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Earthlink Invests In Broadband Over Power Lines

Posted by timothy on from the keep-your-jacks-straight-please dept.

prostoalex writes "Earthlink dedicated $500,000 to delivering broadband connections over power lines by launching a test drive of the technology with Progress Energy in North Carolina. 500 homes involved in the projects can sign up for promotional pricing of $20/month, which after 3 months will be changed to $50/month. No word on bandwidth provided, but Ambient Corp., which provides technology for the project and accpeted EarthLink investment, claims data rates exceeding 10 Mpbs."

70 of 308 comments (clear)

  1. Interference problems... by detritus` · · Score: 5, Informative

    Once again the interference point has to be brought up, the company uses 5 - 70 Mhz, which dumps inteference out on the following bands:

    Several Amateur Radio bands (1.8, 3.5, 7.0, 10.0, 14.0, 18.068, 21.0, 24.9, 28.0, 50.0 Mhz)
    shortwave radio (7-14 Mhz)
    older cordless devices, such as phones (49 Mhz)
    CB Radio (29Mhz)
    Military communications (several)

    And there's probably more, but i'm too lazy to dig them up...

    --
    drunk chemists
    1. Re:Interference problems... by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Informative

      CB Radio (29Mhz)

      Small correction: CB Radio is on 27Mhz (11m)

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:Interference problems... by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the FCC will have to mandate retrofiting the powerlines with some sort of sheilding.

      by the time this gets to most people, it will cost 70 bucks a month I bet.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    3. Re:Interference problems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well here we go again, the same old argument : ham is old, Innurnet is shiny and better, so screw the hams. I'll sum up the arguments why hams should have their bands untouched by BPL (or any other interference for that matter):

      - Hams are useful to the community : they do aviation security radio watches, can relay messages from people at sea, and are often the last communication medium when all else fail. You don't believe me and that's normal, because it's never happened to you (or me, I'm too young). But I bet resistant fighters during WW2 really did appreciate, for example.

      - There are a lot of great technical advances that were made by hams, playing and experimenting on their allocated bands. To deny them the bands just so you can d/l pr0n in the middle of Alabama means to deprive the entire scientific and technical community of these discoveries.

      - Hams have been using their slices of the spectrum for decades, and had to work and pay for the privilege. In short, if nothing else, I'll say we were here first, and so we do have some rights in the matter.

      There are many other reasons why ham bands should be left alone, but this is /. and I don't want to bore you all.

      73 de F8EJF

    4. Re:Interference problems... by 36526542DD · · Score: 3, Insightful

      With one exception I have no problem with this post. In the past other hobbies and entire industries have fallen to "progress", and it will happen in the future.

      However, in the case of hurricanes, earthquakes, etc a major form of communication is amateur radio. If those airwaves are messed up by interference, we lose that blessing.

      I'd say the responsibility belongs with those bringing about Internet over powerlines to come up with a solution to stepping on so many frequencies.

      A solution may not be cheap or easy, but it is absolutely necessary if they want to continue.

    5. Re:Interference problems... by abcxyz · · Score: 4, Informative

      That only implies direct interference, if you were to look at the even/odd harmonics for those frequencies then the "potential" for interference could be greater. I'm a geek and broadband kinda person, and enjoy my DSL. This might turn out to be a wonderful last mile solution, but the concern from a ham radio perspective is that if it does cause wide spread interference then there's the possiblity of impact to the emergency services provided by amateur radio. Just a thought from a "Ham"

      -- w1rww

    6. Re:Interference problems... by brain1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      At least one thing will come of this. When the equipment begins blacking out HF spectrum, the furor should put this half-baked technology out to pasture once and for all. Imagine overseas flights using 10MHz HF SSB communications not able to get clearance to enter US airspace because their comms are blacked out by this garbage?

      If this gets to the point that it's deployed in my area, I plan to become *extremely* active on the HF Amateur Radio bands with *full* legal power. If it means fighting fire with fire, then by all means I'm prepared. They operate under the part 15 "non interference" rules. I operate under full FCC license to transmit. IOTW, I win. Hmm... when is the next DX contest???

      To quote Part 15: "must not interfere" means that they legally cannot interfere with my operation, and "must accept any interference" means that if I kill an entire neighborhood's internet feed, that's just the breaks. They cant stop my transmissions as long as I am complying with the rules and regs.

      But, being a realist, I suppose that once "big business" gets involved, then all they have to do is throw money, and they have plenty, at lobbyists and get congress to pressure the FCC to toss us hams off the air. Sadly, amateur radio does not have the status it once had.

      Comments?

      de N5DH

    7. Re:Interference problems... by silentbozo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But as other have pointed out in the past, if those frequencies don't work NORMALLY, there won't be a population of hams, in the area, trained up and ready to go, in the event of an emergencies. Ham radio isn't somthing you can put away for a number of years, pull out of the closet, and dust off. If nothing else, as older hams pass on, there won't be any new operators, because there won't be any reason to pursue ham radio as a hobby.

    8. Re:Interference problems... by mduell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Before they get to US airspace (12 miles) they'll be able to communicate via VHF (which has a range of 134 miles from 40k feet up).

    9. Re:Interference problems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Troll

      But I bet resistance fighters during WW2 really did appreciate it, for example.

      yeah, that was then. This is now.

      There are a lot of great technical advances that were made by hams, playing and experimenting on their allocated bands.

      There were alot of scientific discoveries using lots of things. But How many of these ham discoveries were in the past 10 years? Not to say that their couldnt be some new discovery, but this is just selfish coveting, not scientific necessity.

      Hams have been using their slices of the spectrum for decades, and had to work and pay for the privilege. In short, if nothing else, I'll say we were here first, and so we do have some rights in the matter.

      Thats why the FCC was created in the first place, so that the spectrum could be used as it best served our society as a whole. Not first come, first serve.

    10. Re:Interference problems... by Sleeper · · Score: 4, Informative

      For those who think HAM operators have no foundation behind their objections to BPL please visit this site and see results of actual studies on interference.

      There is a lot of additional issues surrounding BPL. Such as the fact that power market is regulated and comunications market is not. Utility companies are going to finance their excursion into broadband internet access out of your pocket even if you are not going to use it.

      --
      - Back off man. I am a scientist
    11. Re:Interference problems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ARINC is a private company that provides radio communications for all overseas airline flights using radio frequencies impacted by BPL systems. ARINC has voiced strong opposition to the BPL, since based on their analysis, it will cause interference. Even weak radio signals can, by forming large antenna arrays over a power line grid, transmit signals over hundreds or thousands of miles. The US Federal Emergency Management agency also strong opposes BPL because FEMA also uses HF radio frequencies for disaster and emergency communications. The American Red Cross uses frequencies near 47 Mhz for coordinating disaster relief, and also has use of certain FEMA HF frequencies during disaster operations. The BPL industry itself has filed comments with the FCC acknowledging the problems with radio interference. However, the FCC is suffering from clouded thinking due to the Commissions desire to wish that their is a fairy tale solution to magically delivery broadband to more U.S. residences. And that by adding an additional technology to the mix of solutions, we will see greater competition and lower prices. The FCC, though, is itself very much aware of the interference problem but continues to hope for some magic technology solution. Numerous countries throughout the world have tested - and shutdown - BPL systems because of the widespread radio interference. BPL in the U.S. will - eventually - suffer the same fate. For now, the power line enthusiasts say they will merely not use radio spectrum shared with, for example, Amateur Radio. But that solution works for only one of the parties - by the time they fence off all of frequencies used by numerous bona fide HF spectrum users, there will be little left to provide useful BPL services.

    12. Re:Interference problems... by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, I feel like stringing up a dipole antenna between two telephone poles and working CW DX @ 1500 watts. Sounds like fun!

      -- de N1ZPP

      --
      Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
    13. Re:Interference problems... by Kaboom13 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      -The internet is useful to the community, and with widespread broadband, could be even more useful.

      -There are lots of great technical advances made by internet users. To deprive people the bands so a tiny minority can putz around on it deprives the entire scientific and technical community of these discoveries.

      -We, the people, own the spectrum, and let you use it. Your rights in the matter end at your right to vote.

      There are many other reasons why ham bands should be given to more useful purposes.

    14. Re:Interference problems... by jelle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "impact to the emergency services provided by amateur radio."

      Very businesslike, this is a way to look at that:

      Basically, the interference should not be so high that a lot of Hams quit. It doesn't really matter how much interference there is, as long as the Hams still actively pursue their hobby, because when there is a need for those emergency services, the power lines and their interference will likely be down. Otherwise, the internet-over-power would still be working....

      So, for example, if the interference reduces the range of useful communications, then the amateur radio emergency services will not be impacted as long as the range is still enough for the Hams to get please out of their hobbies. When the power lines go dead, the interference goes with it, and the range is back to normal.

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
    15. Re:Interference problems... by jelle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Such as the fact that power market is regulated and comunications market is not."

      Whaddyamean, the communications market is not regulated? What does the FCC do then? And what are those taxes on my phone bills for?

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
    16. Re:Interference problems... by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The electro magnetic spectrum is a natural treasure. A) its the only one we have and B) its finite - we cannot go out and get more.

      the portion of the electro magnetic spectrum bpl wants to destroy is also very important because its the only section of the spectrum that bounces off the inosphere (allowing for long distance communications) and its also the part of the spectrum with the least amount of bandwidth.

    17. Re:Interference problems... by SWTP_OS9 · · Score: 3, Funny

      The only shilding that will work on this is to encase the power lines in a heavy braded material.... Oops! Thats the defition for coax!

    18. Re:Interference problems... by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Why is your use of the EM more benificial thein their use?

      They're not using the spectrum, they're trampling it. Those frequencies they're blasting are still officially designated for other uses. Look at it this way: What if the water company came up with a way to transmit data using pressure waves in the water mains, but the side effect was that water would leak out of the joints in the mains under the street and create hundreds of sinkholes in the road, rendering the road useless. Is their right to deliver internet-over-watermain so important that they should be permitted to ruin road transportation anywhere they put this in service?

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    19. Re:Interference problems... by scan2006 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When (not if) your local nuke plant is the target of some terrorist group and your computer is only good for a paper weight I bet you wish that you had a local radio operator still interested in the hf band to see if your mom, brother, son, or daughter was still alive.

    20. Re:Interference problems... by Loconut1389 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Good god, statements like this make me want to scream at someone. Ham is not and cannot be outdated. Get the pictures of morse code keyers out of your head, ham is about communications, the forefront of communcations. Picture satellites, rovers, talking from one continent to another around the world, talking from one part of a natural disaster to another. Until communications is outdated, ham will not be outdated.

    21. Re:Interference problems... by Loconut1389 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Taking this a step further to explain, since it -is- the only part of spectrum that bounces off the ionosphere, why in the heck should it be used for something that doesnt need distance propagation? If we're going to make the argument that the spectrum should be used in some other fashion (which i wholeheartedly DISAGREE with), then by god make long distance broadband 802.11ZZZ or some junk, why waste it on a technology that it is unnecessary for. Tons of communication methods depend on ionospheric propagation, BPL could use some other frequency range, or BPL could just never come to fruition and use some other means. This is about waste, about options, about ignorance, and about forgetting a community that donates millions of dollars and man hours to hopefully saving your life someday. Just because ham spectrum is free to use, and people have fun using it doesnt mean it is necessarily a hobby though some people use it as that. Is open source coding a hobby? Ham is the open source of the communications world. All of you who realize that truely innovative and novel software can come from open source should see that ham radio is the same thing for communications technology. The radio waves are the medium to test the new technology. While yes some old codgers collect old radios and such, ham is on the frontlines of innovation. To forget the past is to not understand the future. Those who keep track of old gear are honoring tradition, as well as the evolution of technology and understanding where it came from to better understand how to get to the next level. And hey, while I'm at it, when has open source saved your life? At least ham radio will get you to safety.

  2. ouch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    electrical internet is too dangerous for kids

  3. Error in summary by Mieckowski · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article says that after the first 3 months the price will be $39.95, which is about $40/month rather than $50/month.

  4. In the projects? by Larry+David · · Score: 4, Funny

    500 homes involved in the projects can sign up for promotional pricing of $20/month, which after 3 months will be changed to $50/month.

    Yo man, here in the projects we can't even afford $10 for groceries, and yo want us to shell out $50 a month on broadband? I don think this is gunna fly, man!

  5. Didn't we just hear about how dangerous this is? by paroneayea · · Score: 5, Funny

    Like how the combination of power lines and ethernet was supposed to grow cancerous tumors out of your eye sockets that develop into tentacles that molest japanese schoolgirls? I'm pretty sure there was just a story about that on slashdot just a bit ago.

    --
    http://mediagoblin.org/
  6. Bandwidth Capping by Mork29 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    claims data rates exceeding 10 Mpbs

    You know that you won't actually get 10Mbps for this, because the ISP's end bill and equipment needs would be to much. That's why all of the DSL/Cable companies have started sending acceptable usage warnings to their customers because they used up all of their unlimited bandwidth (God I love irony) (God I love being an agnostic who says God alot). Any who, as far as I know, this tech was meant more for giving broadband to them crazy country foke who ain't got them thar new digitized lines.... Right? Anyway, what is the range of these lines? How far away can you live from a "hub" or how exactly does that work....

    1. Re:Bandwidth Capping by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2, Insightful

      actualy, they send the warnings because the cost of supporting 1% of the users who use 70% of the bandwidth is to much and interfears with the other 99% of users.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  7. Mpbs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Mega promotional bull shit?

  8. Won't the internet just go *down* more? by Rockenreno · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Pun intended. High winds or storms can knock out power lines, causing people to lose power, but if the ethernet connection is hooked up to said poles, we'll lose internet as well. Oh, whoa is me. Then again, I suppose that unless you keep a generator to run your computers in case of a power outage, it wouldn't really matter if the internet is not working while you're power is out. It's the principle that matters though!

    --

    Forecast for tomorrow: A few sprinklings of genius with a chance of DOOM!
    1. Re:Won't the internet just go *down* more? by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2

      High winds and stores already knock out cable and telephone lines in suburbs and rural areas...what is the diffrence?

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    2. Re:Won't the internet just go *down* more? by gricholson75 · · Score: 5, Funny
      Oh, whoa is me.

      Keanu is that you?
    3. Re:Won't the internet just go *down* more? by mcryptic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well if the power lines go down you won't have power to run your computer.

      I'll be busy looting while the geeks sit in their basements waiting for the internet to come on.

  9. Tinfoil Hat^WSteel Helmet Time by sirReal.83. · · Score: 4, Funny

    Maybe I'm paranoid, or maybe I just read an article about certain magnetic fields damaging brain cell DNA. I don't remember though, because I just shaved with an electric razor. Damnit. Seriously, can we just get over this and invest in some Fiber to the Curb (FFTC) or Fiber to the Home (FTTH)?

  10. Not as cool as AOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    They've been advertising some new broadband over automobile solution that looked pretty fast.

  11. How long will it last? by cubic6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Like most regular slashdotters, I've seen this come up a few times, and every time it's mentioned that Broadband over Power Lines (BPL) interferes with all kinds of radios and devices, including ham radios and military communications. My question is this: does anybody think that the military will actually let this happen? Especially given our current state of paranoia, I just can't see the FCC overruling the armed forces and saying, "Nah! Change all of your communication gear so we can speed up Billy Bob Hick's internet!"

    --
    Karma: Contrapositive
    1. Re:How long will it last? by Bellhead · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Neither the FCC nor the Armed Forces make telecommunications policy in the way you infer. Both get their marching orders (pun intended) from Washington, and BPL has a lot of lobbying behind it.


      Please don't assume that the military will be able (or even inclined) to shout "Halt!" before the BPL onslaught: if they have to buy brand new radios to replace the single-channel paradigm they've been using for most non-critical traffic, then that's just another line item in a multi-billion dollar budget. That's what an industrialist would call a "Win, Win Situation", and any General officer would call a "battle not worth fighting".


      BTW, although the Armed Forces make heavy use of the spectrum between 30 and 70 MHz, their assignments are limited in the U.S. so as not to interfere with other users of that band: notably, TV channels 2, 3, and 4, and the public safety services others have mentioned.


      The 3 to 30 MHz (i.e., shortwave) bands haven't been used for primary communicaitons for years: satellite is prefered for over-the-horizon traffic, and even the lowliest dogface has access to email when in barracks, so the MARS system that used to carry phone calls in the shortwave spectrum isn't a big factor now.


      In other words, 3-70MHz is not the primary band used by the military in the U.S., so I don't think they've got a cock in this fight.

  12. Completely naive question... by dnaboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Not knowing much about how broadband really works, can someone explain to me why this wouldn't have the same limitations as DSL? So, with DSL there's a restriction on how far someone can be from a main telco box. Intuitively it would seem that broadband over power lines would hve the same issues, thus making it no more appealing to deliver broadband to the boonies than DSL, which the telcos have balked at due to cost. Thanks

    1. Re:Completely naive question... by Mork29 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Old copper can't always handle newer techs like DSL. I suppose that installing a "repeater" (if that applies to this tech) would be much easier than replacing miles of copper that still performs it's old job. Some phones are even done with metals other than copper which certainly couldn't handle DSL. I personally think that the wireless solutions are a better "bonnie solution". Examples have been on slashdot before but I'm much to lazy to search slashdot and google for all of you people.

  13. Whenever I read 10 mbps by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I add "...to Provider's nearest host".

    In my town great most providers advertise like this. They just install ethernet lines between people's houses. And then say, 500 customers, each on 10 mbit line are all plugged into one 1mbit line connecting with the rest of the world.
    Yeah, transfers like 1KB/s are quite common.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  14. Re:If there is one thing worse than Gates... by MaxPower2263 · · Score: 3, Informative
    I agree 100%. When I first moved to Houston, I tried to get Earthlink DSL. I apply for the service online and confirmed my order with a person through their customer service number. I waited ... waited ... still waited. Three weeks later, when I had received no service, no modem, no nothing, I called them back and asked what the problem was. "I'm sorry, since you live in an apartment complex, you are not eligible for Earthlink DSL service." It certainly would have been nice to get that tidbit of information three weeks ago!!

    And don't get me started about those commercials!! "An Earthlink address makes a good impression." My ass it does.

    --
    -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
    MaxPower (2263)
    "I got it from a hair dryer."
  15. Re:If there is one thing worse than Gates... by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 3, Interesting

    if you say so. I like their service, and I have no bandwidth caps...I leave them alone and they leave me alone ;-)

    --



    I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  16. And of course.... by LowTolerance · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I just moved from the very area they are test-marketing this in. Maybe it's not too late to move back...

    /me calls his old boss

  17. Power Supply NIC by seyden · · Score: 2, Funny

    So when am I going to be able to power my comptuer and get an internet connection with the same cable?

  18. Audiophile rant by billcopc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I know this is anal, but considering the lack of clear information about IP-over-powerlines, I will pose the following problem.

    I am a sound freak. I replace components in store-bought devices, I spend hours adjusting proper placement of speakers and matching cable lengths to millimeter precision. Now if some big ignorant comms corporation starts pumping multi-mhz modulation on my power lines, that will most likely affect my hi-fi components due to high frequency aliasing componded by cheap cabling and long distances. Wouldn't that be VERY BAD for these multi-thousand-dollar amplifiers that rely on crystal-clean power to do their thing ? Conventional power conditioners are designed for filtering minor surges and dips in power, as well as light induced noise (interference). Now if the company injects 'noise' on purpose, with higher amplitude and reflections accumulated over hundreds of miles.. methinks it will seriously hinder the transient performance of my gear and that of many other, more wealthy and lawsuit-happy people.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
    1. Re:Audiophile rant by AmigaAvenger · · Score: 2

      if you have a multi thousand dollar sound system, i would hope you have a line interactive UPS hooked up to that, not a cheap standard UPS...

    2. Re:Audiophile rant by lurker412 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, I'm sure that the folks who sell cables for $500 a foot will come to the rescue with $15000 power filters. Nothing but the best, right?

    3. Re:Audiophile rant by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd love to see how 5+ MHz signals in power lines translates to changes in the audio frequency bands.

    4. Re:Audiophile rant by benjamindees · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A buddy of mine (who's a cameraman) gave me the "your speaker cables aren't the same length" line the other day when my bargain-basement DVD-ROM drive and mplayer decided to garble the audio playing a DVD. I almost looked-up the speed of electrical propagation in copper and gave him a lecture but decided to say "you may be right" instead.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  19. Where is the Advanced Technology? by severoon · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm tired of people competing for frequency bands. Where are all the super-antennae that allow you to focus in a signal that's only 0.00001 Hz different than another, different signal next to it?

    Come on, technology! Figure it out! It's the 20-somethingth century for crying out loud. We should be able to have high-speed Internet connections and Morse code wonks. Why do we have to choose?

    sev

    --
    but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
  20. I don't buy this article at all. by maeltor · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work for IDACOMM. We are CURRENTLY doing testing with both Ambient (to the plug) and Amperion (wifi) and let me just say....Ambient doesn't work. The technology is just way to infant. We were lied to by their sales, president, and engineering departments about how far along their "techology trials" in New York were. We currently have about 50 people deployed on Amperion, and it works a lot better. We are working towards "to the plug" techology, but we know that it is going to be for a lot harder than these articles claim.

  21. Also they fail to mention... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    About how it has already caused 2 machines to become molten bricks of plastic. I know because I had to talk to one of the 2 customers.

    Replacement list:
    1. Wooden desk (burned)
    2. Computer/Monitor (charred)
    3. Everything that was in their office. (toasted)

    The project will be beta for a long time. They just did all this because they wanted to get people talking and maybe buying stocks (which I have too much of). Why am I posting this...because when people from india show up around my cube all of a sudden, I know I am on the endangered outsource to do list.

  22. Mpbs? by mr_jim83 · · Score: 5, Funny

    exceeding 10 Mpbs.

    For when you need 10 Million PBS stations.

  23. Re:just one pipe by taped2thedesk · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm hoping for power over cable line. The cable company isn't screwing me enough as it is.

  24. unfortunately Earthlink by frovingslosh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's a shame that this is being done with Earthlink, the company that cranks DSL and cable "inlimited users" news feed connection down to next to nothing if you dare use more that 1 gigabyte in a month.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  25. Will 220 give me 20Mbps? by chamilto0516 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I think this came from a Scott Adams (he was the telco industry and not yet the famous comic strip writer that we know and love) book, or maybe I heard it from somewhere else but it made sense: The challenge for telco's doing HighSpeed (DSL) was that they had mastered two-way personal communication but only at very low speeds. The phone system was designed for calls averaging only 3 minutes long. The cable companies knew how to deliver media, but only in one direction.

    My power company only delivers 3 things: high bills (like I will want to give them extra money), power and, my favorite, power spikes (I've gone through two coffee pots, 3 baby monitors and a dozen AC adapters for various things). Yes, the equipment is built by someone else but it will be installed and managed by people that are delivering the first and third things above. This does not have warm and fuzzy written all over it.

    We'll for some, a 3rd choice will be welcomed to drive rates down. For other's at least a single choice will be welcomed. More power to them.

    --
    Magic Eight Ball: Outlook not so good., Hmmm, how about Excel and Word?
  26. interference both ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    like someone else pointed out, the interference from the radiated signal will play havoc with radios, lets not forget it also goes both ways.. so being a Ham Radio operator I can only imagine that when I get on and key up with a kilowatt of SSB large sections of my neighborhood will suffer some serious packet loss :-), plus I have to wonder what my arc welder will do hehe

  27. Security by brainnolo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mhh how many informations will fly through the city on radio frequences? Isnt too easy to catch them? I mean the amount of credit card numbers flying isnt a problem as long as they are encrypted but there are still plain-text user/pass combinations, and especially e-mails are mostly sent plain-text (how many of you actually uses SSL for mails?) Maybe i didnt get exactly how it works but it looks to me pretty unsafe, i remember when i had one those little "walkie talkie", a very old one and i could catch many communications this way.

  28. Hey! by psyconaut · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why does my o'scope show that all my AC power is now 10 million cycles second rather than 60?! ;-)

    -psy

  29. And another problem. by chamilto0516 · · Score: 2, Funny
    ...and I'm sure this will screw up all that X10 stuff I purchased from thos pop-up ads.

    Screw the traffic LED on the router, my lamps-a-blink'n.

    --
    Magic Eight Ball: Outlook not so good., Hmmm, how about Excel and Word?
  30. What they're not telling about BPL by T_O_M · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There are several factors that the BPL industry isn't mentioning:
    - Even low-power, in-band transmissions can completely shut down BPL for a mile radius or more. Wonder what happens when I fire up my (FCC licensed) KW on 20 meters for a weekend-long contest?
    - BPL is for overhead transmission lines. Burried lines don't have near the capacity but ARE better on interference.
    - The bandwidth mentioned for BPL is STDM shared in the same way as cable modem service. YMWV
    - Last, BPL operates as an unlicensed part 15 service. All part 15 users are liable to accept ANY and ALL interference from licensed services and must cease use of a part 15 device that causes interference to a licensed service. This passes ALL interference problems off to the end-user.
    Turn it off NOW or go to jail...
    WB1GOT

  31. Gratuitous Technical Link by T_O_M · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Many (international) BPL interference studies can be found on the ARRL Web site: http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/

  32. This is a Bad Thing (tm) by sheapshearer · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Great... Now when a thunderstorm makes a tree fall on a powerline, I will loose:
    • Electricity
    • Phone (VOIP)
    • Cable TV
    • Internet.
    How is broadband over powerlines going to be affected by redundant power systems? My understanding is that unless you live in the sticks, there is supposed to be more than one path for electricity to reach your area...
    1. Re:This is a Bad Thing (tm) by betelgeuse-4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      During a power cut you can't use the internet or TV anyway. Unless you have a generator or other backup source or surf on a laptop/palmtop (I have none of these).

      --
      Decode these
  33. Amperion not Ambient by downbeat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think the original post got it wrong. The Progress/Earthlink test is using Amperion not Ambient.
    http://www.progress-energy.com/aboutus/n ews/articl e.asp?id=8362

  34. Lamp-posts as antennae... by DoctorRad · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I believe this technology was first tried out right here in Manchester. Unfortunately, it was found that lamp-posts acted as very nice broadcast antennae. Now you could put RF filters on all their power connections, but how much else are you going to need to filter?

    Matt...

    --

    Save the Bottom Line
  35. Introduced in Germany in 2001. Dead by now. by nonothing · · Score: 2, Interesting

    RWE, one of the big utility companies in Germany, introduced powerline internet in 2001. Read the announcement on Wired.
    From the article:

    "RWE hopes to have 20,000 subscribers by July and grow that to 100,000 by the end of 2002. Beyond that, the growth potential is enormous."

    Right. The last numbers were 15,000 subscribers early 2004 (compared to more than 2 million people using DSL, which by now is offered with 3Mbps).
    Powerline internet had technical problems from the start on and came too late.

  36. BPL too easy to sniff and DoS by Nonillion · · Score: 3, Informative

    The overwhelming problem with BPL is that not only does is radiate RF hash, but I could take a transmitter that puts out as little as 4 watts and completely disrupt a BPL signal. Other countries have tried BPL but have banned it (japan for one) because of the interference problems it produces on the HF bands.

    But instead of accepting the facts, the power company is going to try it anyway because the people in charge are even more clueless than the most brain dead computer user. How long do you think the power company is going to put up with "My Internet service keeps going away!" complaints from their user base before they do the right thing and run fiber to the households.

    Sure it may be fast and cheap, but it's suseptable to nearby radio transmitters and will be the most unreliable Internet connection out there. With the right radio equipment, packets could be sniffed, you could DoS the entire neighborhood with a CB radio or other low band or amateur HF transceiver. Not to mention all the RF hash that will be delivered to your house on a otherwise clean power line.

    --
    "I bow to no man" - Riddick
  37. Not to worry... by fluxrad · · Score: 2, Funny

    They're already working on Broadband Over Candle.

    --
    "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
  38. This may not be for real by Animats · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Ambient Corporation seems to be more about hype than products. Their main product is a "coupler" that allows passing RF around transformers. Those have been around for years, although the Ambient one is easier to install than the usual capacitors.

    Their new ideas revolve around ways to transmit data through underground power cables with multiple neutral wires. Big underground power cables are surrounded by multiple neutral wires, which has some shielding effect. The idea is to differentially drive those multiple neutral wires with RF. This is claimed to emit less external RF than driving the high voltage side of the line.

    In cities with underground cable vaults, it's easier to wire fibre or coax. Either provides more bandwidth. Ambient only claims 10Mb/s, and that's per cable segment, not per end user.

    This looks more like a specialized technology being overhyped than a major breakthrough.