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NASA Prepares to Open Source Code

comforteagle writes "According to this story at O'Reilly, NASA is looking for approval for their own open source license. The NASA submitter (lawyer of course) states that none of the current licenses meet their needs, but more interesting is that NASA needs a license at all. It makes one wonder what we, and other space agencies, might see coming out off NASA. It's also nice to see code that taxpayers paid for anyway being released for their use too. There must be at least one slashdotter who could dream up a use for NASA software. X Prize participants maybe?"

110 of 330 comments (clear)

  1. Government Copyright by The+Snowman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought all goverment programs were automatically uncopyrighted, not even public domain? Like they were completely outside of the copyright system.

    --
    24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
    1. Re:Government Copyright by hcetSJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But I'm sure there are some private contractors somewhere along the line, and so what about their software?

      --

      This side up.
    2. Re:Government Copyright by overshoot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is the code written for the Government. Arguably, we should have access to it since we paid for it, but the authors have the copyright. Thus NASA's need for a special written-by-Government-contract-but-licensed-to-the -world license.

      --
      Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    3. Re:Government Copyright by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
      You are basicaly correct.

      U.S. Code Title 17 Chapter 1 Section 101:
      A "work of the United States Government" is a work prepared by an officer or employee of the United States Government as part of that person's official duties.
      and from Section 105:
      Copyright protection under this title is not available for any work of the United States Government, but the United States Government is not precluded from receiving and holding copyrights transferred to it by assignment, bequest, or otherwise.
      Although I will say that NASA seems to act like it owns the copyright on the images it produces.
    4. Re:Government Copyright by UnderScan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not necessarily so, if the coding was done as a "work made for hire". If made, researched, wrote, composed etc. as a work made for hire, you essentially renouce your copyrights to the employer.
      From Section 201, Copyright Act of 1976
      (a) Copyright in a work protected under this title vests initially in the author or authors of the work. The authors of a joint work are co-owners of copyright in the work.

      (b) In the case of a work made for hire, the employer or other person for whom the work was prepared is considered the author for purposes of this title, and, unless the parties have expressly agreed otherwise in a written instrument signed by them, owns all of the rights comprised in the copyright.

    5. Re:Government Copyright by diersing · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wouldn't that be nice... Skunkworks code ;)

    6. Re:Government Copyright by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yup. Just go the NSA website and download your own copy of Echelon, citizen!

    7. Re:Government Copyright by Sepodati · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They are public domain unless there are security reasons to not release the code. I just went through this with a program I wrote for DOD. Under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), you can request the source code to any program. Not saying they'll approve it, but unless there are "national security" type reasons, they should. In order for me to get a copy of my program to continue to develop and distribute on my own, I had to do a FOIA request on myself. :)

      ---John Holmes...

    8. Re:Government Copyright by djcinsb · · Score: 5, Interesting

      But I'm sure there are some private contractors somewhere along the line, and so what about their software?

      That is exactly the point here. I'm working as a contractor on one of the pieces of software that started this effort. Basically, we'd like to release the software as open source so that we can get universities and others involved in the project, but still retain some level of control over it (and get some free publicity at the same time).

      The goal isn't to keep others out of the process -- it's to get others involved, while making sure the final software product is of high quality. After all, if the software you're building is being used to fly spacecraft, you want to be sure it gives accurate answers.

      --
      A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name. -- Evan Esar
    9. Re:Government Copyright by Artifakt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just downloaded the NSA's version of the Linux 2.6 Kernal, which they are distributing freely as a highly secure Linux. (Truth). Next time I'm there, I'll have to see if they've posted Echelon's source code.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    10. Re:Government Copyright by nettdata · · Score: 3, Informative

      Moderators:

      This is NOT a troll... the Skunkworks was the REALLY COOL department of Lockheed Martin that created all of their super-secret, very cool stuff.

      Check out this link for some of the books written about them.

      Personally, I'd be VERY interested in some of their code.

      --



      $0.02 (CDN)
    11. Re:Government Copyright by JimDabell · · Score: 3, Informative

      Although I will say that NASA seems to act like it owns the copyright on the images it produces.

      It seems to be pretty clear to me:

      Photographs are not protected by copyright unless noted. If copyrighted, permission should be obtained from the copyright owner prior to use. If not copyrighted, photographs may be reproduced and distributed without further permission from NASA. If a recognizable person appears in a photograph, use for commercial purposes may infringe a right of privacy or publicity and permission should be obtained from the recognizable person.

    12. Re:Government Copyright by tiger99 · · Score: 2, Informative
      IIRC, some of the old DEC PDP-8 operating systems were either public domain or copyright free because thay had been written for the government. Certainly they were free to the end user. I never saw source code, don't know on what terms that would have been available, but as was the practice in those days it probably came for the cost of a tape plus a handling charge. I am sure some other older people out there will remember. That was not true on later PDP-8s with floppy drives, which used a proprietary DEC OS.

      The reason I found this out BTW was that I wanted to build myself a computer. We had a PBP-8 at work (with discs and licensed OS), but to get some sort of commonality I was thinking about using the Intersil IM-6100, which was a PDP-8 on a chip, and I needed an OS. I found that some of the DEC stuff was available, what finally killed the project was the cost of the optos for a paper tape reader, needed to load the bootstrap and then the OS. IIRC the phototransistor array for the reader head was going to cost about 50 UKP, which was a lot of money at the time, so I never built my own PDP-8.

      Maybe the government-funded PDP-8 software actually started open source,in the sense of a commodity product which achieved significant distribution. Certainly the user group, DECUS, were the first such thing of any importance.

    13. Re:Government Copyright by PixelThis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's why many contractors develop their software under their own R&D efforts and sell the government the analysis work that they do with the code, or rights to use the code while maintaining the copyright themselves.

      I've been involved with several contracts where we (largish aerospace firm) were concerned about that if we developed code under contract to the government ultimately we'd be giving that code away to our competitors. So unless the original government request-for-proposal said that they wanted us to develop software for them, software was almost always written using company funds in a parallel effort.

      It gives the IP lawyers fits when source code is accidentally public domained.

    14. Re:Government Copyright by JacobKreutzfeld · · Score: 3, Informative
      I'm a consultant working as a contractor for NASA. I've been involved in writing two pieces of code we use here which were based on open-source tools. I'd like to give these back to the community, since they helped us, and I think are generally useful: one's an "SSL VPN" (reverse proxy into intranet web and SMB fileshares, in Java); the other's a Web GUI front end for adminning a qmail-ldap mail cluster, in PHP.

      I'm having a heck of a time finding what NASA's position is on giving the code away. Issues presented have been code security (what if my login page can be hacked?) and contractor vs. government ownership (but the contractor got paid for the work, right?).

      Still working through the process, hoping the code will see the light of day before it becomes obsolete/irrelevant.

  2. Absolutely by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There must be at least one slashdotter who could dream up a use for NASA software.

    Absolutely there is. I can think of a number of potential applications of NASA image processing software to our research in neuroscience. Right now, we are having to either purchase code written for the GIS markets to do what we want, custom write routines in a language such as IDL, or get some computer science graduate students to work for us custom creating code. We are doing the first two and I am going to start recruiting CS grad. students next week, but things might go a lot faster if we already had a source code base to start with.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Absolutely by corian · · Score: 4, Funny

      It might also be very beneficial to go through the code and clearly label which values are imperial measurements and which are metric.

    2. Re:Absolutely by Ieshan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just wondering, have you seen Laurent Itti's code? Neat stuff.

      (http://ilab.usc.edu)

    3. Re:Absolutely by goon+america · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Instead of "dreaming up a use for NASA software," I'd getting a pretty damn big thrill out of fixing bugs in NASA software. Heck, this could overcome Linux in a few years.

    4. Re:Absolutely by mog007 · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's easy:

      void mars_lander()
      {
      int dist;

      dist = to_ground(position,z); /* dist = dist * .3048
      * let's see what happens when we comment the
      * conversion!
      *
      / /* Someone please uncomment that before we compile... --Tim*/

      land(dist);
      }

    5. Re:Absolutely by BWJones · · Score: 3, Informative

      Out of curiosity, which NASA image processing software are you referring to?

      Specifically, I am interested in code that can perform automated image mosaicing, also automated registration of images obtained through different modalities and code that will allow unsupervised k-means and/or ISODATA image classification/clustering of multispectral images.

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    6. Re:Absolutely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
      Hey, for all of you out there who are in this position...

      Please contact a NASA center and start asking around about doing joint research. NASA has a lot of research funding that requires joint work with a university, but you've got to hook up with the right researcher to get it. Every NASA center has an office that will help you find the people most likely to help you.

      Believe me, if you need that image processing code and you are a university, a joint research agreement will get you a lot of help. If you need some other kind of code, and you think NASA has it, start calling around! It may be a bit of work, but you'll be surprised how eager many NASA researchers are to work with you.

    7. Re:Absolutely by K8Fan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personally, I really, really really want and need the famed VISAR (Video Image Stabilization and Registration) software. This was used recently by to improve the quality in the security camera video in the recent abduction and murder of Carlie Brucia.

      "Commercialized by Intergraph"? Where's my check from Intergraph then? If it was developed with tax dollars, it should be open sourced so it can be commercialized (or not) by everyone. That will have the most salutary effect on the economy - not one, but dozens of companies improving the quality of video.

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    8. Re:Absolutely by FleaPlus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      NASA has software for automatic image mosaicing? That would be really cool. I used to do research in a neurobiology lab, and I remember the people in the lab spent quite a bit of time manually putting together mosaics of pictures of neurons from the microscope. I actually tried to put some code together myself for the problem, but got diverted towards other things.

    9. Re:Absolutely by Kirth · · Score: 4, Funny

      Its all metric. At least its _supposed_ to be all metric. NASA employees using imperial measurements are to be deported to Leeds/England where they may assume a position at a pub in order to exercise their right of using imperial measurements in describing quantities of beer. "Well, I used to work as rocket scientist at NASA, but since they don't calculate fuel in pints they sent me here".
      --

      --
      "The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
    10. Re:Absolutely by Nissyen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not sure what sort of image processing software NASA has. Astronomers are mostly using packages that are publically available, but not maintained by NASA. For the Magellan mission, Peter Ford at MIT made a great package called GIPS to reduce all the data. IPAC tends to make the image reduction pipelines for several missions as well as some ground based observatories, and they have some public domain software. The space telescope science institute has made their analysis software, built for hubble, publically available. They even contribute to open source numerical python libraries.

  3. Sad by ObviousGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's sad that NASA won't simply release the code into the public domain.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    1. Re:Sad by catbutt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why not GPL (or similar) though? By making it GPL, they would force others to keep their modifications open, which is good for all. (at least that is the argument for GPL over BSD, and it seems to apply here just as well as in other places)

    2. Re:Sad by ObviousGuy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The BSD license keeps the licensed code open. The GPL wrests any code intermingled with the licensed code into the open.

      There's no need for that kind of anti-proprietary bullying, is there?

      --
      I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    3. Re:Sad by Harry8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, that's exactly right.
      And as I was just looking at the Windows 95 source to fix a few of those annoying bugs I was thingking, "Good thing Microsoft used the BSD TCP/IP stack, otherwise they'd have gone broke trying to sell an OS that 'didn't do the internet' and their code wouldn't be open source."

      I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be offensive. It's an important point about licensing we should all understand.

      Yes, you can check out the BSD TCP/IP stack source.
      No you cannot see how Micorsoft ported it to work with Windows 95. So no, the code in Win 95 is not open. Should the problems that piece of code porting presented come up again somewhere else, someone will sweat re-inventing similar solutions. Effort duplication.

      So I guess I'm saying that the GPL & LGPL are good enough for me.

    4. Re:Sad by modipodio · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You would only have to publish the changes you made to gpl code if you intended to distrubute your software publicly. If a company did this and kept their program in house they would not have to publish the changes they made

      --
      __________________________________________________ "UNIX is a fascist state, Windows is a democracy.
  4. NASA, eh? by Faust7 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Jeez, who's next, Microsoft?

    1. Re:NASA, eh? by cujo_1111 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When NASA wants to try and buy out the European Space Agency, then you can start making equivalancies between NASA and MS.

      Until that point in time, treat NASA with some respect.

      --
      If I point out that you are incorrect, making me a foe does not make you any more correct.
    2. Re:NASA, eh? by CeleronXL · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well no, Microsoft isn't next, Microsoft was before this. ;)

    3. Re:NASA, eh? by commodoresloat · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is another hoax people. There is no license and there is no source code. There's just a bunch of letters and numbers built to look like code. The whole thing was faked.

  5. Do it now! by Rope_a_Dope · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am most having got need for rocket open source. Now do open source me want for get. Sincerely, North Korean Military

  6. RE: NASA Prepares to Open Source Code by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, Microsoft already did so earlier today, so NASA is a bit behind the times for this one. [wink]

  7. NASA'Sdoom by i_am_syco · · Score: 2, Funny

    John Carmack could do it. A little upgrade to the equipment, and the space shuttles might be powerful enough to play Doom.

    1. Re:NASA'Sdoom by DarthWiggle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The thing about it is that it seems that any NASA source code would be a monument to overbuilt, overengineered, triply-redundant failsafeness. This isn't entirely on point to your (witty) comment, but, I dunno... it seems like looking at this code might be like looking on some absolute crystal perfection of 1960s-1970s code-writing. No fancy classes or object-orientedness. None of this fun stuff. Just raw, uninteresting, bulletproof code (well, except that one little bit that forgot how much flash memory the rovers have... and the unit conversion problem... ok, anyway).

      My question is: how much would we learn from this? When people writing code for business are optimizing for speed and redundancy mainly in the parallel sense (i.e., a failsafe swap to a sister server), how RELEVANT is that to blocks of code written never, ever, ever, ever, ever to fail on tested but "outdated" hardware?

      Furthermore, if we ever get around to privately-built spacecraft, how much NASA code will they want to use? I dunno, it's a neat idea in an historical sense, and it's an admirable sign of government openness when the government is more and more closed to us citizens... but is it more?

      I'm not saying it's not. I'm just curious how it would be. Is NASA /really/ churning out scientific algorithms that are far superior to those coming out of the private sector or universities? (Note that I'm not trashing NASA software folks... I'm just saying they write code for an almost entirely different set of priorities.)

      Or maybe not?

    2. Re:NASA'Sdoom by sdedeo · · Score: 4, Informative
      It's hard to judge superiority when the applications are often very specific; my experience with the code that gets passed from researcher to researcher is that it often works extremely well and can be adapted and extended a great deal. See, for example, CMBFAST, the code used to compute predicted anisotropies in the cosmic microwave background. Not only have people have parallelized it or sped it up (trading off for accuracy), but over the years it has been extended to test more and more exotic physics.

      But code quality aside, what about applications elsewhere? NASA's codebase presumably does a wide variety of things in addition to running gazillion-ly redundant life support on the space shuttle. Think about all the design and testing it does of hardware, the software it writes for image processing and signal analysis, running the deep space network. How about making models of satellite structural integrity? Surely something useful -- although it might take someone within the field to realize the similarity between a problem they face and one NASA has already solved.

      And, of course, scientists love to write their own tools for text editing, data analysis (often these are incredibly powerful and extendable -- naturally more so than, say, commercial software products which remain close-sourced), collaboration software, yadda yadda ad infinitum

      --
      Protect your liberties. Donate to the ACLU
  8. Sweet! by hcetSJ · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've built this six-wheeled golf cart in my back yard, and I was hoping to find a good OS for it!

    --

    This side up.
    1. Re:Sweet! by Reverend528 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I recommend testing it for at least 9 days.

    2. Re:Sweet! by zcasper · · Score: 2, Insightful
  9. space agencies in other countries too? by xot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    with me being in another country,would i be able to use the [OPEN] source code for my government space agency? Would the US govt permit that, nasa being a govt agency.
    They would probably only release code which would not benefint most people don't you think? ;-)

    --
    Lord of the Binges.
  10. Text of Article Here: by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 2, Informative

    From http://news.osdir.com/article448.html

    Open Source: NASA's Open Source Licensing
    Posted Feb 12, 2004 - 11:45 AM

    Bryan A. Geurts, Patent Attorney, for NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center has submitted a first draft of their NASA OPEN SOURCE AGREEMENT to the Open Source Initiative for approval. (No link available at publishing time)

    More interesting is that fact that they are looking for such approval. The obvious question is what will be released to the community and other space agencies once the license is approved to meet the open source definition.

    A copy of the draft submission can be found on the Open Source Initiative mailing list here.

    Bryan states in his submission that "None of these agreements suffice on its own or combined together for purposes of NASA for the following reasons:

    i. NASA legal counsel requires that all NASA releases of software include indemnification of the U.S. Government from any third party liability arising from use or distribution of the software. See 4.B.

    ii. Federal Statute mandates that the U.S. Government can only be held subject to United States federal law. See 5.C.

    iii. NASA policy requires an effort to accurately track usage of released software for documentation and benefits realized?purposes. See 3.F.

    iv. Federeal Statutes and NASA regulations requires a prohibition in NASA contracts against representations by others that may be deemed to be an endorsement by NASA. See 3.E.

    v. Because it is important that each of the aforementioned clauses be a part of each open source agreement relating to NASA released software, the proposed agreement must mandate that distribution and redistribution of the software be done under the aegis of NOSA (mandatory domination similar to GPL). See 3.A."

    A copy of the proposed license follows:

    NASA OPEN SOURCE AGREEMENT VERSION 1.1

    THIS OPEN SOURCE AGREEMENT ("AGREEMENT") DEFINES THE RIGHTS OF USE,
    REPRODUCTION, DISTRIBUTION, MODIFICATION AND REDISTRIBUTION OF CERTAIN
    COMPUTER SOFTWARE ORIGINALLY RELEASED BY THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
    AS REPRESENTED BY THE NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION
    ("NASA"). ANYONE WHO USES, REPRODUCES, DISTRIBUTES, MODIFIES OR
    REDISTRIBUTES THE SUBJECT SOFTWARE, AS DEFINED HEREIN, OR ANY PART
    THEREOF, IS, BY THAT ACTION, ACCEPTING IN FULL THE RESPONSIBILITIES
    AND OBLIGATIONS CONTAINED IN THIS AGREEMENT.

    NASA Original Software Designation:

    NASA Original Software Title:

    User Registration requested, please visit http://www.

    NASA Point of Contact for Original Software:

    1. DEFINITIONS

    A. "Contributor" means NASA, as the developer of the Original
    Software, and any entity that makes a Modification.
    B. "Covered Patents" mean patent claims licensable by a Contributor
    that are necessarily infringed by the use or sale of its Modification
    alone or when combined with the Subject Software.
    C. "Display" means the showing of a copy of the Subject Software,
    either directly or by means of an image, or any other device.
    D. "Distribution" means conveyance or transfer of the Subject
    Software, regardless of means, to another.
    E. "Larger Work" means computer software that combines Subject
    Software, or portions thereof, with software separate from the Subject
    Software that is not governed by the terms of this Agreement.
    F. "Modification" means any alteration of, including addition to or
    deletion from, the substance or structure of either the Original
    Software or Subject Software, and includes derivative works, as that
    term is defined in the Copyright Statute, 17 USC 101. However, the
    act of including Subject Software as part of a Larger Work does not in
    and of itself constitute a Modification.
    G. "Original Software" means the computer software first released
    under this Agreement by NASA with NASA designation and
    entitled , including
    source code, object code and accompanying docum

    --
    Huh?
  11. Not limited to space applications, by any means! by Robotbeat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    NASA's first "A" stands for "Aeronatics", and that's only part of their name. Lots of applications can be thought of. For instance, the source for their 3d ranging application would be very beneficial to many people. I mean, the rovers are able to compute their surroundings in 3d using only 2 cameras. The degree of success and repeatability of these 3d measurements far exceeds any other available 3d ranging software. This type of code could be useful for anyone who wants to make a 3d model of something using only a camera and some precise alignment. Indeed, JPL has a lot of experience in robotics and the gain in knowledge when such code is released is sure to be great for anyone in the field of robotics. Even the Darpa robot competition would be different with such technology freely available.

  12. "We?" by FreemanPatrickHenry · · Score: 3, Funny

    what we, and other space agencies,

    Is this guy referring to Slashdot? ;-)

    --
    I have discovered a truly marvelous .sig which, unfortunately, this space is too small to contain.
  13. Re:Old? by KrispyKringle · · Score: 4, Insightful
    NASA presumably has far more custom software than just what runs on Hubble, etc. What's in use on the Shuttle might be 8086's, but what's in use on the ground for image processing, navigation control, simulation, and so forth is most likely a lot more state-of-the-art.

    NASA does a lot of stuff, and much of it is indeed cutting-edge. Don't discount this so quickly.

  14. since by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    since nasa is gov. funded, this could be great for opensource. May open the eyes of officials that OSS is NOT "un-American" as SCO suggests

  15. Maybe now... by twoslice · · Score: 5, Funny

    We can have more success at landing spacecraft on Mars. At least the metric/imperial error would have been caught before it went to alpha...

    --

    From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
  16. ITAR ITAR ITAR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not likely to be very workable. NASA can't release a lot of stuff because of ITAR restrictions. The US of A treats most space related items as being ITAR Restricted.

    For those asleep at the keyboard, ITAR is International Traffic in Arms Regulations.

    For example, check out Flight Linux:
    http://flightlinux.gsfc.nasa.gov/

    You'll note that even though required by the GPL, NASA refuses to release the sources because of ITAR prohibitions.

    Move along, there is nothing to see here.

    1. Re:ITAR ITAR ITAR by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Wait a second - I don't think you understand the GPL. NASA is only required to provide source code to people who they have provided binaries to. If they have used it internally, they are not obligated to provide source code, though it's generally considered polite to do so if your improvements would be generally useful to the rest of the world. If NASA was selling or distributing binary-only copies of Flight Linux and refusing to provide source code, THAT would be a violation of the GPL.


      Of course it would be nice if they'd realize that a Real Time Embedded OS is not a munition or a satellite control system itself. I understand them not wanting to release the apps that run on it, but surely they could contribute most of the patches to the kernel that they use.

    2. Re:ITAR ITAR ITAR by ender81b · · Score: 2, Informative

      Building a nuclear bomb is not very easy, only 9 countries have accomplished it in the history of the world: US, Soviet Union, China, GB, France, India, Pakistan, Israel and South Africa. It requires extesnive manufacturing compacity and large amounts of very good scientists.

      As for "Wrap in cobalt" you must've been watching too much star trek...

      Civilization might be global but there's absolutely no reason why the US should share technology as advanced as some of the space tech is with the rest of the world and expect nothing in return or exercise no control over it.

  17. Home NASA project? by micromoog · · Score: 5, Funny
    There must be at least one slashdotter who could dream up a use for NASA software. X Prize participants maybe?"

    Darwin Award, maybe?

  18. Re:no GPL by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They won't touch the existing licenses because they are not affected by locality. I'd imagine this will suffer from the usual export restriction bollocks that the US Government likes so much.

    --
    Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
  19. When's it coming out? by AhBeeDoi · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hope NASA gets their Open Source software out soon. I'm getting thoroughly frustrated trying to write an OS for my planetary rover.

  20. Nasa Home Project.. :-) by marcushnk · · Score: 2, Funny

    Mars Rover Security system..

    no more dog poop on the lawn ;-)

    --
    "Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
  21. Sweet! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 5, Funny

    I've been itching to get my hands on NASA's Photoshop filters since 1969!

  22. They've released stuff before by fayd · · Score: 3, Informative

    This was originally developed while he (Gary Riley) worked for NASA at the Johnson Space Cener. It was available in source form since before I started working with it in 1993.

  23. Re:no GPL by Quill_28 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I completely agree.

    It would be flat out wrong for tax supported software to be made and then not be able to be used by businesses that helped pay for the software.

  24. Imagine a Beow... by qtp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nasa seemed happy releasing code under the GPL for quite some time, and I find it odd that that is changing now.

    Ever use a network card under Linux, much of the networking code came from NASA (mostly from Donald Becker).

    Still dreaming about that Beowulf cluster? That also came out of NASA.

    Perhaps the lawyers felt left out, so they're trying to do thier part and look useful. Why would NASA find that a license that has served them well for years needs replacing? Any lawyers opine on the new license yet?

    --
    Read, L
  25. Re:Old? by bogasity · · Score: 2

    NASA, like any large organization, uses a variety of hardware new and old for different needs. NASA has some software that I have never seen a hint of in the OSS world, and which could be of major significance to outside users. While there has been talk of open-sourcing various projects, no one knew what the process would be. I'm glad to see that someone at Goddard has taken the lead on this.

  26. One possible thing.... by borgheron · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As an enginneer who once worked for NASA (through a contractor), I can tell you that there are many pieces of software created at NASA which are useful outside of the space program.

    This might be one possible use for such a thing.

    GJC

    --
    Gregory Casamento
    ## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
  27. Re:Old? by vondo · · Score: 4, Informative
    Not to mention that they probably have plenty of stuff completely unrelated to science. Management software, utilities anyone might find useful, etc.

    For instance, nedit, a great editor for people coming from Windows/Mac, was developed by Fermilab, a particle physics laboratory.

  28. Good imaging software by Kurt+Gray · · Score: 5, Funny

    I get the impression that NASA develops a lot of software for image processing. I'm picturing some really powerful GIMP plug-ins... "Make Mars Red", "Color Galaxy", "Add UFO"....

  29. Liscence??? by snyps · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "but more interesting is that NASA needs a license at all" A political system relies on a set of rules that applies to EVERYONE . If these rules are no obeyed, even if it is the government itself the system falls apart. But even if they did not require one it would still be bad publicity since they would then be thought of as "Big Brother". (-5 flamebait here i come!!!)

  30. Re:Old? by BoneFlower · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, the code on the older hardware may well be the most impressive. IIRC, the software that runs the Space Shuttle is the most bug free non-trivial program ever written. On hardware from the late 70's and early 80's.

    I think there might be a few "Holy crap you can do that!?!?!!?" moments reading those sources. Tight optimizations, tricks for doing things that normally require massive support libraries linked together... might be some interesting techniques there.

  31. About time by Adam_Trask · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I have collaborated with NASA scientists, and you would be surprised how difficult it is for me (not being a NASA employee) to get the code written on NASA machines, even for the same project! They have to go thru a lot of (and i guess, agonizing) paperwork before they release any NASA-grown software. It has been easier for me (and them) to reinvent the wheel more than once at my lab.

    For those wondering about the software produced, they employ folks from all branches of knowledge. Except finance, me thinks.

  32. I know who has a use.. by caldroun · · Score: 2, Funny

    There is a joke in here somewhere about the esa using the code to actually get a lander on Mars, in one piece. Ok, that was uncalled for.

    --
    "If you have done 6 impossible things this morning, why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways" -- hhgg
  33. I hope this catches on... by RyanFenton · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It would be cool to see other nations being able to make useful progress in non-weapons science, being able to actively thank and give tribute to NASA advancements along the way.

    I just hope the sharing might keep going if it starts being seen as a good thing. For some reason, I get the impression we'll get some crazy results too, like French agencies stipulating that no documents may be translated to non-French and still be visible in France. Still, it's definetly problems I'd rather have to deal with then not.

    Ryan Fenton

  34. loopholes by SHEENmaster · · Score: 2, Funny

    yeah, but the loopholes are so large that NASA fell through without anyone realizing it.

    --
    You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
  35. Can't wait. by blair1q · · Score: 2, Funny


    30 years from now, Man finally lands on Mars, and finds one of the 2010 batch of rovers, and, spelled out in its tire tracks...

    "FIRST POST!"

  36. A proposed omnibus space commercialization act by Baldrson · · Score: 3, Informative
    From a proposed omnibus space commercialization act:
    SEC. 703. DISPOSITION OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS TO INVENTIONS MADE UNDER GOVERNMENT SPONSORSHIP.
    (A) GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED INVENTIONS TO BECOME PUBLIC PROPERTY.--Any invention reduced to practice under partial or total government support must immediately be placed in the public domain.
    (B) REDUCTION TO PRACTICE TO BE PRIVATELY FINANCED.--Any invention conceptualized under government funding may be patented, and the patent held by the inventor or his assignee, if all work subsequent to the initial realization that a patentable innovation had been made is carried out under private sponsorship.
    (C) GOVERNMENT NOT TO HOLD PATENTS.--The United States government shall hold no space related patents under any circumstances.
  37. Nothing new... by vistas · · Score: 5, Informative

    For over 30 years NASA code was available through a program called COSMIC which was administered at the University of Georgia.

    http://www.cosmic.uga.edu/

    In fact for awhile they operated out of one of the many buildings previously occupied by the 40 Watt Club

    Since 1998 the code has been available through the Open Channel Foundation

    http://www.openchannelfoundation.org/cosmic/

  38. Re:Not limited to space applications, by any means by Robotbeat · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you're refering to Maestro, that is not the code I was refering to. If you look on this page, you will see this picture, which shows some pretty darn good 3d processing for only using a few still cameras! And if you look here, you will find this picture which shows a representation of what the Spirit rover's software uses to find its own way, without need of constant instruction from Earth. Pretty good software, if you ask me! The public Maestro program is pretty slow, but so is Java in general for high-performance applications. Maestro doesn't actually generate the 3d range information from the raw images, it just displays it (and apparently is used to figure out the rover's schedule of stuff to do).

  39. Re:Old? by Ironica · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What's in use on the Shuttle might be 8086's

    Which is more advanced than what's in use for a lot of traffic signal control boxes. They have something like 8 bytes of memory. But they really don't have to do much... just get data about where the cars are, and turn the right lights green for the right amount of time (while not allowing the opposing lights to be green).

    The reason they use such "archaic" hardware, even in brand-new boxes, is because they have to withstand ambient temperatures up to 150 degrees farenheit for long periods of the day. The boxes can't be ventilated very much without exposing them to the elements (and destructive teenagers), and it gets hot as an oven inside when the sun is hitting them all day.

    I imagine all kinds of infrastructure that needs redundancy and reliability over flexibility and power would find NASA's code useful in one way or another. (Even if it's just as an example of what NOT to do. ;-)

    --
    Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
  40. Re:space agencies in other countries too? by Honor · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Although the US will probably not allow it, sharing the code between countries would be benificial, for both sides. it would probably help other countries develop or improve their space programs, and the feedback that these countries would give the US would help to make it even better. Not only that, but even if it did not benifit the US in any way, it is in the best interests of humanity to develop a good space program.

    If we keep working on this independently, we will have a much harder time of accomplishing our goals than we will if we all work together. But like i said, its not likely to happen. not only will the US want to keep the upper hand in everything, but there is the chance that the code could be used by the wrong countries for malicious purposes - or even possibly independent terrorists. 9/11 #2 anyone? It may be far-fetched, but i'm sure the authorities are taking stuff like that into consideration, because once released the code cannot be unreleased. If only the different countries could for once look for the common good of all the world and work on a collective space program...

  41. Re:Not limited to space applications, by any means by freshmkr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    the source for their 3d ranging application would be very beneficial to many people. I mean, the rovers are able to compute their surroundings in 3d using only 2 cameras. The degree of success and repeatability of these 3d measurements far exceeds any other available 3d ranging software.

    Are you certain of this?

    MER's stereo imaging and navigation software is indeed well made. Still, I suspect it's incorrect to claim that it is the best ever written. Stereo imaging and 3-D structure from motion are very well established fields, and improvement is ongoing. It would probably be straightforward for you to find some recent conference papers and code up something in MATLAB that works better than the rover's flight software.

    The quality of the 3d ranging results from Mars are impressive, but for more reasons than you might suspect. I spent summer 2002 interning at JPL. One day, Mark Maimone, the MER mobility software engineer, mentioned to me that images of Martian terrain (with scattered rocks, etc.) are just about mathematically optimal for stereo ranging. (He wrote his thesis on this stuff.) On Mars, it's easy to find correlations between pixel patterns in images. Now imagine how well it would work if the robot were staring at a blank wall--no vision algorithm can handle that!

    So--don't think that the success of the imaging is just the well-made software.

    JPL has a lot of experience in robotics and the gain in knowledge when such code is released is sure to be great for anyone in the field of robotics.

    True, to a point. Bear in mind that while JPL does work on novel robotics research, they're also extremely concerned about preserving expensive, hard-to-replace robot systems. As a result, a lot of the software is based on well-established systems that, in the research world, have been surpassed a while ago. The rover autonomous navigation software, for example, is related to navigation software written here at Carnegie Mellon some four or five years ago.

    Furthermore, a lot of the research advances made by JPL are presented at conferences and published in journals. It's not like they work in isolation and keep everything quiet. In fact, some of my fellow grad students work on large projects alongside JPL researchers and researchers at other institutions. So, in an academic sense, there's already a lot of sharing going on.

    --Tom

  42. this is good... by highwaytohell · · Score: 2, Interesting

    however when will this be made available and what code will be made available. I mean if we are looking at code thats 15 years old, alot of that code would have already been created by the public and thus already in use. Or will this make any code that is even currently being used available to the public? I'd imagine that alot of software NASA use would be secured under top level agreements so obviously not everything will be made available...

  43. Re:Not limited to space applications, by any means by Robotbeat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Indeed, a lot of sharing IS going on! In fact, I myself have applied for a summer internship at JPL (and other places at NASA) for summer 2004 (I'm crossing my fingers). Even at my own college (i.e. university), we have a few NASA grants and research going on, even though we have a relatively small physics department (about a dozen physics majors per grade). As I mention in another post, Maestro is a publicly available version of NASA software for the rovers.

    That being said, you do have a point as far as 3d imaging. However, I have looked far and wide for something of the calibre of the rovers' software for 3d ranging. The ability to calculate the 3d range info even free of all human intervention is proof of the robustness of the code, however. There is a lot of effort needed to convert research code into an integral part of an robust interplanetary exploration platform. Anyways, I appreciate the insight you have brought and you seem to have some reasonable experience in dealing with NASA in research projects.

  44. Nasa open source code by rezulir · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When I first read about goto staements being harmful when dinsaurs ruled the earth, NASA code was often referred to by my betters as horribly written "spaghetti code". I am no programmer but I would like to see some of this code to see just how bad it supposedly is. Some of it did get us to the moon didn't it?

  45. Why a license at all? by ScottForbes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Can someone explain to me why software written by NASA, a government agency funded by the public, would not by definition belong in the public domain?

    1. Re:Why a license at all? by Detritus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because most of it is written by other entities under contract to NASA. If a civil service employee of NASA writes a program, it isn't copyrighted according to federal law. If a contractor employee writes a program, it is copyrighted. Normally the copyright would be assigned to NASA, who paid for the development of the software.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  46. Not free software by jmv · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...each Recipient, upon receipt of the Subject
    Software, is requested to register with NASA by visiting the following
    website...


    I doubt this statement satisfies the open-source definition. I am *certain* that it doesn't satisfy the Debian Free Software definition, because it fails both the "desert island" and the "chinese dissident" tests.

  47. NASA has released software before by badmammajamma · · Score: 2, Informative

    NASA made their AI engine available in the public domain in 1986. It's called CLIPS. It was written in C, was very portable, and very fast. In fact it's still being updated. The funny thing is that it did what other companies were charging $10,000 for.

    So this is nothing new for NASA. Maybe it's just been a long time since they've done it. Technically, all non-classified government funded software is supposed to be made available in the public domain.

    --
    Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. -- H. L. Mencken
  48. Stupid Question? by LS · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why isn't all content and source code paid for by tax payers freely available? For instance, you have to pay to get the GIS database available from the USGS. All the source code from every government agency should be free as well. Also, why does NPR keep their content locked behind Real servers? I could go on. Am I missing something here? Shouldn't all this be free?

    LS

    --
    There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
    1. Re:Stupid Question? by Nate+Eldredge · · Score: 3, Informative

      A lot of it is "free", if only you can get it. The problem is that it costs agencies (and hence taxpayers) time and money to distribute, so there is no incentive to do so. For instance, government publications cost money, to defray the cost of producing and distributing them to the public. IMHO it makes sense for this cost to be paid by those who use the material, rather than by a lot of taxpayers who have no interest in it.

      As for the rest, well, that's why we have the Freedom of Information Act. If you want source code for the accounting system for the Bureau of Public Works, put in an FOIA request and they'll either give it to you (for the cost of distribution, I guess) or give you a good reason why they won't.

      NPR is not a government agency, but a private nonprofit organization, so your questions don't apply to it. However, even if it were, the government tends to use "industry standard" formats, and Real could certainly be considered that. As an example, all the forms on the IRS web site are in PDF, and they recommend (free but commercial) Acrobat Reader for viewing. Probably a lot of other files are available as Word documents, since that's how they are produced.

  49. Re:Not limited to space applications, by any means by Robotbeat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We are, of course, refering to an autonomous robotic vehicle that can actually rely on these 3d rangings for navigation without intervention from NASA. It's not really that possible to have a 3d ranging resolution greater than the resolution of the 2d images (.5 mm accuracy with a 500m range is clearly not reasonable). The ability of the rover (and other software) to construct a meaningful 3d environment (not with a blue-screen or any other such tricks like manually selecting common points in tough parts of images) using real pictures is on a higher level than 3d scanning software, not to mention the concerted effort that NASA has put toward this software. For a project costing the better part of a billion dollars, JPL is going to be sure to create some very high-quality and very rigorously tested code.

  50. This is not open-source by jmv · · Score: 5, Insightful

    (expanding a bit on my earlier comment)
    I've read the license quickly and I can definitely say that section 3F will cause problems. Requiring registration does not meet the open-source definition, nor the Debian free software guideline. It discriminates people who either 1) do not have access to the Internel (the "desert island" test) 2) people who can't say they are using the software (the "chinese dissident" test). It also prevents any inclusion in a distribution because it implies that merely buying a Linux distribution that includes the software requires you to register it. If you forget, you are breaking the law (just imagine if all software was released under this license).

    Last thing, by requiring registration, this license seems to cover the *use* of the software, going even further that what copyright law requests. The GPL gives you rights that copyright law alone does not give you (e.g. right to redistribute the code), but it does not *remove* rights (line the right to use the software without telling anyone). This also means that to be valid, the license would actually have to be signed (hence it becomes a contract). The GPL (or other free software licenses) does not require that since it only gives you additional rights (if you don't agree to the GPL, you still have all rights provided by copyright laws).

    1. Re:This is not open-source by laird · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I've read the license quickly and I can definitely say that section 3F will cause problems"

      IANAL, but 3F is phrased as a request, not a requirement. So they ask that people that use their software (or enhance it) let them know, but aren't conditioning the license on them doing so. I'd guess that since it can be ignored, it doesn't really belong in the license, but it doesn't do any harm there.

  51. examples of NASA Open Source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Examples I know of: NASA STEP Testbed, and Express Engine, though they're not the glamourous or sexy type of software most of you seem to be thinking of in this article. Not rocket or Mars-related, at least.

  52. I have an idea for use of NASA code by lone_marauder · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There's a group in the Orbiter space flight simulator community who wants to write a working version of the DSKY Apollo flight computer for Orbiter. While not source code per se, there are some who want to write a virtual machine in C++ to run the DSKY binary code.

    --
    who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
  53. Re:Old? by mcrbids · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Given the ancient hardware nasa still seems to be using on their machines (still essentially powered by '91 era powerpc's) i doubt that the source will be THAT impressive.

    In my experience, the opposite is true. Older code is generally leaner, more stable, and much tighter than newer code.

    Crap code tends to get weeded out, and good code tends to stick. Witness many of the key parts of Unix which have remained largely unchanged for decade(s).

    Why change what is clearly working well?

    There's a perception in the computing industry that "old==bad" and "new==good". But in many areas, the opposite is clearly true.

    Security algorithms, for example. Only when an encryption algorithm has been out for a while, beaten up, tested, reviewed, and studied by many peers will people begin to trust it.

    There's always the risk of a short-cut to decrypting any algorithm, so, in general, the older ones are nearly always better.

    But let's put it to the test... You're getting a pacemaker on which your life will depend. Do you prefer the 15 year old software that has an installed base of many thousands, or the new stuff that just came out last month?

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  54. From a developer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can offer a wee little bit of factual knowledge on this, since I worked at NASA for ten weeks on a school project, developing software.

    There's software that controls space ships and stuff, yes, but there's a whole lot more, too. And a lot of this software is pretty mundane. I personally worked on software for maintaining a web-based help system, written in ColdFusion. And I assure you there are not triple redundancies built in. :)

    There's a lot of interesting software being written there, there's a lot of run-of-the-mill software being developed there. Just like any other business.

    That said, they have some really cool stuff going on there too. I hope we get some of that.

  55. It's all fine and dandy... by radikal · · Score: 2, Funny
    until someone hijacks the Mars rovers!

    "Sir, we seem to have lost control of the rovers"

    "Lost contact man, what do you mean?"

    "Well sir, it's like we can look but we can't touch!"

    "And what do you see?"

    "It's hard to tell at this point, but first the rovers appeared to play a game of pong with a mars rock, and now they appear to be writing "Chris loves Jane" in the dust, with letters large enough to be viewed by a common telescope."

    "It's those da*mn blinkenlights people..."

  56. Re:Old? by Amiga+Trombone · · Score: 2, Informative

    The reason they use such "archaic" hardware, even in brand-new boxes, is because they have to withstand ambient temperatures up to 150 degrees farenheit for long periods of the day. The boxes can't be ventilated very much without exposing them to the elements (and destructive teenagers), and it gets hot as an oven inside when the sun is hitting them all day.

    While I can't vouch for this information personally, a friend of mine who does microprocessor design once told me that slower processors are used because the faster the processor, the more random errors it generates. While the errors can be compensated for in software, that, of course, adds complexity to the software. And the more complex the software, the greater the possibility of bugs.

    So in the interest of keeping things simple, and as bug free as possible, the slower processors are the preferred solution.

    I'm not really knowledgeable about microprocessor design. Perhaps someone who knows something about it could elaborate/clarify?

  57. NASA/USGS Image Processing Software by dsoltesz · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is probably the package you are looking for: Integrated Software for Imagers and Spectrometers. It's been distributed freely for many years, and is, indeed, public domain. It's funded by NASA for use by NASA-funded researchers and the planetary science community in general.

    Note, Isis 3.0 has not been released yet, look for the beta in coming months - look at Isis 2.1 for the stable release. Download/Install instructions are on this page: Isis 2.1 Installation Guide.

    Automatic mosaicking is generally done using the spacecraft positioning information. Automatic registration? It doesn't exist (yet). Registration involves varying levels of human intervention, and when some level of automation is achieved, it's mission-specific and under special circumstances. Isis is primarily a cartographic package - IDL is generally used for statistical work.

    Another image processing package that's public domain is USGS MIPS. It's a (non-NASA) terrestrial image processing package that evolved from the same roots as Isis, so you'll find it has many of the same capabilities.

    I don't know what other NASA packages there might be out there like this, if there are any. I'll ask around.

    1. Re:NASA/USGS Image Processing Software by BWJones · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Automatic mosaicking is generally done using the spacecraft positioning information.

      This is the problem we face. With imagery obtained from the light and electron microscope, there is no embedded fiducial information. Therefore, we need to use some degree of correlation or image comparison to mosaic images.

      Automatic registration? It doesn't exist (yet).

      Yeah, this is indeed why I want a couple of CS grad students to work on the problem as we have different "types" of images that are really of the same thing. So, the problem is a rather sophisticated one.

      I don't know what other NASA packages there might be out there like this, if there are any. I'll ask around.

      Thank you. :-)

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
  58. Public Domain by kinema · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was under the impression that code created by a government agency that was to be released to the public always had to be entered into the public domain. IIRC this was the case with the Enhanced Machine Controller project from the NIST. The idea is that anything the the United States Govenrment creates is owned by by the public as the US Govenrment is "of the people, by the people and for the people"

    Can anyone comment on this? IANAL.

  59. Almost a dumb comment by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 2, Insightful
    There must be at least one slashdotter who could dream up a use for NASA software.

    My first reaction was along the lines of "hunh?? Is he kidding"

    I could easily see a lot of interesting things coming out of NASA labs and projects...

    • the rover autonav software could probably find a lot of uses in various areas of robotics..
    • Imaging... anybody have even a rough estimate of the number of images that nasa has collected ?? I don't even have to look to be able to guess that they have stuff for cataloging, anotating, organizing arranging, regestering, color correcting, etc.etc.etc.
    • GIS systems
    • simulations of all sorts
    • They probably have software for doing orbital mechanics work (both rough and fine) down to a finer art than most of us thought possible.
    • there are probably aeronautical engineers who would slobber over work that they didn't even know that NASA had put together.
    • We might even get some interesting open-source project planning and communication software out of them.
    • sound filtering systems... and weak signal recovery in general
    • Some stuff, although not strictly useful right now is likely to be of some historical interest (if they can still recover it from backups).
    If we got full access to all of their software and it was properly categorized, I'm guessing that almost every slashdotter would find something in there that was at least somewhat interesting.
    --
    Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  60. Re:National Security by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Funny

    Do you want NASA to give away its latest and greatest rocket guidance software to anyone that asks for it?

    Yes.

  61. Re:space agencies in other countries too? by grozzie2 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    take the ISS for example. Because we have to keep it in a particular orbit to satisfy the Russians,

    The reality of the situation is, the iss orbit is not where it is to 'satisfy the Russians', it's to satifsy the laws of physics. There are two ways to achieve an on orbit rendevous, the first is to go charging up to orbit, and then later maneuver the orbit to match that of the target. This can be hugely wasteful in terms of energy expended in maneuvering. The second method is to wait for the target object to be on an overhead pass, so that a pure ballistic trajectory can take you directly from launch to the on orbit rendevous. This is the most efficient method of launch, allows the maximum payload delivery for a given launch vehicle.

    The ISS orbit is determined by simple ballistics. It's where it is to provide maximum availability of direct launch windows from the Kennedy Space Center AND the Balkinor launch facilities. With shuttles all parked in the garage, I suspect there's a lot of folks at nasa today that are quite thankful for the decision to place ISS in an orbit that provides equal accessibility for the Soyuz and Progress vehicles. With no shuttle missions bringing up the groceries, it's very important that those progress launches pack in every possible pound of payload when they do get sent up.

    Like everything else in life, ISS decisions are often a big compromise, most compromises are driven by physics, others by politics. To many uninformed folks, much of the decision making driven by physics appears to be political, because they dont understand the reality of the situation. Orbit selection for ISS was not chosen to 'satisfy the russians', but to optimize availability of resources in many scenarios. Lack of shuttle availability was one of those scenarios, and today it's reality. The ISS orbit is skewed a little from optimum shuttle inclinations due to the lifting capacities of the progress vehicles. With 20/20 hindsight, this was a brilliant decision. At the time, it appeared political to americans. It wasn't, it was driven by the need to have contingencies available in the event of prolonged periods of unavailble shuttles. We are currently a year into one of those periods.

  62. Some already out there by mattr · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I think CLIPS is the AI engine I once found, it's by NASA, free and recently updated. Many variants and commercial forks. Found it again after losing it, thanks to this thread. Some links from the aifaq.

    Pathfinder software archive

    CLIPS

    : A Tool for Building Expert Systems. Maintained by Gary Riley.
    fuzzyCLIPS

    Some other NASA soft:
    COBWEB/3 (ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov) ?
    AUTOCLASS AutoClass is an unsupervised Bayesian classification system for independent data.
    PRODIGY cs.cmu.edu Integrated Planning and Learning System

  63. Re:Public Doman. by SEWilco · · Score: 2, Informative
    There is a little NASA stuff on Open Channel Foundation. The ones I looked at are indeed restricted to US citizens... but the license says it's for private non-commercial use.

    Incidentally, if you remember NASA's old distribution system, COSMIC, Open Channel does have some COSMIC softare available. But I see that same "private use" license there.

    COSMIC (1966-1998, R.I.P.) policy included:

    Unless the program is copyrighted, licensed, patented or otherwise protected, users within the U.S. may freely duplicate programs, and/or may incorporate portions of NASA-developed codes into commercial products for use within the United States. Restrictions with regard to international distribution of NASA products and derivative products apply to some programs. Consult with COSMIC on a program by program basis for details. Users are also permitted to commercialize their own versions of licensed and copyrighted codes. Again, COSMIC can provide details on the terms and conditions.
  64. getting NASA source hasn't been 'rocket science' by fw3 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ;-) Sorry the pun was irresistable.

    Seriously, something like 8 years ago I was doing some work with a then-new thermal imaging system, running on an Unix / big-endian hardware platform. I needed to extract data from the images and had done so in the past with data sets collected and processed on dos & os/2.

    On contacting the vendor for data formats etc I was told that a group at NASA was doing the same thing so I contacted them and they were able and willing to send me their sources. No license, no problem.

    Honestly the results were pretty disappointing. The code was less well-done than what I'd written 2 years before and I didn't / don't consider myself to be all that strong a 'C' coder.

    Now I've also seen some of their technology-access programs some of which were effectively free (beer sense for those who care) and programs which were arranged to recoup the costs of 'supporting' something for external release.

    All code I've worked with on all of these bases was non-polished stuff, no or little cleanup around the typical hacks involved in in-house development. (i.e. it's great stuff and well suited for moving to open source)

    --
    Linux is Linux, if One need clarify their dist: <Dist>/GNU Linux
    bsds are of course just BSD
  65. Re:no GPL by Speare · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Why should corporations be able to steal code funded by the public?

    How is it "stealing"? If it was released to the public, you can light your candle from it and the corporations can light their candles from it. You aren't robbed of light if someone else has it also. I think they should be able to do what they want with their copy. Or are you really just some sort of "IP" shill?

    --
    [ .sig file not found ]
  66. Re:Old? by IsaacW · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm currently working on a satellite development project at my university, and we are developing a custom triple modular redundant flight computer system.

    Though my project is the communications system, I have come to learn quite a bit about computer systems in high-radiation environments. Basically, high-energy radiation or particles can temporarily short out a transistor and cause memory bits to flip or a wrong result to be calculated inside a processor. The energy required to flip a bit is proportional to the energy stored in the device. Faster devices have smaller feature sizes, and store less energy per memory bit. Thus, they are more prone to these types of "single event upsets" that flip bits and cause unpredictable results. For a given mean level of radiation, there is a feature size above which the probability of an upset is very close to zero, and so processors with feature sizes at least this big (read: typically slower than other processors with smaller feature sizes) can be used without too much worry.

  67. What about commericalization already done? by GAVollink · · Score: 2, Informative
    For 28 years, Nasa has published the magazine, Nasa Tech Briefs, dedicated to the commercialization of technologies originally paid for or comissioned by Nasa, and that makes NASA big money, while offsetting our tax costs for space exploration.

    For those whom feel that everything Nasa does is automatically non-copyright, the problem is that very few things that NASA has ever done are NASA exclusive. Almost all research is done by a University under a technology sharing arrangement. The copyright is held by the University in these cases.

  68. Re:Public domain for gov't software is best by Rik+van+Riel · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Freedom of choice is good, including the freedom to choose to share or not share the work you derived from public domain software.


    Good for whom ?

    Is the freedom to not share improvements a good thing for NASA, who originally paid to have the software developed ?

    Is it good for the tax payers, who'll need to pay twice to get access to the derived work ?

    (Once for NASA's contract, once for the repackaged commercial software)

    Last but not least, is it good for the company who originally wrote the software for NASA, but is now facing repackaged, slightly enhanced versions from their competitors, without being allowed to use those enhancements ?
  69. What a crock... by Dr.+Zowie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have been wondering what this is all about, having worked at GSFC for some time. I believe that documents (including software) created by NASA cannot be copyrighted, since the U.S. government is not eligible to be a copyright holder under U.S. law (I am not a lawyer). In fact, for code created entirely by civil servants (i.e. NASA-created code) there is a clause thaty says "No copyright is claimed in the United States...", indicating that the work is in that case in the public domain.

    The license might be valid for contractor-created code, but (as has been pointed out) the GPL serves pretty well. I (and many, many others) have been creating "NASA software" and distributing it under the GPL, BSD license, Perl Artistic license, and others for years. The main point of the NASA license appears to be to aid in tracking of the software and non-abuse of the NASA name. The former is probably better served by a polite request rather than a license requirement; and the latter appears to be a problem mainly for the paranoid minds of NASA's legal team.

    It would be a real shame if NASA contracts and grants started requiring this license on any software developed under grant -- that would fuck up contributions to dozens of open-source projects that benefit mightily from NASA research.

    Imagine if every patch a NASA-funded scientist submitted to (say) Perl had a NASA license attached rather than the Artistic License. That would certainly prevent such patches or contributions being included.