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Navy Jet eBayed - Some Assembly Required?
madmancarman writes "The world's only F/A-18 Hornet in private ownership, formerly a Navy Blue Angel Jet, is for sale on eBay. The initial asking price? $1 million unassembled, or $9 million assembled and certified airworthy 'with your choice of paint' - more info is available via a Yahoo News story. I wonder how much it would cost to fully arm it? The same person selling the F/A-18 is also selling a 1950's T-33, and claims they'll soon be auctioning off an F-16 and a Mig-29 as well. Build your own air force for fun and profit!"
You can acquire a private island for less than $9 million. A fair bit less.
Interesting. Are there any sort of government oversights as to how these can be sold and to whom? I would hate for some wack-job with money to get a hold of one of these, get some armament via the black market, and use it to do something regrettable.
Most things on eBay seem to go for damn-near retail price, so I'm guessing that a MiG-29 would get bid through the roof and have a value near to that of its Western counterparts (despite its less-than competitive combat avionics). You could probably get the MiG cheaper by just going to Russia to buy it. Like the price of a Hummer H2 (~$50K), I'm guessing. Some underpaid Russian general or mobster would probably jump at the chance.
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I'd want to own one of these...Heinkel HE-162
8 &oe=UTF-8&q=heinkel+he-162&sa=N&tab=wi
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
German WW2 jet fighter, fought in the last weeks of the war. Top speed of 521 mph. None left are light worthy though. The BMW-003 jet engine used in it had a lifetime of 10-12 hours, unfortunately.
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
According to IMDB, Michael Dorn owns (or used to) a T-33 and an F-86, among others. I wonder if it's him. Imdb link
There are tons of ex-military guys out there who could fly this and afford it. Bob Lutz has a friggin MiG.
An ex-Blue Angel told CNN that their aircraft are stripped of weapons systems before they even get them, so to answer the story poster's question: It would cost the same to arm it as it would a Cessna or anything else.
There is a MIG-23 in Dayton, OH at the museum at Wright Patterson AFB. It was bought by a private investor and then the mean U.S. Government confiscated it because, gosh darn, it was nuclear capable! Clearly labled as such! A Russian General unable to get money for food and other supplies from his government sold it.
http://www.planetware.com/photos/US/OHUASF1.HTM
Note the tri-foil on the nose cone!
All that aside, how much would it cost, in terms of fuel and maintenance, to get it in the air?
I asked someone at an airshow this question, and they said a "mission" cost between $100k (just to take off and land) to $1m (to do a lot more than take off and land).
It might be substantially more expensive than that for a private person who doesn't have the huge infrastructure needed to maintain it.
I have to agree with the other poster on this thread - Larry Ellison is likely to be a seller. Or a buyer. He's one of the few people in the world who could actually afford to run it on a regular basis.
Bob Lutz is another possibility, but I don't know if he's rich enough.
D
I've known a couple of folks that own a Saab Draken and Mig-15's and it turns out civilians can own and fly such vehicles. You do need LOA's, and there are other restrictions such as not being able to exceed the sound barrier (at least in US airspace).
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Why bother going to Russia to buy one? There are several companies that disassemble them, ship the parts to the US, re-assemble them, and then sell the MiG's. Last I checked they started at like $200k, though.
Now all you need is the Ebay Aircraft Carrier to launch the plane off of.
Hmm.
I'm an ex-navy fire control & Avionics tech for this bird (lot 12 being the last one I worked on).
What say we see who buys it and offer ourselves as ground crew? I've got a friend who's a BB stacker, just need a power guy...
Assuming, of course, that it has the AN/APG-65 radar/avionics package still onboard; thats what I can't see the Navy willing to let fall into private hands, but I also can't see the bird flying without it, it's fairly integrated.
Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
there have been several jets sold on ebay, the aforementioned cmdr warf, bought one this way, a gulfstream 4 went the same way. check out some of this guys other auctions, there's some stuff that the average slashdotter would be intrested in, http://www.stores.ebay.com/id=2445982
Well art is art isn't it, but then again water is water; and east is east; and west is west; and if you take cranberries
-cp-
when buying a F18, even one in prime condition. First of all, what kind of airport do you need in terms of runway and infrastructure? Do F18 fly on commercial fuel without killing their afterburner?
Would you need a special pilot license? I mean, this isn't exactly a two-seated Fokker but a supersonic jet.
And last but not least, when the constitution amendment was made that everyone could bear arms i don't think politicians had state-of-the-art jet fighters in mind. Would be like allowing everyone to drive a tank...
Look, this thing is totally safe! Built it myself, you know. You just press that button like this and then turn that lev
On the other hand, if you buy it unassembled, you could assemble it yourself and have it qualified as an experimental aircraft, plus save $8million. You'd still have to follow the rules for experimental aircraft, but that's true of any homebuilt.
-- Alastair
as for getting permission to take off; money could probably ease that process a bit as well.
Paul Lenhart writes words!
A high performance military jet is still a military jet. They can be used for all sorts of purposes, recon being one.
I live very close to Imperial War Museum's Duxford Airfield in Cambridge and occassionaly go there to have a walk. They have a number of jet combat aircraft owned by private organizations/people.
The current high bidder has bought a bunch of shirts and a $15,000 Porche
Aren't you making a pretty big assumption? It seems entirely plausible that the Porsche is just one of many sports cars "fashionpillows" owns. Maybe it was good deal or maybe it was just easier for them to buy it on eBay and have it delivered to the beach house or whatever...
After the breakup of the Soviet bloc you could pick up migs for salvage or scrap from abandoned bases in Eastern Europe and East Germany. These went for thousands or mere hundreds of dollars rather than millions, and many were fully working units. Most were bought up for scap and stripped down for titanium and other resources. Many however just 'disappeared'.
Look at some figures for the armaments in East Europe pre 1989, and then see if you can find any stories which account for what happened to all that military gear. You may be slightly worried.
I'm not sure how easy it'd be to use this demilitarized, declassified F/A-18 for weapons use. The aircraft in its current state has kamikaze potential like any other, but employment of any actual modern air platform weapons would be almost impossible. No weapons fire-control software, possibly no radar, no weapons pylons (required to handle the complex mechanical and electrical linkages with weaponry, subject to great stress).
It might be possible to jury-rig some sort of home-made pylon (at great expense) for carrying dumb bombs (simple ones that do not require any type of software control, yes even "dumb" bombs have a small amount of computerized control), but then again you could do that with any aircraft. Any aircraft can be used to drop something (crop dusters, 172's, MD-500's etc.).
Of course where the F/A-18 fundamentally differs from civilian aircraft is its performance (any civilian sport aircraft could out-turn it though), but even that is of scattered use. Maneuvering performance is only useful in air to air combat, and it would be impractical for this aircraft to be converted for usage with air to air weaponry by yourself, unless you have connections with very skilled weaponry engineers and a lot of time and money. Then again, if you have those connections and funds, you could probably buy a real military aircraft from Russia and not need this F/A-18 in the first place.
Now its performance would of course increase its kamikaze potential, but due to its size, this aircraft would probably not be much more effective in that respect than a regional or business jet. And there are plenty of those around already.
Thats what they tought us in school (I was an Aero Eng major a lifetime ago). Interestingly, IIRC if you go really, really fast (hypersonic, > Mach 5) the shock wave becomes so narrow and close to the plane that sonic booms are no longer a problem. Its only around the low Mach numbers that you get these really wide shock waves that still have a lot of strength when they hit the ground.
Afterwards the lucky winner gets to recoup some of the $9M by selling 4x4m patches of bubble wrap at $50, easing the anxieties of thousands.
Later, the guy is sued by the makers of Prozac.
You heard it here first.
Uh-huh.
I think we need to stick with Navy & Navy Security (Marines) on this one.
BB Stacker on the F/A-18 would be a ordnance specialist, someone who does storage, testing & mounting; I understand the USAF uses 3 or 4 separate people for the job; we never had that luxury.
So the Proper mix would be:
1 AQ/AT (for electronics, weapons control, radar)
1 BB Stacker (AO)
1 AE (Electrical)
1 Hydraulics (can't remember the rate or MOS)
1 Airframe Mech (probably not neccesary unless you are going to be buying that $4mil Brazilian Aircraft Carrier thats for sale, also).
1 Power Plant monkey to keep the engines running.
So, say 6 guys, minimum (I've been on a detached team that did it with 5, but it was only for one flight). I would want to have a experienced Fleet plane captain available to do the stuff we don't have a specialist for.
and they would only need to be A&P certified if it was all done legally; if we are just doing this for a RIAA strike, we just need it to work.
Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
If someone can comment, would this not be pointless? I understood that the U.S. Navy never relinquishes control of their aircraft, which has frustrated some salvage operators. They spend a few thousand bucks pulling an airplane out of a remote lake, fix it up, and then have the Navy come along and just 'reclaim' it.
This seller has a great deal of pricey stuff on Ebay. Top three, pricewise, are:
? Vi ewItem&item=2460961703&category=26442
a te gory=4671&item=3077350284
a te gory=4672&item=3078834871
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll
Some sort of dirigible, $10M
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&c
2 million feet of Corning fiber optic cable, $4.4M
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&c
Warehouse, $1.1M
Cogito ergo sum in Slashdot.
There are several ex-military jets in private hands. F-4's, F-86's, etc. And you can just return it to weapons capable status. *All* of the fire control circuitry will have been removed. And without that, a missile won't launch in anything other than a randowm direction, if at all.
...for one, pick your target. Air-to-air combat? Riiight. Even if you got one fully locked and loaded with the latest the US has to offer, a squadron of trained combat pilots would pick you out of the sky in no time flat.
Given the restrictions on actually flying ex-military aircraft, it would be easier for a purported terrorist to drop a case of TNT out the door of a Cessna.
I guess you could take out a civilian airliner or two before they manage to take you out of the sky, but hell. Despite the increased security, I'm sure there are easier ways for that still, particularly since you can sabotage landings/take-offs.
So it's basicly a bomber. What do you need? Speed? Nah. If you can reach the center of whatever no-fly zone before you can be shut down, that's good enough and they're not that big unless your target is a remote military base. Range? Nah. Just take off from the nearest feasible runway.
Payload? Yeah, I guess. But then you're better off renting a transport plane anyway. And since the plane is toast anyway, either fly it in or lock/program the autopilot and parachute out. No guidance/launch system necessary, just the navigation in any basic plane.
Basicly, this is a combat plane built to fight a war. Firepower to shoot down hostiles, range to reach enemy targets, hit fortified installations and moving targets, and return to base safely. Very little of that applies to a terrorist.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Why spend that much?
Especially when you can have your very own Aircraft Carrier for less money!
The Vengeance was refitted in 1998, so it's probably still in fair shape, and they WERE asking only 4 million, but now they are asking for best offer.
Why, yes, I AM a Pagan Libertarian.
Can we let the $500 hammer, $10,000 coffee maker, and the $6K toilet seat myths go now? If you want to understand the REAL scam behind this stuff, this is a good overview of exactly how the money gets wasted. For those who don't follow links, here's the explaination of "overpriced" parts:
So the "pays for Area 51" comments are probably accurate, but anyone who tries to pay their income taxes by dragging a Mr. Coffee and a used toilet seat into the IRS office and asking for two hammers in change is an idiot.If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Per hour costs are based on more than the cost of fuel. The military has extensive statistics on things like maintenance. You may have to pay for 30 man-hours of maintenance, on average, for each hour in the air. Then there are replacement parts, overhauls, scheduled inspections, consumables, etc.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Those foreign carriers can usually only launch harriers.
French Carrier: 20,000 tons displacement
American Carrier: 100,000 tons displacement
The high bidder now apparently sells juggling clubs for $20 a pop. He can't possibly be serious. The guy who was high bidder this morning at least had among his past purchases a pilot's carry-on bag, a wooden model of a twin engine Cessna, and some sort of "pilot training on CD" software.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
I knew the rohntowers.com sounded familiar... The guy (Micheal Landa) has an alleged checkered past: http://www.bishoptower.com/landa/
Here in NZ there's a largish fleet of private military jets flying out of Ardmore airfield. Why? Because since we ditched our Airforce's strike capability, the Army and Navy have no way to train against being attacked from the air - so they pay private operators to 'attack' them with jets like these.
Titanium has come down in price significantly in the past few years. (Been happening since the Russians realized they needed money and had Titanium) My last hammer was made form wood and titanium and Cost $70, of which the handle was $20. (Trust me, well made tools are worth that price if you use them everyday) 10 years ago the idea of a common person owning a titanium hammer wasn't even worth considering, the price would be outrageous.
Quite true, in many aircraft types.
slow rolls being done without the knowledge of passengers
Not quite true.
Don't confuse barrel rolls and slow rolls. A slow roll, properly executed, involves minus one G (a.k.a. hanging upside down from your seatbelt). It also involves significant sideways G during the knife-edge portions.
By the way, "slow" in "slow roll" isn't really a measure of the speed of the roll, only the type of roll. (And, roll-rate isn't a judging criterion in aerobatic competition.) The name came about because slow rolls are inherently slower than snap/flick rolls.
In a nutshell:
Barrel roll: Corkscrew-shaped flight path. Curvature of flight path during the inverted portion keeps the pilot feeling positive G force.
Slow roll: maintain a constant, level, undeviating flight path, while rotating around the longitudinal axis.
Snap/flick roll: Snap=US term, flick=UK term. Combined use of yaw and rapid pich change to cause one wing to stall (stop producing much lift). Rotation results from the unbalanced lift generated by the other wing. Rotation is usually quite rapid.
Aileron roll: Lazy pilot's slow roll. Like a slow-roll, but the flight path is a freefall-like parabola rather than a straight, level line, which makes it much easier to coordinate.
Rolling turn: Like a slow roll, but the flight path is a curved, turning, level path.
Only snap/flick, slow, and rolling turns are used in IAC sanctioned competition, other than in freestyle where anything goes,
RockyMountain.
(Competition aerobatic pilot, Pitts Special).
That's baloney. It was designed to evade radar from all angles. Its faceting profile is most effective on radar signals from the front, sides and below.
You don't need radar to seek out an AWACS. You can either be directed to it by your own forces or seek it out by tracking it's emissions.
That would be really difficult because the AWACS or other airborne target would be continuously moving and the F117A would have to receive constant flight corrections. The F117A pilot would not be able to acknowledge receiving directions for fear of giving away his position from his radio emissions. Once in the general area, the F117A would still need to be able to track by sight which is incredibly difficult if you don't know if the target is above, below or behind you. The F117A does not have any sophisticated tracking devices as it has optical/IR and probably GPS devices, consistent with its mission as a ground attack aircraft.
I didn't say it was designed to do that -- I said that was a possible mission back in the Cold War when we actually stood a chance of fighting an Air Force equal to our own. It's a very moot point now as none of our recent foes have Air Forces let alone AWACS or any other airborne HVTs for that matter. The F-22 would probably be better suited to this mission nowadays anyway -- but the F-22 didn't exist back in the 80s when the F-117 was designed.
A possible mission, but not a probable mission given the design of the F117A. Btw, the Skunk Works started working on the F117A in the 70's, not the 80's; President Jimmy Carter alluded to it in a speech (for which he was roundly ridiculed).
Indeed, the F-22 a dedicated fighter/interceptor is a much better suited aircraft for hunting airborne targets. The Raptor is actually designated F/A-22 (fighter/attack) because it can carry the JDAM, but it seems an unlikely attack aircraft. Given current military/political doctrine, I suppose expensive military hardware has to have a multi-role capability.
Yeah because it's real hard to catch a converted airliner.
A converted airliner is still a constantly moving target and the F117A is not a fast plane. It still has to hunt this thing down in the skies without benefit of it's own radar and would be easy prey for any fighter escorts whose ability to detect the F117A would be on par with the F117A's ability to detect its target.
Sorry, but those failings only exist in the minds of those idiots that have no idea what they are talking about. Do you really think you can't use Sidewinders in an internal bay? Hint: The F-22 carries all it's weapons in internal bays and the AIM-9 is certified for use on the F-22.
Name calling is always a good way to make your point.
The internal bays of the F117A are different from the F-22. The F117A bays are underneath the jet, designed for holding bombs not AIM-9s. The F-22 deploys the IR guided AIM-9's only from its side bays, and although opening the bays at high speed would adversely affect the handling of the aircraft, the side bays have a lesser effect on aerodynamics than from the bottom. In addition, the F-22 can track the target with its own radar, close in enough to use its AIM-9s or select an medium range radar guided AMRAAM, which are fired from standoff distances and can be more safely deployed from the bottom bays.
I don't have enough Polish to verify this, but apparently this is genuine, with war-head and all electronics removed. However you are aparently legally able to drive this around, with a special license from the ministry of transport.
12,300.00zl is approx $3,000 USD - A bargain!
Fancy a drive up to Utah anyone;)