MPAA Prevails Against 321 Studios' DVD X Copy

more related news by stonebeat.org · 2004-02-21 06:14 · Score: 3, Informative

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Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better

Try this by markclong · 2004-02-21 06:15 · Score: 5, Informative

DVD Shrink. Rip your movies to the hard drive, and then burn them with Nero or some other DVD burnin software. DVD Shrink is free and works great. It is Windows however.

Re:Try this by Jameth · 2004-02-21 06:44 · Score: 5, Informative

For Linux just try:

mencoder dvd://1 -ovc lavc -lavcopts [whatever bitrate you want] -oac lame -lameopts presets=standard -o [whatever you want to name it]

If I were at home with access to a Linux box, I'd probably even be able to give the bitrate settings (can't recall the keywords off the top of my head). I think around 800kbps is a good bitrate, that's what I encode my home-videos at for storage. And always do 2-pass encoding.
Re:Try this by frission · 2004-02-21 08:15 · Score: 2, Informative

don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but the usefulness of dvdxcopy is that it can split a 9gb disc into two 4.7. this comes in handy if you want to keep all extras and not do compression on the video. otherwise, definitely use dvdshrink+nero.
i remember reading a discussion board with one of the developers some time ago, and they said, even if they are forced to take out the decss code, that it's still usable, although not as friendly. they mentioned that you should still be able to use something like dvd decrypter to decrypt the disc, and then run dvdxcopy if you want to split the disc.
don't know exactly how it works, but it sounds possible.
Re:Try this by BagOBones · 2004-02-21 11:25 · Score: 2, Informative

You would use DVD Decrypter to created a decrypted ISO then you would mount it with a virtual drive like www.daemon-tools.cc

Very easy.

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EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."

CNET by hendridm · 2004-02-21 06:15 · Score: 5, Informative

News.com.com has a little more commentary and some background for those who aren't in the know. Thanks to the DMCA, seems like an open and shut case to me. The judge seems to think they are violating both the letter and the spirit of the law:

321 has argued that since consumers who buy a DVD have the right to access their own movie, it would not be illegal to help them access it by using 321's software.

Illston disagreed, saying CSS was plainly a way to protect copyright holders' rights, as envisioned in copyright law.

I do think 321 makes some cool software. It will be sad to see them lose this one...

Re:CNET by kfg · 2004-02-21 06:51 · Score: 2, Informative

Nothing has changed. The CSS key is not a decryption key. It is a key that fits a lock, just like the key to your house. The items in your house are not encrypted, you only need the key to access them.

A DVD player checks the validity of the key on the CD and only allows the player to access the unencrypted video files if the key is valid. It's a lock box. That's all.

Nor is it true that DVD recorders cannot burn the key tracks. Otherwise there would be no 321 Studios copy product in the first place. That again is a function of the key and the playback software/decoder. There are any number of "products" perfectly capable of allowing a DVD burner to make a perfect bit by bit copy of the CD, which includes a perfect, fully functional, copy of the key.

CSS is a key, not a code key, and it is playback protection, not copy protection, and a bit by bit copy will only play in a CSS equiped machine.

The individual video files on a DVD may be played back a number of ways, as they are not encrypted.

KFG
Re:CNET by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-21 08:28 · Score: 5, Informative

The contents of a DVD are both locked and encrypted. You can do a simple check for this yourself. I used the bundled software with Creative's PC-DVD DVD/MPEG2 playback card. Other hardware/software and or software only players should work also. Put a DVD in your drive and play it using your DVD software. While the DVD is playing put it in pause. The DVD and drive have now been authenticated and you can now open your DVD drive in Windows Explorer and copy the VOB/IFO/BUP files from the DVD's VIDEO_TS directory to anywhere you wish. Copy any of the VOB files off the DVD and then try to read them with any DVD/MPEG2 playback software. You'll find any DVD/MPEG2 playback software you chose won't be able to understand the VOB files because while the VOB files have been copied off the DVD they are still encrypted.

CSS is a two step process. The first step is authentication of the media to the player. Without this step the DVD drive won't allow one to look at the protected file(s). The second step is decryption of the encrypted files.

For more information and a good overview of CSS see the DVD Demystified FAQ section 1.11 -- "what are the copy protection issues" especially part 3, section 4.5 -- "why can't I play movies copied to my hard drive?", section 4.8 -- "what is DeCSS?", or take a look at Frank Stephenson's cryptanalysis of CSS (couldn't find a link.)

I do agree with you however that CSS isn't really a copy protection method. There are too many other ways one may copy a DVD wihtout having to deal with CSS -- if one throws enough money at the problem.

Re:Sony? by telekon · 2004-02-21 06:17 · Score: 2, Informative

They tried... there was a lawsuit over VCRs, and there was a lawsuit over audiocassette recorders. But that was back when "Fair Use" still meant something as far as copyright law was concerned.

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To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.

Re:What does it matter by LostCluster · 2004-02-21 06:19 · Score: 3, Informative

Yes, but your DVD-R drive has no hope of creating a double-layered DVD like the kind Hollywood makes, so there's no way to put that image back into your standard DVD player with consumer equipment.

Re:What does it matter by John+Courtland · 2004-02-21 06:22 · Score: 2, Informative

I thought Philips was getting ready to release those. In fact, I think I remember reading (on here in fact) that some existing drives would just need a firmware upgrade to write double layered discs.

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Re:What does it matter by FelixCat · 2004-02-21 06:22 · Score: 5, Informative

Can't we just take an image of a DVD like any other media format?

The answer is both Yes and No. Yes, you can use say DeCSS to create an unencrypted DVD image on your harddrive. However, without something like DeCSS you can't simply create this image of the DVD.

The second slight problem is that most DVD movies are in DVD-9 format, which is twice as large as the standard DVD-R (4.7 GB). Hence, unless you have a DVD-9 burner, you can't make a 1:1 copy onto a DVD-R.

The interesting this is that once you have an "region free" decrypted version on your hard-drive the copy protection is gone. Hence, there is no legal restrictions for any program to manipulate the image from that point on.

So you can buy programs like Pinnacle's InstantCopy which takes an unprotected DVD image off your hard-drive, and automatically resizes (reencodes) the video to make it fit on a DVD-R.

Really the easiest way to keep your software out of legal problems is to not deal with CSS protected discs, and let some other software program do the work of removing the CSS protection.

DVD X-Copy did everything for you, all at the same time, hence was a single solution to the DVD backup problem. This made them a target.

Re:What does it matter by Psx29 · 2004-02-21 06:24 · Score: 5, Informative

A quick google shows an article from the end of December detailing the plans for dual layer drives that are due to come out soon. And this is why I don't have a DVD burner yet

Re:What does it matter by rsmith-mac · 2004-02-21 06:32 · Score: 5, Informative

No, you can't. Besides the double-layer issues others have mentioned, it's CSS(the encyption used) that gets in the way. Every encrypted DVD has 2 important pieces of information on it: the encrypted data related to the movie itself, and the CSS key on the disc. Now, while we can copy the encrypted data and the key, we have a problem when it comes to burning it. One of the quirks in both the DVD+ and DVD- standards is that drives can not burn CSS keys(this is prevented by both the drive itself, and the fact that the sectors where the key goes on the blank discs are unburnable), and it's because of this that we have a problem. Without the ability to burn the CSS key, the copy we make will be useless, since we won't have the key to decrypt the data with. We can decrypt the data before hand(this is what DVD X Copy does), and then burn the data unencrypted, but at that point, it's not a 1:1 copy anymore.

Your analogy is crap. by phillymjs · 2004-02-21 06:40 · Score: 4, Informative

When you buy a car, you own the car, period. You can do with it as you wish.

When you buy a CD or DVD, you're not buying the music, you're buying a plastic circle and a license to view/hear the contents of that circle. If your plastic circle eats it and becomes unusable for some reason, you still possess a license to the content, and as such should be able to get replacement media for the cost of producing the media.

Problem is, the movie/record companies don't want to have to replace your media, but they don't want you to have the right to make backup copies of it, either. And they own more congressmen than you.

~Philly

Re:Your analogy is crap. by Alsee · 2004-02-21 12:25 · Score: 4, Informative

When you buy a CD or DVD, you're not buying the music, you're buying a plastic circle and a license to view/hear the contents of that circle.

Common disinformation. You are buying a plastic circle circle that happens to have a copy of a movie on it. You own that disk and you own that copy. Yes, according to US copyright law you OWN that copy of that movie.

There is no such thing as a licence to view/hear/use something. Does not exist.

According to US copyright law a copyright holder has six exclusive rights, but they really only amount to 3 different rights. (1) The right to make new copies (and derivative copies). (2) The right to distribute copies (including digital audio transmission), and (3) The right of public performance (or display). Those rights are restricted by all sorts of limitations. Those rigth have all sorts of holes poked into them by exceptions.

Those are the ONLY rights a copyright holder has, and those are the ONLY rights he can licence to someone. A licence does not exist unless he is licencing you one or more of those rights. When you buy a retail DVD it does not come with a licence to create more copies, it does not come with a licence to distribute more copies, and it does not come with a licence for public performance. Therefore buying a DVD does not involve any licence at all. You bought that copy. You own that copy, you can do anything you like with it except for the limited exclusive monopoly listed above.

The copyright holder is not selling you a licence to anything, he does not have to replace damaged media. Heck, even if he did sell you a licence he doesn't even have to give you an original copy, much less have to give you replacements.I can sell you a licence to make and distribute and publicly perform a movie I made without giving you a copy of that movie. If you can get a copy of it from someone else, then fine, you can make more copies from that copy, but if you don't-have/can't-get a copy then tough luck you have a licence you can't use.

On the other hand one of the limitations on the exclusive rights given to copyright holders is that they don't extend to private personal use (or at least they were never intended to), which means that when you buy a DVD you have every right to make a backup in case it gets damaged.

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Re:Good thing by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-21 06:41 · Score: 1, Informative

Re:Good thing by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-21 06:47 · Score: 1, Informative

Better as well by dbCooper0 · 2004-02-21 06:48 · Score: 2, Informative

The DVD Xcopy doesn't produce as good a copy as the DVD Shrink + Nero combo. I stumbled upon it when setting up a friend's new burner.

At nearly the same time, I started reading that by April, the 8.5gb dual layer media and at least two brands of burners will be available.

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db
Cig:
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Jump on the bandwagon! by PalmerEldritch42 · 2004-02-21 06:48 · Score: 3, Informative

Looks like Macrovision is getting in on the action and suing them also. Here is 321 Studio's response. I guess everyone wants a bite at the apple. I hope 321 Studios gets a good team of lawyers.

Anyway, even if they have to stop making the software, it will live on forever in p2p sharing perpetuity.

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:wq!

It was unavoidable by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-21 06:58 · Score: 3, Informative

The judge had to rule this way.
By selling an encrypted format, the MPAA has carte blanche on how they want the DVDs to be used. If they didn't have encryption, the judge could have more leeway (such is the case with cds) to enable a more logical fair use of the media. As long as we support encrypted formats, we're doomed to merely borrow the content.

Re:A subltle point is being missed here! by asquared256 · 2004-02-21 07:02 · Score: 2, Informative

I doubt that the DVD CCA, which licenses CSS, would allow it. See the DVD FAQ at www.dvddemystified.com. It indicates that a CSS license costs $15,000 per year and is highly restrictive for exactly this reason.

Re:What does it matter by OeLeWaPpErKe · 2004-02-21 07:06 · Score: 2, Informative

You do NOT need deCSS to create an image of a dvdrom, obviously. A 1-1 copy will work fine.

Re:What does it matter by glitch! · 2004-02-21 07:09 · Score: 4, Informative

Yes, but your DVD-R drive has no hope of creating a double-layered DVD like the kind Hollywood makes

That's true, but DVD Shrink does an excellent job of compressing the content down so it will fit on an ordinary DVD-R. Or so I have heard :-)

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A dingo ate my sig...

What about... by n()_cHIEFz · 2004-02-21 07:14 · Score: 4, Informative

DVD2one? You can use a simple DeCSS program like DVD Backup, then DVD2one to compress and then just burn using your favorite authoring software. Sure DVDXcopy is easier for the masses but backing up your DVD's can still be done.

Given the number of DeCSS/Compression programs out there, I don't think the MPAA is going to be able to get rid of every tool to rip, compress and burn DVDs.

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-- Is it a right to remain ignorant? -- Calvin

Re:What does it matter by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-21 07:24 · Score: 5, Informative

I just want to point out to everyone that the MPAA only got an injunction; they did not win a lawsuit. I'm putting this under your comment because it is high up and rated similarly. The various news outlets seem to be spinning this story as MPAA lackeys, making it sound like 123Studios lost the fight. They have only lost the preliminary round. I cannot wait for the day when this gets through litigation and at the end the MPAA has to pay back 123Studios for all of their lost revenue. You cannot outlaw software which faciliates fair use, even if some misuse it. MPAA beware!!

Re:Sony? by Mick+Ohrberg · 2004-02-21 07:37 · Score: 2, Informative

Yes, Sony made Betamax (an excellent standard for monoaural audiovisual entertainment) and U-MATIC. Phillips made System 2000 (or Video 2000), while JVC Japan came up with VHS, which through deals with the movie industry ended up being the most popular and wide spread, although not necessarily the best system from a quality standpoint.

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Mussolini got there before you by Epeeist · 2004-02-21 07:37 · Score: 4, Informative

"Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism as it is a merge of state and corporate power."

Err, no? by mindstrm · 2004-02-21 07:55 · Score: 2, Informative

That is totally wrong.

video files on CSS protected DVDs are indeed encrypted, and key to decrypt them is itself encrypted (multiple times with multiple keys, each time stored in a separate entry in a table), and then stored on the dvd. A vendor uses his key (which will unlock one instance of the title key out of that table I mentioned) so his player can unlock the code to the title.

decss, DVD-Xcopy, and the like, all decrypt the dvd, they effectively REMOVE the copy protection on the CD.

If DVD players could burn the key tracks, we would see straightforward DVD copying, just like how you copy a CD. Show me this software, please.

321 Deserves To Hurt by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-21 08:28 · Score: 2, Informative

Remember, 321 Studios are the ones that sold "DVD Copy Plus" which was shareware/freeware they sold WITHOUT permission of the authors. They basically threw together a bunch of free applications with cheesy instructions and pretended it was a product. Then, they allowed everyone to use SPAM to market it. Great company. Yes, "DVD X Copy" is an original work, but nobody should forgive them for their previous scams. They only care that they won't be able to make millions from would-be suckers and casual pirates. (Everytime I go to Fry's I see a spindle of DVD+R/-R and DVD X Copy get sold.) There are plenty of FREE solutions. Burn, 321 Studios, BURN.

Frank A Stevenson's CSS cryptanalysis by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-21 08:35 · Score: 2, Informative

No wonder I couldn't find a link to Frank Stevenson's CSS cryptoanalysis -- I spelled his name wrong. A copy of his his paper is hosted at DeCSS Central.

You know not of what you speak by werdna · 2004-02-21 09:48 · Score: 4, Informative

They really should appeal. Sure it will cost a goodly sum in lawyers' fees, but the 9th Circuit (if you get the right judges) is quite liberal in terms of personal rights.

Nonsense. There is probably no less favorable forum in the United States for the defendant in a copyright-like action.

The 9th Circuit decided the Napster case.

The 9th Circuit decided the Sony Betamax case in favor of the movie studios before being reversed by the Supreme Court.

The 9th Circuit even decided that Vanna White's right to publicity was invaded by a commercial depicting a robot in a gown turning letters.

If there is a bright shiny sweet spot for owners of IP rights, and a dark nadir for balancing of the public's rights, it is the 9th Circuit.

Re:A subltle point is being missed here! by werdna · 2004-02-21 09:50 · Score: 2, Informative

The standard CSS license, available to anybody who will pay the fee and accept the conditions, would not permit 321 to sell their software.

Re:What does it matter by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-21 17:33 · Score: 3, Informative

You do NOT need deCSS to create an image of a dvdrom, obviously. A 1-1 copy will work fine.

Except you can't write the CSS key to a standard DVD-R. The area on the DVD-R where the CSS would go is not writable. You have to have a speacial DVD for Authoring drive and media (both are much more expensive) in order to write the CSS key.

In other words, you cannot make a 1-1 copy using standard DVD-R media and drives (and expect a DVD player to read it). You also cannot CSS encrypt your own content onto standard DVD-R media and drives.

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MPAA Prevails Against 321 Studios' DVD X Copy

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