Nintendo's Next Seems on Track, Despite Reports

KaiEl writes "The Video Game Ombudsman has a breakdown of the myriad reports stemming from a Nihon Keizai Shimbun story (picked up by GameCube Europe) that says Nintendo 'has decided not to release a new video game console to follow its current GameCube for the time being,' and 'will instead diversify games and sell newly developed peripherals mainly for the GameCube.' Despite the existence of some breathless initial stories from IGN and 1UP, this story may already be dead in the water thanks to firm denials by both Nintendo of America and its Japanese parent, Nintendo Co. Ltd. Still, just the intimation that Nintendo may be planning to sit out the next round of the console race will surely have the Internet rumor mill buzzing."

Comments

Where else is there to go?

[dTaylorSingletary]

The Gamecube is the most solid system Nintendo has yet released. Metroid Prime shows off its full capabilities, and I really don't know where they could go from there. What more do people want out of a home console system, besides more games? Why battle a war that is really about shiny things? Think back to the days of NES, the wide-range of game selection available both good and bad (as well as horribly mediocre and superb beyond all belief) -- why not concentrate on the system it has now? I have been nothing but impressed with the capabilities of the Gamecube. I can't imagine a system being more able to provide an entertaining gaming experience, within the current framework of the concept.

Until a true revolution in gaming has arrived, ripe and ready for consumption, what need is there for yet another console? It seems to me that Sony and Microsoft at this point want to release new systems because their current ones are incapable of handling the demands of the games they want to create, or want created for them. I do not see Nintendo yet having this problem with the Gamecube.

It's as if the gaming industry thinks that to remain relevant they have to release a new console every three years. Let the damn things breath. The public needs to be able to take a breath before it can be taken away by a "new gaming experience."

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Dark Nexus]

You're right in that there seems to be an unnecessary rush to get new consoles out to market. They aren't giving existing consoles time to mature properly like they used to.

NES debuted in North America in what, 1984? Followed by the SNES in 1993 I think? 9 years or so between the two.

Some of the later NES games outdid some (early) SNES or Genesis games for how good they looked.

On the flip side though, there is someplace to go. Yes, Metroid Prime looks beautiful (though I disagree about that being the GCN's full capabilities), but try something that looks that good in 4 window split view.

I agree that single player games aren't going to get much better looking. It's getting that kind of performance in multiplayer that's the goal, I'd say.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[b0r0din]

While I'm not a big fan of the gamecube in many ways, such as its fairly ugly control scheme (maybe i'm just a playstation snob) I love the sort of family/party gaming attitude it brings to the table. My girlfriend can play the same games, unlike a lot of the stuff out for XBox and Playstation (although Sony is pretty diverse, they also make games like Manhunt) Old school Mario will not be soon forgotten.

Still, I think it's sad that the Playstation has really changed the face of games, to the point where now 3D is required in every game. Let's face it, there is more control, but it's harder to get into a game now when there is no standard between three or four games, R1 moves you left in one game, analog stick in another, R2 in yet another...it makes it hard to get into a game and be able to come back to it after even a few days if you've forgotten the controls.

Maybe it's the old school in me, but what happened to more 2D games? I highly doubt that everything has been exhausted in this department. And why has there not been a successful VR platform or a big change in accessories? DDR basically uses the old nintendo pad. I was really hoping by now there'd be a huge improvement in peripherals. Eye Toy is an example of some innovation, so is feedback. I think the short-lived product cycles are stifling innovation in these categories.

For now, I think graphics are respectable. So why not go from here and begin to innovate the whole genre? Make some more interesting games. Take a page from Dreamcast and make quality games, not a host of crappy sequels.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Ondo]

NES debuted in North America in what, 1984? Followed by the SNES in 1993 I think? 9 years or so between the two.

On the contrary, it was 6 years. 1985 for the NES, 1991 for the SNES.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[PhyreFox]

It's as if the gaming industry thinks that to remain relevant they have to release a new console every three years.

Considering Sony and MS gauge their success based on revenue generated from hype, they have to release a new console every three years just to keep the attention of the public. It's not that the systems are incapable of handling the games, it's that the consumers are becoming incapable of sticking with something for long. Sony and Microsoft pushed the limits of their respective hardwares early on in order to one-up eachother as well as Nintendo and in the process, burned out after a couple of years. Considering Nintendo managed to make the SNES last for what? Nine years? Why fix what works?

Re:Where else is there to go?

[samdu]

As mentioned above, NES to SNES was six years. Playstation 2 to Playstation 3 will be at least that long (released in 2000, replaced in late 2005-2006). X-Box and Gamecube are having to release sooner (relative to the Playstation) because they were late to the game in this generation and have to appear to keep up with Sony. Nintendo has stated that they want to be first out of the gate with the next generation of system, which they probably will be, giving them both early adoption and longer shelf life.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[samdu]

Take a page from Dreamcast and make quality games, not a host of crappy sequels.

Yeah, that worked out well for Sega, everyone do that. :) Actually, I love my Dreamcast and it does have a much better stable of diverse games than any other console, but you HAVE to make the sequels and you HAVE to have EA Sports in order to support the console for the other interesting stuff. Besides, some sequels are keen, like SOCOM II and the Rogue Squadron games on the 'Cube (they just keep getting better - I think they may be tapped out, though).

As for 2Ders, you DID buy Viewtiful Joe, didn't you? If you didn't, you forfeit all rights to complain about the lack of 2D games.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[caitsith01]

"maybe i'm just a playstation snob"

Are you serious? The PS2 controller has got to be one of the worst ever... only eclipsed my MS's monolith.

I just wish Nintendo had stuck closer to the N64 design - now *that* was a controller.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Ondo]

Considering Sony and MS gauge their success based on revenue generated from hype, they have to release a new console every three years just to keep the attention of the public.

Except, of course, it's been more than three years since the release of the PS2. The only difference in this console cycle from previous ones is that Nintendo and Microsoft may launch their next consoles a bit early (4 years instead of 5) to go from being behind Sony last time to being ahead this time. The PS3 will probably be 6 years behind the PS2.

Considering Nintendo managed to make the SNES last for what? Nine years?

Five years. Pretty much the standard. NES was released (in North America) in 1985, then the SNES in 1991, the N64 in 1996, and the GameCube in 2001.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Anonymous Coward]

And it doubles as a grappling hook.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Incoherent07]

Question: If the Playstation was what made it "required" for games to have 3D, why is it that the original "standard" for a 3D platformer (Mario 64) was a Nintendo game?

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Rallion]

Irony: Microsoft's Sidewinder series of PC joysticks and gamepads (also includes wheels and headsets) are some of those most comfortable controllers ever. They fit your hand every bit as well as the GameCube controller, except nobody would be able to complain that they're too small.

And instead of following in that tradition, they decided to take inspiration from forest wildlife when it became really important to have a single, great controller design.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[mivok]

Interestingly the other day I noticed a PS2 controller to Gamecube converter.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Craig Maloney]

I was going to post a comment about the same thing, but you've hit the nail right on the head. Let sony and Microsoft worry about the next big thing in game consoles. We're at a point where these machines are incremental advances of 32 bit gaming. Outside of drastically improved graphical polygon pushing capability, the gaming genres haven't moved much beyond what the 3DO, PSX, and Saturn accomplished in the 1990s. Nintendo is wise to polish the GameCube and diversify its current library rather than drop the whole system in favor of the next notch in the graphical ladder. They'll be in a much better position when the next major jump happens to gaming.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[PainKilleR-CE]

On the contrary, it was 6 years. 1985 for the NES, 1991 for the SNES.

And the SNES was late to market, as the Genesis and the TG-16 were both available long before it.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[PainKilleR-CE]

Question: If the Playstation was what made it "required" for games to have 3D, why is it that the original "standard" for a 3D platformer (Mario 64) was a Nintendo game?

Because although the PS1 was released far ahead of the N64, no one had really released a solid 3D platformer before Mario 64. Anyone that released a 3D platformer at all was trying to figure out how to do it well, and missed in one way or another.

The PS1 really pulled a lot of market share by having an arcade version that meant easy porting between the arcade and the console, and by pulling in publishers and developers that we all knew well from the NES days (ie Square, Konami, Capcom).

Re:Where else is there to go?

[PainKilleR-CE]

Five years. Pretty much the standard. NES was released (in North America) in 1985, then the SNES in 1991, the N64 in 1996, and the GameCube in 2001.

And the SNES, N64, and Cube were all considered late to market, even though the N64 was arguably ahead of it's time (though just as Nintendo skipped a "32-bit console" everyone else skipped the "64-bit console"). After 3 successive (but successful, as far as Nintendo's concerned) late releases, of course their cycle is going to be a bit short if they want to release at the same time as everyone else. With the SNES they had the same power Sony does today, they could release late and get people to hold off on the Genesis or TG-16 to see what they were going to do (as people held off on the DreamCast to see what the PS2 would do). With the N64, they were too far behind the PS1, and within the 2 years following N64's launch the PS1 had a string of highly successful games from developers that were best known for their NES and SNES titles.

Frankly, I think it's good to see Nintendo considering putting themselves on the release schedule everyone else is following. At the very least, it'll give people a chance to compare all of the systems from the start.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Echnin]

I have a MS SideWinder gamepad. It's a little too big for my (Scandinavian) hands, my hand hurts after a while, and it's hard to use the directional pad without accidentally pressing two directions at once. I regret buying it; should have gone with Logitech...

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Smedrick]

I couldn't agree more. I've always raved about the Sidewinder (the old version...not that silver USB turd). The only complaint I have about the Sidewinder is the D-pad. My guess is they tried adding a couple analog sticks to the Sidewinder to create the X-Box controller and it simply got out of hand (pun semi-intended). I also think the N64 controller, while not as comfortable as the Sidewinder, was very innovative in how it gives you several different ways to grip the controller.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Smedrick]

What I like best about the Gamecube controller is the button layout. It's much easier (for me, at least) to distinguish bewtween different shaped buttons than different colored buttons.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the virtual boy was 32 bits, but no one dares to mention the console.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Wildfire Darkstar]

I remember back when the original Playstation was new on the market there was a lot of talk about it not having the horsepower to handle "true" 3D a la the Nintendo 64. The first batch of PSX games, correspondingly, were either fully 2D, or a sort of limited 3D/2D hybrid (the Crash Bandicoot games, for example). I seem to recall the fuss over the now basically forgotten Croc, which was the first major Playstation game to pull off the "total 3D" style of Mario 64 reasonably well.

Still, how soon people forget, I suppose.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing I think sucks about the controller is the small directional pad and the distance it is.

My thumb gets cramps reaching that far away.

Re:Where else is there to go?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ugly control scheme?

I've been using controllers from Atari 2600 -> Nes -> SNES -> Saturn -> PSX -> Gamecube, in addition to playing almost every other console (TG-16, Dreamcast, X-Box, etc...) and I can honestly say the Gamecube is one of my favorite controllers (top 3).

It fits very nicely in my hand, and I find all the buttons useful, with the exception of the Z-button.

PSX took a page out of the SNES design (probably since it was originally developed to be a SNES cdrom add-on), but it really hasn't progressed much since then. I like the SNES design a lot for the time, and I made the progression to PSX when that came out, but it's starting to feel a bit lacking.

Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[caitsith01]

I mean, seriously, for $100 you get:

- a reasonably powerful games console
- the satisfaction of not supporting M$ or $ony
- the pleasure of an object of unusual grace and beauty
- a console 1/100th the size of an X-Box controller
- Pikmin, Metroid Prime, F-Zero, Monkey Ball
- a large dose of Japano-chic

And for all you Apple fanboys/girls out there, come on, Nintendo couldn't be any more like Apple:

- poses as heroic independent company adrift in a sea of evil corporate competitors
- main executives have funny names and wear silly clothes
- console is underpowered but 'easier to use'
- designers actually thought about what the final product would look like
- relatively fewer titles available, but the ones you can get are 'better'
- a variety of brightly coloured designs to choose from
- you can connect an even smaller, more expensive object to the main system for an enhanced experience

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[DrDoombender]

the satisfaction of not supporting M$ or $ony... Nintendo couldn't be any more like Apple:

Please recheck your facts. Nintendo is as bad as $M and $ony. $hin-tendo is as money hungry as any other corporation, and as I recall they made deals with stores such as Toy R U$ to perpetuate a monopoly that pushed competitive groups out of their market. It wasn't till many lawsuits and regulations that Nintendo finally lost its stranglehold on the market.

I also don't find satisfaction in deny microsoft or sony money. If they sell a good product, I'm just as happy buying it from a large corporation as I would be if I bought it from a small business. Your partisan ideals really don't have a place in the console area mainly because what we are seeing is an era of awesome game choice, good prices, and good consoles.

Now mind you that I find the humor in your statements, but really the gamecube is a great console, that is NOT underpowered, but hey what do I know. I mean, according to microsoft a 733 celeron is faster than a 500mhz 128-bit processor. So obviously a 485Mhz proc of a different spec is guaranteed to be slower than the PS2 or xbox's proc. Also, the GC has a very nice graphics card, and fast ram. The only real drawback is that it lacks a hard drive. That's hardly a reason to be up in arms. Most games don't take advantage of the hard drive feature.

If your interepretation of "underpowered" is different from mine, please let me know.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[caitsith01]

Hey, relaxxx bloke.

I know it's not underpowered, I was kidding around about the general perception. I mean, relative to the X-Box it's bad for polys, good for textures. I'm happy with it.

Also, I know what Nintendo are like, and indeed this was actually part of my semi-ironic comparison with Apple, who are the most monopolistic pimps on the face of the earth. Nintendo's own reluctance to accept competition has and will cost them very dearly.

As for MS... I do take a great deal of satisfaction in denying them money. Mainly because the X-Box is an ok system that has been marketed down the throats of millions of fanboy 12 year olds using money obtained from drug dealing or worse, selling copies of Windows.

Sony I don't dislike as much and I like their design ethos, but the PS2 is a heaving load of junk and it pisses me off that so many pathetic 16 year olds are so overcome by the kewl-factor that the PS2 routinely outsells two much better consoles.

Interesting that you mention the hard drive - I would say the biggest weakness the GC had is that it can't play DVDs. I think this point is oft overlooked in the analysis of why Nintendo is losing market share steadily (well, until recently). When the PS2 came out, DVD was not ubiquitous and I know that a lot of people got it because they thought the DVD playback was a cool feature.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[samdu]

the PS2 is a heaving load of junk and it pisses me off that so many pathetic 16 year olds are so overcome by the kewl-factor that the PS2 routinely outsells two much better consoles.

The PS2 - I wouldn't call it junk. There are some truly stellar games that look absolutely georgous on it (ICO comes to mind). But it does lag behind the other two consoles in raw power and graphics prowess. That's because it was released a year ahead of the other two machines, and frankly, the graphical difference is not mind-boggling. This weakness is also its strength. Because it had a year on the other two consoles, it was able to build a great library of games (and that it plays PS1 games doesn't hurt). What it comes down to is games and the PS2 has them in spades.

I would say the biggest weakness the GC had is that it can't play DVDs

I'd agree whole-heartedly, but less for the reason you mention (it is a good reason, though). Probably the biggest complaint publishers had about the N64 was that Nintendo hard-headedly stuck to the proprietary cartridge format that held less data and was far more expensive than the CD-ROM format that everyone else had moved to. Well, with the GameCube, they are still operating with a proprietary format. It still cost more to publish games on those mini-discs than if they had chosen a standard DVD drive. The next machine from the big N had better have some sort of standard storage medium, or third parties are going to remain reluctant to develop for it.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[DrDoombender]

yeah, I started to catch onto the humor of what you were saying towards the end. Right about where I said, Now mind you that I find the humor in your statements.

heh. You got some funny ideas. 12 year olds using money obtained from drug dealing or worse, selling copies of Windows I would say the biggest weakness the GC had is that it can't play DVDs

I dissagree with that. Lots of people claim the lack of DVD support is a drawback. I doubt that, you can get DVD players so cheap now, that they are practically a dime a dozen. The GC is simply a pure game console. I mean seriously, in my household alone, we have something like 10 devices that play DVDs. My GC's lack of DVD playback is not a problem.

Now I could see other households that might not have a bunch of tech stuff, but seriously. Picking up a $40 DVD (that's good) and a GC is still cheaper then buying a PS2 or xbox. Really, though, I think what might be hurting the GC is the lack of cheap titles, that compete with the PS2's Greatest Hits price and selection.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[Squideye]

Well, there's one more point to make about GameCube's similarity to Apple, and it's the presence of a PowerPC CPU (not to mention the cube form factor).

Still... the lack of DVD functionality can be a minor drawback if one is cramped for space, power outlets, or wiring acumen. It can be quite handy to have a single system do everything. On the other hand, it's better in the long run to have a few systems, each doing something well.

But I wanted to point out something related to Dr. Doombender's assessment of the "value-priced" field, and that's the "Player's Choice" line for GameCube (which already includes Pikmin, Animal Crossing, and Metroid Prime, probably among others). GameCube has the advantage that most of its first-party or platform-exclusive games are long-lived, rock-solid paragons of game design. You're correct that it suffers, on the other hand, from a lack of catalogue depth. If you're the type who grinds through games quickly and needs a new fix ASAP, the GameCube really doesn't have shelves and shelves of old, discounted, used, or legacy games to work with.

I mean, you could get the GameBoy Player, but that's a whole other story.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[scot4875]

The PS2 - I wouldn't call it junk. There are some truly stellar games that look absolutely georgous on it (ICO comes to mind).

I think he's referring to something else when calling the PS2 'junk.' The XBox, while not exactly elegant, is basically a decent PC and has a decent overall design. The 'Cube, with its beautifully integrated design and customized PowerPC processor is a really tight little piece of engineering.

The PS2, however, is a mess. How many processors do you have to program in parallel to get decent performance out of it? How tiny is its VRAM? Well, yeah, it's got a 128-bit processor -- that's great. Now how does that help games again? It's like Sony designed the thing with only one goal in mind: big numbers to put on a feature list.

It's not that there aren't any good games out for it (there are many), it's that they're definitely held back by the limitations of the hardware they're running on.

I'd go almost as far as to say that Sony is the only company that *needs* to release new hardware. The XBox and 'Cube look great. They're both to the point that artistic direction have far more impact on a game's presentation than the hardware. I don't think that Sony can claim that of the PS2.

--Jeremy

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[Rallion]

My GameCube and DVD player could fit twice in even a PS2, let alone an XBox. DVD player was also less than $50 and has some nice features you won't find in a non-dedicated device.

So I think that in this case it's better in the short run too, really.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[noselasd]

I think you really should take a deep look at the PS2. It's hardware is _great_. Several processors that's very good at doing their own thing. (PC's are somewhat similar these days, a CPU , a GPU, Sound processors, even the network cards are doing processing(TCP checksumming, some with crypto accelerators))
RAM almost at the speed of the processor, mostly eliminating the processor caches. 128bit is very nice for multimedia.

I'd also like to know what hardware features are holding back PS2 games so much, compared to the other consoles.
And while the GC looks somewhat cool, I've yet to see a cool Xbox. Seriously, have you actually seen one ? Compared to a PS2 they look like shit.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[PainKilleR-CE]

I'd also like to know what hardware features are holding back PS2 games so much, compared to the other consoles.

The PS2 has less power than any other home console of the current generation (including the DreamCast). On top of that, many graphics features that were well-supported and documented in the hardware of the other systems (again including the DreamCast) were either unsupported or poorly documented in the PS2. The most obvious of these (especially in the early titles) is FSAA, which Sony eventually documented (or developed middleware for, or someone else developed middleware for it), after the internet was filled with jokes about the jagged edges in PS2 games. The major thing that effects the appearance of PS2 games today, though, is the lack of memory for graphics resources. You can easily double the amount of RAM used for textures and such on the other consoles, which can be used to make the game look significantly better.

And while the GC looks somewhat cool, I've yet to see a cool Xbox. Seriously, have you actually seen one ? Compared to a PS2 they look like shit.

If I was worried about how my consoles look, I wouldn't keep any of them in plain view. None of them look like they belong anywhere near my TV or stereo. They look like they belong in a kid's room. At the very least, though, the only one that isn't the same colour as the rest (at least in my cabinet) is the DreamCast.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[Zangief]

I would say the biggest weakness the GC had is that it can't play DVDs

But nowadays, everyone has a DVD player, so I don't think it hurts it anymore.

Well, with the GameCube, they are still operating with a proprietary format. It still cost more to publish games on those mini-discs than if they had chosen a standard DVD drive. The next machine from the big N had better have some sort of standard storage medium, or third parties are going to remain reluctant to develop for it.

You mean, something like a standard DVD-R, so everyone can pirate the games, like the playstation with CDs? Do you think that a few extra cents on each disc outweights the millions of pirated games that would exist now if the Cube used a standard format?

When the next generation of consoles arrive, DVD burners will be commonplace, so the companies better have some good copy-protection system running. Nintendo already has one.

However, I am worried by the fact that Nintendo plans to have backwards compatibility with the GC. This means that the same miniDVDs will be able to run on the N5, so if someones finds a way to burn miniDVDs by then, all would be lost.

I'd dare to say that the things that scares some developers, is that the people with a Cube, buy mostly Nintendo games, so most thirds parties have a strong competitor in this console (one that not only has a good name, but one that has earned this names churning out excellent games).

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[Worminater]

you can burn the mini-dvds now, its just more complicated then the average smo will care to learn(by a factore of n)

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[13Echo]

Not only that, but the PS2 lacks any real support for texture compression. So in addition to its slim resources, it has to use fancy tricks for coloring textures, and the results aren't pretty. Such is the reason why many games are hindered with terrible green or brown hinting in textures. The system relies on 8 bit color tables, like those in 256 color gif files. Games like Metal Gear Solid come to mind, where everything is green. Some could say that it fits in from an artistic standpoint and blend's in with the game's mood... But when nearly ALL games are victim to this? What a silly design. I've yet to see the system do what the Dreamcast could do in its first year or two. Not that looks really matter or anything, but even Soul Calibur 2, 4 years after the DC game was released, is infrerior on the PS2 than the Dreamcast. That's just sad, considering that the PS2 game was BUILT for the system, and the DC game was a highly suped up port of a Playstation arcade game.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[edwdig]

It still cost more to publish games on those mini-discs than if they had chosen a standard DVD drive.

That's only because Nintendo charges higher licensing fees. There might be a few cent difference in actual production costs, but nothing significant.

PlayStation games aren't made on normal discs either. You have to get the discs pressed by Sony. Their discs just happen to be closer to standard discs than Nintendo's, but there isn't much of a difference between any of the three. Remember, Panasonic released the Q, which was a GameCube that played DVDs. There were two motherboards in it, but a shared drive. GameCube discs can't be that different from normal DVDs then.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[c_jonescc]

"PS2 is a heaving load of junk"

Exactly. I know it plays great games, and Ico looks great, but the fact is the failure rate on the PS2 is incredibly high. It's quite rare that a PS2 can read CD games, DVD games, audio CDs, and movie DVDs after a couple years. I payed over $200 for my PS2, and it pisses me off that I can no longer play any game with a blue-backed disc.

The warrenty is 30 days. I can pay Sony, and shipping both ways to fix something that shouldn't wear out in less than 2 years. Right now I am only buying the multiplatform games for the cube, simply because it still works.

Re:Come on you shills, buy a gamecube!

[__aailob1448]

The PS2 is less powerful than the Dreamcast? Bullshit. Please back up your comments with verifiable facts or shut up.

In Other News...

[illuminatedwax]

This story from Yahoo! should shed some light on the situation.

--Stephen

Re:In Other News...

[M.C. Hampster]

Good article. I noticed this bit:

Nintendo President Satoru Iwata has said on numerous occasions that the video game industry has started to alienate fans by developing games that are too complex and too heavily dependent on graphics.

As I a Nintendo fan-boy that has owned ever Nintendo console since I was 12 years old, I'm starting to find myself more and more dissatisifed with the company. Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy my GameCube, and I have a ton of fun with the big games for the system. But it seems that Nintendo has really developed this attitude that all games have to be really, simple with no flashy graphics to be fun. And their attitude towards online play has really bothered me. I'm an adult now with a family. I don't always have time now to get a bunch of friends together to play Nintendo. I'd like online play so I can play with friends. I don't mind better graphics. I don't mind some complexity in my gaming.

It's possible that I may be switching to another company for my next console choice. I'll just have to see what Nintendo is planning on offering me for the next go-around.

Re:In Other News...

[clu76]

I think there might be a distinction between simplicity and challenging. Super Monkey Ball is as simple as it gets. You use the analog stick to make the monkey move (technically, you're changing the pitch of the platform, but that's besides the point.) But the game is anything but easy when you get into the more challenging levels. I spent many hours playing that game before I was able to beat all the levels. The game no longer as challenging as it once was. But I still pick it up an play it every once in awhile, because it's simple enough where I can just pick it up and play for 5 minutes if I want. Just like an old atari 2600 game.

As for graphics... I'm sure every gamer can think of at least one game that had great graphics, but played like ass.

Re:In Other News...

[M.C. Hampster]

I'm a proud owner of SMB2 and I love the game. You make a good point in terms of a game that is simple, yet challenging. However, the game I play the most often, and have since I purchased it, would be Soul Calibur II. It's a rather complex fighting game with astounding graphics. And it's a favorite of my friends too.

It also doesn't seem to fall into Nintendo's notion of what a great game should be. There general focus seems to drift further and further from what I'm getting interested in as I get older. Now, please don't take that to mean I'm into gory, violent or "adult" games, because I'm not. However, I am interested in things like online play, complex play mechanics, FPS's, etc.

Re:In Other News...

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree with the comments on online play and complex play mechanics, but as far as FPS, I've yet to enjoy playing an FPS on a console.

Halo was a good game hampered by an _ok_ playing experience. If Bungie had done with Halo what they had originally intended for the Mac/PC, it would have wiped the floor with the XBox version.

I do hope that Nintendo includes some form of online play in the next generation though :)

Re:In Other News...

[M.C. Hampster]

I agree with the comments on online play and complex play mechanics, but as far as FPS, I've yet to enjoy playing an FPS on a console.

I do agree that FPS play is superior on a computer with keyboard/mouse combinations, but I still have a lot of fun playing multiplayer FPS's on a console. The split screen really sucks, which is why I want online or at least networked play. But what is sorely missing on the PC is the easy ability to voice chat with friends and opponents like on XBox Live. Plus, it is difficult to keep up with the constantly shifting demands and requirements for playing the latest FPS's.

Have you ever tried Timesplitters 2? It was an awesome console FPS. If I could have that online with voice chat on my console, it would have been perfect.

Buy a GameCube?

[Anonymous Coward]

$100 dollars for all you say doesn't sound bad ... except, the games are still $50 a pop, right?

I'm a very casual gamer, and that's what's keeping me from the cube. My first console was the Dreamcast near the end of its cycle, and I picked up tons of game for $25 dollars or less. A month or two ago I finally decided to get something else, and I really thought about the 'cube, but the cost of the games was the main thing against it.

The second thing was that I really wanted to play more RPGs, which there weren't many for the Dreamcast (the one I liked was Skies of Arcadia), so I ended up getting a cheap used PSOne for $29 dollars, and now I'm buying a lot of rereleased and used Final Fantasy games, and I also got a GBA SP which is a lot of fun, and I'm finding a lot of games for that in the $15-$25 dollar range.

I was hoping that GameCube would have cheaper games, but their "player's choice" or whatever it is called is still in the $30 dollar range and there aren't that many of them. I'm going to wait awhile until more games come down in price.

Re:Buy a GameCube?

[PainKilleR-CE]

$100 dollars for all you say doesn't sound bad ... except, the games are still $50 a pop, right?


3 of the 4 games he mentioned can easily be found for $20-30 a pop, and there are plenty more that can be found in the same range.

I was hoping that GameCube would have cheaper games, but their "player's choice" or whatever it is called is still in the $30 dollar range and there aren't that many of them

Most of the "Player's Choice" titles can be found for less than $30 as well, especially if you're willing to buy used. The only games I bought for my Cube at $35+ were F-Zero, Mario Kart, and Animal Crossing (and the last was $35, a month before it became a Player's Choice title), the first two obviously being too new to expect to be less than $40 regardless of what console they were released on.

Re:Buy a GameCube?

[EvilOpie]

If you were willing to buy used games, you can often save a fortune on them. One of my friends has very good luck with buying games on ebay. (hopefully that link will work) Used games can often sell for under $20 even.

Or you can always do things like check for used games at places like EB, or your more local game shops. Other than that though, I do agree that the games are expensive. But they are worth going for if you ask me. $100 for the console itself isn't a bad price, and they've got games that you won't find anywhere else. So I'd give it a shot. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Re:Buy a GameCube?

[13Echo]

I got many of my Gamecube games at value prices:

Pikmin - $19.99
Eternal Darkness - $14.99
Ikaruga - $19.99
Starfox - $19.99
Resident Evil 0 - $19.99

And many more. I think that even Metroid is close to that price range right now, as are many of the other games that I once paid full price for.

Re:Buy a GameCube?

[sYn pHrEAk]

I just got Metroid Prime for $19.55 shipped on eBay. Used but mint condition.

Excellent News I say

[metroid composite]

The Super Nintendo was a good jump above the NES. The PSX and the N64 allowed 3D, though at the expense of either low space or long loading times. The PS2 and GCN got rid of the above weaknesses, and have very detailed 3D already. Seriously, WHY buy a new system when I pretty much can't tell the difference between the graphics?

I've been hoping this would happen, and now that it has I'll probably go out and buy a GameCube. Nintendo: don't upgrade systems until there's VR or lots of HDTVs around or something to make it worthwhile. I'd be quite happy hanging on to the same system for 10 years...like my old GameBoy actually....

Re:Excellent News I say

[reiggin]

Did you RTFA?

Re:Excellent News I say

[Roman_(ajvvs)]

The PS2 and GCN got rid of the above weaknesses

.. have you ever played DragonBall Z: Budokai on the PS2? that game has to have the SLOWEST loading time for any game I've ever come across (even longer than Halo between levels, which at the very least is justifiable).

While I'd agree that the graphics capabilities of the different consoles are mostly equivalent, I'd say the graphics quality differs between games because of the developers.
Some are too lazy or unwilling to tune the graphics for a specific platform and so they go for the most generic (and least performing) code. I recall Sony noted this about PS2 games recently. Others just don't know how to get the most out of the system. That's not so much a developers competency issue, as it is one of development ease.

If a certain type of 4D pixel shader takes 3 days to write on one console and 3 weeks to write on another, there's not much chance that anyone's going to bother recoding a game feature for the latter console.

Re:Excellent News I say

[Anonymous Coward]

"Arguing with people on the internet is like running in the special olympics -- even if you win, you're still retarded."

Off topic I know, but I disagree. In my experience, in real life arguments, people spout off all sorts of crap that just won't fly on the internet. For example, claiming that a certain fact is true when it really isn't. In real life you are pretty much stuck accepting that it might be true, no matter how much you know the person you are arguing with is a complete halfwit. On the internet you can often find proof (from snopes, or wherever) and hand that back to them as a response. Also people often like to claim expertise in a field you aren't familiar with in order to get a privileged status in the conversation, a (phony) professional speaking down to a commoner. On the internet, a real expert on the subject will often smack them down with glee, where in the real world you would be stuck with the "I know this person is an idiot, but at the moment can't prove it satisfactorily" feeling.

So while a lot of people like to say things like "and everything on the internet must be true" sarcasticly, as if the internet was actually worse than television, newspapers, and magazines - THE source of misinformation today, I can only conclude that they simply are brainless sheep who prefer to get their information from authority figures rather than peer reviewed sources that the internet provides. Their bullshit doesn't fly here quite so easily, so they mock it. The same goes for your quote. I can "win" a conversation off line, but it usually feels like a "battle of wits with an unarmed oponnent". Here on the internet it is much more interesting.

Re:Excellent News I say

[Anonymous Coward]

Er? The PS2 got rid of the big weaknesses that were introduced in the PS1 generation?
Jaggies/anti aliasing weaknesses, weak texture support, long and frequent load times... All of those are still present for the PS2, significantly improved over the PS1 days, but relative to the current competition those are all major PS2 weaknesses... Shoot, some of those are even weaknesses relative to the dreamcast...

Re:Excellent News I say

[MMaestro]

While the GCN (for the most part) solved the weaknesses it suffered with the N64, the PS2 is a shoddy, crappy ass upgrade from the PS1. The thing that saves the PS2 is by developers coding either very, very, very good game engines (Final Fantasy and the Medal of Honor series) or very, very, very bad game engines (DBZ:Budokai, pretty much ever first-gen game of the system, EyeToy).

Could we have some upgrades? Anti-aliasing? Hardware specs that the Dreamcast outdoes? No decrease (and in some cases longer) in load times? Only 2 controller ports built-in?

some thoughts

[chadamir]

Well upon reading through some of the replies to this post, I want to bring some thoughts of mine.

1) the subject of realism in games: Too some, realism in terms of graphics, might be only second to gameplay, but to many it's important. If a game we're somehow able to look like an hdtv football game on television, it would be a vast improvement to a lot of people.
2) the subject of hdtv: Someone said they should wait for hdtvs to be more prevalent, well i hate to break it to you, but they are. At this point there's not really an excuse to own one or be saving up for one except that you're one of those people who has to wait and wait and wait until the best thing is out, but any geek who likes gadgets doesn't operate in such a way. You can get an hdtv for around 400-500 bucks. Thats roughly 8 dollars a week for a year. 10 if you want to be fair. Nintendos new system wont be out for probably 2 years. By that time you could have saved 800-1000 dollars for a sweet widescreen set, and probably by that time 800-1000 will go a lot further than it does now. For about 1000 dollars right now you can get a good 32-36 inch widescreen hdtv set.

Re:some thoughts

[mr.capaneus]

I'm sorry buddy, but HDTV's are most definitely not common. What kind of HDTV can you buy for 400-500 dollars? Basically, an HDTV that is not really any better than the TV you have now. The only compelling reason to buy an HDTV right now is if you want a big screen TV and that is going to cost you some money. Not to mention that most of the HDTV's that are being sold right now can't even do 1920x1080. If I'm going to drop that kind of change on a television set, I better be damn sure it is going to last for 10 years or more. The fact of the matter is that only a very few gamers have an HDTV (i.e. kids with rich parents, young professionals). HDTV adoption is going to continue at a snails pace until the prices come down and there are more HD broadcasts.

Re:some thoughts

[Naffer]

Yea I'm saving, but not for a $500 "HD"TV. My first HDTV is going to do 1920x1080.

Lifespans

[fwitness]

I completely agree that there is currently no need for a new generation of consoles. The key demographic in the last few years has been the 18-25 (male of course) range that Sony has tapped into. Those "kids" are getting older and are not as impulsive as they used to be despite having more disposable income. Frankly, I'm tired of upgrading my console faster than my PC only to have to wait another year after release for quality games.

All three consoles have plenty of horsepower, are for the most part net-enabled, and developers have created the tools to make excellent games on them. Unless someone can give me an irrefutable reason why the current crop of consoles *can't* do something, I'm sticking with these. Prettier faces and industry buzzwords don't count.

Denials?!?! THIS news story says...

[WebGangsta]

According to THIS news story, Nintendo IS preparing a new console.

Japanese video game maker Nintendo Co Ltd said on Tuesday it would launch a next-generation home console in 2005 or 2006 and denied a newspaper report that it would delay development of a successor to its GameCube console.

The Nihon Keizai business daily said Nintendo would delay the launch of a next-generation game machine, but the Kyoto-based company said development of the next version of the GameCube was proceeding as planned.

"Other companies aren't expected to come out with next-generation consoles until late 2005 or 2006," said Nintendo spokesman Yasuhiro Minagawa. "Our machine will be ready at the same time as the other new consoles."

Re:Denials?!?! THIS news story says...

[WebGangsta]

Oh, never mind. You know, if someone had actually taken the time to READ some of the links in the original article, this never would have happened.

Move along, nothing more to see here.

If nothing else...

[Masem]

...do nothing to the GC in general, but do add support for digital audio, component video and ethernet (and therefore open the gaming market to networked games). You can get the above as standards or add-ons for the xbox and the PS2, and while I will admin the GC is geared towards the family than the power-gamer, adding support for these things, even if after-market items, would make the GC just that much better.

And fixing the damn GBA game cartiridge reader as to make it tons easier to remove and insert new cartridges. The GBA reader - ingenious (to make the GC even more adaptable), but it's design leaves much to be desired.

Oh, and a new Mario game that starts off with a big apology for Super Mario Sunshine. :-)

Re:If nothing else...

[StocDred]

And fixing the damn GBA game cartiridge reader as to make it tons easier to remove and insert new cartridges. The GBA reader - ingenious (to make the GC even more adaptable), but it's design leaves much to be desired.

Insert: push in the cartridge.
Remove: flip the switch on the right hand size.

What needs to be easier?

Re:If nothing else...

[DavidLeblond]

I thought Gamecube already had a component video cable. Sure, its sold seperately but its available.

Re:If nothing else...

[hibiki_r]

It is available straight from nintendo's online store. For some reason, nobody else is making component cables for the gamecube. As far as game support goes, almost every high profile gamecube game supports 480p.

Re:If nothing else...

[Anonymous Coward]

I just visited friends over the holidays who had a Pelican brand component video cable for their GameCube.

Re:If nothing else...

[Anonymous Coward]

The GameCube already has component video and ethernet add-ons available. Support for digital audio would have to added internally, so I doubt that's even possible as an add-on (you'd just be converting the audio signal that's already coming out, which would be pointless).

If you want better HDTV support and Dolby Digital, it's going to take a new console to get it. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. ;)

Re:If nothing else...

[13Echo]

There are several companies that make them; Monster, Pelican, and some generics that come from China are just a few examples.

Re:If nothing else...

[mr.capaneus]

There is also an ethernet adapter. It may be hard to find but it exists. I don't know about digital audio but I don't think there are many people that care about that anyway.

Re:If nothing else...

[DavidLeblond]

Well they DO have Dolby Pro-Logic II... thats not digital though.

Like my ears could tell a difference...

Love the cube. my suggestion for Nintendo

[Anonymous Coward]

Include a network adapter in the box. Then, maybe we'll get more online games.

Imagine new versions of the following games online...
- Pikmin
- Animal Crossing
- Metroid prime
- Rogue squadron

Oh man, that would be sweet....

My prediction...

[JMZero]

Nintendo will hook up with "the beast" for a co-branded console - the XCube. It will be backwards compatible with the GameCube (it has a closely architecture), it will have easily the best first party support (bringing Nintendo brands and MS dollars), and a flabbergasting amount of power (better, proven architecture from IBM/ATI - more money to make it fly).

Re:My prediction...

[Metroid72]

"From my cold dead hands!" - Hiroshi Yamauchi

Re:My prediction...

[kubrick]

... and Rare get to work for Nintendo again?

Gamecube rocks (says a PS2 owner)

[metamatic]

Yup, I agree. I just bought a Gamecube and Metroid Prime and put the PlayStation 2 away for a while. The first time I walked through a patch of ferns at the edge of a misty lake, and watched the condensation from the waterfall appear on my helmet visor, I was amazed. No slowdown glitches, no aliasing problems... The graphics are fantastic, like Riven or Myst III: Exile, except all in true 3D with real time lighting. Really, let's be reasonable, what more do you need?

The cube is a lovely piece of hardware too. Ultra-compact and almost totally silent, unlike the jet engine roar of the PS2. The controllers are taking a little getting used to, but I'm starting to like them.

So yeah, I'd like to see Nintendo push all of its effort into more games, better games, a wider range of games. Forget the hardware for a couple of years, it's good enough.

Sony, on the other hand--I'd like to see them make a small, silent PS2...