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An Xbox Live-like Service For Open/Indie Gaming?

Posted by simoniker on from the with-added-fourteen-year-olds-swearing-at-you dept.

Byrne Reese writes "Amidst all the crazy ideas in online video entertainment in the past year, there is a small company called Arena Unlimited that is taking an interesting approach to gaming economies. As near as I can tell, they're trying to open up a multitude of online gameplay services (e.g., opponent matching, free market item trading) to the masses (i.e., open source and independent PC game developers). (I shudder to think what would happen if one could actually introduce a legitimate and real free market economy into The Sims.) It's no Xbox Live, and their list of supported games is pretty small, but if they can do all that they say they may one day support, then sign me up."

23 of 129 comments (clear)

  1. PC vs. Console by lake2112 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There will always be fanatics to a certain game that will devote the time necessary to create a place for followers of the game with all these services. PC gamers tend to have longer-attention spans than console gamers and stick to usually at most 4 online games at any give point. I just dont think that the market is there.

    1. Re:PC vs. Console by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh please... If I hear any more "PC gamers are like this, while console gamers are like that" sweeping generalizations I'm gonna barf.

      As someone who plays both, I find it funny to be told that when I grab the PS2 controller suddenly my attention span takes a nose dive. Or whatever else.

      But let's talk attention span. It's PC games which typically are over in 8 to 10 hours. There's an entire industry churning mindless 8 hour FPS clones for the PC.

      Whereas most console games I've played packed 50 hours or more. Even KOTOR which was _huge_ for a PC game, was actually somewhat short for its genre as a console game.

      E.g., on the PC you get racing games with maybe 3 to 5 cars to choose from. Most are with cars from only one manufacturer. Some are with only _one_ car total. On the consoles? GT2. 'Nuff said.

      Want to talk online games? Good. Phantasy Star Online? Had a lot of people playing it for ages.

      So some people are being obsessive about a single game. And in the case of some people I know, they're actually playing the same map again and again, because that's the map on which they can impress their clan.

      I've watched someone, day after day and months after months, playing the exact same Counter-Strike map, running to the exact same spot, and jumping up and down in front of the same vent to see if someone's coming. _Hours_ in a row _each_ _day_ spent actually just jumping in place in front of the exact same vent hole. (Virtual aerobic, or what?;)

      It's not an issue of "attention span", nor of "PC vs consoles". It's just sad. And they'd do it on consoles just as well, if they had a clan of retards to impress with their l33t score.

      MMORPGs as a _game_ (i.e., talking about those who actually _play_ them, and not just use them as a fancy chat room with graphics) catter to a variation of the same obsessive compulsive group. The kind which puts up with 12 hours a day of boring, repetitive, mindless clicking on monsters, and with waiting in line for 5 hours at a monster respawn point... just to get to level 50 and build a castle. And imagines that anyone will actually envy him/her for that achievement.

      Again, it's not an issue of "attention span", and I do believe they'd be just as sad on a console.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  2. Hey... by Bendebecker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why not test out such things as a real free trade economy on The Sims before we try it out in real life? Would it not make more sense to test these policies out in a virtual world of real people instead of just going straight from a phisophical theory to a real world reality?

    --
    There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
    most of us won't be able to afford it.
    -- Lemmy
    1. Re:Hey... by seringen · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I really like your enthusiasm, but as you probably already know, philosophy never goes "straight ... to reality"

      Just as there was never a real implementation of Communism, there is no real "free market capitalism."

      There are, on a simple level, two reasons for this. One, no one can really agree what "free market capitalism" or "communism" is. The second one is that there's no way in hell politicians would ever inact something that makes sense without perverting it with "political realities."

      Being an economist is definitely a dismal science ;-)

    2. Re:Hey... by kfg · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Being an economist is definitely a dismal science

      If you aren't familiar with it you might want to see if you can track down a copy of Stephen Leacock's (Professor of Economics- McGill University) "Too Much College" for his view of what the field of economics was becoming, circa 1939, as well as his views of a number of other fields and education in general.

      There's a good chance your library will have this.

      Of course there's another reason none of these political/economic theories has been tried in their purest form.

      They simply don't meet the needs of people. Capitalism and democracy work great in the market place. They really don't in the private home where oligarchy is the only workable system. Communism works great in the monastary and group farm, but only when imbedded in a larger social framework that allows dissenters to leave freely and not distrupt the communal ethic. In the early days of America we experimented with privately held roads and bridges. It sucked. It sucked a lot. Socialism is the only really workable way to deal with such infrastructure.

      Some "political realities" have reality.

      KFG

  3. Re:shakeout of online games by aderusha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    not long i'd imagine, as new games come out with new features/graphics/bell/whistles to replace the old. evercrack and ultima online still are going, but given they're aging tech and the onslaught of newcomers, i don't imagine they'll be generating much revenue for long.

  4. It's a start by AvantLegion · · Score: 4, Interesting
    We need more services like Xbox Live in gaming. When I play something like Battlefield 1942 on PC, or SOCOM II on PS2, I'm always disappointed how some features of Xbox Live just aren't there, or are pale shadows of Xbox Live's. And of course it's not just one game, but lots. One of my best friends from high school is now in the Navy, stationed in Guam. He's mainly a PC online gamer, and it would be cool to have a friends list with him on it, saying what game and what server he's playing on, just like Xbox Live. That, and reliable voice chat.

    Microsoft cracked one out of the park with Xbox Live (apparently they save their innovative minds for their side projects). Let's move all online gaming in that direction.

    1. Re:It's a start by prockcore · · Score: 5, Informative

      He's mainly a PC online gamer, and it would be cool to have a friends list with him on it, saying what game and what server he's playing on, just like Xbox Live.

      Um, All Seeing Eye anyone?

    2. Re:It's a start by Deathlizard · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I would have to agree overall.

      Even though it's a pay for use network, and a lot of gaming companies dont like Microsoft getting in their online future business (EA for example), it's still is one of the best systems you can find on a console, and its game portable, which makes it really nice when you want to play more than one game with all your friends.

      And seriously, the one year price at roughly the price of a game is a whole lot better than monthly. Especially considering the value that it does bring to the online gaming table.

      Even the PC is going Live like. From the looks of things, it seems like Steam is trying to be a Live device for all things Valve, since it has buddy lists, automatic updating of content, and online voice chat intergrated. If they can work all the bugs out of it, It would be a whole of a lot better than most online gaming to date.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
    3. Re:It's a start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Good things about Live:

      * Consistent interface
      * Quick match in all games works the way it's supposed to: find a game and just play
      * Voice chat, for all intents and purposes, is a success

      Bad things about Live:

      * Where are the dedicated servers?
      * Even with everyone on broadband, there's still occasional lags
      * 12 year olds who haven't hit puberty (although there are a lot of adults on the service)

      Still, I think they've done a pretty good job, overall. Xbox is still my favorite system (for hacking and playing -- got about 20 games), and they can still improve, but it ain't bad.

  5. Planning for Slashdot by mlmitton · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, I love any company that can plan to be Slashdotted, complete with a google link to their home page at the ready.

    --
    "My girlfriend's got sodium laureth sulfate hair."
  6. Real free market economy into The Sims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's a safe bet the economic impact will be boring.

  7. It has to be said... by sarastro_us · · Score: 5, Funny

    But does it run on linux so it'll work on my hacked Xbox?

  8. Short list is an understatement by Quarters · · Score: 4, Funny
    "...and their list of supported games is pretty small."

    So small, in fact, that you didn't need to pluralize the word "games" in that sentence.

  9. Free XBox Live Clones... by igrp · · Score: 5, Informative
    Well, there are already a bunch of free XBox Live clones, e.g. XBconnect, XLink et al. Basically, these are all tunneling solutions and more or less of a hack.

    There's just no way those solutions will be competing with commercial online gaming platforms, like XBox Live, any time soon though. Mostly, for technical reasons: most console users don't want to have to deal with setting up a LAN or even basic routing functionality (as you have to do when using a tunneling tool), no matter how simple, they just want stuff to work out of the box. Exposure is another problem: XBox Live is a household name. Most people, on the other hand, don't even know that independently run online gaming services exist.

    It will be interesting to see how the PC gaming crowd, which is generally more inclined to tweak their systems and try new stuff, will react when free, preferably open-source online services become widely available. With high-bandwidth Internet access becoming affordable, or even standard, in many areas this might just turn out to be a very interesting thing(tm).

    1. Re:Free XBox Live Clones... by mbge7psh · · Score: 5, Informative

      The XBox Live clones you mention don't allow access to the XBox Live features many games now contain. Instead, they allow you to access the system link features that offer a more limited experience, usually limited at 8 or 16 players, no access to new content, and no chatting to other players. Unless a clone of the XBox Live service itself can be made, Microsoft will have the edge in online gaming for some time to come.

  10. Just how is this new and wonderful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been playing online games since what - 1997?

    How is an open games service any different from something like Gamespy, All Seeing Eye, or even just finding a server and logging onto it? yes, I know there are the issues with scoreboards and ranking and whatnot, but stuff like Raven Shield does that anyway.

    So, to cut my rant short: what makes X-Box Live so great that it needs to be open-sourced?

    Secondly, if X-Box Live is so groundbreaking, why the hell do I always hear about open source ripping off other people's models? I mean it's embarrassing! We bitch so much about Microsoft, but spend most of our time copying them: Media Center, Mono, Office, and now an online gaming community... way to go guys...

  11. IBM's got something like this... by ameoba · · Score: 4, Informative

    Over at IBM's Alphaworks site they've got a project called Business Integration for Games that seems to be oriented along these lines.

    --
    my sig's at the bottom of the page.
  12. Real world game finder.. by jefdiesel · · Score: 5, Funny

    The real money is in real world games..
    I'd pay if someone could tell me where the nearest topless women's volleyball game was, or even drop in floor hockey on a tuesday night..

    This whole 'internet' fad is bound to fade soon, I mean look at CB radio's, and we'll be back at home with no friendsters, and duke nukem forever still six months away!

    --

    I hate spyware and spies
  13. Oh yes there is... by marcus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...true capitalistic free market anyway.

    It's called the "Black Martket".

    Drugs, cigarettes, prostitution, software, satellite cards, anything that is regulated and/or taxed to opression or overpriced or has unserved demand due to a monopoly has a black market and as such also has a true free market.

    All that participate, do so by choice. They take the risks for the rewards. They pay the costs for the product. All suppliers compete in a totally unregulated fashion and all buyers are free to choose based on price and product.

    --
    Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
    - W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
  14. Black market has too many inpurities by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For one, there is an external force artificially deflating the number of available sellers and buyers. Sellers further reduce their own availability through rather underhanded behaviors. Buyers rarely have more than one supplier, and actual price competition is equally rare. Product has frequent impurities / misrepresentations. Information is horded by those who have it, lest external forces come down upon them.

    True free market economics, where every party knows all of the prices available to them and the actual quality level and statistics of the products offered, is impossible without regulating bodies ensuring that all parties adhere to such high standards of information accuracy.

    Just because a market is flying under the radar of the "evil, oppressive, taxing government" doesn't mean it is a free market. Try getting 5 quotes for verifiably 90% pure cocane on a Friday night.

    --
    The ______ Agenda
  15. the sims? by wisdom_brewing · · Score: 4, Funny

    I shudder to think what would happen if one could actually introduce a legitimate and real free market economy into... life?

    --
    I am very sucseptible to "let's have another drink"
  16. Re:actually, i think its "virtual property" by mbogosian · · Score: 5, Informative

    i am the lead developer of an open source game,Fmorg and somehow these arena unlimited people got my emailaddress, and sent me THIS....

    First, let me apologize if the e-mail was unwanted. Your e-mail address is listed on the Fmorg project page and we thought you might be interested in what we're doing.

    this sounds like a sort of scam to get us OO & indie game developers into some kinda contract on the off chance our game hits it big, and creates a demand for this crap

    Second, we're not a contract-based service. We don't charge or require anything from developers. Period.

    Personally, I'm an advocate of and contributor to the Open Source community. As long as I have any input, games released under any approved license will never be required to pay licensing or developer fees to use our system.

    We are constructing and offering a set of tools to be used at will by any developer who might benefit from the inclusion of such features. For example, if a developer wants to sell, say, cars to augment a racing game to help support development, etc., then we would like to help facilitate that in a convenient and secure manner. We don't have or want any say in setting the price. We're looking to support ourselves by collecting a small percentage of the sale (the majority of the revenue goes straight to the developer).

    my personal recommendation, JUST SAY NO TO SUITS!! -Ted

    We're really not suits, we promise! (If you don't believe us, then check out our pictures.) :-) So far the project has been entirely self-funded (all our cars are beaters and paid for if you don't count the repair bills -- by the way does anyone have a spare alternator for '92 MX-3?). Our biggest hurdle to date (aside from trying to find Other People's Money) is tearing ourselves away from BZFlag and Armagetron long enough to get some work done.

    But if you feel violated by our approach, I sincerely apologize. I hope you continue work on Fmorg with our without our help, as it looks very promising.

    --

    moto411.com