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EU Rejects Microsoft Settlement Proposal
Karl Cocknozzle writes "European Union antitrust officials have dismissed as insufficient Microsoft's offer to settle their most recent antitrust problem in Europe. Spokespeople for the European Commission and Microsoft declined to comment on a report in today's Financial Times that Microsoft had offered to include rival media player software from Apple and Real Networks on a CD-ROM packaged with personal computers to help resolve the case. Previously, the EU had demanded that Microsoft either unbundle Windows Media Player, or also bundle rival media players with Windows. It appears that Microsoft might get more than a slap on the wrist this time around."
Happy Trails!
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
It appears that Microsoft might get more than a slap on the wrist this time around.
It's got to. If the risk of breaking the law and getting caught is not substantially worse than the negative consequences of acting lawfully, then rationally, there is no reason to follow the law. That is what MS has done for years. And if the trend continues, they would be smart to continue doing just that.
I beleive the EU may have this in mind as part of the reasoning for sticking it to them a little harder this time.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
i would make mr gates walk from normandy to rome giving out cd's with slackware to everyone he sees telling him how sorry he is and how much France can kick his ass...
xao
http://TheHillforum.hopto.org
Now, I'm no Microsoft fanboy, but I really don't see what the big deal is with Windows Media Player. Like somebody pointed out (Monkeyboy Ballmer IIRC), Windows has shipped with a Media Player since Windows 3.1 at least, and nobody's complained about illegal bundling.
...
Of course, what they might be doing (although I haven't been able to find any reputable sources for this) is disallowing OEMs to pre-install, say, Quicktime and Realplayer on the systems they sell. If indeed they're doing this, that is (imnsho) abusing their monopoly, and they should be forced to allow OEMs and others to pre-install whatever software they want.
But to require them to bundle Quicktime/Realplayer/whatever with Windows? That seems wrong on so many levels
Dlugar
Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
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The simple concept of why a monopoly is treated differently has left some brains in their virginal state.
Most be a calcium overdose....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
There is some logic in the US going easy on Microsoft. They aren't nearly as impartial. Microsoft contribute greatly to the US economy, providing jobs, and significant cash/balace of trade inflows.
The EU is impartial, as they doen't receive similar benefits. The end result will be closer to what the US result should have been, but wasn't, unless Massachusetts prevails.
Apple has never strong-armed its vendors into bundling quicktime and forced them to drop competing products... Because Apple doesn't have any vendors selling OS X systems.
Apple is very friendly towards Real, and Real Player. A little less so since RealPlayer started playing quicktime on the PC (that pisses Apple off... a LOT), but they're still civil about it, and Apple knows that people want RealPlayer for OS X.
There was never any attempt to block the product from working with the OS (quite the contrary, we got lots of help making it work w/ the OS, and even got some time @ Macworld to show it off. I worked @ Real on the product) I don't think Apple has any kind of obligation to include the player, given their position in the market, vs. MS's
My sig is blank, I typed this by hand.
Microsoft had offered to include rival media player software on a CD-ROM packaged with personal computers to help resolve the case.
Who decides which (presumably free) media players go on the CDROM then? Is it just RealPlayer and 1 or 2 others (the major ones) or can anybody get in, i.e. Mplayer and other lesser known media players? And surely Microsoft's own WMP would have stayed the one installed by default, effectively nulling the advantage of having other alternatives available on the CD.
No really, that was obviously a trick to fool the EU antitrust commision. I'm glad they saw through Microsoft's "good will" proposals, unlike their US counterparts.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Let's hope that Microsoft won't be able to buy its way out like it did in the US.
Seriously, I'd like to see Europe calm down Microsoft. Let's them compete on pure merits, and stop quashing competition. One can only hope that in a few years, you will be able to choose between different OS, without locking oneself out of a lot of content.
I know that some alternatives start to emerge, and that you can now play a lot of videos on Linux, but the Microsoft lockin is still very strong.
Europe slapping Microsoft could mean more money from investors in rivals, thus leading in acceleration of competition's offerings.
A good thing, IMO.
Windows comes installed with Notepad, so now Windows comes installed with Notepad, EditPlus and UltraEdit. (even though they are better than notepad) Windows comes installed with MS Paint so can I get Photoshop installed with Windows.
I hate MS as much as the next guy because of their hideous record when it comes to competition and quality, but since when is bundling QT and RealPlayer seen as a solution to their monopoly? I mean, I want RealPlayer AND WMP both OFF my computer, and not be forced to suffer both of them!
A real solution would be to ship completely without the media player and any DLLs relating to it, and make people download it, or allow OEMs to install a competing player if they so wish. Same should be done for IE. I know that both are buried deep into the system, but it's their problem, not mine.
Additionally, they should be required to disclose their audio and video formats. If they are truly a part of the system, then this information is needed for interoperability. Let's hope we get open file formats, and not RealPlayer rubbish being forced down our throats in addition to WMP!
I can understand where Bill Gates et. al. are coming from. Most people who use Windows are not very proficient at using various media players. They want to be able to click on a link and automatically have it work AND have it be consistent. Out-of-the-box functionality is what Microsoft is trying to achieve, especially for all of the regular users out there.
As far as Microsoft is concerned, those who need Real/QT can just download it from their respective sites.
I think where Microsoft should really have been hit hard was with the whole IE/Netscape saga. With that, it wasn't simply a matter of not packaging Netscape with Windows, it was a matter of Microsoft's systematic attempt to destroy Netscape as a rival browser.
Ah well, just my 2 cents. And yes, I use Windows at work, but I'm a *BSD guy everywhere else.
You make a valid point about file format standards, the software industry does need to make use of file formats that are not tied to a particular operating system, making open file formats that can be viewed, played, read & written to, by any OSs applications is a must, companys like Microsoft is definatly not going to start doing this without a fight...
I hope the EU puts the squeeze on Microsoft since the USDOJ did not have the spine and/or gumption to do it...
"YOU AGREE TO BE
BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS EULA BY
INSTALLING, COPYING, OR OTHERWISE USING THE
PRODUCT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL
OR USE THE PRODUCT; YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR
PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND."
THAT is in the licensing agreement of Windows. Just for fun and to create a lot of headaches, go to your nearest retailer and tell them to take $200.00 off of the price of a computer you want and to delete windows from the hard drive because you do not agree with the terms of the license. They will jump up and down and say lots of funny things. They will tell you that "we cannot do that". Tell them that they are bound by the license agreement the same as you. Then after they are finished throwing their pop-eyed double-barrelled hissy fit, tell them that you decided that you can spend your $2K elsewhere and that they just lost a sale! It's fun, try it sometime.
It's about how tightly they are integrated into the OS. Come on, they can bundle all the software they want. You can't tell them what to put in their own product. However, the thing that bothers me is that they integrate Internet Explorer, Media Player, Outlook, and all their other crap into Windows and make it hard for other programs to achive the same level of integration. For example, in Windows XP Media Player is integrated into IE. Outlook is integrated into the user account. Outlook is speciallized for hotmail.
I get the distinct impression the EU is out to make an example of them and fine them ridiculously.
Yes, you are probably right. The EU probably wants to make some kind of a political statement to corporate America, and show that *they* won't be bribed.
But, Microsoft probably deserves to be smacked anyway, they got away with it once, and I'd be rather disappointed to see them get away with it again.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Unfortunately, I have little faith in the EU to actually successfully force the issue here. As one reader already commented, any restrictions imposed will almost surely never see light in the US.
Far be it from our own congressional leaders or regulators to take any inspiration from a EU success, but that is a separate tangent.
It is my opinion that Microsoft has the monopoly they have at the behest of the consumer market which continues to support their products with dollars or euros in this case. Dollars have always spoken louder than votes, and until a viable competitor arises any regulation/restrictions/bundling/unbundling current or future will be seen as nothing more than a minor set back for Microsoft, not a solution.
The recent success introducing Linux (or any other alternative) definitely suggests that such a thing is not the barrier, rather it is the mind set. It was "marketing", t-shirts and stupid stuff penguins. And it will take something similar, if more tangible to convince CEOs and CTOs that there is a viable alternative to windows. It is rather ironic that they complain with one handand then buy 100K in licenses with the other. It is the responsibility of the entrenched IT community to instigate change where such change is economically viable. This is not a principal issue, but an economic one and the ultimately, the best solution to the problem will win if presented correctly on a case by case basis.
Of course, this all circles back to my original point. Unless, the mind set of the consume is altered (ideally in the work place where I find most of the user trends are set), then and only then will the "monopoly" be broken. Any attempt to regulate/bundle/unbundle Windows and its products will fail so long as the dollar/euro votes continue to pour in.
Just my 2 cents.
I say screw it. Whats happened happened. If Microsoft is bad they will fail all by themselves. They don't need the rule of laws help.
/. users, Microsoft has in fact played their cards right in a lot of ways. It is not random chance that they're one of the largest, most powerful companies on the planet. On the contrary, it's very deliberate. I'd suggest doing some reading on the things they've done in the past. There's a lot of history in that company and many, many examples of behavior that a) was successful, and b) probably could have been curbed by a slightly less wimpy legal system.
Actually, they do need laws to help, because they have amassed a disproportionately large amount of power and without laws they will literally be able to do whatever they choose. This isn't a question of being a Microsoft fan or not, this is a question of a single company having enormous power and reach, and without laws that company can do (and has already done, even with laws, because they are always able to manipulate the circumstances in their favor) things that are unfair to other companies.
I'm no Microsoft fan either, but I stand in complete awe of their ability to succeed, regardless of the circumstances. Despite doing many things "wrong" according to
So, now M$ has claimed that their Media player is an intregral part of windows and windows would be "substandard" without it?
Interesting argument, much akin to the argument they used about IE.
Now, let's ask a hypothetical question. If this were about automobiles, and the question was about whether or not the manufacturer could force a person to use ONLY the built-in radio what would be the argument?
"Well, judge, if we had to remove the radio, we would also have to remove all the stuff it uses, like the wiring, the alternator and the battery, so the car wouldn't run. So, you see, the radio is an integral part of the car and forcing us to remove it and letting people use someone else's radio would cripple the car."
Absurd? Well, that's exactly what they said about their browser and are now saying about the media player.
The OEMs would be free to ship with no operating system, but would probably want to ship *something*, so they may choose a Linux desktop. If Be were still around, this might have changed their fate, or perhaps Apple might choose to release OS X for x86.
A variant would be to prohibit site licenses or other volume discounts for Windows.
In exchange, Microsoft can "innovate" all they want, if that's truly what they think they're doing.
You clearly do not understand what a monopoly is and isn't. Don't feel bad, as neither does a substantial portion of the /. crowd.
:
This is absolutely nothing like your example with BMW. To correct your analogy, the Microsoft BMW would
1) Enforce strict legalities on BMW dealers that they are not allowed to switch out the radios. Doing so can lose them their rights to deal in BMW products.
2) Design their engine so that if you removed the radio & replaced it with another, the engine would no longer start.
3) If a 3rd-party radio manufacturer finds a way around point 2, include legalities with your car's "license" (owner's manual/lease papers) that replacing the radio, even if it works, nulls and voids any manufacturer's warranty on the car.
4) Since no radio manufacturer is going to produce radios for that line of BMW because of 1-3, perhaps an end-user will attempt that. Assuming they are intelligent enough to bypass point 2, and careless enough to ignore point 3, BMW would not release technical specifications for how the radio actually plugs into the car's wiring system. In fact, they would intentionally make the wiring as confusing as possible, so that you have little chance of creating a radio that works as well as the factory radio.
I don't mean to start a flame war either. I'm just tired of hearing poor analogies like these that only indicate a lack of understanding of what a monopoly actually is.
Finally, let me point out that most countries agree that monopolies are perfectly ok, as long as you don't illegally use your fortunate market standing to maintain your monopoly.
I hate Windows Messenger. I hate the damn sticky key feature. I hate most of the accessories. Now, WMP ain't so bad, but BSPlayer is what *I* need. Did I mention ActiveX? Damn, I learned to hate IE... but, of course, is needed to patch Windows. MSN explorer? You keep it!
But, of course, to uninstall some of those you need to sell your first born male child... and the others (hint: IE) are just plain uninstalable.
You know what? It's an operating system. Bane EVERYTHING that's not using and following open protocols. TCP/IP? open - leave it. Outlook Express that connects to hotmail? Proprietary - erase it. IE? kind of uses open protocols, but we know it's not following standards. Bane it, or force them to change it. Oh, they want proprietary stuff? Ok, no prob, but not in the OS I paid for.
And, BTW, a ssh client would be nice, not to mention the daemon... I mean server.
Bite my shiny metal... oops... Nevermind!
I hear people complaining that Netscape and other products died because of the free market. Well they are partially right. Netscape was a pay for product. Along comes Microsoft and releases a free product that at the time was inferior to Netscape (still is IMHO) and gives it away free and then bundles it with their OS.
This may be fine for some people until Microsoft large feet step on you. Stacker was a good example, Stacker was making money hand over fist until MS released "their" version as a part of DOS. Stacker was no longer needed and sales dropped dramatically. Turns out that MS used Stackers own code and were too lazy to even change part of it to keep Stacker from finding out. Thanks to its deep pockets MS dodged the bullet and paid them off...Stacker died.
If you ran a bakery and I opened one next to you and gave everything away for free you would pitch a fit and try to have me closed down. If I copied your best seller by letting you do the ground work and then gave it away for free you would sue me. The customers could care less they get it for free but when your money is on the line it is a different story.
I hope the EU sticks to its guns. MS has had this coming for a while and it is nice to see that they can't buy their way out of every problem they make.
The problem is with each version of MS Windows comes a whole new set of applets that intrude on an existing market. Since MS gives them away for free the other players go out of business. This kills diversity: consumers who usually drive the market are shut out of the process and then MS moves on to dominate another market. With out any other forces at work M$FT would own the entire computer: the DOJ acting as a minor speed bump. M$FT would be in a position then to control all how you use your media and control who can sell it and who can buy it and dictate its onw profits. M$FT has managed to become both autocracy and parasite.