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Tivo Tracks Superbowl Viewing Habits
ThePretender writes "Sprinkled in the Janet Jackson boob stories is an alarming bit of information: Tivo tracks subscribers' viewing habits. They know how many times the boob was viewed, among other good-to-have (meaning data worth $$) information. Yes, if you agreed to Tivo's privacy policy you knew they could do this, with the promise that you aren't identifiable. Put on the tin foil hats? Or just another way for them to keep your monthly fee down (snicker)." A story from 2002 has more information and makes clear that Tivo does have the capability to record every click you make on the remote control, at all times. Previously Tivo said they tracked 10,000 people for the Super Bowl, this year 20,000.
TiVo Watches the Super Bowl... oh, wait, that was about TiVo and the Super Bowl of Two years ago...
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See, TiVo's had their semi-permeable privacy policy since they started, as documented on
TiVo Data Collection Ramifications
TiVo To Sell Customer Data
Nielsen to measure TiVo usage
So, if this is shocking news to you that TiVo was able to quickly crunch the data and figure out the most rewound moment of the Super Bowl broadcast, you haven't been paying attention. They had this capability for any massively watched program since day one. It was part of the design of the system.
TiVo offers a detailed data service to broadcasters which lets them see by timestamp within an episode what moments people watched, rewound, and skipped. Rumoredly, TechTV's The Screen Savers bought that service once for just one episode, and it ended up proving that their managers where right about what people wanted to see a little more than the actual content-making staff wanted to hear.
The Super Bowl most rewound moment is something TiVo's been doing for years, just for the sake of putting out a press release to get the TiVo name into conversations about what we were gonna be talking about anyway the week after the event... and from Slashdot's coverage over the years, it appears to have worked.
From the article, with emphasis added:
Privacy advocates have decried such technologies as invasive, but TiVo officials say they do not pass along information that would identify individual viewers.
When gathering customer marketing research, TiVo says it does not link viewer data to their name, gender or age -- only into one big database that can identify users by ZIP code.
What's interesting is how the article points out what TiVo does not do. They don't "pass along" information "when gathering customer marketing research".
It's not stated outright, but that sounds like they do record all that information... but it's ok, 'cause they don't use it for marketing purposes.
Which, of course, puts TiVo right up there with the so-called loyalty cards "privacy" policies. They promise not to resell personal information, but they do gather it, and it's available to anyone who knows a friendly judge.
The bottom line, as usual, is simple. Don't buy anything at Kroger, or watch anything on TiVo, that you wouldn't want [John Ashcroft | your wife's divorce lawyer] to find out about.
By the way, does anyone know if Dish Network's PVR phones home about my rewinding habits?
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
They did it last year, they did it the year before that. They stated in their initial company releases that this is what they intended to do.
And you know what?
-DirectTV pay-per-view tracks what I watch...
-My ISP knows what web sites I've requested...
-My credit card company knows what I spend my money on.
-My hospital shares its information with my insurance company, which in turn shares its information with my company. (Because they have to pay their share of the bills)
It's my TV viewing info... I don't care. If anything, if they sell my viewing habits and realize that Firefly and Farscape are more watched than My Big Sweaty Boyfriend... That's a GOOD THING!
It's possible that if somebody was watching illegal content, the cops could get a warrant, grab the TiVo, and then have a log of every remote click that the TiVo heard, even those for devices other than the TiVo.
Of course, the extent they could do this is very limited. TiVo units perge this data every time they make a call-in, and once the call is completed TiVo doesn't keep the association between the log file and who sent it unless they have flagged the user's account for support reasons. Also, I know of no real court cases where cops have actually tried to get TiVo data used as evidence...
Crispin, always wanted to be in the Neilson ratings
----
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
CTO, Immunix Inc.
Personally, I'd much rather have Tivo tracking users than networks relying on nielson ratings. This can only hurt shows like Malcolm In The Middle and Everybody Loves Raymond, two shows people "love" but nobody watches. With accurate ratings, these shows would have ratings lower than enrollment in daycare at neverland ranch.
The trouble is that the information is being collected at all. So while most regular users might trust TiVo, it's important to know that they could, in principle, collect very complete statistics concerning your viewing habits. Either by accident or by subpoena, those records could be released.
By contrast, if you created a TiVo equivalent from a home computer with a TV tuner card, it would be completely anonymous -- nobody would ever know what you watched unless they had access to your machine.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
I am utterly failing to be either surprised or alarmed.
... so? Yes, I would be concerned if they said "Matt Hooper, 26, of Colorado Springs replayed the Janet Jackson breast scene a record 126 times. Sales statistics in the area also show an unusual spike in hand lotion and tissue purchases."
n y" standard Slashdot response, think about what you have trusted companies with. How many companies have your name and address? Your home phone number? Your bank account information? Your credit card information? Why did you trust them with such information, if no companies can ever be trusted?
OH NO! THEY CAN TELL THAT LOTS OF PEOPLE WATCHED THAT SCENE! DEAR LORD, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Ummmm
They haven't said that, or anything remotely resembling that. They have said "Tivo users watched this particular segment of the Superbowl more than anything else." So?
Yes, Tivo could do something horrible with my personal information. But then again, Hustler could also publish a big long list of everybody that subscribes to it, complete with home addresses, but they don't. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but at some point we just have to have some level of trust in other people. Tivo has said that my information is kept anonymous, and has given me no reason to doubt their word, so I don't see a big problem with trusting them.
And before you start the "oh-my-god-what-an-idiot-for-trusting-a-big-compa
If you have used a credit card, you must trust every single store at which you have ever swiped your credit card at least as much as I trust Tivo. If you have ever applied for a loan, you've coughed up your bank account information. And you're worried about someone knowing what television shows you're watching?
ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't mind Tivo tracking me, in fact, I think I want it to. It'd be nice to track the statistics of some of the shows I like, possibly keeping them on air longer. This could be a good thing.
It's possible that if somebody was watching illegal content, the cops could get a warrant, grab the TiVo, and then have a log of every remote click
Exactly what kind of "illegal content" is your TiVo going to be playing? Only that which is broadcasted/streamed to your unit from giant media conglomerates. I fail to see how "8:45pm - Channel 725 - 0:13 minutes - volume_down x 3" is going to help convict anyone of anything? Even if you use your TiVo to control your DVD/VCR, how can button clicks associated with your zip code be used for anything?
whats to gain by going lower then Zip code? nothing.
What TiVo provides in an acurate count of what people watch, each within a small segment of an advertised area.
Any finer data is worthless.
TiVo:"hey this address watches Bud Commercials, call budwieser and let them know! this way budwieser can try to sell this ONE houshold beer. Of course since it is so individual, it will cost $5000 a six pack."
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I have to say in general that I don't trust corporations, however I don't feel the need to bolt on my tin foil hat after this revelation.
I do think that disclosed practices (such as anonymously monitoring for viewing habits) isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm certain that Tivo has found and created new features based on viewing the tracking information.
I also think that Tivo stands a decent chance of displacing Nielsen's as a premier rating service. And as long as it is done anonymously, it is a god send. As I think that Tivo would more accurately reflect "real" viewing habits. (And of course possibly give it a geek edge, so that our favorite programing gets better ratings).
The second Tivo transitions over to a non-anonmous tracking service, is probably the day that their company headquarters will burn down. Outraged geeks will storm the place.
I think Tivo is continuing to walk on the correct side of a very tenuous debate over usability, tracking, and privacy invasion.
The comparison to Microsoft has to be made... If this were Microsoft I wouldn't trust them to track it, as they have a history of repeated violations of their own policies, written and stated. Whereas Tivo does not have that same history, that I am aware of.
Why don't I care?
1) I want TV exec's to know what I watch, so they keep it on the air.
2) I want Ad exec's to know what I want to buy, and how to make a commercial that captures my interest; I have free will and don't buy things just because Jamie Lee Curtis tells me too.
3) I want Tivo to stay and business, and better yet find a way to make enough to waive my monthly fee, without resorting to being asses about me hacking my Tivo to add a bigger drive, etc.
If it bothers you, grab a set of rabbit ears and disconnect from the grid. If you are upset that there isn't a full screen pop-up every time you push a button that the click has been recorded and may be sent to Tivo during the next phone connection, I don't want to hear it. If you own a Tivo and are just figuring this out, then I gotta feel you really aren't all that concerned about this anyway, or you would have bothered to check why your Tivo wants to call out every night.
Personally, I'd be more concerned about why the cable companies are working hard at getting their boxes installed in your house connected to their two-way network full time. How do you know there isn't a camera inside there?
You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
If channel 725 is HBO and you don't subscribe to HBO, it's a pretty big "gotcha!"
Incidentally, the (correct) quote, from the Congressional Record, is:
When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the Catholics, I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned. And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists, I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned. Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church -- and there was nobody left to be concerned.
-h-
"[Michaelangelo's David] shows part of the human body which, practical though they may be, are EVIL!"
Sorry for sounding a bit offtopic, but the people that are upset about this to get a life. In a country where it's okay to fry mentally ill people to death, let any eejit carry a gun, consume a huge proportion of the world's resources and invade a country for dubious reasons, exposing a bit of human flesh is greeted with the sort of outrage that you'd think would be reserved for the end of the world.Drill baby drill - on Mars
I see more an more of these specialty shows with direct, in show sponsors and I think it's great. Doesn't seem to have reduced the number of ad spots though.
I don't mind banner ads on web sites. I occasionaly click through one and have made a purchase. In fact, it I know I'm going to order something from, say, ThinkGeek, I'll hit my favorite site that usually has ThinkGeek banner ads first and try to make the purchase via a click through. The company still got my money and I hopefully helped out the site. I never make purchases from unsoliceted e-mail though, and outright avoid those companies.
If I go to a web site, I expect to see some on topic, non intrusive banner ads, just like I expect commercials on TV. They're more useful for me and the advertiser (and in the long run, the site/show being sponsored) if they're ads I actually need.
I've written a few custome applications for companies that do marketing tracking, customer care card, coupon redemtion sorts of data collection. These people aren't evil. They're just trying to be more effective in their advertising. Most don't want to waste time or money advertising to people who don't/won't purchase. They aren't collecting the fact that I bought shoe polish and a frozen TV dinner at 2am to sell it to big brother, because that's just some wierd ass purchase and I must be a bad person that should be put on a watch list... they do it becuase if they can find out that people who buy X usually buy Y, or that any time Z is on sale for $.75 off, I buy 10 of them, they can better plan their ad campaigns. If they waste less money on marketing, but are just as succesful, in a perfect world, I'm better off as a consumer. In the real world, I remain employed because I sometimes write these applications that companies see a return on, and my 401K does better because these companies turned a proffit.
It's interesting to see how many highly moderated posts are behind Tivo 100% as long as it remains anonymous. Personally, I'm OK with a company doing this as long as they're completely upfront about it (which Tivo is), although I'd be a little wary (again, that's just me).
However, this honestly seems to be one of those moments where Slashdot, as a community or group, becomes somewhat hypocritical. Note: individual posters agreeing with Tivo are not necessarily being hypocritical and this isn't me trying to lecture anyone who does support that company. Please allow me to explain why I think this.
Look at other cases where companies, or even governments, can or do collect anonymous information (or information that is then only handled in an aggregate way) and Slashdot usually cries out against them with the usual tinfoil hat jokes.
RFID tags is one such example. These are inherently benign and don't have much connection with an individual. Say you have a coat with an embedded with a chip which when read says, "CoatCo Coat, black, large" to the reading device. What if a reading device read that each time you walked into a store and that store then showed companies in an effort to get more direct marketing? It is essentially the same thing, as long as anonymity is kept.
"Ah ha!" some might say. "But hooking it up to video-cameras and receipts with my credit card, they can identify me readily." This is all quite true, but you could say the same with Tivo; they could correlate your credit card number, address and telephone number if they wanted to. Obviously, many people would not agree to such an invasion of privacy and Tivo probably would not succeed in doing so, nor am I trying to suggest that Tivo is just waiting for the right moment.
Now, RFID tags are not exactly the same as Tivo watching television habits. One big one is that you choose to watch Tivo, but you may not necessarily be knowingly choosing to have a RFID tag in your merchandise. But I think the comparison is still valid. Too, I find Tivo recording my information somewhat more disturbing than someplace finding out I prefer some type of jacket; in the store I'm in a public place and therefore have a lower expectation of privacy (people can see and recognize my jacket with their eyes), while at home it's somewhat unnerving.
Just to reiterate, Tivo is not "wrong" or "right" in this case. This is a personal issue between customers and a company. I just wanted to point out that perhaps Slashdot as a whole is giving Tivo a little bit of an easy ride. Then again, perhaps they've earned it for seeming (I don't own one) to respond so well to their customers.
TSage