best."

28 of 434 comments (clear)

  1. Scramjet and space flight by erick99 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I have read many times, in many magazines, that scramjet technology is integral to getting something into space without the traditional rocket engine technology. This is a nice development in that direction. I hope the funding for this stays in place. Funny how some truly exciting developments in air/space don't get much mainstream exposure such as CNN, MSNBC, etc.

    Happy Trails,

    Erick

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
  2. Excellent by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is great technology, but remember, it's not for *us*, it's for the military. Faster jets, bigger killing radius, when will this benefit freedom and peace?

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
    1. Re:Excellent by ImTwoSlick · · Score: 5, Insightful
      This is great technology, but remember, it's not for *us*, it's for the military. Faster jets, bigger killing radius, when will this benefit freedom and peace?

      Oh.... For a second I thought you were talking about airplanes, ships, computers, combustion engines, or encryption. You know, all those things benefiting you that were developed for the evil military.

      Don't forget. That freedom you enjoy wasn't given to you for nothing. Military people are the ones who earned it for you. That's why this new technology IS for us, freedom, and peace.

    2. Re:Excellent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There is always a need for a military. No matter how much you may want world peace, it's not going to happen. We've been trying to achieve world peace for years and years, yet we still have wars. Look at the aftermath of WW1. People were convinced that that was the last war *ever*. Armys began standing down, and as a result, Germany caught everyone else with their pants down. If America were to substantially reduce spending on the military and reduce the size of the military, then it would only leave America vulnerable to attack. Not I'm sure that the military wastes a lot of money, but so does any large organization. Just be glad that someone out there is getting paid to fight for your right to criticize them.

    3. Re:Excellent by Ween · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wasn't the Internet developed for military use with funding from DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency).. hmm yes, I believe it was.

      --


      Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt --Abraham Lincoln
    4. Re:Excellent by magores · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Say what you like he was a sick and twisted mass murder.

      Sorry to point out your error in "tense", but Bush it STILL a sick and twisted mass murder(er).

    5. Re:Excellent by CrowScape · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that there are some neat graphs out there showing a marked decrease in the number of people killed per year because of war. I know the DoD has stats on American soldiers lost that you can find somewhere on its website. It's really interesting, actually. The graph was growing VERY quickly up until 1945, at which point "The Bomb," one of the most expensive projects ever undertaken by the US and purely military, was deployed. Afterwards, fatalities absolutely plumetted as wars were constrained for fear of escalation to nuclear weaponry. The military factor is not necessarily a bad thing. The Spartans knew that if you had a strong enough military no one would want to pick a fight with you (of course, they had their problems, such as oppressing the Helots).

      --
      common sense: noun
      What those who are ignorant of the subject matter think; usually wrong.
    6. Re:Excellent by be-fan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And therein lies the fundemental weakness of democracy. You can't get people to do whats good for them. The fact that military spending is a big boon for technology is for the precise reason that peoples' irrational fears make it easy to control them. By controlling them, you take the "mob rule" factor out of the equation, and can spend money how you want. Military spending, while a very inefficient way to invest in the future, is one of the few ways to do that within the confines of a democratic framework.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    7. Re:Excellent by ImTwoSlick · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Ahem... I think you meant enjoyed. Did you ever hear of the PATRIOT act? The US is losing the "war on terrorism" in 2 ways... you got beaten up on September 11th, and now Ashcroft and company fuck you over some more...

      You know. I'd wager that about 98% of posters that complain about the Patriot Act never bothered to read it themselves. Do yourself a favor, and read it before ranting. You might even learn something.

    8. Re:Excellent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Spoken like someone who probably believes the Catholic Church was teaching that the Earth was flat during the time of Columbus (or at any time, for that matter).

      The biggest cause of social and mental retardation are a) not learning from history (or worse, learning incorrectly) and b) inbreeding. The same people who complain about religion's negative influence on science tend to be guilty of a).

    9. Re:Excellent by bucky0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Horseshit. Religion in general is the biggest cause of social and mental retardation in history, and more wars and death and killing have been it's result, directly contradicting it's stated goals.
      I'll give you that Religion has been bastardized by many people to serve their own purposes, but:
      1)It doesn't make 'religion in general' a bad thing. Having a few, or even a majority of people that claim to adhere to a creed screwing up doesn't automagically make the creed stupid.(not believing in religion is, of course something that's too much for a ./ converstation...I'm just stating that people's actions don't invalidate an idea)

      2)It's hardly fair to say that religion has been the largest cause of death and misery across the world for all time. The estimated 72 million executed under Mao Ze Dong's rule, or the > 10 million under Stalin's rule far eclipses the misled people's mistakes during the crusades, etc...(not that it marginalises the stupidity of those actions)

      Humans will not be free until they have stopped being afraid of death and the scare tactics used to control the weak religious minded, such as belief in heaven, hell, judgement day, etc. nothing good will happen. All are used as tools by the Leaders and Pontiffs to keep the masses in line.

      Until the substitution of reason and thought for blind faith happens nothing will ever change.


      There are plenty of normal people who believe in a religion of some form or another who aren't sheep. I happen to follow Christianity, but it doesn't mean when the Pope decrees that condoms are bad I follow along with it. Additionally, what won't change? Regardless of whether there is religion or not, people are still going to starve and be killed. Same goes for whether or not capitalism/communism/dictatorships/democracies/etc ... exists, there are going to be less fortunate people in this world, blaming a belief in a higher power is a bit odd.

      Which leads us to...
      But honor the 2 biggest killers of mankind - the military class and religion as advancers of society? Fuck, no. They are the biggest millstones around the human condition.

      While they may or may not have been the _greatest_ advancers of society, a few technological innovations have sprung out of millitarism, and there are people who have done good things in the name of religion. I would argue that greed is the single largest stumbling point for the human race. It's people's inherant greed which causes them to use anything within their grasp to crush the people around them.

      Maybe it's just me though...

      --

      -Bucky
    10. Re:Excellent by LearnToSpell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Without the need for national protection, the military's budget wouldn't exist.

      Do you really believe that? Or would you care to insert perceived just before need, maybe?

  3. Impressive technically but ... by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know for you, but I find manned high speed flights (X1, X15) much more exciting to witness from a human perspective than those remote-controlled ones. I realize the objective is to test an engine and that there's no need to put a human being in danger to achieve that anymore, but it doesn't produce heroic stories and certainly doesn't make children dream like it used to.

    I find the old crappy 1969 b/w pictures of the first man on the moon much more appealing than the Spirit panoramas, yet the probe went much further than Armstrong, and probably did a lot more science. But still, it's not the same thing, and NASA should send actually people up-diddly-up instead of drones, just because (1) there would be volunteers and (2) they would strike the public's imagination and generate sympathy for that kind of research, which in turn would turn into funding...

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:Impressive technically but ... by ratl3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...until something goes wrong and we have body parts all over the countryside, coverage of the event by the press, and comments by pundits that say the accident coud have been easily avoided with a drone.

    2. Re:Impressive technically but ... by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed. A partial solution to that problem is to stop sending school teachers in this sort of high-risk mission. They used to send seasoned high-ranking military officers who volunteered to do that sort of thing before, When one crashed, sure it was a human disaster, but at the same time people understood the guy made the choice of living dangerously as a career.

      Since NASA invented the astronauts, as a group of flyers somewhat distinct from USAF personel, and especially since they started sending civilians up, each time they have a catastrophe, the press and public opinion turns against them 10 times more.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    3. Re:Impressive technically but ... by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      NASA should send actually people up-diddly-up instead of drones, just because (1) there would be volunteers and (2) they would strike the public's imagination and generate sympathy for that kind of research, which in turn would turn into funding...
      ...until someone inevitably gets blown to smithereens, and then millions of people for whom life itself is too much of a challenge will post on popular internet technology sites about how dangerous it is, how unnecessary the risk, and how that money would be better spent on feeding the hungry here on Planet Earth.

      --
      -Styopa
    4. Re:Impressive technically but ... by Honor · · Score: 4, Insightful
      While your points are very true, there is a flaw in your outlook on this. The point of remote testing the scramjet is to ensure it is safe for humans to take it up and out - would you really risk someone's life just to "strike the public's imagination and generate sympathy"?

      I can see where a human flight would create these things. But i personally consider it worth even a single person's life to remote test these things for safety. Once they are tested by remote, then humans can fly them too! and no one will die.

      The same results (getting public attention and getting money) would be achieved by a successful man(or woman)-powered flight. While a death on a maiden flight often provokes sympathy, it is short lived. A successful flight, one achieved after the testing, createds longer lasting funding and interest. For instance, you recall the "old crappy 1969 b/w pictures of the first man on the moon". when asked about spaceflight this is what most people will recall - not the challenger blowing up. the man on the moon is our inspiration.

      Therefore, to get to the point, if we can use a scramjet to do something awe-inspiring, like going higher cheaper than ever before and perhaps leading the way to cheap earth-to-space travel. sometimes safe isn't always exciting at first, but the end results are always the most spectacular.

    5. Re:Impressive technically but ... by Bob+Vila's+Hammer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is quite an interesting social characteristic that we have the clarity now more than ever of seeing. I find that our culture is more than willing to throw lives at a problem - whether it be the war on terrorism, drugs, or even war - but not able to comprehend the lose of a few truly brave souls who died for just as worthy a cause.

      Perhaps when enough people have died (sadly), whatever that number is, they will realize the importance.
      Then, maybe then, we'll be able to declare a war on space... :-(

      --


      --"The perfect example of the man of action is the suicide." - William Carlos Williams
  4. Scramjets won't get you to space. by AJWM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For the several earlier posters who seem to think that this is the Holy Grail of Earth-to-orbit transportation -- well, maybe they're right in that it's about equally unattainable. Rockets work a hell of a lot better - as has been demonstrated by almost 47 years of orbital flight.

    Any airbreathing technology suffers a couple of fundamental flaws when it comes to suborbital, let alone orbital, transport. Most obvious, the air is mighty thin up there -- so you've got to stay where the air is thicker to support combustion. (Which basically means you can't make orbit with out at least some kind of apogee kick rocket).

    Secondly, pushing through all that air creates drag. Now, you either aggravate the problem by slowing the relative airspeed enough to support combustion -- meaning increasing the drag on that air (supersonic combustion alleviates this somewhat), or you don't slow it down (relatively, actually you're speeding the air up), have a harder time maintaining combustion, and more significantly, have a much lower momentum delta in the exhaust -- meaning less push to the vehicle.

    Scramjets have some limited use for high speed short range flight but rockets are far more efficient and the only practical way to get to orbit.

    (And while I may not be a rocket scientist, I've had long talks about just this with some very expert rocket scientists, such as Max Hunter.)

    --
    -- Alastair
    1. Re:Scramjets won't get you to space. by m00nun1t · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Other things scientists said were unattainable/impossible:

      - Proving the earth wasn't the centre of the universe
      - Moving faster than a horse
      - Flying
      - Man landing on the moon
      - Most likely, rub sticks together to start fire

      If people listened to every expert who said something is impossible we'd still be in caves.

  5. maybe one day by plnrtrvlr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    this will be THE means to get to a station in Earth orbit, and from there, nuclear rockets out into the farther reaches of the solar system. I'd love to see colonies on Mars as much as the next geek, but until we get it through our heads that we need to have stepping stones along the way, we aren't going to be successful. It is simply too damn expensive to develop an entirely new system for every "space objective". We need a new way into Earth orbit... and a space station whose primary objective is to be a way station where deep space nuclear propulsion systems can launch for the rest of the solar system without contaminating the environment here on earth. Maybe someday materials science will make possible the space elevator (and it may be closer than I think, but until they're spinning line, I'm not counting on it....) but until then, we need a different solution beyond out brute force approach. This could be the technology that opens up just these sorts of possibilities.

  6. Is it worth it? by El+Volio · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Scramjets combust the air at supersonic velocities rather than diffusing it prior to combustion the way most other engines in supersonic vehicles do. There's a lot of promise here. But in a society that can't make the Concorde profitable, will it be worth it in the end? I'd love to be able to fly to the other side of the world in something less than 24 hours. The economics of the situation seem to be against us, though.

    --

    "You can never have too many elephants on your team."

    1. Re:Is it worth it? by interiot · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It's hard to talk economics regarding space at the moment. With the Concode, there were many existing competing alternatives, and air travel is much closer to a commidty than space travel is.

      Wheras with space vehicles... if someone wants to get something into space or do something in space, they have anywhere from zero to two options. Also, we don't yet know how economical space travel will eventually become because we haven't had as much time to develop it. And in the meantime, we have mainly government funding, meaning economics don't matter as much. When we get to the point where many different companies have been producing space craft for 40 years, then simple economics will definitely be the main criteria in weeding out new ideas.

  7. Less than half by fredmosby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The liquid fueled rockets that nasa uses today use liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen in the reaction:

    2 H2 + O2 -> 2 H2O

    Which means that by mass modern rockets use about 8 times as much oxygen as they use hydrogen.

  8. The engine's only the first problem... by Timbotronic · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Arguably the bigger issue with getting a scramjet powered vehicle working is coming up with materials that aren't ripped apart by drag at that speed.

    At cruise in the Concorde, you could apparently feel heat from the windows due to the air friction. The SR-71's fuselage stretched over a foot at high speed. So if you're going faster again, you're going to need some pretty impressive materials to keep the fuselage together. I'm guessing metal's probably not up to it. Maybe some sort of woven carbon fibre like on the stealth bomber?

    --

    One of these days I'm moving to Theory - everything works there

  9. Re:hypersonic is above mach5 by fredmosby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The XB-70 Valkyrie flew at mach 3.1. But it's thermal protection consisted of stainless steel and thin white paint. The only figures I can find on the internet say the SR-71 toped out at mach 3.2. It seems odd that the SR-71 required so much more thermal protection when it's top speed was less than 100 mph faster.

  10. Re:Uh this would still be a 3 stage launch though by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Uh... so what's the B-52 used for?

    It's used to dangle the expensive Pegasus conventional rocket that the X-43 uses for its first stage.

  11. Re:The lure of the airbreather by matoh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder: when did "literally" start gliding from "is exactly" to "is very much like" in some people's mind?