Fatal Fire at Indian Space Center

Remember... by Stone+Rhino · 2004-02-23 06:40 · Score: 5, Informative

It could have been worse. Whenever you work with highly flammable materials, this is the risk that you take. It can be mitigated by proper safety procedures, but never fully eliminated. These workers paid the ultimate price for a lapse somewhere in the chain of safety.

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Remember, there were no nuclear weapons before women were allowed to vote.

Re:Remember... by beeplet · 2004-02-23 09:19 · Score: 4, Insightful

Thanks for the link. That's a fascinating read. The one thing that it calls to my mind, though, is not the inherent risks of flammable materials, but the way in which small problems, ignored by people in charge, can accumulate until the conditions for a disaster are reached... Not so much a lapse in the chain of safety, but a combined weakening of many links...

Lots of fires in our early Rocket program, too by justanyone · 2004-02-23 06:44 · Score: 5, Interesting

We had quite a lot of rather disastrous fires in our early rocket programs, too. Since many were military, I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't all revealed to the public as 'rocketry disasters' instead of being 'experimental failures' or 'military accidents'.

I believe I speak for all space enthusiasts (ok this is unrealistic) when I offer our condolences on the tragic loss of life in India. Progress has costs, and hopefully the cost of these lives will buy improvements in the knowledge about, and operational safety with, rocket technologies.

"We choose to go to the moon and do these other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard." John Kennedy knew that it's important to dedicate onself to a noble task and boldly pursue it. I hope India's space program advances on those noble goals we all set, the lifting of humanity from the face of this humble rock to the place where the real action is, Space.

-- Kevin J. Rice

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Unitarian Church: Freethinkers Congregate!

Re:Lots of fires in our early Rocket program, too by justanyone · 2004-02-23 11:14 · Score: 4, Interesting

A common early rocket fuel / oxidizer was Kerosene with Red Fuming Nitric Acid, which was obviously quite NASTY stuff. A technical link to this is here.

I've read that the people who fueled these rockets had to know (a) exactly what to wear because some rubber was eaten by the acid and other protective gear was not, and (b) exactly which way the wind was blowing at all times so they could run upwind if there was a spillage. The stuff apparently became gaseous very quickly and a being in a cloud of nitric acid can ruin your whole day.

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Unitarian Church: Freethinkers Congregate!
Re:Lots of fires in our early Rocket program, too by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-25 05:50 · Score: 0

I believe I speak for all space enthusiasts (ok this is unrealistic) when I offer our condolences on the tragic loss of life in India.

I think I speak for all programmers when I say, thank god six less people that can steal my job by working for peanuts which they in turn feed to their elephant god.
Re:Lots of fires in our early Rocket program, too by sjames · 2004-02-25 15:57 · Score: 1

It definatly has to be handled with care. Nitric acid strongly attacks rubber skin, and metals. The fumes and gasses from reaction burn the eyes and lungs (easily causing a fatal chemical pneumonia). It's the same reaction that causes dry rot and causes proteins to turn yellow.

All of that is managable enough in small quantities to the point that it is safe enough to use in high school chemistry, but that's no more than a litre or 2. I can well imagine that a 50 or 100 gallon spill is a much different matter.
Re:Lots of fires in our early Rocket program, too by anandcp · 2004-02-25 17:28 · Score: 0

U heartless idiot! Lives are lost. Would you say the same thing if american lives were lost? How come a UC citizen's life is more valuable than an indian's life? And to say we have more IQ than you!

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-------- Cluster bombing from B-52s is very, very accurate -- the bombs always hit the ground.

I think... by Otter · 2004-02-23 06:58 · Score: 3, Informative

...a fire has ripped through India's main space centre...

I think this is actually their primary launch facility, not the main center of the program. Presumably that's why it's on an island. Tragic, at any rate.

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What I'm listening to now on Pandora...

Re:I think... by beeplet · 2004-02-23 09:10 · Score: 1

Yes, according to the article: The Satish Dhawan Space Centre at Sriharikota is the main launch base of the Indian Space Research Organisation...Several craft carrying telecommunications and imaging satellites for a number of countries have been put into orbit from the site.

However, if an accident like this was going to happen (and it seems like many accidents of this type were often "waiting to happen") I think it is better for their space program to have it happen earlier rather than later... hopefully when they begin manned spaceflight it will be safer because of the people who died today.

ammonium perchlorate by Jru+Hym · 2004-02-23 07:02 · Score: 4, Informative

Lucky for them they didn't have a large store of ammonium perchlorate go up. Remember this explosion in NV in '88

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This lobster was alive when it hit the frothy, boiling water.

compare it to columbia by egomaniac · 2004-02-23 07:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

When the Space Shuttle Columbia broke up, seven astronauts were killed. Brave people who knew the risks they were taking and had at least considered that they might not make it back alive.

Six people died in this fire. We treated Columbia as a national tragedy, yet when six unknown Indians die, most people won't even notice. These were people who didn't expect to die, who hadn't told their loved ones those "Just in case I don't make it back..." last messages and prepared for the worst.

My heart goes out to their families. Please try to have some respect for the dead. They were just as much a part of the space program as the Columbia astronauts were.

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ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck

Re:compare it to columbia by Seraphim_72 · 2004-02-23 07:22 · Score: 1

...and you call yourself an egomaniac? ;)

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Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
Re:compare it to columbia by p4ul13 · 2004-02-23 07:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

Not sure how to reply without sounding like a complete insensitive jerk, but I'll try:
There is no question that this story is tragic, only a complete asshole would try to say otherwise. Tragic as it is, I think comparing it to the shuttle disaster isn't a good match in that while they're in related fields, they're in very different contexts.
The Columbia explosion was something that we here in America (and elsewhere) were greatly affected by emotionally. It hit a chord with many different people because it involved "heros" and people doing things that most people can only dream about doing right now. This story about the explosion in India wont get as much press, but it isn't because it is any less tragic or any less important. Instead it is because it isn't as highly visible an event as Columbia was.
Here's the point I wanted to make when I started this post, and I only hope folks don't take it the wrong way. People do of course die every day, and most every one of those deaths can be described as tragic to somebody. Every day a car crashes into another and 3-5 people die together. Is it tragic? Of course. Is it wrong that the rest of the world doesn't mourn the death of the people in those cars? No; because the car crash is not nearly as high-profile a story so not as many people hear about it.
The Columbia disaster involved people who are publicly admired. The explosion in India involved people in more blue-collar jobs and hence wont be mourned as widely as Columbia, but that doesn't make it any less important.

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Paul Lenhart writes words!
Re:compare it to columbia by tekiegreg · 2004-02-23 08:19 · Score: 3, Insightful

Well, at risk of sounding like a jerk as well, It only stands to reason that the further the degrees of separation from this incident, the less you'd really notice.

Rocket goes boom in India, I wouldn't be surprised to see most of India mourning. However while I mourn the loss of life, it just doesn't sink in as bad as say Colombia going boom.

On the flipside how many Indians truly stood up and took notice (or mourned even) when Colombia went boom? If I had to hazard a guess, not as many as today with their rocket. While I was probably more mournful of Colombia going boom than I am today.

However this is nothing to be ashamed about otherwise ones life would be very depressing overall :-/. Granted that lots of tregedy happens each day, and the more sensitive you are to varying degrees of separation the more mourning you would do overall.

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...in bed
Re:compare it to columbia by MasJ · 2004-02-23 08:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

Not to be harsh, mean or in a way breaking your bubble. But India mourned the Columbia as much, or more than you morons there. Get your facts right before opening your trap. Kalpana Chawla, the first Indian born woman in space was aboard the Columbia. She was as much a national hero to us as were your own astronauts and her loss was a great loss to our country. Sorry if I'm coming off really annoyed here, but it's offensive (atleast to me...) when people measure the value of life by the glamour/glory involved with an incident, and especially when they don't have a clear perspective on the incident because of misinformation... =/
Re:compare it to columbia by raju · 2004-02-23 08:46 · Score: 3, Informative

Kalpana Chawla, one of the astronauts in the ill-fated shuttle was of Indian descent. The Columbia accident was front-page news in India and many of the weekly magazines had cover articles on it. Ok, I admit, the Indian astronaut had a lot to do with it. In any case, India did mourn.
Re:compare it to columbia by DAldredge · 2004-02-23 09:05 · Score: 1

Did you morn when that train in Iran exploded?
Re:compare it to columbia by NanoGator · 2004-02-23 10:48 · Score: 1

"We treated Columbia as a national tragedy, yet when six unknown Indians die, most people won't even notice. "

The Columbia was a national tragedy. Most of America watched the shuttle burn up on TV, and a good chunk of the South West was littered with debris from it. The explanation of what happened took a month to figure out, and in the process, our shuttle program was stalled.

I'm sorry to say this because I don't want to sound like I'm belittling the deathes of those that died in India, but what happened with the shuttle was a much bigger event. You're absolutely right. These people should be grieved for too. But don't you dare use the Columbia disaster to imply that people are uncaring. That may not have been your intention here, but it's a story I've heard a number of times here, so I hope you'll understand some of the frustration preceeding my post.

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"Derp de derp."
Re:compare it to columbia by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-23 11:09 · Score: 0

The Columbia explosion was something that we here in America (and elsewhere) were greatly affected by emotionally.

Be careful, as far as I know only Americans were affected emotionally. The rest of the world said "eek!" then went on with their business. It's just the nature of the American culture (as with many other cultures) to make it look like local events have a higher worldwide impact than in reality.

In short, the American disaster was mostly local to the States, just like the Brasilian disaster was local to Brasil and now this Indian disaster.
Re:compare it to columbia by shadowbearer · 2004-02-23 17:51 · Score: 1

That's what a lot of people don't understand.

Those who are involved in, contribute to, or care about, the space program, no matter what nationality...this is like a death in the family.

It doesn't matter where you come from, what religion you are, what political views you endorse, or any other of that social claptrap.

It's all the same goal. It's too bad there isn't such banding together on so many of the other issues that divide humanity from being a whole.

Yeah, I'm bitter tonite. Bite me.

SB

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It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
Re:compare it to columbia by nathanhart · 2004-02-24 04:00 · Score: 0

You fail to relize it appears that not all of the seven that died where american citizens

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GeekLeak.com - Silly name, serious geeks
Re:compare it to columbia by MHleads · 2004-02-24 05:04 · Score: 1

Rocket goes boom in India, I wouldn't be surprised to see most of India mourning.

Sad, but true, that you are dead wrong. It hasn't received even 1% of coverage, let alone mourning, what Kalpana Chawla and Columbia had received on its first anniversary.
Re:compare it to columbia by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-25 05:52 · Score: 0

Learn how to use some toilet paper rag head.
Re:compare it to columbia by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-25 05:54 · Score: 0

no, but my tax money sent them aid for when they had their earthquake. That pisses me off. Shit blows up all the time in Iran. Who cares.

The future by Tango42 · 2004-02-23 08:49 · Score: 4, Insightful

Firstly, my condolences to all involved. As everyone else has already said, but I'll repeat, this is a tragic event.

However, this hopefully won't be the end of the Indian space efforts. When the SS Columbia was lost it brought NASA's manned space travel to almost a standstill, let's hope the Indians can work out what went wrong, ensure it won't happen again and carry on doing great work. If it all stops, their lives will have been for nothing.

Not only does India need this to bring itself into a greater position in the internation scientific community, but the rest of the world needs it to encourage them to try as well.

May they RIP.

Space outsourcing by MasJ · 2004-02-23 08:54 · Score: 0

So, how about it ? :) And since I haven't said it yet, condolences to the bereaved families.. I hope the Indian Space Program gets beyond these obstacles.. seeing as I am Indian myself, I'm sure as well, this country is one with a lot of vision, just not enough funds for everything ... yet ...

My apologies by tekiegreg · 2004-02-23 08:58 · Score: 1

Well yes apparently I was mistaken in that an Indian astronaut was aboard and therefore India's degree of separation from the Colombia accident was not as far as I thought. My humble apologies to those who are offended, I just tried to come up with a theory without any basis of India's involvement in the Space Shuttle Colombia without researching India's involvement in the Shuttle crash and deserve to be rightfully flamed as a result.

However at the same time, this does little to disprove my theory about degrees of separation and mourning. Pick another country that didn't have any astronauts aboard, how much do you think they mourned? Go further down to a tiny village in that country, the news of the Space Shuttle Colombia breaking up may not have even reached them yet! Just food for thought.

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...in bed

Re:My apologies by WIAKywbfatw · 2004-02-25 18:06 · Score: 1

I don't hear you mourning the five million who've died needlessly in Congo's current civil war.

Even seen one report about it on CNN/FOX/ABC/NBC or in your paper? No? I didn't think so.

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"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg

Press release from ISRO by Valluvan · 2004-02-23 12:00 · Score: 3, Informative

is here.

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Science as a way of life.

Re:SMELLS LIKE CURRY! by narftrek · 2004-02-23 12:07 · Score: 0

I think that this may be THE FIRST overrated funny AC flamebait that is subject line only to hit /. EVER.

India may dominate space... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-23 20:27 · Score: 0, Insightful

If India and Indians have the courage to move on, to come back after a tradegy tomorrow to clean up the pads, bury the remains, and work overtime to make the next launch date, then India will surpass the United States in space.

We should face the unfortunate truth; the United States space program has no courage and no honor. When the Challenger failed, the program stopped for over a year. When the Columbia failed, the program stopped again. People play the blame game, make excuses, the President of the United States makes a speech about a mission to Mars to abandon the ISS and the Hubble Telescope.

The American space program, and to some extent the American people, are cowards.

Re:India may dominate space... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-25 05:56 · Score: 0

The American space program, and to some extent the American people, are cowards.

the AC raghead says Americans are cowards? LOL. If any man in India had a set of balls Pakistan would have been gone a long time ago.
Re:India may dominate space... by anandcp · 2004-02-25 17:34 · Score: 0

If US didn't support pakistan, it would have gone under a day later. So, stop supporting future Saddam Hussiens and wake up USA! Democracy and Replublic are for ALL. Not for US alone.

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-------- Cluster bombing from B-52s is very, very accurate -- the bombs always hit the ground.

Encouragement by leg_br · 2004-02-24 05:18 · Score: 2, Informative

Not only does India need this to bring itself into a greater position in the internation scientific community, but the rest of the world needs it to encourage them to try as well

Indeed. Unfortunately that's not what the media thinks about it.
So, indians, no matter what you hear about it: keep working on it.
There was a recent similar accident in 3rd world, also covered by slashdot

MC BC BKL MKL BK by tarunthegreat · 2004-02-24 17:51 · Score: 1

Why the heck is this article even getting any eyeballs? It seems like an excuse for slashdot to get non-Indians to flame India/Indians one more time, .... (i.e. if they can't handle their space program, should we be letting write our code, and other hair-brained comments...

Good start by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-24 17:58 · Score: 0

Good, know we need this to happen at some of the call centers in India

Re:Racist bashers by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-25 05:45 · Score: 0

Let's see if half of the responses here are racists whining about Indians STEALING their jobs by merely doing them better.

They don't do them better, they do them cheaper. At least troll correctly.

pointing out that people are having their jobs stolen isn't racism asslicker.

Re:Off topic? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-25 05:47 · Score: 0

eat shit apu. You will be marked off topic until you learn how to use toilet paper.

Oah, don't worry by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-26 06:13 · Score: 0

Calm down, calm down dot-head,
Of cause you have a lot to worry about

you find yourself being replaced by your own brothers indians back home.
nobody likes you here, plus with mentality of "why pay indian here $100,000 /year. when I can pay indian there $100 dollars." you aint gona be getting jobs much longer
you wona comeback home but situation there is not any better, since Pakistanis are stealing your jobs for 100cents/year
you space program blows up even before it got to space! and with corruption you have it most likely never will get there.
plus the fact that your nation during 5,000 years was in a stagnant state with no technological progress, shows that it's a nation of brain-dead religious fanatics

...but don't worry you can still buy rotten, two-months-old fruits in you nearest indian held supermarket.

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Fatal Fire at Indian Space Center

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