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TiVo and DirecTV in a Cellular-Only Household?
Balthisar
asks: "Like so many others, my wife and I have recently made the move to pure mobile telephone use, and have disconnected the landline permanently. Today, I turned on the TiVo and received a stern warning that only three days of the program guide remained! I screwed up. Anyone have a good emergency way of refreshing the program guide while I wait for my TiVo networking card to come in? An additional concern is DirecTV: I never use Pay Per View, but it's not connected, either. Any horror stories about not having your DirecTV connected to a phone line? If you don't have any advice, at least take this as a cautionary tale to make a good checklist before taking the leap of eliminating your terrestrial line!" This topic was handled in a previous article over 2 years ago. What suggestions do you have for others, that find themselves in this position?
I dunno about DirectTV, or Tivo, but I have DishNetwork and it doesn't mind not being able to dial out. I leave a phone line hooked up to it so that we have the CallerID-on-TV feature, but since I don't use PPV and am the suspicious type, I've effectively disabled its dial-out capability by setting the "dial this number for an outside line" to a "4". Six months, no probs.
As for Tivo's guide, maybe I'm missing something but is it that big a deal? I've never used a Tivo but I'd guess that the guide you get from your satellite TV receiver ought to have most of the same functions. Granted, it won't guess at shows you might like to watch, but then again that 'feature' leads only to bad standup comedy jokes which reference Will and Grace, in my experience...
Perfectly Normal Industries
DirecTV does not require a phone line, unless you use pay-per-view options. It gets the program guide updates over the air. If your phone has an accessory to provide dial tone, you'd be able to use that to allow it to phone home. However, you'll probably have to tell them about the phone number, as they don't seem to like units reporting in from the phone number that's not associated with the account.
As you've figured out, TiVo gets its updates over the phone line. If you have an integrated TiVo/DirectTV receiver, I'm not sure what happens in that case. I've got the original, and it can only do it over the phone line (not including network mods).
Take your Tivo to somebody else's house and hook it up to their phone line, then force it to make a call. It will download like 2 weeks worth of data.
It's not a problem. You'll get a warning every time you press your tivo button that says something like "It's been 175 days since you've dialed up" but unless you want to do pay-per-view it simply doesn't matter. At least it hasn't mattered to me. The Direct Tivo sends programming data to you machine via the satellite.
Heil Sig! -Rob
I have a tivo and am cellular only. I took it to a friend's house, left it overnight to update, and brought it home. I have hooked up a usb->ethernet adapter, and run it through a router to my broadband connection. The latest tivo software (downloaded while it was hooked up overnight at my friends) supports usb ethernet natively.
It works perfectly, with the only hassle being that initial setup.
I don't know about Tivo, but I once worked for a national store that sold DirecTV units. We were told by the DirecTV people that they often detected pirated units by them calling from an unauthorized number, or not calling at all. Now obviously they also knew which machines had hacked (or stolen) cards somehow and they would somehow disable those machines (sounded like some sort of bad BIOS flash from what the DirecTV representatives said). They asked us to be sure to tell the customers that the units NEEDED to be plugged in.
I was skeptical of their ability to do this, but we did have a person try to return a dead unit shortly thereafter and we knew he had been trying to purchase units from us so he could steal the cards and then return them when our electronics associates were at lunch or off.
But that was several years ago already... Still, if it was me, I'd give them a call just to be sure.
And phone line or not, you can always buy your Pay-Per-View shows by going to the DirecTV website.
I had mine disconnected for a while and I slowly lost programing I paid for. I ended up having to call tech support, they said that it needed to be connected to verify the card was still in use.
Devise, Repair, Solve, Build
I presume that you have a Series 1 TiVo given the 9thtee card. So do I, but since I don't need anything more than daily updates, I use a serial cable to hook mine up to my Linux box (Windows boxes work too). Not bad for $5.
Responding to your post, in no particular order...
/. readers.
Ask Slashdot is a section for people to pose their questions to the Slashdot community. Slashdot is made up of, in large part, a tech-savy and geek-indentifying community. I'd be willing to bet that a higher percentage of Slashdot readers have TiVo and/or ReplayTV than the general population. So this seemingly narrow question that, on the surface, would not be helpful to anyone is probably of interest to a large number of
Likewise, those lucky enough to play with tech-related toys are likely to have more money to throw around. Again, compare Slashdot's readers to the general population, and I'll be you'll find a higher income among the Slashdot population. So while saying that the poster owns a TiVo and ReplayTV may cause envy in some Slashdotters eyes (mine included), it probably isn't enough to cause any fits of jealousy over this damnable soul who is clearly of a higher social and econimic standing than the rest of us slobs.
Finally, I very much doubt that the manual has instructions for not using a phone line. My guess is it simply says that TiVo requires a phone line. But that would seem to not be the case. And Ask Slashdot could be considered "checking a website..." The poster is asking for Slashdot's collective knowledge on the subject. Consulting Google is the only valid point you bring up. Plugging in tivo and "no phone line" brings up MOSTLY ads, but a couple of valid-looking links.
But Ask Slashdot isn't meant to only to give the origonal poster an answer (hopefully) to their question, but to provoke discussion and inform others. So someone with a unique experience might post here, and only here. Their knowledge may be absent from every single webpage out there, and a Google search could be useless. Or maybe I was thinking about getting a TiVo, but know I don't have a phoneline for it to work with. After reading this thread, I might learn that I definitely can or cannot buy a TiVo and expect it to work.
Or, as someone who doesn't have and doesn't plan on getting a TiVo, I may just be curious about the problems of living without a land-line. A friend of mine recently killed her phone line, and I'm curious how others have dealt with possibel problems. Dealing with TiVo and ReplayTV is only a small subset of the larger problem of living without a land-line. So I'm interested in what people have to say, not only about TiVo and ReplayTV specifically, but about living without a land-line in general.
The "Your problems aren't important enough so we'll ignore them" argument has always seemed shallow to me. The fact of the matter is the editors (for whatever reason) decided to post this question to Ask Slashdot. Maybe they were currious themselves. Maybe it was just a slow news day. Maybe the specific goal was to piss someone like you off to the point of posting a knee-jerk, thoughtless response to prove some point about the nature of Slashdot. We'll probably never know.
But clearly a sarcastic comlaint is the right sollution...
-Trillian
He seems to be doing quite well at researching this. He is asking on a forum with lots of people who are knowledgable about all techy toys.
That's 'Fahrenheit 451' Mr. Holier Than Thou no TV guy
If you need sugjestions I would recomend Farenhite 451 or for a longer title take a look at Crime and Punishment.
If you're going to pretend to be an intellectual, you might try learning to spell the titles of the books you are recommending (i.e., "Fahrenheit 451"). You could also try spelling "suggestions" and "recommend" properly and you could use commas where they are required.
I am too dumb to know how my audio-visual equipment works and feel it is easier to write this to slashdot than to research anything. Please tell me what to do 'cause I can't be bothered to read the manual, check a website, or consult google. Oh, and I am also so damn rich (bling bling), I have both a TiVo and a ReplayTV. Please help me out, I am in such a bind.
One of the benfits of asking technical questions on Slashdot is that almost always there's someone there who can point you to an even better source of information such as Tivo Community.
I have a Comcast DVR and it's only $10 a month. I think tivo is $15 and you have to buy equipment. See if your digital cable provider has DVR Equipment. It does not require internet/phone line at all.
http://www.tivocommunity.com
Enjoy!
It's pretty easy to set up your cell phone to have TiVo call through it. Just get an adaptor for your cell phone. I've seen adaptors that allow you to plug your cell phone into a laptop modem, and use it to dial up. Just plug the phone cord out from the TiVo and into the cell phone adaptor, then use that to make short calls to update your tv guide or whatever. Don't know if it would work for sure (never tried it myself), but it's worth a shot. My phone came with an adaptor that plugs into the mini jack I plug my earplug into, and has a standard phone jack on the other side. I'd imagine you could get such a device at radio shack or something.
If you can read this then I forgot to check "Post Anonymously"
With my bride picking up a mobile phone as well, our house is getting ready to drop the landline. The only device in the house that uses it is my DirectTV PVR, so I've started the process by giving DirectTV a call last month.
The service rep said the PVR had to have a phone connection. I tried qualifying my situation - noting that I don't order any PPV and the guide and updates come through the dish. No matter, they were insistent I needed one. Yah, right - been four months since I plugged the phone cord in... Not sure I believe them.
On the off chance they really do need a phone connection, I'm looking for a plan B as well. I have a cable modem, so I figured the next step is VoIP. There are some packages out there, but it looks like most will set me back $15/month minimum- not a huge cost savings over the $23 or so(?) I play now. They did not seem to have issue with me changing numbers, however, so this is an option. Like to find a pay-by-use VoIP service, if anyone has seen such a beastie.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Ok. This is a very interesting situation. I have been reading up on DirecTiVo "hacking" for some time now, and it seems as if your quandry falls right under the legal justification for what these sites are trying to do. According to them, their software/hacks/mods are for people in situations just like yours, and not those who are simply stealing satellite service (and therefore, would not want to connect the units to the phone. If its hooked to the phone then it has the ability to communicate two-way, if its not...then its just a one way connection) So, go to deal database and check out their forums. By downloading some linux images, and taking the drive out of your unit (voiding its warranty) flashing it with the downloaded image, you can disable the units ability to call out.
Or...just get a coupler, remember those, from the 1980's
"Once upon a time men were lions and machines were mice, but since it was so long ago, now its twice upon a time."
I guess you haven't tried to get any credit (cards or otherwise) since you went cellular only. A friend just went through this problem. The "great" USA Patriot Act has made it illegal for companies issuing credit to do so for anyone who does not have a landline telephone number.
That said - I cannot find it explicitly in the act , after a quick review. (EPIC.org). But it may be that I missed it, or that the details are in some resulting regulation, or that that is the interpretation of the credit issuer.
My buddy was trying to buy furniture, and got turned down even tho he has an excellent credit record. After doing the digging the credit issuer told him that they could not issue because he gave them only a mobile phone number.
I'd love to hear about your experience should you apply for new credit.
True friends are hard to come by... I need more money. - Calvin
Any sales rep or tech rep will tell you that the unit has to be hooked up to a phone line - I've been hearing this from DirecTV for years, regarding my original RCA DirecTV units, TiVo units, and TiVo2 after DirecTV bought them out. Apart from the initial setup, I have never ever had a phone line connected. It's been seven years this March! If I call to change programming, sometimes they will mention it, and say something like "if the phone isn't hooked up in 30 days you'll lose your service" but it's a lie. I suspect the phone line is the only way they have of gathering their aggregate viewer data (like how many people backed up to watch the Super Boob incident).
K
Well,that about says it. I hooked up to a phone once to try to get some pay-per-view, but it wouldn't even try. Never got it to work, so after a week or so I disconnected it.
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
I presume you have a Series 1 DirecTiVo, otherwise the network card you bought won't work. If your DirecTiVo is a brand new one, it is Series 2 and will not accept the network card you listed.
As others have said, there's no need to have a DirecTiVo connected to the phone line except in one specific case: software upgrades. Software upgrades are always sent over the dialup modem, not over the satellite. There is a software release for DirecTiVos going out right now that fixes a significant bug (the TiVo always reports that there's only a day or two of guide data, even though there's far more). The bug is only cosmetic though and doesn't cause any functionality loss, according to most users. If your TiVo software is version 3.1.0b or less (Series 1) or 3.1.1b or less (Series 2) you'll need this new version. The version number is on the System Information screen.
In your case, I'd wait a few weeks until the software is completely rolled out to all users. Then take your TiVo over to a friends and force it to dial in right then (there's a selection in the TiVo phone setup to do this). This call will take about an hour and download the new software.
Others have mentioned tivocommunity.com, excellent resource for stuff like this.
Same here, over 370 days for me. I have noticed that the DirecTivo has been giving me the message that I only have two days of program guide left. However, since it has given me this message for over a month and still works, I am not particularly worried about it.
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.
That's a known bug which has also shown up on our DirecTiVo -- even though our line is plugged in. I can't find the TiVo Community Forum thread that discusses it at the moment, though.
(Putting on the dad cap) Doing nothing is always an option. This case sounds more like an issue of bad planning, rather than a technological one. You could buy a wired phone to cellular adapter (such as the Dock N Talk), but why spend all that money when your ethernet adapter is arriving soon? Why didn't you buy your ethernet adapter sooner or hang onto the landline until all of your communication needs were met?
As a TiVo owner myself, I can say with confidence that not having the service available for a day or two is not a make or break issue, but it could have been prevented by simple planning.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
You shouldn't need a phone line
I have DISHnetwork and TiVO. The DISHnetwork devices don't need to be hooked up to the phone line. They get their program info over the air.
One of them is hooked up to a regular TiVO, and we use wireless networking to get the updated program guides.
My experience with DirecTV and the phone line is that is establishes a sort-of two way communication. The satellite system by itself is one way. They can send program guide updates AS WELL AS smart card software updates via the satellite stream. That's how they get those hacked cards. They can change the software that runs on the smart card...via the satellite stream. They issue read/write commands to the smart card that contains the program that decrypts the stream. Anybody remember "Back Sunday" Do research on that and that will explain. Try This article I could go on but it would turn into a primer on how satellite encryption works.
The phone is used for reporting PPV and other stats. Have your phone line plugged into your receiver now? Supposedly if you unplug it and buy a PPV, you won't receive a bill for that PPV until you plug it back in. I received a bill after my receiver had been unplugged and purchases had been made w/o the line being plugged in. The line was restored a month later and a bill showed up for the PPV.
As far as your Tivo guide, sounds like you have received plenty of advice telling you to use the network card and some mods to get it working over the net.
I have called DirecTV NUMEROUS times to change programming and other things and they have never said anything to me about my phone line not being plugged in and it has been over a year since it was last plugged in!!! Good Luck. IMHO.
My experience with DirecTV and the phone line is that is establishes a sort-of two way communication. The satellite system by itself is one way. They can send program guide updates AS WELL AS smart card software updates via the satellite stream. That's how they get those hacked cards. They can change the software that runs on the smart card...via the satellite stream. They issue read/write commands to the smart card that contains the program that decrypts the stream. Anybody remember "Back Sunday" Do research on that and that will explain. I could go on but it would turn into a primer on how satellite encryption works.
The phone is used for reporting PPV and other stats. Have your phone line plugged into your receiver now? Supposedly if you unplug it and buy a PPV, you won't receive a bill for that PPV until you plug it back in. I received a bill after my receiver had been unplugged and purchases had been made w/o the line being plugged in. The line was restored a month later and a bill showed up for the PPV.
As far as your Tivo guide, sounds like you have received plenty of advice telling you to use the network card and some mods to get it working over the net. I have called DirecTV NUMEROUS times to change programming and other things and they have never said anything to me about my phone line not being plugged in and it has been over a year since it was last plugged in!!! Good Luck. IMHO.
Satellite internet doesn't need a phone line anymore. The service is 2way for both Direcway and Starband. I think Direcway still has one way service, but they don't sell it anymore as far as I know.
DirecTV and Dish probably won't do that however. Not worth the cost of installing transmitters for what they'd use it for.
If you only have 1 DirecTV receiver then it's true, you don't have to have it connected to a land-based telephone line. BUT, if you have multiple DirecTV receivers in your home, then you MUST connect them all to a telephone jack in your house or EACH of the receivers will be charged the full monthly subscription price. So, let's say you have 3 DirecTV receivers in your house and you've signed up for the $39.99 per month DirecTV package...if you don't connect any of the receivers to a telephone jack then the total monthly price would be, 3 receivers times $39.99 for a total of approx. $120 per month!!! If you connect all of your receivers to a phone jack then DirecTV only charges you $4.99 for the second and third receiver. I can tell you for a fact that this is what they do. DishNetwork on the other hand doesn't have this policy. DishNetwork does NOT require you to connect any of your receivers to a phone jack, and they will only charge $4.99 per month for each additional receiver. So, in summary, if you have only one receiver, you won't have any problem with either DishNetwork or DirecTV as far as not having them hooked up to a phone jack, but if you have more than one receiver in your house, then DirecTV pretty much forces you to connect all of them to a phone jack or you'll pay a huge monthly subscription price for each receiver. Hope this helps.
If you're going to pretend to be a legitimate Slashdot poster, you might try not karma whoring and not being an arrogant prick. I hope this suggestion helps your sorry ass.
I'm increasingly tempted to get rid of my mobile phone, too.
If you do that, how the heck is Tivo supposed to find out how many times you rewound during the superbowl half-time show?!
But just in case, let's state the obvious: If you're using a Series2 Standalone TiVo, just get a USB network connector and plug the system into your home network.
Subject covers it.
Your DirecTV only needs the connection if you try to order PPV stuff directly through the box. You can still call them up, order that way, and the box will get the approval signal over the air.
Your Tivo, though, needs to contact the service to download updates and guide data. All Tivo's with USB ports (Even Series 1 Tivo's, I have one in my bedroom) have USB-connected Ethernet supported once you get your software revision to 4.0+. Once you're on Ethernet (wired or wireless, both are supported, see Tivo's website for supported hardware), you can use your broadband service to connect to the service and download Guide data and software updates.
The problem is, though, that I have not seen an out-of-the-box Tivo with 4.0+ software - all 3 that I've purchased in the last year are running in various stages of 3.* software, and had to dial in at least once to grab the new software version. You might want to call Tivo and see if they have a suggestion, or maybe even take your Tivo to a friend's house and force it to connect over a night or two to download the 4.0 software before taking it home and hooking it into your home network.
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
Assuming you have a cable or DSL setup at home, you can have Tivo connect directly to its servers over the internet via the serial port. The tivo came with a serial cable, but I made my own because it wasn't long enough. I plugged it into my Linux box's serial port, and set up PPP so that tivo could "see" the internet and do the direct connect. There's a special phone number you have to set tivo to dial to (something like #,211 or something weird like that). This is all discussed heavily on tivocommunity.com. Search for "serial PPP".
This doesn't belong here. Go to Tivocommunity.com or the Tivo dealdatabase forums. This information is well covered.
If you have an older DirecTivo (series 1) like I do, buy a turbonet adapter from 9thtee.com and install it per directions. You then put in a special code into the phone number field and your DirecTivo will use your Internet connection instead of a phone line.
I don't know if that will work for PPV (I never buy PPV)
If you have newer DirecTivo models, I believe you can get a USB/ethernet port for them in follow a similar process.
Evolution: love it or leave it
DirecTV tivos get their guide data from the satellite, not the phone line. Normal tivos need a phone line, but can be modified (in the case of series 1 units, with a card from 9thtee.com, or for series 2 units, a USB ethernet adapter) to use ethernet.
You can use a DirecTivo (as other posters have pointed out) without a phone line, as long as you don't need to do any PPV stuff.
TiVo gets updates from satelitte signal. It must dial-in to home base to make sure your account is paid up. DirecTV wants you to have a phone line pulledin all the time becasue they want you yo oder PPV. You do not need the phone line at all.
My tip for you to get updated beofe your NIC gets to you is to find a few super long phone cables and run them over to your neibors house. Buy him/her a 6 pack in exchange of using his/her phone for a few seconds. Toll free and all.
Now you will have another 2 weeks before it needs to check in again.
Apparently it's due to the "half-epoch" UNIX bug - first time 2^31 bits are required for the epoch, which can cause overflow bugs when not used correctly. It's supposed to be harmless w/ the Tivo - just reports wrong program guide messages...
I have the same setup at home. Without a phone line you dont get pay per view or "showcases" nor suggestions (which I think are worthless) but everything that matters works fine.
I spoke to customer service about this once and they just said not to worry about it. You may want to do one phone call to make sure there aren't any upgrades waiting for you, but for the most part directv isn't doing anything with the directivos.
I used to work at DirecTV at _their_ call center (hence the anonymous cowardice), and here's why you need the phone line:
1) for DirecTV Interactive stuff (you know, the "i" that would sometimes appear over a show, so you could see "special content" (read: commercials), or the Interactive Weather Channel.
2) DirecTivo, but that can be done with the aforementioned Ethernet adapter... and most the stuff is downloaded via satellite anyway.
3) Pay Per View. and this one's the biggie. STMS (the system DirecTV used for adding users before they switched to a gay frontend for it) has a registration page for each individual reciever. this page has the listing for the access card number (which is tied to the receiver's serial number), the serial number, and the System ID (which is better off not given, but most people give it.).
On this page is a little flag for "ALLOW PPV", and the Entertainment Consultant asks if you have a phone line plugged in. whether you do or not, tell them YES. users are rated by their PPV amounts (i.e. the average person has a $49 limit per account, but the rich people (yes, celebrities have DirecTV. we've looked them up) have upwards of $200-$500). depending on how wealthy DirecTV thinks you are, you get to abuse this function, because the PPV's aren't actually billed to your account until the receiver phones home. spent $60 on pay per views on the main receiver? call tech support, and tell them that you're getting "Error 731", and when they go through the troubleshooting, say it changed to "Error 721" (you can look up the error codes via google). the Entertainment Consultant will get frustrated, and send you out a new card. at the worst, you get $60 worth of PPV for the price of a $20 card. or, if you press the issue (I just got the p4 card upgrade recently! these cards are under the warranty!!!), they'll usually waive the fee. just don't do this too often. they do track the cards on the account, and if they see too many, they'll get suspicious. once a year or so (maybe twice a year if you push it) wouldn't be too bad.
so anyway, the phone line is just for Tivo (sometimes), and mostly for phoning home pay per views. if you have no need for the DirecTV interactive weather channel, or the "buy this album" options in the music channels, you can feel free to leave it unplugged.
One Company (cough ..Charter) uses phone # as unique ID for the voice app system to route support calls.,....
Real hugh PITA ( Pain in the A**) for me since my cell is one area code and my apt is way diff area code.
Similar story with my bank..
No problems getting credit since my credit info based on SSN not phone number..
SSN the national id that wasn't supposed to be..
Sucka, you got SERVED....
Old tivos (series 1) don't support USB ethernet because they don't have USB. They do, however, support the TurboNet ethernet card from 9thtee.com. These require you to open the case and plug the card in, much like putting an ethernet card into a PC. More expensive than a USB dongle, but they work just fine.
DirecTivos don't support ethernet of any sort despite having USB, but you don't need it. (DirecTV is scared of connectivity. Fear of pirated shows, or something.) You get your guide from the satellite. The "complaining about missing guide data" is a bug that a patch is going out for in the near future. Dtivos (including mine) have been incorrectly reporting "1-2 days of data remaining" while actually having weeks of guide data. They keep working just fine, but you'll see the message when it's not true until you get the patch.
You don't need to have the phone hookup. See the thread a couple of days ago about how the Super Bowl was so heavily TiVoed and the reporting of that information.