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PowerBook Performance for Java Development?

Posted by Cliff on from the real-world-numbers dept.

brasten wants to get to the core of this issue: "I'm in the market for a new development notebook. I would like to jump into the Apple world and pick up a PowerBook. However, compiling very large Java applications of course takes some time, and so raw processing speed is a factor. I have been unable to find solid data on how fast a 1.33GHz PowerBook runs against the modern x86-based notebooks. Does anybody have any information that could help me compare?"

12 of 255 comments (clear)

  1. tests by Tirel · · Score: 5, Informative

    we did some tests on this two years ago and the 1ghz ppc came up on top, about 30% behind the fastest x86. this is probably because the ppc has a larger l1 cache and a better fpu (java uses exclusively floats, even when you declare type integer).

    However that was 2 years ago and these days a x86 machine is probably faster (and cheaper if this is a concern.)

    1. Re:tests by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
      java uses exclusively floats, even when you declare type integer


      Eh? What's with all them iadd, isub, iXXX bytecodes, then?

      No, Java has different bytecodes for floats, doubles, integers and longs. How the JVM actually handles those bytecodes is, of course, a matter of implementation (as long as it conforms to the spec).

      However, all JVMs I've seen so far handle ints and floats differently. Using floats exclusively, as you claim, would be silly.
  2. My Impressions.. by rastachops · · Score: 5, Informative

    I would say that they aren't exactly speedy in compiling Java apps. I have noticed that even with small programs they can be compiled quicker on x86. I can't comment on the top of the range models but my 867Mhz G4 12" Powerbook does noticably take longer.

    In saying this, I *much* prefer developing on Mac OS X compared to Windows. The document centric layout and general usability of OS X makes the whole process a lot more enjoyable.

    At the end of the day I'd go into an Apple store and ask to test one out. Try it with some big project and judge for yourself.

    1. Re: My Impressions.. by LippyTheLip · · Score: 5, Informative

      In my experience, a G4 processor "feels" about as fast as a P3 or P4 with twice its clock speed. Floating point and integer benchmarks usually come out this way too. Integer benchmark running in Java (client) here. Of course, the complie speed will also be affected by the compiler, but Apple's XCode and Project Builder have a pretty good reputation, I think.

    2. Re: My Impressions.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually they have a spectacularly lousy reputation

      Among lonely Slashdot posters, maybe. Among professionals, the opposite is true.

      ProjectBuilder was woeful

      While Project Builder had its share of annoying bugs and omissions, it was still the best IDE available at the time for Objective C development, period-end-of-paragraph.

      Xcode is now the best IDE available for Objective C development.

      still noticeably slower than CodeWarrior

      Xcode compiles are nearly as fast as CodeWarrior. When you figure in how much nicer Xcode is to use, it's a wash. When you calculate in the benefit of distributed compiling even just between two machines, Xcode wins big.

      Xcode does have distributed builds and MP support, but they probably won't be of much use if you're working on a single PowerBook.

      All he has to do is get on a LAN with at least one other Mac. Poof: compile times drop significantly.

  3. Go for it by Sixtus · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work for a very large international company as a senior java developer. When I decided to take a sabbatical for master studies, I had to turn in my IBM A31p.

    Between semesters, I returned to work and since my employer was unwilling to buy a new machine for just 2 months (my laptop was reassigned, they offered me a P3 desktop for a roaming job), I brought in my personal PB17, which I bought for my studies. I already knew, that it's a fine Java development platform, but I was unsure about a large J2EE project in a Windows company.

    Integration went very smoothly (Of course it runs Exchange, yes Ms Office no prob) and even Bea WebLogic (assign the right jdk) and Together/J was a no-brainer.

    Eclipse is a tad slower, but after getting used to it (key assignments and such), I'm just as productive as on my old Windows Laptop.

    Summary: If you like Unix and need a laptop, there is no way around a PowerBook. Integration into the Windows world is easy. All the Java tools are available and run w/o problems at acceptable speed. Just make sure you have enough RAM, 1G is minimum for a Java-Pro.

    Enjoy, I don't think you ever want to go back. Powerbooks are addictive.

  4. Speed vs. usability by hemanman · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've recently bought a 12" iBook G4 800MHz, and it preforms directly like a Pentium III 800MHz with recent Java versions, which I found out using a Java dhrystones benchmark program to test it. The iBook scores 97.8 where the PC scores 99.2.

    I've tested a lot of different platforms with that program, and it seems to follow SpecInt/Float benchmarks pretty well, if you look on how it compares to different systems, eg. a Sun SparcStation 5 scores around 4.9, making it 20 times slower than a Pentium III 800MHz PC, which also SpecInt/Float benches show.

    So the PB at 1.33GHz will run like a PIII 1.33GHz, and you'll have to make up with yourself if thats sufficient for you. A P4 2.6GHz with HT scores around 216.

    Also, if you decide to buy an iBook, be aware that it CAN'T run with an external monitor in any higher resolution than it's internal LCD, something my old Dell latitude from 1997 does with no problems at all :-(

    I don't know if that is true for the PB, but it sucks bigtime. I'm very disapointed with my iBook on that fact, along with some other assembly issues that other people with iBook G4 also seems to have.

    If you're going to spend most of your time in Eclipse, I'd save the extra bucks and go for a PC.

    -H

  5. Powerbook vs iBook by rmlane · · Score: 5, Informative
    Powerbooks have twice th L2 cache of iBooks (512k vs 256k), which will improve performance by a few percent, perhaps more. In addition the RAM is PC2700 instead of PC2100, which will help as well, and they have faster graphics cards.

    P'books can happily display a very high resolution desktop on an external display, and will properly span the desktop over the two displays.

    If you're willing to do hairy firmware hacks, this feature can be added to an iBook as well, but I won't point you at references, as I'm disinclined to help you bust your iBook.

    Nice to see the final sentence though: I'd save the extra bucks and go for a PC. Yes, iBooks are cheaper than the equivalent PC laptop, and P'Books are generally the same or less than the PC equivalents.

  6. xcode my friend... by paranoidsim · · Score: 5, Informative

    The powerbook is perfect for java development or any development for that matter, why? Directly from http://developer.apple.com/tools/macosxtools.html:
    Working Fast

    The distributed build feature leads Xcode's performance technology lineup. Using Rendezvous, Xcode can farm out your project's compilation to idle desktop machines or even an Xserve build farm, drastically reducing compile time. Enabling near-instant turnaround for bug fixes, Xcode's Fix and Continue feature lets developers change code while the app continues to run.

    Rendezvous, hard to spell, a pleasure to use.

  7. Re:Benchmark scores by AusG4 · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is very interesting.

    One of our contractors at work was saying to me the other day that when I/O is taken into consideration, they're seeing speed on their PowerBooks outclass their AMD MP servers... they narrowed it down to Apple's implementation of the JDK just doing a very good job moving large amounts of data around.

    The real trouble here is that it's so hard to say "platform X" is faster, when it really depends on the application being executed. You might find that the PowerBook is a great machine for your first project, but your second project which is less I/O and more CPU intensive doesn't run as well.

    I tend to think that ultimately, you can never have the fastest platform at -all- the tasks you want to perform when developing, so the best bet is to buy what you're most comfortable using and be aware of the strengths of your target platform when developing. With Java being cross-platform, this is more difficult because you may be deploying on a range of end-user machines.

    Sigh... the perils of an open world. :)

    --
    bash-3.00$ uname -a
    SunOS panda 5.10 Generic sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-2
  8. Re:Java and misc. development on Mac by pittnat · · Score: 5, Informative

    but don't buy the RAM from Apple, buy the computer with minimal ram, and upgrade later. Apple charges exorbitant prices for its RAM upgrades.

  9. Wait for g5 Notebooks by oobob · · Score: 5, Informative

    It was reported that Apple was having trouble getting g5s into powerbook because of the immense heat dissipation and power consumption. But with the 90nm version of the chip, these problems *should* be solved.

    IBM is already claiming a massive power cut. Check The Register. My advice? Certainly wait for the next product cycle, and if you can, wait for a second revision g5.

    Oobob