Desktop Linux Share Overtaking Macintosh

if only apple was x86 by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-13 17:13 · Score: 4, Interesting

i know for sure i'd be running mac os if it worked on intel

Re:if only apple was x86 by SiliconJesus101 · 2004-02-13 18:34 · Score: 5, Interesting

Ahhhhmen brother. As a recent Mac convert (got lazy and sick of "fiddling" with my OS and hardware); I wholeheartedly agree.
Although my Mac is an old "Sawtooth" AGP G4 with a 1.2Ghz GigaDesigns processor in it, it would still fetch at least $600.00 or $700.00; This is for a machine that was built in 1999!! Find me a consumer grade PC worth anywhere near this that was built in 1999 and has nothing more than a new CPU upgrade and I'll [insert favorite disgusting act here] in the middle of Times Square at high noon. Part of the expense of a Mac is saved on the resale value when you sell your old Mac and buy a new one.

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"The strong will do what they want, the weak will do what they must."
-Thucydides
Re:if only apple was x86 by dasunt · 2004-02-13 20:52 · Score: 4, Interesting

I purchased a Mac because I was sick and tired of "tinkering" with my computer, constantly tweaking settings, ensuring everything worked properly. I set my PowerBook up 4 months ago, and guess what... It just works.

Just because MacOS X 'just works' for you, doesn't mean that it will 'just work' for me.

If I'm not using the cursor, I'd like it to disappear. Does MacOS X 'just work' for me in that way? Is it easy to find a graphical configuration utility and make the cursor disappear after 5 seconds of inactivity?

Oh, and I like hotkeys. Will MacOS X allow me to easily set up the combination of ctrl-j + l to switch to my web browser, and if that web browser doesn't exist, launch it?

There's just two trivial examples I found off the top of my head. I could easily add more.

Don't think everyone who uses the Unix-like OSes are a bunch of twiddling geeks who are content to fiddle with the OS while Mac users end up getting real work done. I'm not sure about the rest of the crowd, but the reason I use unix-like OSes is because its more efficient for me to get my work done.

As for my x86 hardware, its performing fine, thank you very much. Unfortunately, there is cheap x86 hardware, just as there is cheap hardware for Macintosh. If you don't do your research when making a major investment, you will get burned. (Or did we already forget the Apple Cube fiasco?) A system from one manufacturer is not a guarentee of quality, nor is the inverse true. There are plenty of cheap automobiles that have problems even though they were designed by one organization. Inversely, I'm pretty sure that kitchen sink makers aren't allied with the lumber mills, and yet the roof overhead doesn't leak and my sink runs water without a problem.
Re:if only apple was x86 by Alioth · 2004-02-13 21:04 · Score: 5, Interesting

I agree with you on the hardware side. My next computer purchase will be a laptop, and it will be a PowerBook. PCs, even 'integrated' ones like laptops are parts-bin machines, and will always be parts-bin machines. The Mac is more like an Audi - although it may not boast any more features than a Ford, it's better thought out and it's more likely to just work.

Having said that, I've been using RedHat Linux 8 since it came out as my primary desktop. I've not had to tinker with it for a long time - it just works. That doesn't mean I didn't need to tinker at the start - my ancient parport scanner for example, I needed to build sane from source. But then again, the scanner isn't supported at all under Windows XP (and I suspect not under Mac OSX), so I still win. Why not buy a new one? Well, the existing one might be old but it works and I don't see the need to replace working hardware which can be fixed by 'configure; make; make install'.

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Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Re:if only apple was x86 by localman · 2004-02-14 05:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

You're missing the point. Of course a computer isn't an investment. We all use computers as tools. I won't argue whether the PC or Mac is a better tool but here's my experience with pricing:

In 2001 I bought a G4 Powerbook 500 for $3500. At the same time my wife bought a Sony VAIO for $3200. Aside from the fact that it had no CD, the battery lasted about 1/4 the time, and it had a smaller, lower-res screen, we'll call them equal.

In 2003 I sold my G4 (with a cracked case from droppage) for $1025 on ebay. She sold her pristine VAIO for $400.

Of course, this is for laptops, and it could be argued that Sony's are overprice for PC's. But still, she "paid less" and I "got more" both in specs and resale value.

And all of this is a waste of time anyways -- as people rarely complain if you buy a more expensive car (with virtually no technical advangages) I can't see why people are so hung up on computer price, especially with the functional differences. Perhaps a matter of taste -- but what's wrong with paying more for something that fits your taste? It's all just a pissing contest and it's tiring.

Or so I say -- despite my adding fuel to the fire ;)

Cheers.

WHere is my half life2 and photoshop? by Billly+Gates · 2004-02-13 17:17 · Score: 5, Interesting

The marketshare is there now right? Most linux installs are for home users who are nerds, cad engineers, and some servers here and there.

The server software is comming and cad software is just now being ported. Home software is still nowhere in sight.

Also most nerds now download iso's from Debian and Gentoo, and FreeBSD. They do not pay for there rpm hell anymore. Are these users being counted as well?

If there could be a way it would tell these software makers to port home software.

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http://saveie6.com/

More design software for Linux on the cards then ? by bushboy · 2004-02-13 17:19 · Score: 5, Interesting

This starts making Linux a very viable software platform in terms of established software companies such as Adobe and Macromedia.

Being a designer, this is the key area I'd love to see Linux flourish in.

To be able to ditch windows and natively run applications such as Photoshop or Dreamweaver would be a dream come true !

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A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !

Small but significant by Hamster+Of+Death · 2004-02-13 17:22 · Score: 5, Interesting

This just goes to show that you don't need to be an 800lb Gorilla to succeed, you just need to be useful. This is where both Apple and open source competes. They are both useful to different groups (with some overlap) but since the user base of all computer users is so large, 3% is still a large number of people. I guess it's proof that if you are good at what you do, people will come to you.

Re:As A Mac User by Dukael_Mikakis · 2004-02-13 17:22 · Score: 4, Interesting

I think by default Apple users don't care about market share. In fact, my experience is that they abhor market share and extol the "uniqueness" and individuality that comes from being an Apple user. I mean, not any geek could hack on a purple box.

But also, lest you forget, remember that OS X, of course is based on Unix itself (FreeBSD). (Does that in any way qualify OS X for a "Linux distro"?).

huzzah by BortQ · 2004-02-13 17:22 · Score: 5, Interesting

While the desktop linux market share is rising about that of macintosh, that isn't a bad thing for the mac. The loss is market share will be to windows.

One of the driving factors behind this is cost (especially in emerging markets). The change is coming in business environments, where the macintosh has always lagged far behind windows.

I can't see any of the traditional macintosh markets switching to linux. The same UNIX base is present on the mac along with other more exclusive things.

Anyway, I think that this is in fact a great thing for the macintosh. The compatibility of programs is much better between os x/linux then it is between os x/windows. And Apple has been showing it is more than happy to take up open-source created standards.

In conclusion: go linux, go mac os x, die windows die!

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A Multiplayer Strategy Game for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux

Critical mass RealSoonNow by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-13 17:23 · Score: 4, Interesting

If desktop Linux starts to hit Microsoft where it hurts, it will happen not so much among typical office employees but among specialized workers. These include stock traders, bank tellers, engineers, customer-service reps, and warehouse employees. They rely on just a few applications and need PCs that are simple to use and rarely crash -- which Linux can handle.

The last part from the article is an understatement, but it shows BusinessWeek gets IT. It is a pretty well written, but short article, from the business perspective.

Some disadvantages do remain in the near future (eg., the home desktop user still has to get around to installing a working DVD player for movies), but even businesses see the snowball is gaining in size and will soon pass the critical mass (to mix metaphors)!

Google Zeitgeist by BlueEar · 2004-02-13 17:27 · Score: 3, Interesting

Google's Zeitgeist still has Linux at 1% and Mac at 3%. I also find it not very encouraging that even with Longhorn delayed by 3 or so years predicted Linux desktop share gains are 3-4%. Maybe our New Years resolution should be to install Linux on at least one computer that was monopolised by Windows. I did just that :-)

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A religious war is an adult version of a fight over who has the best imaginary friend

Re:Google Zeitgeist by prockcore · 2004-02-13 19:06 · Score: 3, Interesting

Google's Zeitgeist still has Linux at 1% and Mac at 3%.

Yes, but Google's Zeitgeist isn't an authority on the subject. They only count the unique visitors to the site. Many Linux desktops are being set up in work environments, where people may not even have a browser installed, or where work might not let them visit Google.

At home, most linux users have static IPs, or near-static IPs via broadband. The majority of OSX and Windows users use dialup. This means they get counted multiple times.

It doesn't matter by Hornsby · 2004-02-13 17:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

I'm a long time Linux user who's just about to purchase my first Mac, a G4 powerbook. I use Linux on the desktop everyday, and while I like it, I'm not afraid to admit that compared to an OSX desktop, it lacks polish. I don't blame X, Gnome, KDE, or anyone for this. I really believe it's simply a matter of Mac development being more focused due to Apple spearheading it's development.

Linux is awesome because it's affordable to everyone, and it's become a very nice alternative to Windows; however, I don't think that it's going to steal a significant number of users from the Mac market since OSX has a major geek appeal as well.

It's silly to think that users have to be either here or there. I plan to continue to use both Linux and OSX after the purchase of my laptop, and I don't understand why everyone is so black and white about what you run on your desktop. Anybody that's used a Mac knows what the appeal is about. Linux has a natural attraction to anybody that wants a stable and cost effective OS. Why not enjoy both?

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A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle.

only 6% in 2007? by skillio · 2004-02-13 17:33 · Score: 4, Interesting

hmm, i wonder if they're taking into account the ever-growing usability of linux to casual desktop users when giving this projection. it seems to me that in 3-4 years, just observing the trend, adoption percentages will be much higher than that. it isnt linear because as it gets better, more people try it, recommend it, etc, and obviously the price factor is big. in addition, i'd think something like the walmart cheap PC thing will be multiplying greatly as linux is shown to be user-friendly, with many more major vendors pro-offering linux in some form on their systems. maybe i'm just being optimistic, but i'd hope linux desktop adoption in 2007 would be 10-15% or higher - i guess we can hope (:

Re:Not the point. by dalutong · 2004-02-13 17:47 · Score: 3, Interesting

It seems a lot of people think that overtaking Mac is not a newsworthy feat. It is a huge deal.

They're not replacing Photoshop with Gimp, Quark with nothing, etc. But, if they have developed Photoshop for Mac, including MacOSX, then they now have a reason to develop it for GNU/Linux. This would be a reason for a lot of businesses to get into gear and start porting.

I am aware of all the reasons they might not -- different distros, harder to support, not as focused a userbase, etc. but at least the list no longer includes "it's not even as popular as Mac!"

--

What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?

Re:Google says 1% by ImTwoSlick · 2004-02-13 17:55 · Score: 3, Interesting

Probably because most Linux users change their user agent string to report as a windoze variant... That's what I do. I'm sick of so may internet sites denying me access because my browser doesn't identify as IE. Even though 99% would still work anyway. Now I just change the string, and have no more problems.

Re:Google says 1% by arvindn · 2004-02-13 18:12 · Score: 3, Interesting

Note that opera on linux identifies by default as MSIE/Windows. Also I don't know what google's "5% - other" means. Perhaps some of that is linux but not correctly identified?

More is needed for desktop (suggestions included) by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-13 18:24 · Score: 5, Interesting

Quote from the article:

Munich went with Linux, but the city fathers may rue that day. BusinessWeek has learned that the project is behind schedule, bolstering Microsoft's message that Linux still isn't ready for prime time. "I haven't seen any of our customers use Linux in a mainstream way," says Martin Taylor, Microsoft's general manager for platform strategy.
[End Quote]

Some things a Linux desktop still needs (in my opinion, in random order):

1. Good DVD player & CD-RW that just work, without mesing around. If this software is not part of the distro, simple instructions on how to get/install it (one click?).

2. Friends who are familiar with the OS/Distro, for the network effects and piece of mind in case something goes drastically wrong. This is where having a "critical mass" (fuzzy value) comes in - this is already happening, but the more, the better.

3. Better Wine, but that will come with age. :) [CodeWeavers is doing a really good job, with full disclosure of the limitations, which leads to a sense of psychological well being, rather than the feeling "they are trying to take advantage of me."]

4. Better default settings for Desktop/Window managers that make sense to a majority (and keep the ability to tweak). The "usability" improvements and surveys will help here, a lot. More needs to happen in that field.

5. Use easier "language" - eventually (in 1-2 years) e.g., non-cryptic commands, or a *standardized* set of aliases that work on all distros. [And continue to evolve the GUI so the user doesn't HAVE TO use the CLI.]

6. Better Grub/Lilo/equivalent that is less intimidating for new users that want multi-boot. Preferably with a easy to use GUI that detects all HDDs & partitions and tells you what's on them (with as much relevant information as possible).

7. Some packaging system with less dependency problems. [Yes, there are a few that show very good promise, with only occasional issues surfacing.]

8. The equivalent of a "tray" where one can see the status of the firewall, proxy server, network connection, ..., similar to a few other OSs. The lack of such status is hard to get used to, for a new/non-expert user.

9. Few, well chosen default applications on the distro (not "give them four of everything"). [Lot of progress has already happened in this area in a few distros.]

10. Other stuff that's been talked about in other places. :)

-srr

It's worth noting by MysteriousMystery · 2004-02-13 18:42 · Score: 3, Interesting

It's worth noting that IDC #s are based heavily on sales figures. IE sales of box sets of Linux aimed at desktops (Lindows, Mandrake, Red Hat person, Suse) or systems preinstalled with the OS and not necessarily people downloading it for free, making copies of copies and such. The reality is that there is a high possibility the number of Linux desktops is SUBSTANCIALLY higher then their sales based estimates.

Re:It's worth noting by fr0dicus · 2004-02-13 19:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

Or substantially lower, which Google zeitgeist suggests.
Some people are willing to try anything, but may still find Linux too hard or incompatible with their kit. I wonder how many of those boxsets were sold to people with Winmodems for instance? Given that this seems to be the Internet connection hardware of choice for the non-broadband enabled consumer, I would suspect quite a lot.

We're not all zealots :-) by SuperBanana · 2004-02-13 18:59 · Score: 3, Interesting

I think by default Apple users don't care about market share. In fact, my experience is that they abhor market share and extol the "uniqueness" and individuality that comes from being an Apple user.

Actually, I just don't care about market share, with either Linux or the Macintosh. I settle for showing people(who show interest) some of the neat things about my powerbook and OS X. I'm very reserved about recommending it for someone, and there's no point in trying to get someone to switch- they have to want to, otherwise, it'll never meet their expectations.

I mean, not any geek could hack on a purple box.

Are you talking about SGI? If so, that'd be indigo, not purple- and one of the first Unixes I was exposed to was Irix on an old Indigo(IP12 with the "Song and Dance" graphics card, not nearly enough ram, and I think maybe 1-2GB of disk- but man, it could do some nifty graphics for the time, and it was an OLD system by the time I got my hands on it!)

People say OS X is the first unix desktop-friendly unix(ie, no command-line necessary), and they're dead wrong- SGI had them beat by almost ten years with Irix.

PS:hard core SGI people started on brown computers, not "purple" ones. Why Indigo, by the way? Well, the color supposedly perfectly matches Lotus Coachworks's Indigo paint(one of the top SGI execs owned a Indigo Lotus Espirit Turbo- guy had taste...)

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Please help metamoderate.

Irrelevant by fr0dicus · 2004-02-13 19:23 · Score: 3, Interesting

This is like saying "Taxi use outstripped Mercedes sales".

interesting ramifications for.. by ricochet81 · 2004-02-13 19:39 · Score: 3, Interesting

websites too. A LOT of developers i've been around design pages for the mac and pc, and dont care about linux, it works somehow. But, I am increasingly peeved at web content that is windows only (IE and Windows Media Player) eg. launch.yahoo.com and many other streaming Windoze audio/video, IE jscript & other IE only web content. This fact should be made as public as we can so I can get rid of my windows partition once and for all.

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Error: Id10t detected

Linux in IT may help Mac in long run by Sigh+Phi · 2004-02-13 19:40 · Score: 5, Interesting

The original poster plays up one line in the Business Week article and completely skews the tenor of the article. To wit: Linux is becoming attractive in "business" -- never an Apple strength. The article's mention of Macintosh marketshare is a journalistic technique used to provide a frame of reference. Iraq is roughly the size of California, etc.

But Macintosh and Linux have more than marketshare in common. Both platforms are committed to open standards and interoperability, the former out of necessity due to its historical role as outsider, and the latter out of philosophical conviction of its adherents. If Linux leaks into the business world, IT folks will find that the formats and APIs they're using work just as well on Macs. This could lead to a more equitable situation where people use the tools they like, rather than the tools that Bill Gates wants them to use. Joe the Administrative assistant will while away on Windows, Jane the database nerd loves her Linux cluster, and Johan the turtlenecked web designer makes merry on his Mac.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic. IT monoculture is so annoying.

Linux and Mac do not share the same market by kyshtock · 2004-02-13 19:58 · Score: 4, Interesting

How can one say such a thing? Macs are for people willing to spend extra money, for people who appreciate design and ease of use, for people who want to have a certain touch of uniqueness.

On the other hand, Linux is for poeple who don't give a damn about the looks of their machines, for the people who aren't afraid to search the net about ten hours for the piece of code they need, and will read the docs and compile for about ten more hours. Oh, yeah, and for people with a certain cash affection.

Oh, so you said desktop boxen! So? Check the prices: same machine, same capabilities: one computer, one operating system, one office package. Which is cheaper?

However, gimme a Powerbook running Linux and I'll change my mind :)

On a different level: applications. Industry uses Photoshop; industry uses Macromedia stuff, industry uses specific software which runs on more standardised systems, such as MacOS or Windows. When Photoshop and Dreamweaver and Flash and QuarkXpress, and all the software that equipment get deliverd with will work on Linux, TOO, than you can speak of a choice. Till then, you need to be extra carefull when you shop, because you new laser printer might not work on linux (been there, bought that).

Cheers and power to the Penguin

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Bite my shiny metal... oops... Nevermind!

Re:Linux may be gaining market share.... by pe1chl · 2004-02-13 21:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

The multi-distribution model of Linux has some advantages w.r.t. development by competition, but it works against general desktop acceptance.

Probably there will be a shakeout and a small number of distributors survive. Only then can the desktop market be really developed.

Linux enthousiasts like choice. Choice between distributors, choice between window managers, system administration tools, choice between applications.

Desktop users like a uniform system where there are some known invariants. Systems that they can ask others to support, or that they can ask questions about when chatting with a co-worker or friend.
Right now, Linux is not like that.

People predicting the end of Mac by webmilhouse · 2004-02-14 00:33 · Score: 4, Interesting

I think the number of people who have predicted the death of Apple in the past is directly proportional the number of times Apple has bounced back.

I think Linux is gaining in business desktop use because it is x86 and most businesses already have a large investment in hardware that is easy to convert to Linux rather than replace with G5s.

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Desktop Linux Share Overtaking Macintosh

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