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Kazaa Offices Raided
rj writes "ZDNet Australia is reporting the Music Industry Piracy Investigations (MIPI) this morning raided the offices of Kazaa owners, Sharman Networks, along with P2P company Brilliant Digital Entertainment, and the homes of key executives. Background on prosecution of copyright music in Australia over P2P is also available."
Did they think they had a slew of mp3s sitting around on cds in their homes? I know that raiding the offices and homes of execs is fairly common in accounting scandals and the like, but this seems a bit overkill.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
How is Kazaa to blame for the transfer of pirated media across its networks? Should we shutdown the alleys because people sell drugs there? Ridiculous. I hope the MIPI gets screwed in the courts for this one.
Well, who's going to stop Billionares with cops?
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
At last, someone has finally gotten in trouble for bundling spyware in their products!
-All your offices are belong to us*
*with Aussie strong accent, plz.
Regards,
jdif
Let's overcome our weakness.
I shall go and tell the indestructible man that someone plans to murder him.
Ok, this sounds a lot more like a police state than anything the Patriot Act allows (at least in the letter of the law and not its interpretation). Raiding homes in addition to business sites? For what, IP infringement?
.au slashdotters get off saying that the US is a police state. What bollix and hypocricy.
What kind of freedoms do these goons get, anyway, when they raid? Do they take everything, bash down doors, and the like, as the article implies (and as would likely occur under the Patriot Act)?
If this kind of thing is valid, I don't see where so many
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
MIPI just got confused. They didn't realize that a file sharing network didn't include physical files.
Besides, with a name like MIPI, could you really stay mad at them for that long?
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
Third of Nine
Well, um, yes.
I am guessing that throughout the world, the different recording associations got into a contest to see who could become the most Nazi in their tactics. Until now, RIAA had the lead. To counter this, the RIAA will probably round up all of the file traders into camps. This will allow them to win.
Yes, stopping Kazaa will end music piracy in Australia. Because nobody has ever heard of
None of which look like they're going away.
WARNING: If accidentally read, induce vomiting.
Trillionaires with Mafia support? (I mean Mafia backing, not people who threaten to make you sleep with the fishes unless you reboot your PC before ringing)
The words "deckchairs", "rearranging" and "Titanic" spring to mind. Kazaa may be today's Napster, but unless I'm very much mistaken, P2P is just as popular as in the Napster days. The **AA can shut it down and it won't make the slightest bit of difference. I'm sure the big sharers were making plans to move to a different P2P network anyway, what with the lawsuits flying round.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
-John
The ZDNet article points out that if all the "pirated" tracks in Australia were purchased for $A0.99, then the record companies would be $2b better off.
As of now, my understanding is that Apple sells tracks for $US0.99, and is in pretty close to a breakeven state for iTunes (this may have changed recently, as surely the sheer volume going through iTunes would cause them to move into profit at some point). Regardless, it seems that $US0.99 is pretty close to the breakeven point, and you'd assume the breakeven cost in Australia would be no lower than that given the population is so small - let's cut the record companies some slack and assume $US0.90 is the breakeven point for online music sales in Australia.
$A0.99 translates to $US0.76. Now, since it costs $US0.90 to provide a downloadable music track, Kazaa is actually *saving* the record companies $US0.14 per downloaded track. By my calculation, the 850,000 tracks downloaded via Kazaa haved saved Australian record companies $US119,000 in providing that service.
What's that? Bogus use of statistics, you say?...
I thought only the cops could performs raids! Thank god this is in australia....if Fritz Hollings has his way we will probably have special music industy SWAT teams roaming the country soon.
Sherman Networks would be bloody stupid to have anything illegal (music/software/etc) on any of their computers and I really doubt they had anything.
This just seems like the MIPI along with the rest of the record industry is trying to harass Sherman Networks into going away. Personally I don't like/use KaZaa or any other P2P utility, but I think it's a necessary evil.
Oh well, if they should manage to close down KaZaa, there's plenty of underground alternatives for the (ab)users. Seems like wasted resources from a desperate industry.
(shot of men in riot gear overturning desks, rifling through offices and smashing computers)
Voice in aussie accent: Search engine!
(shot of Fosters can)
Voice in aussie accent: Beer!
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
The argument that this even remotely has anything to do with the patriot act is stupid. It certainly has no provisions for raiding people's homes on behalf of the record industry. The people you should be directing your anger towards is more than likely the RIAA, who's undoubtedly the puppet master for this MIPI thing.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
And I just got WAY into Australian pop music! Now I'll never get my fix.
What post? The one you're carrying inside your rusty innards!
1) Message Sending. They want to scare file traders into thinking that nobody is beyond the long reach of music executi^H^H^H^H the law. Thus stopping supposed music swapping.
.02
2) They want to see if KAZAA/Sharman are keeping track of who the heavy users are. Thus KAZAA would know about illegal file trading, and be partly liable for copyright infringement.
3) KAZAA/Sharman networks profit by looking the other way. However, if they are actively working to enhance "reliable sources" for file trading, that would look pretty bad.
4) Any inter-office memos/emails relating to the above.
It will be interesting to see exactly how private user's data really is. You would think that Sharman would (or should have) anticipated such a move by the recording industry.
just my
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Of all the subtle and not-so-subtle evils of the Patriot act, it is, at least to my knowledge, employed soley by the government/gov agencies.
This situation in Australia seems not too dissimilar to SCO busting into Linus' house with presumeably armed gov. officials and confiscating everything.
It's corporate terrorism.
... I'm using a Mac.
Wait...
I'm going to go out on a limb here and propose the following;
RIAA/MIPI/"Recording Industry" has been conducting police raids in the United States out on the streets, handing out false tickets on false pretenses, etc... This began occuring over a month ago. Since then, they have lost key decisions in the courts, both in US and Europe, and things are looking bad for them. Now, they are beginning to conduct actual raids on property under obscure laws outside of the United States - obviously an intimidation tatic for those of us in the United States.
Now... why is this good you ask?
Because the day will come when an RIAA representative will knock at my university door and demand to see recipets for all my jazz mp3's (legally and educationaly obtained) I have laying around my harddrives. When this happens, hello Supreme Court.
This series of events is giving us a very clear picture: The RIAA is a dying animal who is now lashing out in any means necessary. Non governmental agencies playing cops - be it here or austrilla - is a fundemental violation of human liberty - which is a value upheld by the UN and the World Court (which Austrilla is a member of). Not that this really matters since no one is going to do anything about it, at least right now.
Later on, we are going to see events like these help us in a completely different court though - the court of public opinion. Isn't it easy to see a Dateline episode being made of this event? Isn't it easy to connect the dots and see that the RIAA and their chums are just doing this so the average American thinks that their home could be raided by Will Smith and his men in black protecting his copyright? Isn't it easy to see that the Average American would go apeshit if the RIAA actually tried to enter their house, and they later found out it was completely against the law?
Let's return to the orignal question. Why is this good?
Because the RIAA and every incarnation of it is pushing the very lines of human rights and freedoms that have been affirmed around the globe since the end of World War II.
I have never seen America stand down in the face of a constitutional violation, never. Hell, even some of my republican friends acknowledge Roe v. Wade. Let the RIAA come and try to impose this scare tatic here in the USA. I fore one can't wait for this good thing to happen. Two days after they try to enter a house in the US (legally or illegaly) Scallia and Rehinquist will join forces and strike the RIAA back to the seventh circle of hell from which it spawned.
Be happy with the RIAA's actions - it's a sign the end is near.
- The Ever Defiant Simrook
(p/s - All spelling errors are mine and mine alone.)
'Truth' is linked in a circular relation with systems of power which produce and sustain it...
The article says they used "an Anton Pilar order - which allows a copyright holder to enter a premises to search for and seize material that breaches copyright without alerting the target through court proceedings".
Let's say they find signed confessions by each of the execs, saying they formed the company for the express purpose of allowing other people to breach copyrights. These confessions do not, themselves, breach any copyright laws. They would in fact be copyrighted by the execs themselves. Could those confessions be seized and used in court, under the Anton Pilar law?
IANAL, but this seems like an abuse of an unrelated law to get law enforcement powers for free. I believe this was already tried by their US cousins.
--Bill
I think they're hoping to find pirated or illegal ANYTHING in the executive houses or anything of Sharman's networks.
I think their plan is to do a raid and even if it turns up ONE slightly dodgy file, they're going to use that to link it with Kazaa and music piracy... which may give them a leg to stand on in court.
The issue is this: these days its pretty damn hard to find a single PC out there without one slightly dodgy file on it.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
I've started a political party which is currently looking for 500 members to get ourselves on the Federal ballot this upcoming election:
www.neteffect.org.au
If you want to have a representative in parliament who actually understands how this type of behaviour is a bad thing, and do something about it, then I recommend you visit our site and read through what we have to offer.
It's time that we Aussies had a REAL "younger generation" to represent our views instead of a 42 year old "young-un"; someone who knows what a frag is, someone who cares about our online rights and someone who understands the pickle we're in regarding current copyright/patent laws.
Oh, and someone (me of course) who's a regular Slashdot poster....
At the very least have a look at our policies and forum - I think you'll find that we're very much aiming to be a real force for change in Australia.
Visceral Psyche Films
Since when can someone search another person's property? Who is to say they did not take data or information not related directly to finding violations of law? At least if it was the police searching, you could have a court determine what is related to the specific law, and what is not. Who is to say they will not use items found unrelated to the copywrite issue, but which can still cause embarrasment, and use that information against them? It would be the equivelant of person B searching the house of person A for "copywrite violation" but finding tax records, photos of your lover, your address book of friends, etc...
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
It just goes to prove that America is not alone.
Australia also has the best judicial system that money can buy.
.
If you took off your tinfoil hat, you'd notice that government raids of people's homes, on the pretext that their company might have been abused by other people to ignore copyrights, is government by fear and threat of force: fascism. Why is the air so thick with Anonymous Cowards reeling at the charges of fascism?
--
make install -not war
In Anton Piller K.G. v. Manufacturing Processes Ltd., [1976] 1 All E.R. 779 at 782 Lord Denning stated:
"Let me say at once that no court in this land has any power to issue a search warrant to enter a man's house so as to see if there are papers or documents there which are of an incriminating nature, whether libels or infringements of copyright or anything else of the kind. No constable or bailiff can knock at the door and demand entry so as to inspect papers or documents. The householder can shut the door in his face and say, 'Get out.' That was established in the leading case of Entick v. Carrington (1765), 19 State Tr. 1029. None of us would wish to whittle down that principle in the slightest. But the order sought in this case is not a search warrant. It does not authorize the plaintiff's solicitors or anyone else to enter the defendants' premises against their will. Id does not authorize the breading down of any doors, nor the slipping in by a back door, nor getting in by an open door or window. It only authorizes entry and inspection by the permission of the defendants. The plaintiff's must get the defendants' permission. But it does do this: it brings pressure on the defendants to give permission. It does more. It actually orders them to give permission - with, I suppose, the result that if they do not give permission they are guilty of contempt of court."
As you can see, you can if you so chose deny access, but you had better have a pretty good reason.
I wish I could think of a witty Sig. Sigh!
However, the article says that the "Anton pilar order" is there to enter a premises to seize material that infringes copyright.
I don't think the police will find any material that infringes copyright in the Australian office of Sharman. I looks more like a fishing expedition and, most likely, a way to annoy Sharman. Pityfull people...
But hey, Australia has said before they would copy US patent policy when the US would ask them to do so (US did, so Australia did what was aksed), as the US is the most important trade partner for Australia. The same might apply here.
Background info:
In Belgium and France, it's possible to enter premises as well to look for patent infringement, but the party who initiates the proceedings is *not* allowed to enter the premises! Only a bailiff and often an independent expert (patent attorney to neither party) and sometimes a police officer (called Saisie Contrefac,on). Could this be a deriverative of that?
Yes, yes, a substantial portion of Kazaa and other file-sharing programs/networks are in use illegally.
However, there is also a substantial portion which is used for, among other things, advertisements, legal restores (example: a long time ago, I used a file sharing network to backup an mp3 which I legally owned... the original had been corrupted during a backup to a bad CD; I lost a lot of data, but most of it didn't turn out to be important, luckily), and semi-legal file transfers (where the host might be in, say, Japan where the file is illegal, but the downloader is in the US where there is no copyright and is therefore legal).
With all due respect, sir, I think you're focusing on the negative side of file sharing.
~UP
Eat the Path.
and some studies have shown that file-sharing may actually contribute to greater expenditure by participants on legitimate music.
I wonder where these studies came from? Saying file-sharing encourages the purchase of legitimate music is like saying hookers encourage fidelity in marriage.:P
Harpo Tunnel Syndrome--my wrist feels funny.
and we are already paying a percentage on storage media to artists even though some of us don't even download MP3s!!!
We already payed for that music already through our taxes and hidden fees.
Where does it end?
It's time we cut the free money flow to these thieves.
Michael Malone from iinet has posted on the whirlpool forums saying that iinet was one of the four ISPs raided and that no subscriber information was asked for. What were they after then? A rumour I read is that some RIAA infringement notices were returned with a kind 'go to hell' and the raids are in response to this.
/. a hard time about their draconian laws and the RIAA acting like thugs. I have to say that I'm sad to see this sort of thing going on in my own country.
I know we give the Americans here on
Australian law allows a warrant to be issued providing that a Justice of the Peace has been convinced that there is reasonable grounds for suspecting that there is evidence of a crime on the premises.
I don't know how this compares with the US justice system and whether this was only granted by the patriot act (I doubt it). This has been the case for many years.
This is an invetigation of kazaa and it is reasonable that police be able to investigate suspected crimes wherever the evidence may be, otherwise criminals could conceal evidence in their homes and be totally immune to investigation.
When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
Well,
This has happened before in the USA and other countries, too. For example Cult of Scientology used to be famous for its raids to the critics' homes (Zenon's case,other cases
The situation is also getting worse in Europe, because the upcoming IPR enforcement directive will greatly strenghen Anton Pillar orders in all member states (unless we will manage to mount enough public pressure to stop the process, which is unlikely but not totally impossible - contact your MEPS today!)
V.
NOBODY expects the US Patriot Act!!!....
...and now for something completely different...
I finally have a post to respond to in which I can pontificate on the freedom of the press clause in the US Constitution.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
'Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom...of the press;...'
I argue that the freedom of the press includes the right of any citizen, or group of citizens to own a press. At the time that the US Constitution was written the only means (i.e. technology) for communicating with a truly mass audience was the printing press.
Historically, only the Crown had the *right* to own a press. The Crown might *permit* others to operate a press subject to prior restraint, but the Crown controlled the uses of all presses.
In order to have freedom of the press individuals, or groups of individuals must necessarily be able to own, and/or have access to the technology that physically, and infrastructurely allows he/she/them to communicate with a mass audience.
Thus, it must logically follow that the freedom of the press must include the right to own the means of communicating with a mass audience.
New technology that provides the ability to communicate with a mass audience has historically, over time, been encompassed by the notion of the freedom of the press with regard to ownership.
The music industry in trying to advance its copyright claims via the elimination of various channels through which copyrighted materials flow illegally. This runs afoul of the freedom of the press.' That is the notion that a technology which allows for the communication between a person, and a mass audience is covered by the freedom of the press. Ultimately, copyright claims must be superseded by the right of the individual to have at their disposal the means of communicating with a mass audience, i.e. 'freedom of the press.'
"Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
In addition, hundreds of thousands of music files and terabytes worth of pirated DivX movies were confiscated on the RAID at the Sharman office. Kazaa is essentially shut down as there are no files available to be shared now that they're all in police custody. *rolls eyes*.
What's the point of raiding the offices of a software company who just makes the P2P client? They're not committing the crime!
Don't squeeze the Sharman
Perhaps Kazaa should raid the record industry executives and represenatives for copies of Kazaa Lite? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
A quick Google search seems to indicate that this Anton Pillar Order thing started in the UK, and has spread to at least Canada, Australia, Israel, and Trinidad & Tobago. These orders do, in fact, allow private citizens to enter another private citizen's domain (I have not yet determined whether there is any law enforcement oversight to guarantee that evidentiary chains are followed and that the scope of the order is not exceeded).
Note that an Anton Pillar Order is a court order, so this is not just at the searcher's whim. However, prior to having one's premises searched, there is no opportunity for the searchee to lodge any sort of counter-claim, since their foreknowledge of the search is not required.
Even the Howard Bermans and Fritz Hollingses of the United States haven't proposed laws this off-kilter. One wonders whether this type of law would pass "Due Process" scrutinity here-- obviously law enforcement doesn't need to notify the subject of an investigation or raid in advance. That's well-established. But do we have any precedent saying that a private citizen, even holding court order has the right to perform such an act pro se? Any lawyers, paralegals, or armchair legislators care to comment?
I do not have a signature
Is this moded +5 Funny, because we all have given in and realised that this is the future?
I mean, it's not funny! It's not even unlikely with the development we see worldwide these days (weak goverments, mighty corporations).
I'd give this post +5, Apocalyptical yet realistic, but for some odd reason that moderation doesn't exist... Oh. And now I can't moderate.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
Sarcasm, it's what's for dinner. Guess you missed the dinner bell.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
Its interesting that MIPI waited until just after the MGM v Grokster case to request and search.
Probably my tinfoil hat, but I wonder if a failure to find anything would have been detrimental to the Appeals Court case? The RIAA attorney tried to push the point that Grokster were complicit in "trafficking in pirated goods", which the judge duly scolded them for, as abusive.
The timing just seems a little funny?
How about the people who make the billionares? If people would only stop buying music!
...///...
Pirates of the Net
Here's how it would go down at my house:
{knock knock} {sound of door being bashed open} Hullo? I have an Anton Pillar order thingie and I'm here to sieze stuff...
{Blam, Blam, Blam}
Really? I have a variety of legal firearms all protected by the 2nd Ammendment and the right to protect my home and property. Now what was that about some sort of legal order?
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
and get shot the instant you set your first foot on the premises. No vigilant citizen should be expected to allow this madness. If the government does not protect you and your property from private intervention, heck, if it even endorses private break-in as similar to law enforcement with a warrant and due process unter public scrutiny, then it is the right and the duty of all law abiding citizens to withstand and prevent these actions and even if it sounds provocative: by all means necessary.
The United States of America have a long tradition of people's rights, human rights, democracy and personal freedom. If someone is undermining the very foundations of this country, if they try to finally corrupt the entire state starting with the legislative process through bought senators, bypassing the judicial branch through their own actions and even replacing the executive branch with their own mobsters, it is time for every citizen to react. Form militias, arm yourselves. This is exactly what the second amendmendment was created for: empowering the citizen to protect himself from unwarranted searches, abuse of governemntal powers and the failure of the offical system. Don't tolerate private companies violating private property! Don't tolerate companies who subvert the legal process! Don't tolerate the corruption of the land of the free!
And please remember the following sentences: "I don't agree with what you said, but I'd fight to my death for your right to say it!".
I don't endorse the breach of copyright or anything like that. Even if Sharman Networks did violate this law or another, I will not hesitate to fight with them or anyone else who is denied his constitutional rights and due process over a non-violent, non-capital and non-life threatening crime.
(Even if it sounds provocative or flamebait, it is not meant as such. I truly believe in the law and the constitution as the only rightful way to run a country. Posting logged-in to emphase this, even if the TIA and the rest of the three-letter agency scum will have a field day with their eternal databases. And yes, I reinstate: this comment is about about militant actions against the enemies of the constitution and yes I do make a call to arms against attempts to corrupt the last ones of our private rights.)
By the people - for the people. Nothing else!
A lot of porn companies apparently put samples on the file sharing networks as ads. Some apparently even include popups of their sites embedded in wmv's.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...