Slashdot Mirror
Leaked X-Box 2 Specs Include PPC CPU
Jutebox150 writes "According to the MercuryNews.com, the specifications for Microsoft's successor to the Xbox were revealed. The specs for the next Xbox, at least according to this report, are as follows: Three IBM-designed 64-bit microprocessors, the same chips now used in Apple Computer's high-end G5 PowerMac. This will give the new Xbox 'more computing power than most personal computers.' A graphics chip designed by ATI Technologies that will clock in with speeds faster than the upcoming R400. But what I found most surprising is there are no talks about an internal hard drive, rather suggesting that the next Xbox will instead rely on flash memory, and, depending on hardware cost, backwards compatibility could be out of the question."
I'm thrilled over the potential processing power of the new Xbox. I love my Xbox and more Xbox goodness is headed our way.
I have mixed feelings about backwards compatibility. While being able to play current games on the next Xbox would be nice; too often, hardware/software is seriously crippled because of backwards compatibility. I would dare say that a lot of the long overdue innovation in Microsoft's Windows line was due to being handcuffed with compatibility issues. It may be that someone or Microsoft will release an emulator for the old games as well after the next Xbox is released. That is a possibility.
I totally don't understand not putting a hard drive in the system. That is a monster step backwards. What are they thinking? I enjoy being able to download and play new levels for current games, that would probably not be possible without a hard drive.
The one thing I'm most concerned about and I don't hear anything about yet, is, are they going to allow a keyboard and a mouse on the next Xbox? That needs to get done. Sony allows it on the PS2. The Xbox is never going to be strong in the MMO arena without allowing a keyboard and a mouse. First-person-shooters would be much more enjoyable with a keyboard and a mouse too.
Does this mean I'll have to buy a new modchip?
Why dosen't Microsoft give it up and admit to all the Xbox players that they're gaming on a PC? Or in the case of the Xbox2, a Mac. :)
Something tells me that "640K of memory should be enough for anybody" is not going to cut it...
Virginia Tech can make the next supercomputer using a cluster of XBox2s. And as soon as they did, employees of Microsoft would finally remove the flesh-like coverings and reveal their true cyborg selfs as they began the final assimilation effort.
If they can put enough flash memory on that, then why can't it replace a hard drive? Or external hard drive could be used (USB 2.0), lowering the cost but still providing an option for playing old games and using more features(downloading stuff).
we can expect a Windows XP version for PPC?
I am dying to switch from MacOS X to Windows XP, but it is the i386 price barrier I can't overcome.
The hard drive was central to many of the Xbox's coolest and most unique features. Content downloads, soundtracks, large levels cached to HD to cut load times, large save files for games such as KotOR, etc.... Without the hard drive and Live, the Xbox would have been just another game console.
This is one case where Microsoft did a good job with v1 of the product. I'd hate to see a backward move like this for v2.
which is the better financial model?
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
The gem from the article:
The details suggest Microsoft is far more concerned about keeping the cost of its Xbox Next console low than it is with including dazzling technological features or driving its rivals out of the business, according to a variety of industry sources.
The Xbox outperforms the PS2 on graphics every day. Yet, I prefer the PS2 (mostly because once you are done playing HALO, whats next?!)
So performance is not enough. Nintendo's strategy was to underprice the behemoths, and they are still hanging on.
So if MSFT can sell a console cheaper than the PS3, AND!! get a bunch of games developed,
they will continue on into the future as a major player in the home console market.
(just my 2 cents)
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
The PPC chips don't have the heat problems of Intel's or AMD's product. So you can use smaller and more importantly more silent fans and cooling.
The only drawback is that they trade power/heat benefits for reduced performance - if main issue with PPC's. This makes me wonder why they don't use mobile processors from scratch.
Over 90 years and counting !
The shocking thing is it will probably run linux and some variant of *BSD, but not windoze.
to save on cost MS may not make the Xbox2 backwards compatible.. They could save a fortune if it didnt play games either!
serenity now!
I wonder if M$ will port an embedded Virtual PC to the new system to ensure backwards compatibilty. Three "G5's" should be able to achieve similar if not better performance than the current xbox 800 mHz? x86.
Rumor has it Virtual PC 7 might have Direct 3D capabilities with Quake3 being playable on the 2Ghz G5 via the emulator.
Remember, MS has said they can't make XBox 1 profitable. You can bet they are going to try to drive down their hardware costs with XB2 so that they can actually make some money. The harddrive is a big expense that could be dispensed with without too much pain.
Can somebody say Gamecube?
I've heard the reasons for not including the hard drive (I'm in the games industry), and they make sense.
1) People don't care. Believe it or not, it's not actually a big deal to MOST people. Yes, there are lots of people that do want it, but they're a small percentage of the population. It doesn't matter what they save their games on as long as it's fast.
2) With the PPC, backwards compatibility is already broken. Not to mention backwards compatibility is a pain in the ass for developers as well. They don't care about it, either. It's just not worth the money in the end to make a system that's backwards compatible unless it's easy. The PS1 is a single chip in the PS2. The Game Boy is pretty primitive, and is also easy to include in a GBA. For the Xbox 2 to be backwards compatible, it would either a) have to be the same architecture again or b) have an Intel 733 in there again that somehow gets used with XBox 1 games. Interestingly, the majority of the population isn't interested in backwards compatibility as a MAJOR feature anyway. It's just another bullet point to them.
3) Hard drives are expensive. The interesting thing about hard drives is that they never get cheaper, just bigger. Microsoft gets murdered with every hard drive they put in the Xbox.
4) They want this to be part of their digital hub thing. Since the Xbox 2 will likely have a network connection, if you want to store things more permanently, I heard mumblings about being able to do it on your PC.
5) The hard drive does a couple other things: generate heat and take up space. Getting the size down is something that they have to do if they want to make it in the all-important Japanese market.
6) Lastly, they don't want Linux running on Xboxes. If you want a PC, they want you to go out and buy a PC with Windows on it. The margins are better there.
I think this new Xbox sounds exciting. I'm not a big fan of the current model, but the new one will be a huge boon to developers and gamers alike. With 3 general purpose CPUs and a unified memory system, you can do things like generate a single tree and have each processor modify the tree in memory slightly before sending it to the GPU. Voila! Instant forest with quickly generated unique trees.
I just hope they make a controller that a kid can hold this time. And a box with a flat top, so you can stack other units (VCR's, PS2's, etc), unlike that stupid dome they have at the moment.
The xbox was alright, but it really suffered from stupid visual and useability design decisions...
This does not ring in as being bullshit to anyone?
I would have blinked if they said it has ONE CPU similar to the one in the G5, but three?
Come on.
... HOWEVER, I see a combination of advantage and disadvantage. On the one hand this will require starting from scratch; I'm sure GNU/Linux can be customized to run with flash memory, or from optical media like Knoppix, but it will take time. On the other hand, Microsoft's security attention will be drawn away from the legacy model. This means that the old XBox is up for grabs, and we can expect minimal future security blockades. Old XBoxen will be VERY big sellers among Linux enthusiasts, possibly selling secondhand for as much as they sold as new, if not more.
But regarding backaward compatibility, I wouldn't worry about it. Remember that Microsoft bought Connectix, the maker of Virtual PC, and has been looking into technologies for running virtual machines. This may be related to those efforts, and running i386 game code on a PowerPC 970 might be doable with the right emulation built into the OS.
What really surprises me is that Windows code is well-organized enough that Microsoft thinks they can port it to another platform at all.
MMORPG without a keyboard is a dreadful experience. A keyboard for X-Box2 (Y-Box?) could bring the MMORPG experience into the living room.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Does this mean that Macophiles can no longer bemoan the vileness of "Wintel" if M$ is using the same processor in one of their flagship products that Apple does.
Will this also make it easier to port XBox titles to the Mac? Will this make the Mac a more viable gaming platform?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Ugliest. Mac. Evar !
I believe that they want to remove HDs from peoples homes, and have everyone store their data on MS servers.
You'll pay a monthly fee to use your account and get terminal access to the approved software suite and library of games. Migrating to another platform will become well-nigh impossible.
And if you're a small-time developer? There's always telemarketing....
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
That's a stab in the back as far as I'm concerned. Yes, I have an X-box, and I can play the Xbox games on it.
But, as a part-time salesdroid, one of the larger selling points of the PS2, at least as far as "Parents buying for Kids" is concerned, is that they can just plug in the PS2 where the PS1 is, the OLD games still play on it, and the new games will as well.
To me, that was one of the wisest decisions of Sony, as well as keeping the -same- form factor of their interconnects. Nintendo was close, but had the N64 been able to play the NES/SNES games out of the box? There would have been no contest in that segment of the console wars.
No HD? Fine, I can deal with that. I'll get a mem card. I have one for my OTHER consoles, I can do that with the Xbox2. But -please- don't make me have to purchase an additional kit just to play DVD's... my PS2 doesn't need it, why should the Xbox?
Also, ditch the "Xbox Only" games. FINE, so your competitors can get a shot at them. If your hardware is -superior- are you really worried? These days, since I now own pretty much all of the 'current' consoles, if I'm getting a game, I go for the one that looks, and 'feels' the best. I'm not a platform zealot.
And take a lesson from the Nintendo Book Of Things To Not Do. (That they seem to be good at writing, but never reading from.) Don't make your controller look like a Klingon Hand-to-Hand weapon. Don't add more buttons Just Because You Can.
And while you're at it, sure, your games are targetted at "Mature Gamers"... from my experience as a salesdroid, that's where you're losing to all the other systems. Other than "Barbie rides a horse again" game for girls, and the occasional sports game or what have you, 90% of your titles, a parent isn't going to purchase, even for a teen, because its Questionable. I'm not saying, take the Nintendo Route Of Least Offensiveness And Family Entertainment. Just take some of your Huge Wad Of Cash, and make a few Games Parents Will Buy For Their Kids. You don't know how many copies of Mario Party / Mario Cart I've sold to parent's who bought it because "Well, its a Mario game..."
(Oh, like Microsoft will read my slashdot post and listen to me.)
"Internally, Microsoft has begun developing game prototypes, and it is using G5 systems to do so."
Thanks MS... I'm gonna have a smile on my face all goddamned day.
~D
This sig has been enciphered with a one-time pad. It could say almost anything.
Seeing as how MS wants to keep the cost down, the XBox2 certainly uses 3 IBM "Cell" cores, not G5 chips. G5 chips are affordable, Cell is downright cheap.
This is the same core that the PS3 uses, and it is going to use it for the same reasons. Low cost, high performance.
3 G5 cores would take up a lot of space die space, certainly a whole chip. 3 Cell cores would still leave space for plenty of other things on the same chip, perhaps even the graphics accelerator.
Bob
According to the Microsoft developer specs, you aren't allowed to talk about "Data," "CPUs," or anything else in your games that might suggest the XBox was a PC (except for games like Star Trek where it would be diagetic). We had a game bounce from Microsoft because we "saved data." Having a first party keyboard and mouse would run counter to that mantra.
It's difficult to justify buying a big box if you realize that it is actually a slightly smaller box than you already have.
The ______ Agenda
If the Xbox Next is not backwards compatible, it will be destroyed by the PS3.
First, on the day of release the PS3 will be able to play all PS2, PS1, and the new PS3 games. Thus, it will have several times more available games than the Xbox Next.
Second, people do not want to have multiple consoles in their living room, especially ones the size of the current Xbox. Sure, some people might have a PS2 and an Xbox, but when the Xbox Next and the PS3 are released, the choice will be easy. If you choose the PS3 you'll still only need two consoles. But if you choose the Xbox Next, you'll need three.
Third, people don't like being screwed. When people invest in games and hardware, they like knowing that they don't have to throw them away every few years. Sony respects that and allows gamers to keep their investments.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Well, first of all, it's heavy.
Yeah, just look at all those people staggering around under the weight of their iPods.