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Electromagnetic Emission Art

mr_lithic writes "The artist Richard Box has used the electromagnetic field generated by overhead transmission cables to power 1300 fluorescent lightbulbs positioned underneath. Some pictures available. Professor Denis Harshaw at Bristol University explains "There's an interactive element to all this, too, for those who go to the site itself. 'You affect the lights by your proximity', explains Richard Box, 'because you're a much better conductor than a glass tube. And there's sound as well as light - a crackling that corresponds to the flashing of the lights. There's a certain smell too, and your hair stands slightly on end.'" Sounds cool and it is on until February 29th. Directons here."

198 comments

  1. The technology is going to kill us by FePe · · Score: 4, Informative
    This is what the future is going to be like.

    Yeah, yeah chips in your hair. 2000.

    A3 x 30. Taken in the studio this series of photographs depicts the artist fending off a swarm of silicon chips as if they were flying insects. The work deals with the effect, intended or not, of technology on the individual.

    --
    "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -- Leo Tolstoy
    1. Re:The technology is going to kill us by MDMurphy · · Score: 0

      It could be an illustration for Michael Crichton's "Prey", where the villans were swarms of silicon nano-bots

  2. electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by stonebeat.org · · Score: 1, Interesting

    other than powering flourecent lights, electromagnetic waves can also kill your brain cells. This is one art exhibit that i dont wanna go visit.

    1. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      yet you will gladly drive along side them every day.

    2. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by DarkHelmet · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, at least if you're gonna kill your brain cells, do it with something fun like booze, pot or ecstacy.

      Like the Joker says, "If you gotta go, go with a smile!"

      --
      /^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
    3. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      I think you will be safe...

    4. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      pot doesn't kill brain cells...cops beating you over the head because you have some does.

    5. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by Jonboy+X · · Score: 1

      Yeah, to say nothing of your sperm/egg cells...

      --

      "In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user. You've got your own newsgroup, alt.total.loser." -Weird Al
    6. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by dnoyeb · · Score: 1

      You dont have to go see it, its seeing you right now. Probably those lines are higher voltage than your average city line, but there is voltage nontheless.

      This is a strictly AC phenomonon.

      And it should be noted that he is effectively stealing power with all those lightbulbs.

      I find it hard to agree with the hair standing on end statement though as this is not static electricity. The current is always there, just because you brought some bulbs along does not mean there is more, in fact it means there is less.

    7. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by glesga_kiss · · Score: 3, Informative
      Neither does ecstacy to be honest. The only study that "proved" permament damage was recently dubunked as they had done the experiment with amphetamines and not E!. Of course, the original study is still cited as proof about the "dangers" of the drug despite this (and many other papers by the same research scientist) being completely thrown out by the scientific community. FACT: Going fishing carries about the same risk of death as going out clubbing on E. Horse riding is many times more dangerous! And with all three, if you understand the risks and take precautions, you can reduce the risk of death to practically zero.

      But the parent post did mention beer. That does kill brain cells. You do it every time you get drunk. That's what drunk is; the poisioning of your brain by alcohol. And death on alcohol? Go and ask an ER doctor. Lots, never published in the news.

      Of course, when the majority of anti-drug messages are funded by the booze industry you have to laugh. I quite like the one on DrugFreeAmerica.org, telling how Ecstacy almost killed a girl, until you actually read the article and find that it was GHB. Actually, all the articles on that site are just as bad, and they seem to have been written by the same person, very similar style etc. ALL LIES I TELL YOU!! ;-)

    8. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He's not stealing it; it belongs to the farmer whose field that presumably is and who presumably gave him permission for the installation. Just as the direct TV satellite broadcasts passing through my house and person belong to me. Also the 802.11b signal I'm using to post this, which originates at one of the buildings around here (don't know which, don't care). While it passes through my computer's antenna, it's mine.

      Speaking in terms of good old common sense, of course. Your local legislation may diverge from that wisdom (as it often does).

    9. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by afidel · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since high power lines are set back from the road at least 30m in most of the US and EM falls off at the cube of the distance I think there is a BIG difference between being right under them and driving past them.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    10. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by pcmanjon · · Score: 1

      QUOTE: "Since high power lines are set back from the road at least 30m in most of the US"

      Actually in several places around Fort Worth (Texas) they go OVER the roads (Forming an X where the lines go over the road)

      So, I'd assume FortWorth, Texas is the exlusion to this rule?

      Regards,

    11. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by pcmanjon · · Score: 1

      QUOTE: "He's not stealing it; it belongs to the farmer whose field that presumably is and who presumably gave him permission for the installation. Just as the direct TV satellite broadcasts passing through my house and person belong to me. Also the 802.11b signal I'm using to post this, which originates at one of the buildings around here (don't know which, don't care). While it passes through my computer's antenna, it's mine."

      So you're telling me that the electric pole that has the poles going in my property (backyard) contains power that I own? -- That I can legally tap into it even if I don't pay my electric bill, simply because one of the power polls sit within my backyard?

      Hmmm, interesting.

    12. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by yuri+benjamin · · Score: 2, Informative

      So you're telling me that the electric pole that has the poles going in my property (backyard) contains power that I own? -- That I can legally tap into it even if I don't pay my electric bill, simply because one of the power polls sit within my backyard?

      If the power company does not have an easement (aka right of way) to transmit power across your property, then their power lines are trespassing, in which case you COULD argue that you have the right to that power. The easement would have been arranged with whoever owned that backyard at ther time the poles were erected. If you didn't check out the land title before you bought it - tough luck.

      In the case of the farmer - I'm sure the power company has its paperwork in order so the power belongs to the lines transmission operator, not the landowner.
      In the case of some satelite TV company, they definitely do NOT have an agreement to broadcast their signal through my property, therefore I own whatever radiation enters my house.

      --
      You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
    13. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by pcmanjon · · Score: 1

      QUOTE: "In the case of some satelite TV company, they definitely do NOT have an agreement to broadcast their signal through my property, therefore I own whatever radiation enters my house."

      Then how are people going to jail for "intercepting" satelite tv?

      Obviously the law considers it stealing.

    14. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      EMF from a linear source (powerline) falls off at R^-2.

    15. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by e144539 · · Score: 2, Informative

      EMF from a linear source (powerline) falls off at R^-2.
      I wish I could mod that up
      Inverse Square Law, General
      "Any point source which spreads its influence equally in all directions without a limit to its range will obey the inverse square law. This comes from strictly geometrical considerations. The intensity of the influence at any given radius r is the source strength divided by the area of the sphere. Being strictly geometric in its origin, the inverse square law applies to diverse phenomena. Point sources of gravitational force, electric field, light, sound or radiation obey the inverse square law."

    16. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a couple of hours looking at the lights is unlikely to be harmful. Certainly hope so as I went last night. The currents are obviously very low - the lights don't exactly shine and are barely visible until it gets really dark. It is well worth a visit though, if anyone's in the area.

      I'll be happy to report back on the effects of long term exposure to overhead cables too in a few years - since i grew up living next door to an electricity pylon, last night is pretty unlikely to make my long prospects any worse. Arf.

    17. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by Tinidril · · Score: 1

      Just a bit of a warning, the direct TV arguement has already fallen flat in court. While you do have the right to intercept the signal, you don't have the right to decrypt it. Welcome to the DMCA.

      --
      XML is the best data format; unless your data needs to be read or written by a human or a computer.
    18. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by TheLink · · Score: 1

      But why should that post be modded up? He says it's from a _linear_ source (power line). Whereas your quoted law refers to _point_ sources.

      --
    19. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by iantri · · Score: 1
      Well, they cross the road here in Ontario, Canada, too. In fact, I can see one through my window.

      Bugger up my television reception, too :(.

    20. Re:electromagnetic waves kill also brain cells by yuri+benjamin · · Score: 1

      Then how are people going to jail for "intercepting" satelite tv?

      Obviously the law considers it stealing.


      Not all laws are just.

      --
      You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
  3. Wrong physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The bulbs will be 'planted' across the site at the foot of an electricity pylon, and will pick up the waste emission from the overhead power line.

    Not really. Lighting the bulbs most certainly reduces the power on the lines. The inductance of the power lines change because of the presence of the bulbs.

    1. Re:Wrong physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Its called mutual inductance. The changing magnetic field in the power lines causes a changing magnetic field in the 'pylons'(which are most likely a coil oriented correctly). This causes a current in the coil due to Faraday's law. This current itself then generates its own EMF which Lenz's law then shows will have the opposite polarity of the power line magnetic field. Thus, this new magnetic field attempts to generate a current in the opposite direction in the power lines, increasing their resistance.
      In short, he's using the power companies' power to light his bulbs. There are no 'waste emmisions'.

    2. Re:Wrong physics by SloWave · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I suspect the lights are lighted by the electric field instead of the magnetic field required for mutual inductance.

    3. Re:Wrong physics by Doug+Neal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are both interdependant, you can't have one without the other. Mutual inductance will most definitely be happening in this case. It's all about conservation of energy as well - if all the energy that's going into lighting up those bulbs was just being radiated out and wasted anyway, don't you think there'd be a hell of a lot of energy going to waste? There is some loss on power transmission lines but it's not as much as that!

    4. Re:Wrong physics by smchris · · Score: 5, Funny

      So the moral is: instead of tin hats, people who live under power lines should coat their houses in light bulbs?

    5. Re:Wrong physics by Dolphinzilla · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your correct - the tubes light because the electric field excites mercury ions inside the tube - AND energy that the tubes use is NOT free, the tubes with their little pins all sticking in the air create lower impedance paths to ground for the energy in the power lines to bleed off to - that is the points creates a high distribution of electrons tha nthe surrounding area and thus a high voltage.

    6. Re:Wrong physics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You don't actually know what you're talking about, do you?

    7. Re:Wrong physics by Dolphinzilla · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Being a true EE geek I have built a dozen or so various Tesla coils in my life (from a paltry 60,000 volt unit up to a 250,000 volt baby) these units would light up a flourescent tube with ease from 10 to 20 foot away - I have also lit tubes in front of very high power x-band radars (kids DO NOT try at home) - The basic prinicples and physics are the same for high tension power lines although the frequencies involved are lower. So yes, I do know what I am talking about....

    8. Re:Wrong physics by Zillatron · · Score: 2, Funny
      One of those things that took ten years to tell my Mom about: A friend was arguing the case that a flourescent tube had to be plugged in in order to work. I settled the issue by microwaving it for one second in my Mom's gigantic tukey-cooking microwave. Intensely bright. The opposite of me at the time.

  4. Science and Art by apirkle · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I think it's very interesting that the artist, Richard Box, is an artist in residence with the Physics department at the University of Bristol.

    It's cool to see art and science actively collaborating. From the article:

    The Physics Department at the University of Bristol has played host to a number of artist residencies. In 2002 artist, Richard Box was awarded a Leverhulme Grant to become the department's third artist in residence. Whilst the starting point for other artists have varied, Richard's main interest was in the specialist glass blowing workshop that is integrated alongside the rest of the physics research activities. His interest in glass has always required him to have objects made by others, this residency offered him the chance to begin to learn how to develop his own glass blowing skills and so have greater authority over his own work.
    1. Re:Science and Art by colmore · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think it's really interesting that the physics department over there seems make this sort of thing a habit. Universities are so often extremely tight penny penchers, I'm impressed that someone was able to convince the bean counters that this is worthwhile.

      I think the sculpture itself is really pretty, it reminds me of De Maria's Lightning Field, another large scale installation that uses the surrounding environment.

      --
      In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
    2. Re:Science and Art by liquidsin · · Score: 1

      And I think it's very interesting that parents would be so cruel as to name their child "Dick Box".

      --
      do not read this line twice.
    3. Re:Science and Art by jemfinch · · Score: 2


      The Lightning Field is protected by copyright. Photography of the sculpture and the cabin is not permitted.


      Since when could you copyright 400 metal poles in a 1 mile by 1 kilometer field?

      Copyright law is out of control.

      Jeremy

    4. Re:Science and Art by jrockway · · Score: 1

      I was just about to post a comment like this. I'm trying to find an email address so I can tell them how ludicrous this is. Copyright? Sorry. IANAL, but copyright would only cover me redistributing their pictures. If I want my own, and take them, that's legal. Sure you can refuse to let my camera on the premisis, but you can't say I'm infringing on their copyright. /me is off to New Mexico with my watch camera :)

      --
      My other car is first.
    5. Re:Science and Art by jrockway · · Score: 4, Informative

      OK. Done. I emailed them this message:

      To: rights@diaart.org

      Hello. I recently happened upon your page for "The Lightning Field". I
      was curious about how you could protect your metal poles from being
      photographed by copyright law. Copyright law prevents the
      redistribution of one's original work, but not the creation of new
      work. If I sold pictures that you took, I would be in violation of your
      copyright. Unfortunately, there is no law that prevents me from
      photographing anything.

      If there were, perhaps you would consider suing Microsoft and the USGS
      for the infringing aerial photograph at
      http://terraserver.microsoft.com/

      On second thought, perhaps you shouldn't consider that. Because if you did, you would be laughed out of court.

      Sincerely,
      Jonathan Rockway

      --
      My other car is first.
    6. Re:Science and Art by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Funny, yes, but sheesh. Could you possibly be any more condescending?

      If you're trying to change someone's opinion here, you might get better results if you watch the snide attitude. Just a thought.

    7. Re:Science and Art by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Actually yes there are laws, such as privacy laws, or indeed copyright laws, that prevent the taking of pictures even in public areas. In most Western countries you can't assume that just because something is visible you automatically have a right to take a picture of it, much less that you can sell the proceeds or even give them away. Try taking pictures of paintings in a museum for example, even for your own enjoyment, and see if you can get away with it.

      If you took your own picture of Mona Lisa in the Louvre in Paris, assuming you could fend off the hordes of tourists just to perform that feat, and tried to sell the proceeds, I can guarantee you that you would be sued and that you would lose.

      I'm not quite sure how this particular artist intends to enforce his copyright. I'm pretty sure that no one will stop you taking your own pictures for your own enjoyment, but technically they can definitely try. If you tried to then sell the pictures there are any number of laws you could be sued under.

      I'm not saying that these laws are right or fair, for example it has become extremely difficult for European journalist photographers to do their work as they have to technically ask permission of everybody they take picture of. This makes taking pictures of public demonstration quite hard for example. There are exceptions, such in the case of celebrities, etc.

      In Australia, for example, you are technically not allowed to take pictures of any event taking place on private land without the consent of everybody on the picture and of the landlord. Putting such pictures on a public web site without permission is a huge no no. I would presume that the UK has some similar set of laws, and I would definitely check if I were a professional photographer.

    8. Re:Science and Art by Threni · · Score: 1

      >Funny, yes, but sheesh. Could you possibly be any more condescending?
      >If you're trying to change someone's opinion here, you might get better results
      >if you watch the snide attitude. Just a thought.

      He's after an answer, not to change anyones opinion. His question was right on the money, and i'd be interested to read the reply, if any. If they hadn't pompously and erroneously attempted to copyright a piece of England then they wouldn't have got the letter.

    9. Re:Science and Art by frankie · · Score: 1
      copyright laws, that prevent the taking of pictures even in public areas. [ . . . ] Try taking pictures of paintings in a museum

      Umm... a museum is generally not a public place. If you're inside someone else's building, they make the rules (about cameras, at least). If you're outdoors on a public right of way, you can take photos of any damn thing you please. Or at least should be allowed to, except in a police state.

    10. Re:Science and Art by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      > A museum is generally not a public place

      Often museums are public building. In the US think of the Smithsonian, for example.

      > If you're outdoors on a public right of way, you
      > can take photos of any damn thing you please

      If you take a picture of someone even in public, AFAIK in most western democracies you generally need to ask permission. Sometimes permission is implied or not needed, but this is not the general case. Your right of taking pictures of what you want comes against their right to privacy or to make money (say) from their image. Usually the latter trumps the former. They can certainly forbid you to publish their image without their consent.

  5. free power by mistered · · Score: 4, Interesting
    This technique of using the field from high voltage transmission lines has reportedly been used by farmers to power lights in a barn or electrify a fence as this anecdote suggests. The power utilities supposedly have gone after those using the "free" power. I'm not sure how truthful any of these stories are though.

    Also, check out some of his other art. "A rotating, pulsating, elevating, sound and movement activated, life-size neon brain." Now that's just strange.

    --
    Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two.
    1. Re:free power by Hao+Wu · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Isn't this what the Navy used to spy on Soviet sea cables?

      ref: Operation Ivy Bells

      --
      I suggest you read Slashdot
    2. Re:free power by SloWave · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You can get quite a bit of power with just a few loops of wire in the right place under the high tension lines. It would be stealing since you are putting additional load on the power lines. However the lights in the article are being by the electric field driven by leakage current which is lost anyway.

    3. Re:free power by SloWave · · Score: 1


      Stupid Touch Pad!!!

      >>>However the lights in the article are being by the electric field driven by leakage current which is lost anyway.

    4. Re:free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Within the past few years there was a court case in which it was declared that stealing electricity via a wire running along the ground was illegal. Perhaps somebody with access to legal library can find the case. Utility companies patrol their lines looking for these kinds of "taps" and will not hesitate to press criminal charges.

    5. Re:free power by SixDimensionalArray · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This was during the spy era of the Cold War, and it was Operation Ivy Bells. The submarine responsible was the specially outfitted USS Halibut.

      As for how they actually listened in, it was not exactly picking up EMF from outside the cable. Rather, they simply tapped the copper wire by physically inserting some new wire into the cable right alongside the old wire and planting a recording device.

      It's not very difficult to do, and you won't easily be detected when you do it (unlike tapping fiber cable, which can instantly be detected). What's more curious about this case is after some time, when they went back to the location, the recording devices were missing! ;)

    6. Re:free power by kwoff · · Score: 1

      I'd tell the power companies if they want me to not use the power, then keep it off my property.

    7. Re:free power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >However the lights in the article are being by the electric field driven by leakage current which is lost anyway.

      There's no such thing as lost current.

      The EM field generated by the power lines simply exists. It doesn't take power to create it, as such, it's use of that field which causes the current drain. Current is "lost" by power line transmission, but that's lost in the form of heat due to resistance of the wire.

      An EM field is not a "thing" as such. It exists as a function of distance from the power source and the amount of power on that source. If nothing's using it, it really isn't there.

    8. Re:free power by alienw · · Score: 1

      If nothing's using it, it really isn't there.

      Well, it IS there, it's just that the energy is not being used by anything (except leakage currents due to capacitance and so on).

      Here's a cool experiment that will demonstrate this. Take a small DC motor (like from an R/C car), and connect the terminals together. You will find that it takes more effort to turn the motor than with the terminals open. That's because the pulsating EM field that's generated by the magnets inside the motor causes current to flow in the motor windings (which are connected to the terminals). So you basically are using the motor as a generator, and all of the electric current gets dissipated as heat. If you disconnect the jumper wire, the axis of the motor will spin freely because no current can flow between the terminals (all the energy goes to friction).

  6. directions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    What? No GPS coordinates?

    1. Re:directions by Soruk · · Score: 2, Informative

      What? No GPS coordinates?

      The car park is at ST 756 778 (in OSGB notation), or 51deg 29min 52sec north, 2deg 21min 7sec west.

      From there, walk as per the directions on the website.

      --
      -- Soruk
  7. Here in the Philippines by digitalchinky · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I toyed with ideas of free lighting (living close to high tension power lines)... seems a little pointless considering thousands of locals run jumper leads of the damn things anyway, with complete immunity from Meralco (Elec company)

    Easier to jumper someone elses jumper leads anyway.

    1. Re:Here in the Philippines by mistered · · Score: 3, Interesting
      One of my friends had some trouble with his underground power connection. The utility inspected it while he was at work, and phoned him and told him they'd need to jumper his neighbour's power. When you're used to jumpers being little plastic caps that go over .1" spacing header pins, it's a little bit of a shock to come home and see a trio of 1/2" wires coming out of your meter, tied to the fence, and then running into the neighbour's.

      --
      Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two.
    2. Re:Here in the Philippines by HPNpilot · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nobody is running jumper leads to multihundred kV transmission lines. That would be outrageoulsy dangerous and difficult to do.

      Even attaching to a 7 kV local HT line is beyond what most people could survive doing unless they were EXTREMELY lucky and had a decent amount of knowledge.

      STAY AWAY FROM THESE LINES. NEVER NEVER NEVER ATTEMPT TO ATTACH TO THEM. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. SERIOUSLY!

    3. Re:Here in the Philippines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There was an interesting documentary about Yanks trying to manage an electric co in Georgia (former soviet). It was a bit like post-apocolypse sci-fi, everything degenerated and people running leads from semi abandoned electric stations to get free electricity, and yes, it was dangerous and people were killed. The electric co could provide greater safety, but they had a hell of a time getting anyone to actually pay for electricity, not a lot of money around and they were so accustomed to just getting it free.

    4. Re:Here in the Philippines by ColaMan · · Score: 2, Funny
      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
  8. Stealing energy by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The artist Richard Box has used the electromagnetic field generated by overhead transmission cables to power 1300 fluorescent lightbulbs positioned underneath

    Technically, he scoops out energy from overhead lines. True, it's insignificant, but still he could be charged with theft. Of course, since it's art, I doubt anybody at the power company will say anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if they told him to take his art somewhere else.

    A well know, similar "application", was demonstrated when wireless transmission technologies boomed in the 30s in Paris : the first antennas had been installed on top of the Eiffel tower and were putting out dozens of kilowatts. Some smart guy started selling battery-less flashlights under the tower, and a lot of gullible people bought them, amazed that they indeed created light magically without batteries. Little did they know the magic flashlights had a little coil inside that used the Eiffel tower antennas' HF power to light up the bulb, and therefore could only work under the tower. The flashlight seller was eventually caught and, far from being charged for scamming people, was charged for stealing TDF (French wireless authority) energy, which was apparently much worse.

    But anyway, pretty cool art I say. The cows in the field nearby must have fun watching that every night.

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:Stealing energy by Monkelectric · · Score: 1
      True, it's insignificant, but still he could be charged with theft.

      Man who did your brainwash job? I've got some supermodels that need a similar degree of manipulation :) Whatever sucking up EM fields is, it sure isn't theft, no matter what the french say :)

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    2. Re:Stealing energy by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Informative

      Whatever sucking up EM fields is, it sure isn't theft, no matter what the french say

      You shouldn't have slept through your EE classes.

      Having a coil under the Eiffel tower is exactly similar to having a secondary coil in a transformer : whenever you have a load drawing current on the secondary coil, the primary coil (in this case, the Eiffel tower's antennas) have to provide that power, despite the fact that there's no physical connection between the 2 coils. So if you have antennas putting out 50kW and a coil drawing 10W nearby, that's 10 less Watts in radio power.

      This guy's art also draws energy from the power line. The tubes don't light up for free do they?

      But I'll tell you what : if sucking up EM fields isn't theft, tell me where you live and I'll coil a long copper wire around a mile-long stretch of the powerline that goes to your house and power my trailer with it. I'm sure you won't mind the higher bill from the power company in your mailbox, since I'm not stealing anything...

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    3. Re:Stealing energy by benjamindees · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think that the courts would probably err on the side of you (and this guy) being able to have your coils wherever you want to have them as long as it's legal. Farting in the wind probably causes increased resistance for trucks driving down the road but no one would call it stealing.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    4. Re:Stealing energy by Monkelectric · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Actually, I don't disgree with the physics of the situation, just the philisophical implications :)

      If having an inductor under a power line is theft -- what isn't?

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    5. Re:Stealing energy by RandyOo · · Score: 2, Informative

      You said:
      "But I'll tell you what : if sucking up EM fields isn't theft, tell me where you live and I'll coil a long copper wire around a mile-long stretch of the powerline that goes to your house and power my trailer with it. I'm sure you won't mind the higher bill from the power company in your mailbox, since I'm not stealing anything..."

      Since the meter is normally located at/inside the residence, he wouldn't get a higher bill from the power company, would he?

    6. Re:Stealing energy by BroncoInCalifornia · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I can see this scenario:
      Farmer who lives close to power line makes some big coils to nab some of the energy in the air around his house.

      Power company: You are stealing our power. Stop.

      Farmer: What are your E fields and H fields doing on my property. Get them off or let me use them as I see fit.

      ...

      This could turn into quite a pissing contest!

      --

      Religion is the main cause of atheism.

    7. Re:Stealing energy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that the courts would probably err on the side of you (and this guy) being able to have your coils wherever you want to have them as long as it's legal.

      Considering that it actually is illegal to do this sort of thing, I think that the courts would side with the power company.

      Unlike copying data around on the internet, this *is* theft. You're taking power from the lines above. Period. The lines no longer have that power that you are taking from them. Whether you have a wired connection or not, it's still theft.

      Unlike the article and some posts here seem to think, this isn't using "wasted" energy. The energy just isn't wasted in that way. It's radiated as heat due to resistance of the wire, and that part is wasted, but that's *it* as far as losses go, other than conversion losses in the transformers, of course.

    8. Re:Stealing energy by Otto · · Score: 1

      If having an inductor under a power line is theft -- what isn't?

      How is it *not* theft? You're siphoning power from the line, just as much as if you'd put a cable and transformer up on the thing. Exactly as if you'd done that, in fact.

      The lack of a direct connection does not imply that no connection exists between the two. It's theft because you're taking something that doesn't belong to you without paying for it. Power. There no "waste" from those lines in that way. If nothing uses that EM field, then there's no drain as such.

      An EM Field is not a real physical object. That's one reason we call it a "field". What it really is is a function of distance from the power line (in this case). The field only exists insofar as it can be used. But there's no electrons flying through the air or something like that. There's no radio waves transmitting this "field". An EM field can propagate through space with no transmission vector whatsoever because it's not really there at all. It's a property of space itself. See?

      --
      - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    9. Re:Stealing energy by Reece400 · · Score: 1

      Note the article mentions it depends where you stand, as your a much better ground than the lights. If this is indeed true,, you stealing just as much energy by standing under them as a few lights would be, now think about a crowd? is standing under hydro lines theft?? If so, they should really put up some decent fences, If I left a pack of batteries in the middle of a field, and someone cameby and picked them up, you could hardly say they were stolen...

      Reece,

    10. Re:Stealing energy by Otto · · Score: 1

      Note the article mentions it depends where you stand, as your a much better ground than the lights. If this is indeed true,, you stealing just as much energy by standing under them as a few lights would be...

      No. You're a better ground than the air *around* the lights. Meaning that you equalize the potential difference better than the air does, and thus the lights dim.

      It doesn't mean that you're conducting as much energy as is going through the lights just by being there. It means you're bringing the ground higher up in the air than it would be if you weren't standing there, and thus there's less potential from the top of the light to the bottom of the light.

      --
      - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    11. Re:Stealing energy by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If it's being sent through the air, then anybody should be able to use it, regardless of frquency.

      Sorry, but really, you run an item near someones home, and it gives of energy, the people in the home should be able to use it. If you don't like it, find another way to deliever your energy.

      If you are not connected to the power, then you are not stealing. tresspassing, maybe.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    12. Re:Stealing energy by pedrop357 · · Score: 1

      tell me where you live and I'll coil a long copper wire around a mile-long stretch of the powerline that goes to your house and power my trailer with it. I'm sure you won't mind the higher bill from the power company in your mailbox, since I'm not stealing anything...
      Unless your copper wire were somehow placed after the meter-which usually lives on the side of the house, why would the home owner see a higher bill?

    13. Re:Stealing energy by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Citizen, you are using up valuable space and stealing resources. Carousel time for you!

      --
    14. Re:Stealing energy by ACPosterChild · · Score: 1

      The power company has Z kilowats of power running through the lines available for sale. These lights each take Y Watts. Powering X lights causes the company to lose X*Y watts of power, that it can no longer supply to paying users.

      It's not the same as, say, broadcast TV. In that case, watching a channel doesn't take away one potential paying customer.

    15. Re:Stealing energy by ACPosterChild · · Score: 1

      The power company has Z kilowats of power running through the lines available for sale. These lights each take Y Watts. Powering X lights causes the company to lose X*Y watts of power, that it can no longer supply to paying users.

      It's not the same as, say, broadcast TV. In that case, watching a channel doesn't take away one potential paying customer.

      Also, power companies get OKs before building lines. They don't just start radiating this stuff onto people's property without asking; and by the time you're far enough away form the base to be out of the land the power company has use of, the em field strength is probably too low to effectively use.

      (note: this comment is mostly a repost)

  9. Stealing or not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Does arrangements like that actually "steal" any power from the powerlines, or would it be lost anyway if it was just air instead of neon tubes?

    1. Re:Stealing or not? by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Informative

      Does arrangements like that actually "steal" any power from the powerlines, or would it be lost anyway if it was just air instead of neon tubes?

      They do draw energy from the line. If they weren't there, the voltage differential in the static field would stay high and no (or little) current would be sinked into the ground under the tube.

      Another proof: assume each tube spits out the equivalent of 10W in light, there must be like 1000 tubes in that field, so they burn about 10kW all the time. I don't think the ground underneath normally sinks 10kW for each 100mx100m square : if it did, it would heat up, and very long lines would lose so much power over the distance that they would bankrupt the power companies.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:Stealing or not? by gordguide · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He is using a source of energy, and translating it into work.

      The source of energy is clearly owned by an identifiable person or group. Therefore the use of that energy is actionable. The right-of-way that allows the powerline in the first place gives the power company further arguments to strengthen their position.

      The amount of energy used is measurable. Therefore he could be billed for it. Need I go on?

      A smart Power Company would probably like it all to just go away, because it raises the possibility of health issues, so making a big deal out of it probably isn't a good idea.

      Then again, a smart law firm that senses an opportunity to bill a few hours might convince a gullible board to pursue it. There are plenty of reasonable arguments that could be offered to encourage them to re-affirm rights over the use of borrowed power in this fashion (even though those rights are well established already). Companies don't always do what is in their best interest.

      If it becomes popular or more common (negating the value of shutting up about it) expect to see the lawyers get a call.

      As a final note: consider that the actual means to use the power is irrelevant; just because it doesn't directly connect to the grid means nothing, now that it's proven it's not necessarily a prerequisite to using the energy in the first place. it's just a technical detail.

    3. Re:Stealing or not? by Dan+Farina · · Score: 1

      Actually, he's not turning it into work, since work is defined as force * distance or the integration of pressure dV.

      He's turning it into a EM wave visable by humans.

    4. Re:Stealing or not? by gordguide · · Score: 1

      Say what?

      I mean there's nothing wrong with your definition. You just don't understand the terms and how they apply to science of various disciplines beyond the grade-10 "push a box" example.
      [quote]
      Energy Basics
      [snip]

      VI. Power
      -The rate at which work can be done is also important when considering energy
      -Power is the work done per unit time
      -The unit of power is the watt
      -Power (watts) = Work (joules) / time (sec)
      -A common unit of energy build on the watt:
      1 kilowatthour (kWh) is the amount of energy that would be delivered in 1 hour at the rate of 1 kilowatt.
      -Your electric bill is calculated as the number of kilowatthours x rate/kWh
      -For example, my electric bill:
      $7 basic chg + 0.01613/kWh fuel chg + 0.06306/kWh (1st 600 kWh) + 0.04465/kWh (rest)
      -Light bulbs are rated based on the amount of work done (or energy consumed) per unit time. An 80 watt bulb would consume twice as much energy (and if the same type of bulb deliver twice as much light) as a 40 watt bulb.
      [end quote]

      (c) George Mason University

      http://mason.gmu.edu/~rcjones/110energylec1.PDF

  10. At last, an event near me! by Chilliwilli · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Will be headed out there with a camera ASAP. Perhaps local /.ers should arrange a meeting time and all go at once.

    --
    Cure cancer.. and stuff! www.team45.info
    1. Re:At last, an event near me! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Physical slashdotting? There's a new idea.

    2. Re:At last, an event near me! by tttonyyy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I thought that too - went out last night (25th) for a look. There were quite a few people walking to and from the site, and local TV were there taping an interview. I took a few long exposure shots with the digital camera + tripod which came out OK.

      The tubes were literally planted into the ground in neat rows, and it was quite surreal walking amongst them and seeing them turn off as I approached. Touching the tops seems to half-illuminate them again.

      I must admit I was expecting it to be under one of those really high-current and high-voltage pylons that constantly hum and crackle, but it was all very quiet out there.

      Definitely worth a visit.

      --
      biopowered.co.uk - catalytically cracking triglycerides for home automotive use since 2008. Just say no to big oil!
  11. Daily Mail carried this story previously by weeble · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://openapps.harkness.co.uk/junk/

    There is a copy of the article and the picture covered by the Daily Mail.

    --
    Slashdot Beta should die a painful death.
  12. Theft? by DAldredge · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is this theft? I ask because in the past, before the current overkill laws againts computer crime, crackers where charged with theft of electricy. Could he be charged?

  13. Edible Electromagnetic Emission Art by G4from128k · · Score: 5, Informative

    Microwaving chocolate is a fun way to both measure the speed of light and get some edible artifacts of the patterns of the electromagnetic fields inside a microwave oven.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Edible Electromagnetic Emission Art by sploxx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that you not measure the speed of light but the wavelength of microwaves. To get to the speed of light, you'll have to know the frequency of the microwaves.

    2. Re:Edible Electromagnetic Emission Art by Bagels · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that came up on Slashdot quite a while ago... I seem to recall that it only works with a very specific type of microwave (one that doesn't have a fan in it to scatter the microwaves - they're very rare, only found in really old ones).

      --
      --- Bwah?
    3. Re:Edible Electromagnetic Emission Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can also spread sugar on a plastic tray to see the various nodes and anti-nodes inside your microwave. Or at least this is how Consumer Union used to do it, before microwaves with turntables became the norm.

      More recent microwaves have a "fan" (effectively, a microwave radiometer) above the chamber that helps scatter waves around inside.

  14. Power Lines have links to other Negative Effects by MidiSaxMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Growing up on a farm, I have learned of the negative effects "stray voltages" cause to farm animals.

    This is often linked to the power return to the station. Everywhere, electrical service has everything connected in relation to ground, with any difference in the power balance of the phases of power taking a different path back to the source of the power, i.e. the ground itself, and potentially through anything in its path.

    This "stray voltage" manifests itself when animals, with 4 bare hooves, paws, etc. touching the ground, detect small but irritating (to varying degrees) levels of current taking an alternate path back to the source. Animals have also been proven to have a higher sensitivity for detecting stray currents as well, compared to humans.

    Often in cases, to the power companies defense, they will come out to do a check on the premises, and often do find a problem in the local, on-farm wiring, potentially causing the problem.

    Unfortunately, in the cases of newer farms where all the wiring is new and up-to-code, a stray current is often traced to off-the-farm sources, for example, a newly-installed High-voltage Power Line.

    --

    Do Not Accept Defeat; Believe in your Dream. --me
  15. Reconfigure the Lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    The power company deserves to have their power stolen because they are too cheap to reconfigure their lines to reduce the electromagentic output:

    http://tdworld.com/ar/power_line_designs_reduce/

    1. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by cperciva · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let me guess: People deserve to have their cars stolen because they are too cheap to install expensive anti-theft devices?

      Or is it only large corporations which deserve to be stolen from?

    2. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by frause · · Score: 1

      Or is it only large corporations which deserve to be stolen from?

      Yes?

    3. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Not having an expensive anti-theft device doesn't impact the health of those around the car.

      So yes, if the power company is impacting the health and well-being of those who live near power lines then they deserve to have all of their power stolen.

      Whatever goes through my body is mine.

    4. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by tzanger · · Score: 1

      I'd be really nice if that article actually had figures 1 through 3 so I could see the configuraiton. :-)

    5. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by kwoff · · Score: 1

      No, also people who support large corporations over actual people.

      Someday it will be illegal to use the sunlight directly from the sun.

    6. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People deserve to have their cars stolen because they are too cheap to install brakes

    7. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by jimmyswimmy · · Score: 2, Informative

      The article references using "passive loop shields" - sounds like additional wires running the length of the transmission line. Those wires are expensive! In school we once did a project similar to this. It turns out that the minimum time-varying flux (voltage) is created below the lines when the three lines are in the equilateral-triangle orientation with the point towards the ground. That way you get some cancellation for free. I remember my power lab TA from some South American country telling us an interesting story. Evidently where he is from they often run a different line configuration known as the wye, which has four wires instead of three (delta, like we have here). The extra wire carries almost no voltage and is there for balancing currents. Most of the time as long as everything is okay the extra line is almost unnecessary. He said all the time people would actually climb the towers and steal the neutral. The value of the copper is worth the risk of cutting the wrong line. Every once in awhile he said they would screw up and try to cut the wrong line. That must be spectacular to see.

      --

      Just my $0.55 (US inflation, 1774-2008, for $0.02)
    8. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I would suggest that it's those who are too paranoid and stupid not to install expensive anti-theft devices who deserve to have their cars stolen. And preferably cubed.

      As to whether taking energy from the air is theft, it's not as clear cut as you might think. In my jurisdiction, I have the right to reverse engineer the DBS broadcast passing through my house. If I do that, do I also have the right to the radio energy contained therein? An antenna is not so different from a coil.

    9. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Or is it only large corporations which deserve to be stolen from?"

      Corporations have the same rights as persons under law. As persons they can be regarded a psychopathic assholes. What they deserve is to be locked up in a mental hospital until such time as they are better.

      Additional candidates for commital would be people who think corporations are good persons worthy of the same respect as real people.

    10. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you buy products from major corporations?

    11. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by mrogers · · Score: 1
      I don't advocate stealing from corporations, but we shouldn't talk about the moral treatment of corporations as if it's equivalent to the moral treatment of human beings. Corporations are amoral, inanimate objects and thus have no right to moral treatment - they don't "deserve" to be stolen from, and they don't "deserve" not to be stolen from. Morals describe how you should act towards other sentient beings, not towards inanimate objects.

      Of course every corporation has human owners, and it could be argued that you're indirectly stealing from the owners when you steal from the corporation. But as Ambrose Bierce said, a corporation is "an ingenious device for securing individual profit without individual responsibility". Shareholders are not held morally responsible for a corporation's actions, so why should they expect the moral prohibitions which protect them as individuals to extend to the corporation they collectively own? Either a corporation is morally transparent or morally opaque, but it shouldn't be a one-way mirror. Otherwise a corporation would become an instrument which allows people to act immorally while claiming moral protection for themselves.

    12. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by syukton · · Score: 1

      No, but people who leave their windows down and their keys in the ignition deserve to have their cars stolen.

      Much more fair comparison, that.

      --
      Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
    13. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by ColaMan · · Score: 1
      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    14. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by slothman32 · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between their power coming into your property and you going into their car. If information or power is in my airspace I can tap it. Not I don't actually do this but it isn't the same as going into someone else's car or lawn to steal.

      --
      Why don't you guys have friends or journals?
    15. Re:Reconfigure the Lines by kwoff · · Score: 1

      Yes. Does that give them the right to own sunrays?

  16. Not theft. by nicklaszlo · · Score: 1

    I don't think so, because the magnetic field will be there if it's being used or not. It's just passive absorbtion of the company's waste.

    1. Re:Not theft. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it is theft. See one of the many other posts about why (I don't feel like repeating it all.)

    2. Re:Not theft. by Shinglor · · Score: 1

      So where do you think the energy would go otherwise? The ground? It would get extremely hot.

    3. Re:Not theft. by wes33 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      no it is theft; iirc the drawing of energy from the field will increase inductance (??) and somewhat decrease the power transmitted on the line (not much). I've heard tell of people using this method to light billboards and being charged with power theft ... might be just an urban legend.

      I once got quite a little jolt from touching a barbed wire fence that ran parallel to a high tension wire ... kind of like those electric fences used for animals (no current so I'm here to write about it, but plenty of volts). Speaking of urban myths (or not), I've also been told a story of someone being killed by touching a large metal pipeline that ran parallel to major power lines.

  17. Re:Electricity fun by etLux · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, I liiim, er, lvoplx, er, liiivee unnnder pwoer liens, and n-n-n-othin gggg has has has has has has has has [thwack thwack] huppened two too to MY brain.

  18. Theft. by frause · · Score: 1

    It is more or less the same as plugging in a transformer on the powerline to power the lights.

    The question is where we draw the line of theft.

  19. Richard Long... by quinkin · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    I had a music teacher called Dick Long...

    Q.

    --
    Insert Signature Here
    1. Re:Richard Long... by tzanger · · Score: 1

      I repaired a VCR for a guy named Jack Gaugh...

  20. Forest by shoemakc · · Score: 1


    The inductance of the power lines change because of the presence of the bulbs.

    A new spin on the "Tree falling in the forest" enigma, isn't it? :-)

    -Chris

    --
    --an unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys--
    1. Re:Forest by frause · · Score: 2, Interesting


      A new spin on the "Tree falling in the forest" enigma, isn't it? :-)

      No, more like a new spin on "fair use" (or something).
      If you walk under the powerline and thus happens to draw current from it without paying, is it then theft?

  21. Re:Welcome to the future of America. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yes, god forbid, if the fortune 500 keeps it up, it will just be one more person in the Phillipines who can afford electricity; And I'll be damned before i let that happen...America can't be the greatest country in the world if everyone else has electricity. If god wanted the heathens to have elctricity he would have built them a power plant like he did for us precious americans

  22. Or illegal emissions? by tjstork · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think the piece is more of an artistic rebuttal of the assertion that these high energy transmission lines are safe for humans and animals.

    If you've got an EM field that is powerful enough to light up 1000 light bulbs, it seems intuitive that there is enough energy to cause harm to humans living at similar distances.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Or illegal emissions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you've got an EM field that is powerful enough to light up 1000 light bulbs, it seems intuitive that there is enough energy to cause harm to humans living at similar distances.

      Just goes to show you how wrong intuition is about these sorts of things.

    2. Re:Or illegal emissions? by bani · · Score: 1

      AC said it but I felt it was important enough to repost since a lot of people filter 0's:

      Just goes to show you how wrong intuition is about these sorts of things.

  23. Reminds me of school by panurge · · Score: 5, Interesting
    This is a true story. I was there, I saw it.

    Our physics teacher was using the Van der Graaf for an experiment (in fact, he was intending to measure the current it produced). Over the demonstrator's bench, a fluorescent tube was flickering. He got annoyed. He climbed on a stool to remove the offending fluorescent.

    You can guess the rest. The remote end of the tube dropped towards the van der Graaf. About 10cm from the dome, there was a spark. The dome discharged through the tube, which flashed, the physicist, and the stool. Most impressive.

    The tube survived falling on the bench. We learned several things from this:

    • Contrary to belief, our teacher knew the f-word.
    • The current was actually so small, as it had to pass down a wooden stool, that he was unhurt.
    • Given enough volts, wood conducts.
    --
    Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
    1. Re:Reminds me of school by Thomas+Shaddack · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Wood doesn't have to conduct. It's enough it polarizes; the wooden stool then acted as a dielectric in a capacitor. Capacitors can make pretty flashes, both when you charge them with high-enough voltage source, and when they discharge. Hint: Don't touch a high-voltage capacitor before you shorted its terminals with a screwdriver; if the device you just opened was powered off just a while ago, you may avoid a sparkly surprise.

      Capacitors also make good coupling between AC lines and other wires in their vicinity. I had a case when we got a grounding wire broken in a wiring cabinet, and all the computers connected to that circuit had slightly "live" cases - enough to light up a neon bulb slightly, enough to feel "live" on touch when you have high-enough skin resistance, enough to show on a high-impedance digital multimeter (some 60V AC), but not enough to show on a lower-impedance multimeter of a technician the building maintenance person called in after we complained. I had to borrow them my own multimeter.

    2. Re:Reminds me of school by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      > * Given enough volts, wood conducts.

      Corollary: if you see a downed power line, don't try moving it with a wooden pole. In fact, just wait for the power company's technicians to arrive. They're trained, equipped, and they're covered by workmen's compensation.

    3. Re:Reminds me of school by skraps · · Score: 1
      Contrary to belief, our teacher knew the f-word.

      LMAO!!! Where are my mod points when I need them?!

      --
      Karma: -2147483648 (Mostly affected by integer overflow)
    4. Re:Reminds me of school by jrockway · · Score: 1

      That's a great sig. It really utilizes all of the language attached quite well. It isn't COMPLETELY affected by integer overflow, but it's mostly affected by it. Good work :)

      --
      My other car is first.
    5. Re:Reminds me of school by skraps · · Score: 1

      Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week. :-)

      --
      Karma: -2147483648 (Mostly affected by integer overflow)
    6. Re:Reminds me of school by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Apparently even power lines that have been shut off still can have enough residual voltage to kill. Apparently an unfortunate acquaintance of an old colleague found that out first hand. Well unless someone didn't shut off the power when they were supposed to. Still I won't be surprised it takes a while for many kilovolts + charge to decay to safe levels.

      "I had to borrow them my own multimeter."

      Hmm, interesting misuse of borrow. Do you speak chinese or something similar?

      --
    7. Re:Reminds me of school by ACPosterChild · · Score: 1

      Naws, he's speakin' Kentucky!

  24. Not Theft by benjamindees · · Score: 1

    It is more or less the same as plugging in a transformer on the powerline to power the lights.

    And so is simply standing anywhere within 100 feet of something like this. *Everything* within earshot causes a measurable increase in the resistance of power lines. It's not theft just because, in this case, the amount of power diverted is more than it otherwise would be.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    1. Re:Not Theft by frause · · Score: 1

      I know. The problem is defining theft.

  25. Political by jago25_98 · · Score: 1

    That's good art :)

    So all you need to do is stick a fluorescent light underneath?

  26. Re:Power Lines have links to other Negative Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just can't buy this. Working with networks between buildings, ground differences are never more than a few volts, not even enough to tickle. The current carrying capacity is huge, though, leading to ground fault currents that might range into hundreds of amps fro less than a volt of potential difference. This is the reason that all network technologies involve electrical isolation from the network wiring.

    More likely what your farm animals were responding to is the potential gradient established between the power lines and ground.

    This reminds me of a lawsuit that OSU settled while I was a student there. They had some research going on in high voltage power distribution lines (~ 100 kvolts). The lines were run over farms outside of Columbus. Mounted about 200 feet above the ground, that gives a voltage gradient of about 500 volts per foot.

    Well, it turns out that the owner of the property, a woman, was out working in the fields one day and squatted to take a piss. Urine, being the excellent conductor that it is, with about 500 volts potential across it (assuming that the source of urine was about 1 foot off the ground when she squatted) conducted electricity right through some sensitive parts!

    She sued OSU for pain and suffering.

  27. Can I get an insurance for this ? by thrill12 · · Score: 1

    I mean, with the latest research on electromagnetical radiation in my mind, and this being a high-level electromagnetical field, I certainly do not want to take the risk to get back from that site with a rotten brain...

    --
    Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
  28. It seems people have been sued for this by enosys · · Score: 4, Interesting
    A while ago I searched for info about this sort of thing online. It seems that farmers using fences or long wires to get power have been sued for it. I've even read about people who lived close to high power transmitters running fluorescent tubes from small antennas and being sued for it. This is mainly just from usenet posts but I feel there's enough info out there to show that at least some of this was real.

    I also remember one of my high school teachers talking about how he used to work for hydro and look for this sort of thing while flying in a helicopter and inspecting power lines.

    Really it shouldn't be that hard to find this sort of thing. You can just use a time domain reflectometer, and power companies have these for finding cable faults.

    1. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by MemoryAid · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Okay, you got me with the "time domain reflectometer." That sounds like something Professor Frink might mention on The Simpsons.

      Seriously, though, how about a little detail on what that does? I suppose I could Google it, but here's my guess:

      The device measures the distance along the line to an increased area of inductive load by timing the reflection of a signal from that part of the line. The helicopter then flies out that far and looks for an antenna.

      Here's another question: Why are British power companies referred to as 'hydro?' Is hydro-electric the default method of producing electricity there? Or is power transmitted around the country using high pressure hydraulic lines and then converted to electricity on site? :-)

      These questions keep me awake at night (briefly).

      --
      Language students: Don't try to learn English here. This ain't it.
    2. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by enosys · · Score: 5, Informative
      The time domain reflectometer (TDR) injects a signal into a wire and then gives you some info about reflections that happen. It essentially measures impedance along the line and so it will show anything inductive, resistive or capacitive on it.

      I'm sure a lot of people here have heard about TDRs being used to troubleshoot network cables.

      As for electric companies being called hydro, I'm in Canada (A former British colony and in the Commonwealth) and it's the same here. It really doesn't make that much sense anymore because most power comes from other sources.

    3. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by lommer · · Score: 1

      You asked two questions, and gave two possible answers, and both are surprisingly 100% correct.

    4. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by Ambient+Sheep · · Score: 3, Informative

      > Why are British power companies referred to as 'hydro?'

      Um, they aren't. Or if they are, I've never noticed in all my years of existence in the U.K. We also tend to have "secondary schools" not "high schools", so I'm pretty sure the grandparent poster wasn't British.

      Hydro isn't the main method of production over here in the U.K. The figures for England and Wales are:
      35% - Gas
      34% - Coal
      15% - Nuclear
      7% - Pumped Storage & Renewables
      5% - Interconnectors
      4% - Oil
      (Source: http://www.electricity.org.uk/media/documents/pdf/ Intro_UK_Elec_Ind.pdf
      There's more hydroelectric stuff in Scotland, which those figures don't cover though.

      While I'm here, the power-line in question is a major National Grid line (Melksham - Seabank / Imperial Park) carrying 400kV, with a peak power-flow of 161MW along one circuit and 481MW along the other, according to the National Grid website. Even before I saw the directions I knew where it was as it's very distinctive - most pylons in the U.K. don't look like that, they have the three phases stacked one above the other on each side of the tower. The cable configuration in the photo is usually only used for brief hops over sudden hills, as it is in this case. I wonder if the fact that it has four sets of conductors nearest the ground rather than just two was a factor in him choosing that site? (Yes, it's quite near Bristol, however there are other lines, indeed stretches of that line, that are much nearer.)

    5. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by Zaak · · Score: 1

      Really it shouldn't be that hard to find this sort of thing. You can just use a time domain reflectometer, and power companies have these for finding cable faults.

      Out of curiosity, how do you hook up a TDR to a hundred kilovolt power line? For example, how do you generate an impulse big enough for its reflection to be detected above the massive noise on the line?

      TTFN

    6. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by tornado2258 · · Score: 1
      Hydro power comes from here.

      Used to be the only company in Scotland but recently there have been shake ups nad now you cna choose what company you get you electricity from.

    7. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by Ambient+Sheep · · Score: 1
      Interesting, thanks for that!

      Shall I say then, that in all my years of living in England and Wales I'd never heard the term used as a synonym for electric companies before. Shame on me, as my Dad was born and brought up in Ayr, and I visit now and then.

      I did say that Scotland had more hydro power though, perhaps I didn't realise quite how much. ;-)

    8. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TDRs measure only attached loads (physical wires connection)

      however, TDRs don't measure circuits connected through capacitors and coils, so no.

    9. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      >TDRs measure only attached loads (physical wires connection)

      >however, TDRs don't measure circuits connected through capacitors and coils, so no.

      Any change in impedance will cause a reflection. The question is whether it's going to be measurably large.

    10. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by gordguide · · Score: 1

      " I'm in Canada (A former British colony and in the Commonwealth) and it's the same here, "

      What this poster meant to say is he's from Ontario, probably Toronto (aka "the centre of the known universe"), and everyone he knows calls it Hydro, as in the companies Ontario Hydro and Hydro-Quebec.

      The other half of the population in Canada (aka "savages") call it Power, just like it's commonly called in the US and the UK.

    11. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      Normally, you only hook 'em up when your line's broken and you've just busted your only 250MW feed to a large industrial region full of customers who pay 1 million bucks a month for reliable site power.

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    12. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Wait for a few lightning strikes at known points and check out the reflections and readings?

      That a big enough impulse for you? ;)

      --
    13. Re:It seems people have been sued for this by ACPosterChild · · Score: 1

      Probably has to do with the first (major?) power in Canada being produced by Niagra Falls.

  29. Other things that fit this definition of "theft" by benjamindees · · Score: 4, Funny

    Breathing: you're taking oxygen that clearly was produced on a farm somewhere or maybe in the Amazon.

    Tinfoil hats: these devices intercept electromagnetic waves and cause transmission losses.

    Heat pumps: you didn't really think you could take all that "free" heat out of the air, did you?

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  30. Re:Welcome to the future of America. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We don't see any of you idiots building power plants for yourselves.

  31. Re:Stealing or not? Mod Parent Down (Redundant) by sheapshearer · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Come one now, this has already been throughly answered. Why was he modded intereseting?

    Think about it this way: If you have your car running at 3000rpm in neutral, does it use the same amount of fuel as the same car pulling a boat up a hill running at 3000rpm?

    Of course not!

    When radio transmitters transmit, they do see a 'load' imposed by the air and surrounding objects. A misconfigured antenna can burn out a transmitter essentially because it loads the radio too much (well it creates SWR, etc).

    A transmitter without an antenna cannot impart its full power into the air, just as there is no 'wasted' energy by having an unconnected battery. You can think of antennas as ways to connect something to the air (bad analogy though).

    Well, powerlines are pretty simliar to a long wire antenna....

    The lights in the article do place an extra load on the powerlines. Well, the neat thing about electricity is that electric current, electric fields, and magnetic fields are all related (Mawell's Law, etc).

    You don't actually need wires to carry electricity (its just a heck of a lot easier in practice).

  32. Re:Electricity fun by RaymondRuptime · · Score: 3, Funny

    It'll be okay. Just reach around behind your ear and hit the degauss button.

  33. Sorry forgot the links. by MidiSaxMan · · Score: 2, Informative

    Oops,sorry forgot the links, check it out yourself.
    I also forgot to mention that animals can be sensitive to ground differentials as small as 0.5 to 1 volt depending upon conditions.

    This engineer testifies under oath citing research performed by Doug Reinmann at University of Wisconsin stating those same facts.

    Doctor Reinmann's research paper can be found here
    (pdf reader required for some links)
    http://www.uwex.edu/uwmril/stray_voltage/s vmain.ht m
    http://www.strayvoltage.org/stories/index.php3? Sto ry=20010221_utility.inc

    --

    Do Not Accept Defeat; Believe in your Dream. --me
  34. [Now OT] Re:Edible Electromagnetic Emission Art by ahoehn · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was grading papers for a college writing class the other day when I came across a paper that a student had written about measuring the speed of light using the microwaving chacolate method. At first I thought he was just making shit up, but then I looked it up on the interweb, and lo and behold, he hadn't made it up.

    Granted, he had copied his paper almost word for word from the interweb and I failed him for that, which just goes to show that it's dangerous to write papers that interest the graders.

    --
    Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
    1. Re:[Now OT] Re:Edible Electromagnetic Emission Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      was he using his napster machine to surf the interweb?

  35. Re:free power - DMCA violation by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 4, Funny
    The power company ought to claim that the power is encrypted, and that, by not using the authorized wired delivery system, the artist is stealing.

    I am not allowed to use all the electromagnetic waves that pass thru my property.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  36. Slightly off topic but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Would headphones (earphones) cause any "death in braincells" if worn constantly? Since they have magnets in them.. just wondered if any of it pertains ?

    /l

  37. Re:Power Lines have links to other Negative Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have some really bad news for you: the Sun has a giant-ass magnetic field, and the Earth intersects those field lines as it orbits around the Sun.... Guess what? There have been big ground currents in the Earth since a long time!

  38. Re:Power Lines have links to other Negative Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Inverse Square Law?"

  39. Interesting EHT effects at a power station by Tandoori+Haggis · · Score: 3, Interesting

    During a visit to a power station, we were shown the
    12 Mega Watt output cables. Asides from the crackling noise due to a light drizzle falling on the cables, there were other effects too.

    Having stood under the cables for a couple of minutes, I felt no adverse effect... until I started to walk away. That's when I started to get a headache...

    --
    My hyperlinks aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
    1. Re:Interesting EHT effects at a power station by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      probably it's all the ions in your body jiggling at 60Hz ;-)

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
  40. Technology can both save us and it can kill us by Tandoori+Haggis · · Score: 1

    It's true. Apply the dielectic materialism argument.

    Technology is all bad. (illogical exclusive negative )
    Technology is all good. (illogical exclusive positive)

    Solution: Technology is both good and bad.

    In fact, since technology is generally assumed to be created by man, the argument surely must be redirected towards man. For after all is said and done, it is HOW man uses technology that determines whether the outcome is good or bad.

    --
    My hyperlinks aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
  41. Flash Mob Overload by handy_vandal · · Score: 1

    Physical slashdotting? There's a new idea.

    Also known as Flash Mob Overload.

    -kgj

    --
    -kgj
  42. Futurama by gooman · · Score: 1

    Couldn't help but notice the photo with the floating brains. I didn't realize the Brain Spawn were here already (although that would explain some things going on in the world). I'm not sure we can wait 1000 years for Fry to wipe them out.

    --
    "Kittens give Morbo gas!"
  43. Your body is virtually made out of electrolytes.. by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 0
    And unnatural sources of EM have been around for only 100 years or so. . .

    To sum up the following; 60 htz x Earth's Magnetic field = Lithium ion (which exists naturally in human biology) becomes direcionally excited so that its impact upon brain chemistry is increased to achieve narcotic effect. (Lithium is the base of many anti-depressant drugs.)

    From "Cross Currents", Robert O. Becker, 1990

    "In 1982, Dr. A. H. Jafary-Asl and his colleagues at the University of Salford in England reported that yeast cells displayed both nuclear magnetic resonance and electron paramagnetic resonance, and that these resonances were different depending on whether the cells were alive or dead. They also found that when living yeast cells were exposed to conditions of nuclear magnetic resonances they multiplied at twice their normal rate-and the daughter cells were half as large as normal! Perhaps a more complex type of resonance was part of the answer, after all.

    The advantage of complex resonances such as nuclear magnetic resonance is that the energy in the field is concentrated upon single physical entities (such as the nuclei of Berlin atoms), rather than being spread among all the cells of the body.

    In 1985, Dr. Carl Blackman of the EPA and Dr. Abraham Liboff of Oakland University, working independently, integrated the reports of Jafary-Asl and the attempts to duplicate Bawin and Adey's experiments. They concluded that the strength of the local steady-state magnetic field of the Earth at the site of each of the laboratories was the hidden variable that determined the different frequencies reported.

    Both Blackman and Liboff suggested that the mechanism involved was a specific type of resonance, cyclotron resonance (which has nothing to do with the cyclotron, an early type of particle accelerator used in atomic physics). When they applied the mathematical equations for cyclotron resonance to the different frequencies reported by the different laboratories, along with the respective strengths of the local magnetic fields they found the same result. The Ca++ efflux was the result of cyclotron resonance between the frequency of the applied electric field and the strength of the Earth's local magnetic field at each separate laboratory.

    Cyclotron resonance can be explained as follows, albeit in a somewhat simplistic fashion: If a charged particle or ion is exposed to a steady magnetic field in space, it will begin to go into a circular, or orbital, motion at right angles to the applied magnetic field. The speed with which it orbits will be determined by the ratio between the charge and the mass of the particle and by the strength of the magnetic field.

    We know the frequency of rotation (the number of times per second that the particle completes a full rotation) from the equation relating the charge/mass ratio of the particle and the strength of the magnetic field If an electric field is added that oscillates at exactly this frequency at right angles to the magnetic field energy is transferred from the electric field to the charged particle.

    If the direction of the electric field is slightly off from the right angle, the particle will move in a spiral pathway.

    We can substitute an oscillating magnetic field for the electric field and still obtain cyclotron resonance. However, It must be applied parallel to the constant magnetic field.

    Cyclotron resonance may be produced any time there is a steady magnetic field combined with an oscillating electric or magnetic field acting on a charged particle. Many of the activities of
    living cells involve charged particles-such as the common ions of sodium (Na+), calcium (Ca++), and potassium (K+)-acting on or passing through the cell membrane. Cyclotron resonance has the ability to transfer energy to these ions and to cause them to move more rapidly. These effects will change the function of living cells by enabling the ions to pass through the cell membranes

  44. Can I do this myself? by AxemRed · · Score: 1

    Is there a website with information on how I can do this myself? Due the the legalities, I wouldn't exploit this, I just want to see it in action for a few minutes. I have high voltage power lines running through my backyard, so I have easy access.

    1. Re:Can I do this myself? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sure, get the tallest ladder you can find, preferably an aluminium one. Climb it, holding the tube as close to the wires as you can get.

      say, can anyone else smell burning flesh?

  45. The Smell by dnahelix · · Score: 2

    ...is most likely Ozone.

    --
    Slashdot Eds Link Anonymous Posts With Logged Posts
    They Are Vermin Feeding On Each Other's Feces.
    I Hate \.
  46. Re:Stealing energy-Sat TV by Brian+Puccio · · Score: 1

    I can say the same thing about DirecTV, I'll stop stealing their signals as soon as they stop beaming at my property.

  47. Re:Stealing energy-Sat TV by jrockway · · Score: 1

    To be honest, I don't see any way a sane person could disagree with you. You're sending me the signals, I'm performing some DSP on them and connecting them to my TV. Fuck you if our business model sucks. You have no "right" to profit by beaming high-powered waves through my house.

    --
    My other car is first.
  48. Re:Stealing energy-Sat TV by Brian+Puccio · · Score: 1

    I agree, but the question is will it stand up in court. If DirecTV doesn't want me to view their signals, they need to stop sending them to me.

  49. Re:Power Lines have links to other Negative Effect by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not just on farms, either. Did you hear about this ("Teachers College Student Dies in Freak Accident," Columbia Daily Spectator)?

    Apparently almost 300 objects carrying stray current--metal grates, service boxes, even lamp poles--have been identified around the city since this article was written. IIRC, there was even 120 volts found to be running through a lamppost one block from Times Square. This according to the NYT.

    Just another thing to consider as you walk to work tomorrow...

    yours

  50. Re:Stealing energy-Sat TV by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And if parents don't want you murdering their children and eating them for Halloween dinner, I suppose they need to stop sending their little ghosts and princesses up to your front door? Sorry, I don't buy it.

  51. Re:Stealing energy-Sat TV by Brian+Puccio · · Score: 1

    Yeah, but I'm not eating the DirecTV CEO. Apples and oragnes, and you know it.

  52. Re:Stealing energy-Sat TV by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 1

    That wasn't my point... Your argument seems to be "if it's on my property, I should be able to do what I want with it." I was trying to point out that that position, while attractive, is neither logical nor valid. Taking satellite TV without paying for it, or for that matter power from the electric utility, ultimately hurts everybody else; that's why we have laws making it illegal.

    From a theoretical standpoint, the costs of losing trust are very high. Some would say that's why we have laws at all.

    Regarding apples and oranges, I have to admit I hate analogies as much as anyone. :-) So I apologize for the (facile) analogy I was making in my earlier post.

    yours

  53. Re:Power Lines have links to other Negative Effect by pcmanjon · · Score: 1

    QUOTE: "I have some really bad news for you: the Sun has a giant-ass magnetic field, and the Earth intersects those field lines as it orbits around the Sun.... Guess what? There have been big ground currents in the Earth since a long time!"

    Yes, but they aren't high amperage, just high voltage (and we don't know any better because we're constantly grounded, so we can't notice it...)

  54. Re:Stealing energy-Sat TV by Brian+Puccio · · Score: 1

    I agree, that's why I said it will never hold up in court. I just wish there was a way to tell DirecTV and others to keep off my property. (I don't steal TV, I don't even have one to watch)

  55. Re:Stealing energy-Sat TV by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 1

    Well, you could always build one of these over your roof. :-)

  56. I'm an american by paughsw · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Why is slashdot all british central? I'm an american you insensitive clod. there are places outside britin.

  57. Re:Stealing energy-Sat TV by pedrop357 · · Score: 1

    Couldn't they then tell you to stop aiming your antenna at their satellite?

  58. Re:Stealing energy-Sat TV by Brian+Puccio · · Score: 1

    It's my antenna on my property, as such I can do with it what I please. Conversly, I should be able to tell them to get their satelitte out of my way, it's blocking my view.

  59. Re:Your body is virtually made out of electrolytes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TOO MANY WORDS. mod article excessivelyblabla.

  60. What? Too many words for you? by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
    TOO MANY WORDS. mod article excessivelyblabla.

    You pathetic moron. That was only two pages from a paperback.

    Were you one of those losers in school who looked at me when I cracked a book and said in awe, "You READ?"

    The fact that you cannot digest more than a sound-bite is evidence of how far gone you are. I am certainly not going to play along with the TV version of reality. Information and knowledge are valuable, and the above had it all; claim, easy to follow explanation as well as references. It's an important topic well worth exploring, and difficult to present for your worm-like benefit. If you found it had TOO MANY WORDS, then you deserve exactly what will happen to you.

    So I'm sorry I overwhelmed you, dipshit. I think I hear your Cell Phone ringing. Go stick it next to your brain and talk in idiot sound bites for a while. That should calm your nerves and make it all seem okay again.


    -FL

  61. Re:Your body is virtually made out of electrolytes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i rarely post, hence the AC.
    But - Rock on!
    Thanks for the info - i found it more interesting then the actual article itself :)

    remydyer AT s w i f t d s l (most common three letter tld) . au

  62. Ecstacy Doesnt Cause Damage.... LOL - deluded fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OMG dude, you believe this because you take E and dont wont to feel bad about it? Holy shit man, get real. You're going to be a fucking vegetable if you keep eating that crap spewed by chemists. Your whole post sounds like self induced brainwashing and I've no doubt that eating E helped you along your deluded path. The shit is garbage and that is what it will turn your body into. Of course in a few years you wont be able to remember crap, so you might want to print this out for safe keeping and future reference.

  63. Your Property??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL dude... there beaming at the governments property. You think you own that land? Wait until minerals or whatever are found on it. You dont own crap and certainly not the EMF waves being beamed at your locale.