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Navy Jet eBayed - Some Assembly Required?

madmancarman writes "The world's only F/A-18 Hornet in private ownership, formerly a Navy Blue Angel Jet, is for sale on eBay. The initial asking price? $1 million unassembled, or $9 million assembled and certified airworthy 'with your choice of paint' - more info is available via a Yahoo News story. I wonder how much it would cost to fully arm it? The same person selling the F/A-18 is also selling a 1950's T-33, and claims they'll soon be auctioning off an F-16 and a Mig-29 as well. Build your own air force for fun and profit!"

18 of 704 comments (clear)

  1. Assembly AND Military Experience Required by andyrut · · Score: 5, Informative

    While owning a Blue Angel would be awesome, it's unlikely a civilian would actually get any flight time in such a vehicle. To fly it, you'd need a Letter of Authorization because there's no FAA type certification for this aircraft - and unless you're an ex-military pilot, you've basically got no chance of getting an LOA.

    Even if you were to get an LOA, to fly it you'd have to get permission from the FAA to put it in the air every time you take off. So add your own private island to the total cost if you actually want to fly it without hassle.

    So unless you're ex-military, you'd have yourself a $9 million lawn ornament.

    1. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by SiliconJesus101 · · Score: 5, Informative
      Uhmmm...no. It's classified "experimental" and could in fact be flown by a private individual. This is the same thing that is done with the old warbirds, Mig 21's and bombers that private parties fly. More info can be found here: http://www.utility-aircraft.com/catalog/certificat e/index.htm

      You do need an actual special reason for flying the plane, but aside from that it is quite possible for a private party to own and fly a military jet.

      --

      "The strong will do what they want, the weak will do what they must."
      -Thucydides

    2. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by rogerwong · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's currently impossible to get a Letter of Authorization (LOA) from the FAA, because the FAA have phased out LOAs.

      Instead, you now get certified, by an authorized instructor, for certain classes of experimental aircraft. The DC-F18 is part of Group IX, along with the F-15 and Mig 29.

      See this FAA document for more details:
      http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/news/n_8700-24.pdf

    3. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by flewp · · Score: 5, Informative

      If they sent out an F117 you'd be lucky. It has no air to air capabilities.

      --
      WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
    4. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by silconous · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Jet holds 10800 lbs of JP5 without External fuel tanks.

      I know I used to work on them in the Avionics shop VMFA-232

    5. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by headGasket · · Score: 4, Informative

      WHAT??!?! According to this article flying a MiG21 costs about 500 gallons of jet fuel for 15 minutes. Double that for a F18 your at 4000 gallons an hour; about 10 000$ an hour. You can do a lot more than take off and land in an hour.

      --
      6E8C 8721 B3D9 5269 5A9B 1122 00C3 C03D 99A7 1CFC
    6. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by dj51d · · Score: 4, Informative

      Typically such an aircraft would be registered Experimental/Exhibition and the allowed uses are for exhibition(airshows) and proficiency flights. Any flight not for an airshow is considered a proficiency flight.

    7. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by AhBeeDoi · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've watched too much Discovery Wings. The F117A was given an "F" designation despite no air-to-air capability was to mollify the hot-shot fighter jocks who were chosen to fly the plane.

    8. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by the_mad_poster · · Score: 5, Informative

      A sonic boom is only a fixed boom for an individual observer, not a one time crack as the plane exceeds the speed of sound. Sonic booms are caused by shockwaves following along after the moving object. You'll only hear it once (unless you outrun the object and then wait for it to go by again), but it's a sustained shockwave for as long as the plane is flying fast enough.

      --
      Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
    9. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by AhBeeDoi · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've also heard that the F117 could be fitted for air-to-air capability but sidewinders seems unlikely. Sidewinders have an IR sensor on the nose to seek the hot tail exhaust of enemy jets and would need to be mounted outside of the internal bomb bays to be effective. If the sidewinders are mounted outside, the low radar profile of the F117A would be compromised and the jet would lose its best asset. Mounting the sidewinder in the internal bay would preserve the low radar profile while the sidewinders are in the compartment but the would also lose its ability to carry ground ordnance. Deploying the sidewinders from the internal bays would also adversely affect the aerodynamics of the F117A and create a higher radar profile, neither of which is desirable for a relatively slow jet that will be engaging in air-to-air combat.
      Theoretically, sidewinders can be mounted on this special purpose jet, but in doing so, the F117A loses its strengths and is forced into a role for which it is less suitable.

    10. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Informative
      Btw, the most common speed unit is knots, not mph or km/h and knots is a naval unit measured by a number of knots on a rope that's trailing the ship in a given time period.

      I was going to call bullshit, because it was always my understanding that a knot == 1.15mph (something to do with the distance of a nautical mile at the equator as I recalled), but it turns out that you are correct. According to this website:

      The term knot or nautical mile, is used world-wide to denote one's speed through the water. Today, we measure knots with electronic devices, but 200 years ago, such devices were unknown. Ingenious mariners devised a speed-measuring device both easy to use and reliable, the "log line."

      From this method, we get the term "knot." The log line was a length of twine marked at 47.33 foot intervals by colored knots. At one end a log chip was fastened; it was shaped like the sector of a circle and weighted at the rounded end with lead. When thrown over the stern, it would float pointing upward and would remain relatively stationary. The log line was allowed to run free over the side for 28 seconds and then hauled on board.

      Knots which had passed over the side were counted. In this way, the ship's speed was measured.

      Google also says that a knot = 1.15077945 mph or 1.85200 kph.

      So I stand corrected :) Glad I researched that before opening my big mouth. Learn something new every day...

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    11. Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required by DoctorPepper · · Score: 4, Informative

      He's absolutely right. In military aircraft, especially Navy aircraft, everything is measured in pounds. When I was in the Navy, I worked on the F-14A Tomcat. That plane would hold 16,400 lbs of fuel without the drop tanks, over 20,000 with drop tanks. Add that to the dry weight of over 48,000 lbs, and you've got one HEAVY airplane!

      I've seen them take the catapult stroke at over 72,000 lbs.

      --

      No matter where you go... there you are.
  2. Ellison? by BWJones · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hmmmm. This sounds like the owner might have been Larry Ellison. There have been a number of Mig-29's available in private hands over the years as well as a couple of F-104 Starfighters. I don't know if Larry owned an F-18, or an F-16 but I talked to him at a Java conference (at least I'm pretty sure it was Ellison) years ago and he expressed an interest in obtaining fighter jets like the Mig-29. Someone told me that he recently married, so perhaps his wife would rather he not go "jetting off" and would like him to calm his lifestyle a bit?

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Ellison? by the+melon · · Score: 5, Informative

      It is actually a doctor who owns it. I saw a program on Discovery Wings a year or two ago that had him and the plane in it. They gave his name but I cannot remember what it was.

      He said the only real restriction that was on the plane was one that is on all civilian aircraft: No supersonic flight over US airspace.

  3. What you're really buying by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Informative

    is tihs. Not quite flyable condition...;)

    Yes, it can be put back together. But no, it's not in 'fly-away' condition.

    There are several ex-military jets in private hands. F-4's, F-86's, etc. And you can just return it to weapons capable status. *All* of the fire control circuitry will have been removed. And without that, a missile won't launch in anything other than a randowm direction, if at all.

    Given the restrictions on actually flying ex-military aircraft, it would be easier for a purported terrorist to drop a case of TNT out the door of a Cessna.

  4. Re:Flight Hours on Airframe by HardCase · · Score: 5, Informative
    3700 odd flight hours, many of Blue Angels type maneuvers. Probably some significant stress and wear on that airframe due to the type of flying. There probably was a good reason that aircraft was retired.


    Not at all - the maintenance schedule on military aviation is extraordinarily rigorous, because of the type of flying that is done and because much of the equipment (for its time) is cutting edge, at least mechanically speaking.


    The maneuvers that the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds do are the same maneuvers that all of the pilots of those aircraft perform. It's just that the demonstration teams perform them as a group. My old naval aviation buddies tell me that the Blue Angels' jets actually get easier use than the regular jets. They certainly don't have to make any arrested landings or catapault takeoffs!


    -h-

  5. MIGs by tiny69 · · Score: 4, Informative

    After the wall fell, one of the airplane magazines had an article on one of the older MIGs (don't remember which model). At the time, you could pick them up for fairly cheap (well, cheap for being a jet). Since getting spare parts was some what difficult if even possible, the magazine recommended that if you REALLY wanted a MIG, buy two just so that you have spare parts.

    Another thing that I remember from the article, the jet on that MIG had a really slow spool up time. This meant that when you pushed the throttle to full, it would take the engine a while before it produced full power. This becomes a problem if you have to do a missed approached or abort a landing. This meant that when you landed that MIG, you would push the controls to full throttle before the wheels touched down, just in case. This is the same thing that planes do when landing on a carrier. But it seemed strange to do for a ground based runway.

    --
    Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
  6. Re: knots by SEAL · · Score: 4, Informative

    knots is a naval unit measured by a number of knots on a rope that's trailing the ship in a given time period.

    Where did you hear that?

    A knot is a nautical mile per hour. A nautical mile is one minute of latitude (1/60th of a degree of the Earth's circumference -- 6076 feet, versus 5280 feet for an English mile).