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What's the Point of Building a Home Theater PC?
An anonymous reader writes "FiringSquad has written Building a Basic HTPC. They discuss why Building a HTPC only makes sense if it can do something better than any other commercially available solution, as well as why HTPC should integrate act like a component not a computer. They also go into upsampling of DVDs to HDTV."
I got the idea into my head a while back that my PC would do everything. I'd have every piece of electronic and entertainment equipment in one box. I would be able to watch DVDs, TV, play CDs and MP3s, fake Tivo, Fax machine, answering machine all from my PC. All controlled via remote and piped to my TV.
It would be incredible.
Then I realized that I already had all of that stuff and it all worked perfectly. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
D
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Why build your own PC?
Why build your own car?
Why build your own house?
Why do any of the above when you can just purchase the finished product outright which might be better than what you could build? Because we can.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
From the graphics section:
Compared to the native tuner on my HDTV-ready 27" Samsung 2796 TV (which was last years top of the line 27" Samsung HDTV), the ATI shows a reduction in signal noise in all channels. The drawback to this effect is that it makes the picture look a little soft, this is similar to the pictures from the early progressive scan TVs. It can be argued about which picture is preferable, the slightly noisier but sharper or the noiseless, softer picture.
Can noise reduction make an image softer? If removing it makes the images softer, can it be called noise?
A HTPC is a great way to get ahead of the Copyright Gestapo.
Check this out: http://www.gujistyle.com/HTPC.html
For the whole set-up to work with minimum hassle, get a LCD (LCoS or flat-panel LCD) or plasma display or a multi-sync CRT monitor (Princeton Graphics, Monivision, Proton, CTX).
I predict that within a few years, the Copyright Gestapo will force TiVo into bankruptcy. Don't forget the broadcast flags that will be present in the TV signals. Such broadcast flags may prevent compliant consumer electronics from recording your favorite show. I doubt this would affect HTPCs since it is the software on the HTPC that does most of the work and software can be created to bypass copyright protection.
Posters here seem to have demonstrated pretty clearly that even that's not close to cost-effective, unless you have almost all parts already and don't care about much of Tivo's functionality.
You do this stuff for fun, not to save money.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
All the other functions of a HTPC aside, the PowerMac G3 I'm using does one thing I can't replicate with a one-box solution: it records HDTV over FireWire. A DVHS deck would cost me way more than the $100 + $75 FireWire/USB card I paid for the G3. Even then, the DVHS deck uses tape opposed to random access hard drive.
It's not exactly a TiVo, but it time-shifts HDTV just fine. Since there is so little HD content anyway, I have no need for an HD TiVo anyway.
this is my sig
I'm sure given more time I could think of a few more, but that covers the majors. It wasn't any cheaper than a standalone unit for some of these functions, and it isn't quite as easy to deal with, but it was fun to build and tweak on. Plus it has the added benefit of being upgradeable.
One thing that this article doesn't seem to touch on is noise. When I first built mine the noise was intolerable. I ended up having to replace the PS, CPU fan and case fans with quiet models, and lining the case with Dynamat to cut the noise down to where it didn't bother me.
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
This will only to appeal to a small segment of the population, but I speak from experience with anime (this could apply to any foreign works, though). There are times DVDs are released without subtitles in a language you can read or dialogue in a language you can understand. There are people out there (fans) who will go through the trouble of created timed subtitle scripts. So, if you have a PC and a region-compatible or region-free DVD player, you can enjoy this new video (which you payed for) with working subtitles!
This becomes more interesting when you learn that a lot of entertainment goes through a localization process when they are being brought over to foreign markets. One prime example is how virtually every Hong Kong movie must have gangster rap in it... >_< So, sometimes people want to watch the original version.
That's one advantage I can think of for HTPC.
If all you have are silver bullets, everything looks like a werewolf.
It was little more then 50 years ago that people could easily build their own cars.
There's also a very strong community of personal aircraft builders. (I know one, it impresses the hell out of me that he's building this thing and intends to fly it.)
I enjoy building my own PCs because I can pick and choose to my taste.
Where do people think innovation comes from? Big corporations paying for new designs? The majority comes from people PLAYING with ideas and creating new things!
I think the way it works is, when you buy a set-top box, it's a pretty standard piece of kit. When you buys one, you calls up your satellite provider, having plugged it in, read them off the serial number, and the number of your LNB unit, and they authorize it in their system.
Well, get a card, plug it into your pc, call them up, give them the serial number, and you're off to the races.
I think. Not sure.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I own a Power Mac G4 MDD 2-processor system connected to an Apple 17-inch digital LCD display. On it, I have the TiVo-like device EyeTV, which allows me to watch conventional cable or antenna TV, and record any show, allowing me to save the programs later, burning them to DVD, as a QuickTime movie, or as a Video CD.
So, I've been waiting for video cards with HD tuners to arrive. It's inevitable. For one, getting this for me will be cheaper than getting a full HDTV for the time being, because I will not want to skimp on the type and size of TV I want for the household. Another reason is that my computer's screen, while not perfect as Apple's 23-in HD Cinema Display, is suitable enough for a clear, digital signal.
I suspect that El Gato or other companies will make and sell HD tuner video cards that also support conventional stuff (VGA, conventional TV tuners, etc.) just for the geeks. Most normals will simply drop into Best Buy, buy a TV, and be done with it. For me, however, I want all the mods, baby, and the ability to burn, burn, burn. A conventional HDTV, no matter how nice it looks, can't do it, and I don't want to add yet another computer connected to it to try to get recordings. I'm a one-computer kind of guy in daily use (though I collect plenty of them for nostalgia).
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
So i've been running an htpc for a bit, and i love it.
In fact, even my wife loves it.. which is a feat
I used it for mp3 playback, streaming mp3's, dvd upsampling and playback and television watching. I use a 100 hour directtivo for pvr stuff.
It's an athlon 1800+, 512 megs of ram, radeon 9000, guillemot soundcard with hacked drivers running optical out to the receiver
It's in an antec sonata, and is using zalman cooling stuff for everything.. the vidcard has no fan.. That machine is quieter than the tivo.
It's all running vga straight back to an infocus x1 projector showing on a 92" vutec silverstar screen
I control it all with a gyration ultra mouse/kbd combo
Software wise, i use zoomplayer with the cinemaster video codecs going through ffdshow for dvd playback and dscaler for tv watching. It's all running xp professional because i'm not particluarly linux savvy.
That setup has replaced my television completely. dscaler does a wonderful job of managing the tv signal, and zoomplayer is just phenomenal.
When we did LOTR:TT extended cut, i ripped both discs to the hard drive, added in trailers on the front end, psa's from the 60's, and spliced in a 10 minute dancing candy intermission in the middle.
Just hit play, and it goes magically.
The only complaint i have is the lack of useful hdtv cards. You can receive ota signals, with minimal pvr support, but that's it. Nobody supports signal over cable lines, or anything fancy.
I assume i'll need some sort of gray market hardware in the future to do that..
Oh yeah.. the total cost of all of this was less than a decent lcd hdtv set.. and you get a whole lot more..
If you can't convince you're wife/significant other with the raw windows/linux interface, look at some of the frontends. I used myhtpc (myhtpc.net) for a bit, and it was first rate..
I abandoned it since my wife is savvy enough to figure it out herself..
For more info, go to avsforum.com and read their htpc forums.. or linux htpc forums as you desire..
Highly recommended.
Right. I did a chapter on HTPCs recently for "Hardware Hacking: Have Fun While Voiding Your Warranty". IMHO, the two reasons for building your own HTPC are aesthetics and control. The latter meaning that you don't anyone else deciding how your commercial skip will work, or what you will and won't be allowed to network.
Generally speaking, you won't be able to build a custom HTPC for less money than a commercial HTPC(-like) device with the exact same functions.
I caught the end of a segment on a news show explaining the stats on how many Tivo (I think) users had paused/replayed a certain item during the superbowl, including how many times they had replayed it.
I didn't realize the PVR sent this sort of infomation back to the mother ship.
It's rated "funny" but it's actually true. There are porn companies now offering 720P, high-definition porn in Windows Media format. The only way to watch this stuff is via a HTPC.
"How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
Link: "Media Ready 4000"
They are calling it an "interactive convergence product...hmmm - All I'm looking for is a way to centralize the media functions (i.e. DVD, MP3, etc) so I don't have to blow the speakers in the den to listen to a song while I'm in the pool...
In all honesty, I think it has 95% of the features most /.ers are looking for, albeit it lacks the DIY aspect.
The website says it was scheduled for Release in Dec 2003, but I've yet to see where I could buy one... Anyone know where I can pick one up?
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"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
My major points are being able to play my music collection through the same box and MAME.
I have a few hundred CDs sitting in boxes, I would like to keep them there and listen to the ripped versions.
When somebody builds a box that can do both of those on top of what they do now, I'm in.
Why build your own PC?
I built my HTPC with an Athlon 2600, 1 gig ram, 240 gig of drives, ATI 9600 (HD Output), Hauppauge vid capture for under $1,000. I got to rewind and pause Janet's boob all I wanted and Tivo never knew.
Why build my own car?
Ummm, exactly how many people are doing this? I haven't seen that many home built ones on the road. Restored yes, home built no.
Why build my own house?
So I can configure room layout, ceiling heights, carpets, windows and all the extras that don't cost much to change *before the house is built*
Why do any of the above? Because I just ain't average enough for the prebuilt stuff
I understand your point, as was the jist of the article...but this is Slashdot. I'm sure that there are a significant amount of Slashdot readers who feel that it's perfectly natural to use a keyboard and mouse in their living room.
Secondly, I have a wireless remote for my computer from ATI, and it *does* provide more functionality than a component remote. It works as a wireless mouse, and has multiple buttons that will act as macros to do whatever I want (as well as each button behaving differently for different applications). I'm psyched to get my updated version in the mail -- it should offer even greater functionality.
While this solution (and ones like it) are clearly not for everyone, most geeks don't have a problem with it. Most people who are willing to put together a system like this probably feel the same way I do. I find it more flexible than the alternative (a component system).
-Turkey
So the big issues are: 1) having 1 box that does it, or 3 boxes
2) components you already have
Consider: 100 cd carousel, console with one of those "30+ classic atari games!", and an AV receiver to combine the sound sources (A, B, or A+B). (those carousels go for $60 these days, a console can go from $300 down to nothing if used, and a receiver can be anywhere from $1000 to under $100, depending upon your needs).
If you already have a lot of these components, this set up can satisfy most of your requirements.
But if you want this all on ONE box, then there is only one way to go: Custom set-up.
As for the computer solution, playing ripped music (Wavs, Flac, MP3, WTF) and playing MAME are not really processor intensive- so whatever machine you have lying around might be great. All you need is a half decent sound card (if you don't need Dolby 5.1, then most cheap soundblasters will do ya!) and a half decent videocard with some TV out (does your TV take composite? Coax? S-video?). And an $80 harddrive from Compusa (maybe 2 if you don't go for MP3).
So thats like, $250, $300 for HD, soundcard and video card?
Which is cheap, but the above setup can be just as cheap.
In this case, (no PVR) the Computer solution might be cheaper than a PVR solution (due to the limited demands on the computer) and it satisfies the 1 box requirement. So thats a win.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Concern: Privacy.
According to Reuters or, if you prefer, CNN, that moment was not only the most viewed and re-viewed slice of airtime for the Superbowl time slot, but for ALL time slots since they've been monitoring their customers' viewing habits. Now, I'm no member of the tinfoil hat club, but I think someone even suggesting that they should be able to or should attempt to analyze what I watch (via broadcast TV no less!) with OR without my permission is just a little creepy. Wal-Mart's taking it on the chin for proposing a tracking system for products they sell, but at least they've got a plausible business-related reason for it (not to mention the tech's "out there in the future" somewhere so we'll supposedly have a chance to develop societal guards against it's misuse. Mmm hmm. And I wonder how many geeks added a "kill switch" to their OnStar box last week just to make sure those "private moments" remained private...)
Solution: Do-It-Yourself
A lot of sets still accept and only display 480p directly witout scaling. I think most CRT HDTVs multiscan 480p and 1080i. Some plasmas are simply EDTV: 480i.
For scaling, unless the set has a Faroudja FLI2300 chip, a newer Radeon will likely be at least as good.
Few TVs have acceptable deinterlacing, but on video based material it is better than even WinDVD. Granted, most software DVD players suck - they are "bob" or "weave". but when patched into software like dScaler and ffdshow, they are better than most deinterlacing chips, and sometimes meet Faroudja's DCDi.
I have a Holo3DGraph PCI card and the quality from even analog sources output to an older LCD projector looks phenominal, in part because the projector has a poorer scaler than the HTPC does.
I disagree on asthetics, anyways. My main reason for building a HTPC is simple: I already have all the components through other means and aquisitions, with the exception of an LCD projector. $500 on eBay, and I have a full theater.
I don't care about asthetics for two reasons: 1) the system will be behind the main seating area in a cupboard that's closed (but vented to avoid overheating issues), and 2) when I'm watching a movie, I'm actually watching the movie, not the equipment. Sure, when I get bored with a show, I may gaze at the equipment from time to time, but not necessarily when I'm at my own place. It's more to see what other people are using.
Proof this is already happening:
Janet Jackson most watched moment among TiVo users
Here is my DVR system. Actually, it's two systems. My DVR has a 1.4 Athlon, 256 megs of RAM, 10 gig HD for apps and OS, 80 gig for MP3s, 160 RAID-0 partition for recording, 120 HD for video storage/playback, and an ATI All-in-Wonder 8500DV. It's connected under the floor to the TV/receiver in my living room. Thus, you cannot hear it from the living room.
My second system is a cheap PIII 550 with an 80 gig HD. It too holds my MP3 collection and is primarily for playing music. However, it too is connected to the living room TV and reciever and can play previously recorded content via the network. Thus, when the DVR is recording something, I can still play music or watch shows.
Also, the music computer has two soundcards. Winamp uses my Audigy2 and everything else uses a cheap Hercules card. Thus, I can even listen to music while someone else is watching a recorded show!!!
Also, that music computer is wired to nearly every receiver to the house, so I can listen not only from the living room, but from the kitchen, bedroom, etc. (I'm working on getting the bathroom's wired with speakers.) And I should point out that ATI's Remote Wonder works throughout my huge two-story farm house.
With my homebuilt DVR systems, I can do the following:
1. Record shows, edit out the commercials, and burn them to DVD.
2. Pause, rewind, and fast-forward live TV.
3. Know what's currently on TV and what's coming up. (With ATI's Guideplus/EasyView software, included with its All-in Wonder cards.)
4. Access my entire 900+ CD collection in MP3 format from nearly every room in the house. (Via TightVNC.)
5. Create a playlist of ALL my favorite songs, which I can access with one button from my Remote Wonder. That playlist is over four days long; it's like having my own radio station!
5. Normalize the volume of my CD/MP3 collection via my Audigy 2 card. That's important. A roommate had one of those 200 disc CD players, but considering that nearly every CD has a different volume, I considered it worthless.
6. Rip my DVD collection so I can play them back without all the FBI crap, from nearly every room in the house.
7. And most importantly, I do not have to pay a monthy service, or have it randomly record shows it feels I might want to watch.
Sure, my system probably cost a lot, (I built them both out of mostly spare parts) but considering it does exactly what I want and there is no commercially available alternative, I find it extremely valuable. Heck, even my wife can use it!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Funny, I was ablwe to get a case (coolermaster HTC-620) for $80.00 the motherboard+processor for $90.00 a mpeg2 capture card (AverMedia M175) for $80.00 + a hard drive and spending only 1 8 hour period on a sunday when I would be screwing around anyways to install slackware+mythtv on it to get something that is 100% impossible with ANY purchaseable DVR on the market. the ability to export video to any format I want (xvid for my laptop mostly) or burn to SVCD/DVD for less than $350.00
Yes I used a motherblard that has a soldered on processor... whoopdie doo. yes I have to use a $40.00 scan converter dongle that doesnt give me 1080i HDTV quality... but nothing else does and it looks as good as that TiVO it's setting next to (and is replacing)
I suggest you get a better source for your hardware and make realistic decisions (128 meg of ram is PLENTY people! no you dont need 7.1 surround sound + 600 gig of hard drive space and 3.4 ghz processor)
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Rather than computer. I did try though...in a quest for superior picture quality. I assumed that the computer would provide a better picture quality than my non-progressive scan DVD using the onboard iDCD Farjuoda de-interlacer chip set in my InFocus X1 projector. I was wrong. I did hook up my iBook to my MOTU 828 interface I use for music recording this was to get 5.1 audio out of the iBook. The MOTU has 24 bit decoders and optical out which went in nicely to the Sony amp. Anyway....from studying deinterlacers and how exactly DVD's are played back, mastered and what the aspect ratios and frame rate of film I concluded the quality of the DVD image resides in 1. the mastering technique, i.e. Film to digital transfer method used 2. The quality of the print used in the mastering 3. And the sophistication of the de-interlacing. Most progressive DVD players have deinterlacing chipsets that take the information from the DVD produce a progressive scan image. The quality and sophistication of these chipset varies greatly. Do some googles on "deinterlacing chipset". In addition they also provide proprietary functions to reduce and eliminate digital artifacts that are the result of image processing. When I used my iBook to play back the image I did get a higher resolution image but it was harsh and very non-film like. The deinterlacer built into the projector is designed to produce a "film like" quality to the image. Taking great pains to reduce the rainbow effect and other artifacts like pixelation, jaggies and chroma abberations that result form the hardware and convertsion. So keep in mind watching films on DVD's is a much different activity than watching HDTV. Film is an art is for the most part is still an analog process (barring the increasing number of digitally shot movies like 28 Days Later that was later converted to film) So having seprately engineered components to produce the appropriate signal is inherently going to be better. A DVD player to watch movies, HDTV tuner to watch HDTV and a monitor capable of producing quality images from a variety of sources is the way to go. That is if you are really picky about what hits the back of your eyeball.
Sure you can buy a ready made solution, but what happens when the new tech comes out? Is it upgradeable? I had a spare box sitting around, threw Linux on it, got a $10 GeForce2 with TV-out off of eBay and made a pretty damn cool digital movie player that I can ssh into and sftp movies to and from. Not only that, but I can run picture slideshows or fire up Mozilla and hit Bit Torrent sites on a 27 inch TV. I haven't messed with MythTV or Freevo yet. I'm looking to get a WinTV PVR card and set up HD recording, but my drive is only 20 gig (It's what I had laying around)
;) It's Linux! I'm now looking to upgrade the CPU because the movies are getting bigger and putting strain on my AMD 500. I fear that if I went with a proprietary solution, I'd be locked in. With this, I can build a cool case and keep upgrading here and there as I desire. I highly recommend it as a cool project that can be done at a very low cost.
It's a great solution. My girlfriend and I watch tons of movies on it every weekend. We usually have 5 or 6 downloads going at the same time. I know its expandable for new formats and new means of acquiring media. Plus it never crashes
Sig? No thanks man, I'm tring to quit.
Get a video capture card with onboard MPEG-2 encoding and you could build a MythTV box with a Pentium I ($130 for a Hauppauge-250 on ebay). Or better yet, get a video capture card with onboard MPEG-2 encoding and decoding ($180 for a Hauppauge-350 on ebay).
Still think you don't have the spare parts lying around? You don't need much CPU power or RAM (256MB is plenty) if all the encoding/decoding is on the capture card. Grab a PCI IDE controller for $10 and a 200GB drive (I've seen 'em as cheap as $100) and yer' set.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent