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Consequences of Turning Down a Promotion?
The Fun Guy asks: "I'm part of a research team, doing interesting work on an important topic. However, I've been getting some signals from various superiors that I might be put in charge of another team; the trouble is, that team is dysfunctional, unproductive, and the focus is not as cool as what I'm working on now. I do have career ambitions to move up the ladder of responsibility and authority, and even recently applied for a job three rungs up, mostly as a way to get noticed by the big wigs. It looks like they noticed, but that project looks like a minefield. I really think I'd rather be second banana on a great project than top banana on a lousy one. How bad would it be for my long-term prospects if I say 'Thanks, but no thanks, I'll wait for a better offer'?"
So you're a research microbioligist dealing with food irradiation?
What kind of pay raise are they offering? Do you they think you can help the team become productive? If you can do it, you would have proven yourself to do well in higer level positions. If you can't, you may lose the position like the guy you'd be replacing and get stuck in lower job or on the street. And of course there's the fun factor. Then there's what they might think of you if you turned it down. They might already have someone lined up to fill in your current job, and so on going down the line. And it may make you appear selfish if you turn it down. They may think you'll make the difference between that project's success or failure. It's all about risks, rewards, and sacrifices, and since you're the one faced with it, you understand them better than any of us.
Turning down the Captain's chair almost, but never really, hurt Riker's career...
Well, on Star Trek: TNG, Riker continuously declined the promotions that the federation tried to offer him, but he ended up an admiral on the 1701E during the last episode, which would kick some serious ass.
I say you do what he did, and maybe you'll get your own Starship... err interesting project.
-Ryan
AUWYHSTOT (Acronyms are Useless When You Have to Spell Them Out Too)
Back in my days of working for Directv Broadband, I had ambitions of working my way up the food chain to management. I worked up from peon to tier 2 support. The next step was to start being a lead, then a supervisor. But at that point managers started being targets, instead of leaders.
As time went by, management started asking questions, and really looking down thier nose at me for discontinuing my advencement.
I can't say I would have gone farther or be happier, but stopping the promotion cycle sure did raise some eyebrows.
Pretty Pictures!
Troubled projects are always in search of fresh meat to run them. Nine times out of ten the poor sap that takes on the responsibility fails, after suffering for a long time, and screwing up his future with the company in the bargain.
Be very careful when you choose a project to run. Remember that you will forever be associated with it for good or bad. Much better to start running a new project, or one that's already in decent shape.
Facts are stubborn things.
At some stage in your career if you have any ambition you will need to accept a job that you don't really want to do in order to move ahead.
Rejecting an offer will often be seen as a sign you're happy where you are. The next offer might not come your way.
Think of it this way - at least you seem to work for a company that's doing some sort of career planning for you.
Besides, do a good job and turn a team around and you'll be very highly considered in future.
It is obvious from your description that your superiors feel the other teams problems come from the head. They also feel that you might be the person to take charge and fix the other team. If you don't feel up to the challenge, be honest about it, but expect it to effect future promotion opportunities. If you feel like taking on the challenge you have the potential to make yourself look very good. I suggest getting some good leadership books.
This signiture copied from somewhere.
Seriously, honesty in this case would be the best way to handle the situation. You should share with your supervisors exactly how you feel! They're sure to understand. They will appreciate your communicativeness. Tell them that you're really flattered for being considered for the promotion, then be frank about your concerns about the other team. Remind then that you really enjoy your present position, and let them know that you'd still be interested in other opportunities for advancement, but just not right now. If they really, REALLY want *you* to do it, then they might end up upping the ante and making you an offer you can't refuse.
Go watch The Best of Both Worlds parts 1 and 2.
...
Commander William T. Riker turns down another promotion, a captaincy on another starship. He turns it down because the Enterprise is the best ship in the fleet, he's doing some great work there, and he is comfortable with where he is. But when Commander Shelby comes gunning for his choice position... he has to think about why he's choosing to stay in the same place for such a long time.
Admiral Hanson: "This is the third time we've pulled out the captain's chair for Riker.
He just won't sit down."
Shelby: All you know how to do is play it safe. I suppose that's why someone like you sits in the shadow of a great man for as long as you have, passing up one command after another. (To the turbolift computer) Proceed to deck 8.
Riker: When it comes to this ship and this crew, you bet I play it safe.
Shelby: If you can't make the big decisions, Commander, I suggest you make way for someone who can.
Picard: "Will, what the hell are you still doing here?"
Picard: "Will, you're ready to work without a net. You're ready to take command. And you know, the Enterprise will go on just fine without you."
Now, Riker stayed as 'second bananna' on the Enterprise, and did some truly great things... but eventually he did have to move on. He knew he couldn't stay on the Enterprise forever, and finally accepted a command of his own. The USS Titan.
Riker decided that he should stay on the Enterprise for all the reasons you've stated you might want to stay where you are. But he was able to take a step back, and realize that at some point... he had to move on. He had spent half his career in the same position, and had to move onto different things. He had to leave, or else stagnate.
Some stuff to think about, I guess.
no thanks
It seems as though you introduced yourself into the career ladder game, which means you asked for this: it's standard procedure, you're being asked to "fix up" a dysfunctional team, and if you take on the role and do the work, then you'll be somewhat fast tracked as a "doer" and "fixer".
If you don't take on the role, you're not going to be given another like it soon, and you may get an opportunity to move up, but it's not going to happen fast. If you _really_ want to be a "doer" and "fixer", then you can't pick and choose: you take what's offered and make it happen - that's the essence of being marked as someone who can be relied upon.
Anyone can sit along for the ride on a project that is already well run and staffed with motivated people. If you really want to show your employers what you are made of, you will takeup the lead position in the lagging, "uncool" project and turn it around. This is an opportunity.
As to the consequences of turing it down think about this: Companies want people who can rescue projects, motivate staff and above all communicate setbacks to superiors effectively. You don't need to be a superstar, but declining the position will show that you are scared of a challenge and like to hedge your bets rather than commit.
Take the job and don't look back: Be direct with the existing project team and make sure that you understand the sources of their frustration and conflicts. Then decide on a direction, communicate it and provide leadership. Tell the truth and tell it early.
Good luck!
Dialectician. Archology.
I think that it's fair to ask these questions of those that are offering you the position. I don't think you'll feel repercussions by stating your basic concerns (e.g. "I love my current position, but would like to complete these 3 milestones before I move on. What situation will that leave the team in? Do you have other qualified candidates in mind?")
That said, if the company believes that you're far better than any other candidate and/or that they would be injured if you didn't take the position, you should feel some obligation to take this position (assuming you are loyal to the company). If you don't, I think you'll rightfully be overlooked for future opportunities. Also, if you can get upper management to relate to your situation and help them find a viable alternative, you may help them appreciate your dedication to your current team.
At the end of the day, I think you have to understand the situation better: are you putting the team (or management) in a bad spot by not taking the position or are they just offering it to you because they think you're restless in your current job (you said you were applying for others)?
Who knows? They may be trying to do you a favor.
If you have the balls and know how to turn this team around, regardless of what it may take (gutting the team, refining the goal), then step up and get the damn job done. If not, then you spoke out of turn, and should resign to being left behind in your current position since you couldn't deliver when called upon. In fact, if you turn this down, you may want to start planning to leave the company since you will be sending a message that you don't understand the game or where it is you want to go.
Management is not fun, it is work, and it is harder work then being a cog in the machine. This is why the big bucks come at the top. Good luck.
die with your boots on.
I am of the 'never turn a new opportunity' down school when it comes to advancement. But I've never been in your exact situation so.... Taking on a nasty job nobody would want is a good way to make a lot of ground though.
This is a bit OT but 2 things- don't feel bad about your weight- for your height you are not doing too bad. I'm 3 inches shorter and quite a bit heavier- but getting lighter every day. The second thing- if you ever feel like feed back - or talking over how the diet goes allow comments on your blog here.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
You say you applied for a position three tiers up to get noticed? Congratulations, it worked -- they noticed, and they asked "hey, if this guy believes he could function well THREE rungs up under normal conditions, I bet he could do a bang-up job ONE rung up on this shitpile. Let's move him into that train wreck, and if he can fix it, he's definitely the kind of guy we want to keep moving up."
Based strictly on how you presented your predicament, I'd say your turning down the one-rung-up promotion would essentially say "no way, man, I want the THREE rung up job", not "no way, man, I don't want to be part of a train wreck." This is bad, because it makes you look arrogant and unrealistic.
Heck, even if it says "no way, man, I don't want to be part of a train wreck", who wants to promote someone who won't jump in and fix problems when they find it? You don't move up the ladder unless you're willing to take the bad with the good.
So I'd personally say, again based exclusively on what you posted (so YMMV), turning down this offer will guarantee two things:
1. You'll get to stay in the position you're currently enjoying.
2. You're going to stay there for a long, long time.
Good luck, whichever you decide.
You don't want to jump onto the Titanic. So, you want to start getting information about that group. Why are they dysfunctional and unproductive? Do they have the resources they need? What is the current leadership like? Who are the people in the group and how do they work together? What are their roles and skills? Can they get the job done? How could you change things for the better? Is the work not as cool, but essential to the organization?
It is easy to imagine that management might be giving you this hard nut to crack to see exactly what you are made of. Are you a leader that can step into a mess and clean it up or are you someone that is opportunistic and climbs up the ladder on the coat tails of others?
Bad assignments that need to get done and that you can step up to the plate and get done well - well, you can't get much better of a definition of opportunity.
On the other hand, you don't want to take some meaningless or unachievable task that leads nowhere.
Assess the situation, take your best guess and then get to work.
My (limited) background: I've been in Tech for 10+ years, some of it as a manager, VP, SVP. I've actually gone up the ladder, gone back to being technical (coder/architect) and gone back up to management. And I've had my share of people refuse 'promotions'. I disagree with the guy who said "you're obviously the wrong person for the job." Some of the most intelligent managers out there know when to avoid a mess. I personally would much prefer choosing someone who recognizes the mess over someone who is just excited to be managing.
The answer to your particular situation depends a lot on your corporate culture. The following questions might help clarify things:
* What happens to managers who fail in your company? Are they fired? Do they get another chance?
* Does the company routinely promote technical people into management? Or do they prefer bringing in outside people? Or do they just keep the managers they have? Or to put it another way, is this your last chance? Or will there be more opportunities?
* Are you highly valued? That is, if someone says "Hmmm... X, Y, and Z are great", are you X, Y, or Z? [A mediocre worker might need to seize at any opportunity. A great one will probably get several chances.]
Some other thoughts:
* If the team is really so dysfunctional, then it's unlikely that someone new to management will be able to fix it. It sounds like they need someone seasoned enough in management to be able to use their authority easily, discern whose opinions can be trusted, defuse the existing problems, etc. You might not be a good choice.
* Make SURE that you get the authority to remove people from the project. Without requiring someone else's approval. Otherwise, you might get stuck with a bad team and the inability to fix it. (Hiring the right people is really the greatest tool a manager has - everything else pales in comparison to having the right people on the team.)
* If you don't want to take the job, you need a good excuse why you shouldn't. 'The project isn't cool' is terrible - and, at least for me, would prevent you from ever getting considered for another promotion. I want managers I can depend on, even when the work is boring but necessary.
* A good excuse might be something like: "I appreciate the offer, but our team is really working well right now and I don't feel right about abandoning them at this crucial point." or "I think we're on the verge of some critical research right now, and I would really like to stay on the team." If you can subtly make the point "well, I could do it but I think there are other things that are more important for me to do", you would be in the best position.
* Finally, if you do take the position: There is absolutely nothing (in my opinion) so kickass as turning a dysfunctional team into a functional one. For me, it rivals any coding that I've ever done. The perception that "oh, THAT team will definitely get it done." is great - and when you know you turned it around, that's a bonus.
If you become the CEO of a troubled company and it fails it doesn't reflect poorly on you. Once you've joined the "CEO" club you're golden. All potential companies looking to hire you as their new CEO care about is that you have already been a CEO. Ignore the fact that your previous companies have failed miserably.
Invalid Checksum. Retrying.
can you ask for responsibility then expect to pick only easy jobs?
take the job and turn the team around! you WILL be overlooked next time if you can't show some determination.
Your management seems to be giving you an opportunity to demonstrate you are capable of increased responsibility, but you seem reluctant to step up to the plate. You can't always pick your assignments, you know. You are going to have to decide what is more important, your ambition or your comfort level. As Bill the Bard put it, ambition should be made of sterner stuff. If you turn down this opportunity, you will probably be passed over at the next opportunity for somebody who is more about fixing problems than avoiding them.
"...and that wraps up current strategy. Lastly, the flubinator team needs to be discussed. Is this a viable project? Is it time to abandon that project? Can we do so without losing any valuable employees?"
"Well, sir, I feel we've nursed them along long enough. Even if the idea could pan out, it isn't going anywhere with that team, and I suspect we can do nothing about it. The team lead is the only person worth keeping, as he has all the team data worth keeping. We need to move him somewhere safe, without alerting the remainder of the team before we kick-ban them from our servers..."
random chuckles around the table
"Hey, you remember that guy who applied for my last position, three rungs above himself? Like he could come close to replacing me. Anyway, what if we 'promote' him to the team lead, let him do the dirty work, and then if there's room somewhere else in the company he can start at the bottom again?"
"Sound goods. The donuts are gone and tee time's in 15 minutes, we'd best be ending the meeting. Anything else?"
silence...
"Good day everyone."
-Adam
Obviously, these guys are putting a lot of confidence in you. Do you think that upper management normally hands over fixing a dysfunctional team to someone who has yet to have any leadership experience? No, normally, that is a job that's given to veterans.
You need to do a few things before you take the job. Firstly, you need to find out everything you can about the people working on that team, the ex-management, the project, it's history, and what-not -- everything! -- before you meet any of the members of the team. You need to walk in there knowing the situation from day one. Secondly, you need to talk to your superior who offered you the job about what he thinks is wrong with the team and some general ideas he might have. You should also ask him to get you in touch with the best managers at the company, preferrably one's who have done turn-around jobs. Thirdly, you need to make sure you're walking in there with absolute authority to hire, fire, and discipline workers. You can't have those on your team second-guessing everything you say and jumping over your head to higher management. Fourthly, you need to understand exactly what your superiors expect from you, and the possible consequences of not succeeding. If this is something they really don't expect to be turned around, they probably won't hold it against you for failing.
Once your introduced to your team, you need to assume immediate authority as to what's going to go on, but you should also be receptive to inputs from your team-members.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
I'm about to change jobs. I had an opportunity to help a different department with a critical operation. The work was very different to my existing job and it wasn't exactly clear what I would be doing. I'd been assigned to help a specialist who had no idea of how to get best value from me, so I found out who the main mover, (Project Manager), was and he gave me the low down on the main issues. He also gave me the opportunity to get involved at a level that had not been considered by the folk that had drafted me in.
They got value from me for sure! There was the reward of having a very real impact on business.
It occured to me that my old job = boredom = stress. I actually dreaded going to work back then. On returning to the old job, nothing had changed. WRONG!!! I had changed!
Give me a project, procedures, a remit and resources and I'll deliver. Left in a rut, doing the same old tasks, there is no challenge and no job satisfaction for me.
Don't get me wrong. The folk I've been working with are decent, peaceable and well meaning. However, that place has been like Kryptonite to my soul. The management structure changed recently, a bit too late, potentially giving me more say in how things are done. This is where the hint of doubt can creep in and say " look, you can stay here and it'll all be fine and dandy".
Yeah sure! Like last year and the year before. My position had already been compromised. There are times in life, jobs, projects, frienships and relationships, where each party is pulled towards divergent paths.
It may be the hardest path to take but choose the one which allows you to grow as a person.
One cautionary note. You can be a no limits person but be sure that you retain a sense of balance and
ask yourself the question "why do I want this?". If you have the answer - go forward.
Good luck!
My hyperlinks aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
Better to serve in Heaven than to rule in Hell.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Working on shitty projects almost made me burn out of software development entirely, yet I see other people whore themselves to these projects year in year out with out a care in the world. It makes me thankful for diversity, that for every shitty job, there's someone just as shitty to take it.
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
First off I would sit down with your manager and discuss your issues with the other team, try not to be negative. See what they want, maybe they hope you can turn the other team around (doing so would be a big feaather in your cap) or maybe managment doesn't understand how bad the other team is. I guess the important thing is to try and understand both sides and make sure managment understands your posistion. Just remeber if you turn it down they might not offer you another one for a long time if ever.
I am sure that this is intended as a test. The real question is will they let you do what is necessary to succeed? Find out before you say yes. Go to the person who would be your boss and tell them you are excited about the challenge, but things are in serious need of fixin'. Then make sure they will give you the control you need to make it work before you say yes.
* Make SURE that you get the authority to remove people from the project. Without requiring someone else's approval. Otherwise, you might get stuck with a bad team and the inability to fix it. (Hiring the right people is really the greatest tool a manager has - everything else pales in comparison to having the right people on the team.)
This is the golden nugget of information and this is why I would never accept a management position over people who were not up to the job. If the company is willing to get rid of them, why have they not done so already? The options for incompetents are:
* Train them into competency
* Move them somewhere that they will cope
* Bring in better staff to do their job and let them fester away
* Make them leave, somehow.
If none of these have been tried, then what makes you think you'll be given the resources or authority to do them yourself? It's not exactly rocket science. Unless the previous manager was a complete incompetent too, and didn't comminicate the issues to his own boss.
Of course, if the problem is not competency but motivation, then the job is far easier, if you are yourself strongly motivated. Motivation is contagious. Strongly motivated people motivate those around them, just by being keen. This is not so much a skill but a predisposition.
Well, this is how I see it from my lowly position of tech grunt, anyway.
Yours Sincerely, Michael.
Ultimately it's your decision and you will probably hear just as many "just do it's" as "don't touch it with a ten foot pole."
Personally though, I'd take it in a heartbeat. Why? Because I know I can do it. I am two years out of my undergrad, been taking classes at night and almost have my grad degree (both in engineering). I have a lot of leadership experience and fully expect (granted, part of this is ego) to be CEO of a company or President of this country one day.
I know I can succeed, I just need to prove it to others, and this is the perfect chance.
Successful people didn't become successful by taking the safe road, they took chances, took a risk and succeeded. If you aren't up for a challenge like this, you probably won't get as far as you hope. Take the risk, that's what I would do.
-dave
/., where "Apple and Google provide Iran with nukes" will be refuted with "But Microsoft is a convicted monopolist"
Wanna know what's cool? Taking a group of people working on an unsuccessful project and helping them turn both themselves and it around. There's nothing quite so satisfying as helping someone put their career back on track and watching them become successful in their own right.
Some advice:
Good luck and welcome to the team. Management can be very rewarding when done right.
You know your company better than I do, but most places are willing to give you a second chance at a promotion . . . someday. Think of it as one "turn down promotion free" card before you aren't asked again.
That said, if the person who will be evaluating you if you take the promotion and fail is not the same as the current person evaluating you in your team's project, and if your new manager/supervisor/boss wouldn't be too understanding about if the new project fails (or needs someone to pin the blame on if it would fall on their shoulders otherwise), try to say "thanks, but no thanks."
You say the current team is a mess. Management probably know that and want you to fix it. So the question to you is - can you fix it?
If you cannot, you'll have a miserable time working with people you don't get on with on a "less cool" project. And you'll probably end up with a blot on your CV which will take a bit of rubbing out.
But that is the downside. The upside is that, if you can fix the team, you'll have a great time because your achieveing something (in human rather than technical terms). The un-coolness won't matter, and you'll have gold star on your CV.
So it is time to do a bit of self-evaluation. Are you up to it? Of course, you cannot know, but you can make a guess. And then you have to take a risk. But it is a risk either way. If you go for it, you may fail. If you don't it may be a while until the next opportunity comes along (though it will - very few things are Once In A Lifetime).
Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
This is known as 'eliminate the assholes', of Dilbert fame. Trouble is, are you being given this job to elimiate the assholes in the team, or are you the asshole they want to eliminate. Also, is your organisation healthy or is it a beaurocratic nightmare? If I got a job 3 rungs up, I'd be CEO, but your place sounds a bit like a 'Yes Minister' sketch: "I'm the Permanent Secretary, I report to the Cabinet Secretary, Bernard is your Principal Private Secretary he works for you, but reports to me. Bernard has 2 Private Secretaries, I have 3 Assistant Permanent Secretaries." "Do you all type?" "Gosh no, Mrs Briggs does that, shes the secretary" So it sounds like you might do well to get a bit Machiavelian, and take your new job on the condition that you can move sideways to a safe harbour if it doesnt work out. Say you are only doing the new job to get a bit of experiance. Perhaps you need to work out who is supporting this promotion, do they dislike you, are they using you to get at the guy you will be replacing, or is it a genuine offer?
**TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
You being setup. Find out by whom and what their goals are.
First of all, can you turn this team around? It doesn't matter what anyone's goals are if you can bring the team around. In fact nothing will look better than to have low guys publicly thanking you for turning the team around. (Depending on your orginization... at one job the GUI team was turned around and everyone on the project thanked the new manager for getting them to join the team)
If you are not sure you can turn it around, now you have to reseach. (Odds are you can't be 100% sure) Make sure your research is public, if they don't see you thinking hard about this they will conclude you don't care. (You might or might not get another chance)
I'd start with the guy 4 above you, the one who you wanted to be your boss when you applied for the roll 3 above you, and see what he knows. Get 1/2 and hour with him, and chat about it. If he set you up hoping you can turn this around, then you must take it, this is a test of your abilites, failure might be expected, and he wants to see how you handle it, and how close to success you get anyway. If he knows nothing about this, at least he knows that someone is setting you up, and knows what you look like, and might even look for you.
Next talk to your potential new boss about the team. Tell him your concerns, and see if he agrees, and what he wants from you. See if he wants you to do well or not.
Find out who wants you to fail. People might or might not know about your application to the higher position, but if they know some will see you as compitition to destroy. If you are any good someone will hate you no matter what you do. You have to deal with them, part of the job, so make sure you do. Don't let politics at your level affect those below you. Don't ignore politics though, that is dangerious.
What is your family situation? If you are heavily in debt you might be better off taking easy positions that will not move you up, but at least you won't have live on unemployment when/if they cut the failing project. If your spouse is power hungry and you want to keep him/her you might be forced to jump at this opportunity.
Don't be afraid to take this position just for experience knowing you will fail. You will have the position on your resume, which might be what it takes to get the next job elsewhere.
Make your decision. Don't ignore the advice of others, but you have to decide for yourself.