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Who is Responsible for Advice Labels on Games?
AccUser asks: "So, I spent the day in the local hospital with my son after he suffered a seizure while we played a computer game (that shall remain nameless). The game was labeled as one for younger children, but had no warnings about photosensitive seizures on either the packaging or associated documentation, and I assumed that it would be a safe game for him to play. Many games (Halo and others) come with these warnings, and rightly so - I expected that any game that was a potential risk would indicate this. To be honest, all was fine until the final level, when there were a significant number of special lighting effects, and I guess this triggered the subsequent events. So, is the labeling of games to indicate risk of photosensitive seizures and other dangers mandatory, both in Europe and the States, and who is responsible for placing this information? Is it down to the distributor? The publisher? The developer?"
He/She will figure it out for you.
Don't the major consoles have these disclaimers in their user manuals? Not to be rude, but if you knew your child was susceptible to seizures then you were negligent in allowing him to play them. You must be the reason my hair-dryer has a tag with an oversized representation of itself and a disproportionately small bath tub crossed out with the universal NO! symbol.
Can anyone explain or point me to some URLs about why and how lighting effects induce seizures in certain people?
I've known for years that it does happen, but it still boggles my mind that something as inocent as a little bit of flashing light could cause so much harm to a person.
If you would kindly refer back to his question, it seems that he does check for the warnings.
One of the reasons he let his son play was because of the lack of a warning.
"However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation."
Without discussing who's job it is, I'm sure we can all agree that determining whether a video game can be made to create the particular type of pattern that may trigger any person's epileptic seizure might be quite difficult. There are two potential solutions. Labeling, if done conservatively and cheaply would pretty much require every video game developer to put "Danger, this videogame has flashing lights that will give you seizures" on the packaging, and the result would be the same: you wouldn't know which ones were actually dangerous for your son.
The other option would be for some developers to either design the game with photosensitives in mind (unlikely) to put "disable all lighting effects" in the options menu. "Disable all lighting effects" doesn't sound like a bad idea... and probably not as expensive to code or QA as a photosensitive-conscious game. It might decrease the quality of the game for y'all epileptics... but you wouldn't be foaming and twitching on the floor. Personally, I'd take that trade.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
No, no he wouldn't have. That's the point. He saying he knew his kid was sensitive to this sort of thing, and did check. He's probably extremely upset with himself right now, whether or not it's his fault, so I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have everything right side up.
You watch your kid have a gran mal seizure, and we'll gauge your rationality afterwards for comparison.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Just because this game didn't have a warning doesn't mean that it should have been necessary. Your knowledge that some games had these warnings initially should have been enough to tip you off that this game might not have been safe for your child. The fact that it omitted a warning doesn't shouldn't imply anything. Does a fork set imply that it's safe to stick one of its forks into a light socket if it does not include a warning? No, even if there are others that warn you that it's not a bright idea.
I have a feeling that you're wanting to sue somebody in this situation. Instead, you should accept the fact that you made an error in your parental judgement. You shouldn't have let him play the game without consulting his doctor, whether or not the game had a warning, because you knew that video games could potentially cause a problem before you let your son play the game. Besides, you can't go around trying to protect everybody from everything. Don't try to pass blame onto anybody else, just apologize to your son and move on.
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
that came with the game system. It may will indicate that the system should not be used, period, by anyone who suffers from photosensitive seizures. For instance, the Playstation 2 manual (available here) clearly states on page 2:
WARNING: READ BEFORE USING YOUR PLAYSTATION(R)2 COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM. A very small percentage of individuals may experience epileptic seizures when exposed to certain light patterns or flashing lights. Exposure to certain patterns or backgrounds on a television screen or while playing video games, including games played on the PlayStation 2 console, may induce an epileptic seizure in these individuals. Certain conditions may induce previously undetected epileptic symptoms even in persons who have no history of prior seizures or epilepsy. If you, or anyone in your family, has an epileptic condition, consult your physician prior to playing. If you experience any of the following symptoms while playing a video game - dizziness, altered vision, eye or muscle twitches, loss of awareness, disorientation, any involuntary movement, or convulsions - IMMEDIATELY discontinue use and consult your physician before resuming play
Moral of the story: Don't assume that merely because the game manual does not repeat this warning that the game is safe for your child; any game (indeed, anything that flashes light, including your TV when it is not being used by the game system) can trigger a seizure.
... and the unfortunate truth is that I have yet to find a game that's 100% safe for her. She's been affected by pretty much everything, with the exceptions being Mahjong and Solitaire. Even Tetris Worlds wasn't completely safe as some levels use different lighting effects than others. One trick she's found is that if the room lights are alot brighter than the computer screen it doesn't affect her nearly as much! Hope this helps and I wish your son a speedy recovery!
Kleedrac
Sure we wang, can.
From what I know of photosensitive epilepsy, the trigger is caused by patterns of light, like strobes and bars, etc. That means that any CRT display can cause a seizure by displaying a pattern at a certain frequency. Like a cartoon explosion or something (remember that pokemon event in Japan a few years back? Yeah, like that).
Now the problem specific to video games is refresh rates. I'm sure I don't have to explain refresh rates to a crowd of geeks, but technically it is a repeating pattern, and therefore capable of causing seizures. Luckilly, most modern CRTs refresh fast enough (60-100hz+) to avoid this problem. But a video game that pushes your hardware might not be able to render frames that fast. If your game slows down to about 25hz or so, you can cause a seizure. Especially if vsync is on, since vsync limits the frequency to the refresh rate of the monitor (to avoid rendering parts of two seperate frames in a single pass - aka "tearing"). If the refresh rate isn't met, then typically a multiple is used, at least temporarily. This can lock your refresh rate below the usual frequency for extended periods of time, which is a recipie for disaster as far as photosensitivity is concerned.
So while, yes, you probably could 'test' videogames for the likelyhood of causing seizures, the reality is that any CRT can be a hazard, regardless of media content. It just means that photosensitive epileptics have to be very careful about what they watch. And how they watch too - taking precautions like staying back from a screen (so it doesn't dominate your field of view), taking frequent breaks, etc. Basically looking out for themselves.
Not that any of this matters in a court of law, mind you.
So would it be reasonable to say that a modern PC coupled with an LCD monitor would virtually remove any risk of siezures? (Except maybe over the shock of the prices).
Was this a PC game or a console game? And if a console game, which console?
I work for Sony and AFAIK every single game has these warnings on - and rightly so. Every parent should be aware that any video game (and many TV programs) can potentially cause seizures in photosensitive individuals. The only safe route is abstinance.
In any case, you should inform the game's publisher of this event, to ensure they tighten their act up.
like the flasher on superbowl? might answer the one question about what percentage of the population is affected by said flashes...
oh wait, the search engine stories reported that as the most popular search of all time.
just turn down the refresh rate on your vid settings until it goes away, then turn it back up until they start. get empirical. and perhaps keep the wean away from computer games!
I think it is irresponsible to let your son play any video game when you know that he suffers from epilepsy. Warnings on the packaging can only indicate that there might be a higher risk because the game makes extensive use of lighting effects but in general seizure can be triggered by almost anything and it will depend on the individual.
I don't know about "virtually removing", but an LCD fed with a digital signal would certainly be much safer. It has to be digital though, because analouge will (apparently) produce a similar refreshing effect. So not only do you have to scrape up the cash for an LCD display, you'll need to find a video card with digital output on it too. I think its safe to say most people would be wriggling on the floor after pricing out that kind of gear, epileptic or not. ;)
After taking a random sampling of game manuals I have lying around, *every* single console game had this warning printed in both the manual for the game and the manual that came with the system. I know this has been a common practice going back at least as far as the NES.
No PC game manuals I looked at had any such warning, however the EULAs (for whatever they're worth) all contain passages disclaiming responsability for damages, including personal injury.
After some brief googling, it would seem that 15-20hz is the key danger frequency for triggering photosensitive epilepsy, as well has high contrast patterns in a cycle of 1-4hz per degree. So having guidelines that would make games safe most photosensitive people seems to be a possability, but I think it would be rather difficult to make all developers aware of this. This may be a good thing though to have an independant organization like the ESRB evaluate, I think it would be a worthwhile cause to take up with them.
Yes yes, sorry I should have mentioned that. You still need contrasting elements to be displayed on your screen. But with low framerates, you already have part of the equasion needed for a seizure. All thats really required is motion between two contrasting items. Then you get a contrasting pattern at low frequency, and bingo - potential seizure. :P).
Mind you, these types of events aren't very common - just possible (especially if you sit 6" from the screen, as kids love to do
Oh, and you can read up a bit on photosensitive epilepsy here. Its not very detailed (nor technical), but its a good little overview.
I did some googling for peanut allergy and photosensitive epilepsy. It seems peanut allergy occurs at about 25x more often; however, I was not aware that either of these are as common as the statistics show. This is quite an eye opener for me.
Peanut allergy affects about 1:125 people
Photosensitive epilepsy affects about 1:3000 peopleNOTE: This post is actually meant to be informative; I went with a humorous title to get noticed.
I believe it would be disingenuous of the game manufacturers to label certain games with seizure warnings and leave others without when they really have no way of knowing which ones will or will not stimulate a given epileptic.
That said if I were you I would consider the following things. Maybe use PCs and not consoles for gaming so you have more control over the frame rate and refresh rate, hoping to avoid the certain frequencies that may cause this. Also something like a Gameboy Advance or one of those small LCD screens that attach to the console may prevent this, I would investigate this.
Also if you have and HD TV or an available computer monitor you might try using progressive scan capable consoles as they should have higher refresh rates and less flicker. And I'm sure there a websites/blogs/forums for epileptic gamers. Check them out and see what works for them.
I hope your son is feeling well and good luck.
STOP ROCK VIDEO
I now know what might trigger my sons seizures, but before playing this game, my son had never had a seizure. And I had played the game (extensively!) before he had. To be honest, the game was pretty tame throughout, but the problem was with the final level. In hindsight, I think it had been developed almost independently of the rest of the game (ok, it used the same engine, etc.) as the monitor changed resolution when the level started. The graphics were fairly blurred and the lighting quite intense. I think that these things caused the problem. As it happened I was playing the game with my son at the time, had I not been, I would not have known the issues with the final level unless I had played the game through to completion before letting him play. I had played enough myself to give me the feeling that the game was suitable for him, but this proved not to be the case.
Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.
I'm not looking for someone to sue. I'm looking to find out if the community thinks that this is an important issue or not. I'm looking to find out if I can bring pressure to the industry to tighten the labelling of games up. I'm looking to make sure that this doesn't happen to my son again. I'm lucky - I was playing the game with him at the time. What if I hadn't been?
Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.
Here's the question you're not answering: If he had never had a seizure, why were you so careful to check for it? Previous diagnosis? Family history? Paranoia? Hindsight? What?
First, I hope your kid gets better. As a gamer/nerd, I also watch out for what my kids play and I have to respect any parent that says they read the labels and buy accordingly. Kudos to you.
Second, from reading over the posts, it sounds like you've done nothing wrong. You have the right hardware (PC with LCD using a digital and not analog video card), your kid had no seizure history, and you've been responsible in the titles purchased. While there may be no legal reparations possible (IANAL) the publisher and developers both deserve to know about this incident. It allows them to possibly make personal reparations to you and your family. It allows them to possibly look into their development, publishing, labeling policies. And being a PC game, it might also push them into the development of a patch for the game to reduce the intensity of that final level.
Finally, I'd go ahead and post the name of the game here since this crowd is not likely to start a news jihad against the companies for this incident. And other people may have similar problems with that title, or other titles from the same developer. Useful knowledge to have for any letters you choose to write.
Again, good luck to you and your kid, and kudos to you for taking some responsibility for your kid in this day-n-age when most parents think it's everyones' responsibility but theirs.