What to do When Technical Support Fails?

trifster asks: "At this year's Comdex I purchased a Buslink USB 2.0 Cardbus adapter for my laptop. It was a good price and a partial impulse purchase, however it was defective out of the box. Before Christmas 2003, I set it back via Buslink's RMA process. It will be 2 months tomorrow, and I have not received my replacement nor have the 3 phone calls or 4 emails been addressed. What can one consumer do when he is on the East Coast and his hardware is held hostage on the West Coast? What have your experiences been in resolving these support SNAFUs?"

Comments

Court?

[sporty]

Small claims court might be an answer. Seeing as it is across states, you may need to do more research.

Check with a lawyer.

Re:Court?

[heliocentric]

Sporty, good to see another good post of yours, but I hate to be the bearer of good news. I was talking to trif yesterday on IM and he said that apparently just after the story got accpeted here he got a call from the vendor about it being taken care of. Apparently the person on the phone mentioned, "You don't have to threaten us."

I'm not 100% sure if that is about the /. story, but this didn't make it to the front page so I'm assuming their servers will remain up.

Re:Court?

[trifster]

The full threat was to have my sister-in-law Senior VP of a PR firm have it posted on TechTV, C|Net and Slashdot. Shit she could have gotten it in the TechLife section of the Philadelphia Inquirer if I wanted. Sometimes you do have to threaten.

Well,

[sinergy]

You just stop wasting so much time over a $20 part. I don't see why people make such a big deal over cheap things.

Re:Well,

[cybermace5]

My thoughts exactly. I typically look at the money I'll gain from pushing the issue, and then figure that the maximum amount of time I'll spend on it is no more than how long it would take me to earn that much at $40 an hour. The other week I called in about a $10 shipping overcharge on some parts I ordered, but I spent no more than 15 minutes investigating the issue and getting it resolved.

Kind of like balancing your checkbook; how much time do you spend doing it, and how much money you recovered compared to the hours invested? I keep a very good idea of what I have in the bank to the nearest $10 or so, but I'm not going to waste time looking for a $1 bank mistake. I scan over my bank statements and if there's a $200 mistake, I'll see it.

There was a guy on the electronics newsgroups a while back who must have posted a dozen times complaining about an overcharge from Mouser that turned out to be about three dollars. He spent a lot of time on the phone, escalated through the managers, etc.

Re:Well,

[Enfors]

You just stop wasting so much time over a $20 part. I don't see why people make such a big deal over cheap things

I don't think that would be a good idea. If we let companies get away with stuff like this, they'll learn that its safe to screw customers over just as long as the item in question is cheap. I, for one, wouldn't want to end up in that situation. In fact, capitalism itself relies on the principles of self-moderation - if we want capitalism to work, we as consumers have to make it work.

Re:Well,

[zelphior]

That's all well and good if you have a good job earning $40 an hour. However, for those of us struggling through college, living on ramen noodles and walking or hitchhiking to class because we can't afford gas, then it's worth it to get that $20 back. I try to pinch every penny so that I can afford to feed my addiction to technology. Since I spend pretty much all the spending money I do get on technology related stuff (computer parts, games, etc.), if something doesn't work, then it's worth it to me to try to recover my money or get it replaced with something that does work.

Re:Well,

[HeghmoH]

The thing is, if everybody took the attitude that it's no big deal, and it's not worth the time to go after it, then companies would try to get away with it a lot more. Don't look at it as a way to get your money back, look at it as keeping the company honest. I agree that you need to keep perspective about the issue, but just because a $20 error will take more than $20 of your time to fix isn't necessarily a reason to let it go.

Re:Well,

[dasunt]

My thoughts exactly. I typically look at the money I'll gain from pushing the issue, and then figure that the maximum amount of time I'll spend on it is no more than how long it would take me to earn that much at $40 an hour. The other week I called in about a $10 shipping overcharge on some parts I ordered, but I spent no more than 15 minutes investigating the issue and getting it resolved.

Your analysis is flawed.

You ignore the possibility that by investigating these companies, you end up pressuring them to have a higher quality of business.

If that increases the quality of the product, then we've all gained more then the $40+ that was lost.

Re:Well,

[cybermace5]

No, my analysis is not flawed. I never said that I would just let it go, I said that there was a limit to the amount of time I would spend trying to get my money back.

If I have to spend too much time forcing a business to provide adequate quality service, I won't do business with them again. I tell them as much, and most of the time they fix the problem and I will do business with them again. Most businesses really aren't out there trying to provide bad service; it's usually human error and companies usually try to get the issue resolved in a minimum amount of time.

The pressure is applied to the business within the first minute of your complaint. They know that if they don't satisfactorily resolve your issue, you probably won't buy from them again, and you'll tell your friends not to either. Any time you spend after that first minute is just you trying to get your money back. Multiple calls and hours on the phone will not pressure a business to improve itself. If you have to spend that much time, the business has no intention of improving itself.

Don't stay on hold for 45 minutes to get a $5 rebate, with the idea that you're helping the business world into some enlightened age of customer service utopia. All you're doing is reinforcing the fact that they do not need to resolve complaints in a timely manner; customers will wait for them and take whatever abuse is required to get their five bucks.

Re:Well,

[cybermace5]

I don't earn $40 an hour, I'm trying to actually get some money back instead of losing it all in wasted time.

contact your attorney general

[iamcadaver]

And the one in the state the company is incorporated in. They keep the lists on complaints.

Better Business Bureau, I think, will recommend the same.

Re:contact your attorney general

[dcocos]

As some who how has filed a claim with the BBB I can tell you from the most part it is worthless (even the BBB tells you they can't do anything.) If it is a large enough amount go to court over it, if it isn't vote with your wallet and never spend money with them again.

Re:contact your attorney general

[qqtortqq]

I've gone through the BBB before wen ordering parts from another state, and they were very helpful. Although they have no way to enforce anything, if the company fails to respond to them or refuses to work with you, they get a bad mark on BBB's records. On both the complaints I've filed, i got calls the next day from higher-ups wanting to fix my problem and avoid the bad mark on thier record.

Now before I order from a new supplier, I check thier BBB record. The record from the company I never recieved my order from was horrible.

Well...

[sockit2me9000]

Posting on Slashdot seems to be a good start.

Go to the top

[rm007]

A strategy that has worked for me in the past is send a letter (or email) to the president or CEO. When things get cascaded down from offices like that, results tend to happen.

Re:Go to the top

[madcow_ucsb]

Interesting read. I agree though. I've had good luck a couple times "turboing" (never heard that phrase before)

Once when my mom was getting DSL and it sat for MONTHS with the request bouncing between several parts of the organization. Call up the executive offices and BAM dsl went live within a few days as I recall.

Then a while back I tried to get out of my Cingular contract. Constant "System Busy" errors when making calls (less than 50% would go thru). Support wouldn't budge on the termination fee (I argued that they were in breech as they weren't providing a serivce but still taking my money). Rep just said that it was just something I had to accept from a wireless service. Called the Cingular exec offices and explained my problem to the senior secretary type. Who interrupted me off halfway and she forwarded me to tier 1 support before I could say anything. Called SBC exec offices (the mega-entity that owns Cingular). Explained that 1) The Cingular rep essentially hung up on me, 2) the tier 1 rep said I should expect crappy service (I named names with both of them...) and 3) my problem. Got forwarded to a VP and got a credit on my next bill.

If you get to the right people, you'll typically get good results (they'd rather loose the $200 termination fee than have be tell my cell phone-buying friends how much cingular customer service sucks I guess...)

Re:Go to the top

[innocent_white_lamb]

Sometimes it can work from the other end too. Low-level managers want to be noticed by their higher-ups so they can get a promotion. If you can provide the low-level manager with a "project" that he can resolve and thereby demonstrate how clever he is, sometimes that's enough incentive for that low-level manager to act and resolve your problem.

Of course, you have to present the problem in the proper way to accomplish this.

Threats, credit card fruad, better business bureau

[n1ywb]

A) Threaten them. Demand to speak to managers. If they won't give you the numbers, or if you can't even talk to a real person, do your own digging to try and find some real nubmers. Check the yellow pages for instance, or maybe their WHOIS record.

B) See if your credit card company can offer any recourse. Most of them have a zero fraud liability I think. If you paid cash or check, SOL.

C) File a complaint with the better business bureau. This may sound lame, but it can actually be quite effective. I have friends who were getting screwed by some company and have come out far ahead after complaining to the BBB.

What the Better Business Bureau says

[seanmceligot]

I was going to tell you to file for mediation with the Better Business Bureau, but they already have a poor record with the BBB so it might not do any good.

We rate this company as having an unsatisfactory business performance record, based on a pattern of complaints that cause us concern.

Complainants allege they experience delays in receiving ordered products, or that items are delivered damaged or defective. Some customers complain they experience delays or fail to receive rebates offered as buyer incentives.

The company responds in some delivery complaints by providing refunds, issuing credits or shipping orders. Some rebate complaints are addressed by advising rebate checks would be issued, or that the customer failed to comply with conditions of the offer. A few complaints are closed as disputed, meaning the customer was not satisfied with the company's response. Many other complaints are unanswered.

The Better Business Bureau does not endorse, recommend or disapprove of any product, service or company.

You can report them to the FTC but that won't help your specific case.

What can one customer do?

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn.

Learn not to do "impulse purchases".

Slashdot could be actively collecting data

[evilad]

The poll mechanism already in place would be an excellent way to collect /. user experience with different hardware vendors, and perhaps other things like online vendors. I for one would be very interested to see non-sponsored surveys of satisfaction among a relatively technical audience.

It seems to me that having a database of this sort of information would go a long way towards
a) removing this sort of Ask Slashdot, which is pretty pointless beyond being a good way to rant, and
b) actively improving the sad state of affairs in the world of technical support and customer relations.

document everything

[j-turkey]

Whatever you decide to do, full documentation will frequently galvonize your argument. When you called, did you write down who you spoke with and when? Did you keep your emails to them? Have you sent them a registered letter?

At this point, I'd write their CEO a letter, showing all of this documentation (names, dates, etc). If I were trying to run a business, I'd be grateful to find out whose fault it is that my customer service sucks. If you don't hear back right away, follow up with a phone call to the CEO.

If a letter to their CEO fails, you have the BBB and small claims court to fall back upon as a last resort. Your documentation will be a great asset to you here as well.

Always use a credit card!

[nycllama]

At least you'll get your money back without much of a hassle.

skip the first tier customer support

[YaRness]

tell whatever drone answers the phone that you need to speak to his/her supervisor.

keep moving up the ranks until someone takes action.

your phone calls produce nothing because the people you are talking to have no authority to take any action.

Go Straight to the Top

[jazman_777]

Back in '96, when Ed Foster had Iomega at the top of his bad list, I had a tape drive go bad. Their whole repair process was screwed up, so I wrote a letter to the president of the company, documenting all the support calls and efforts made to ascertain the status. I asked, "Will I ever see my tape drive again?" A week later, I had it back, fixed. Go Straight to the Top.

Not fraud

[hey!]

Your best bet is to have your credit card company credit your account, which they probably will do, especially if you have documentation. Then just tell Buslink to keep its defective card.

Don't get hung up on trying to prove fraud because you're complicating things. Your case is simple: you paid for a working widget, you never received a working widget, and the widget in question is currently in possession of Buslink and they apparently have no intention of returning it to you. Your position should be very clear here: Buslink has your money. Period. They didn't defraud you (that implies intent), they just didn't perform.

Any other course of action will eat up way more of your time than a cheapo PC card is worth. You probably feel violated, but really at this point you've probably wasted more time and anguish on the company than they deserve. Get your money back if you can and write off the emotional cost in any case. Retribution will just waste more of your time.

Don't do it that way

[alienw]

Never RMA something to a shady company like that. Instead, go to Wal-mart, Staples, or Best Buy, find the same card, buy it, and return your broken one as defective. They'll automatically deduct the money from the manufacturer's account, so the manufacturer will be rightly screwed.

Re:Don't do it that way

[AragornSonOfArathorn]

That's not what the parent poster is suggesting... you don't just return the item to a store that carries it, you BUY it, then return your DEFECTIVE one. How can they tell you didn't buy it from their store? You'll have a valid receipt...

Re:Don't do it that way

[alienw]

I don't consider it morally wrong or fraud if you buy the exact same card from the exact same manufacturer. All you get is a working card -- which is what you were supposed to get in the first place. You don't make money on the transaction. The store doesn't lose money on the transaction. The manufacturer only loses the money it would have lost if it shipped a defective product to the store. I don't see anything wrong here.

Of course, it IS fraud if you put some other product in the box or return something that was out of warranty or abused. It's also wrong if you knew the item was broken before you bought it. But if you got screwed by a manufacturer, why not strike back?

This is why credit cards are a good thing

[mpechner]

When you did not get a response, you had 30 days from purchase for full protection and 60 days for partial protection to have the CC company challenge the charge.

They would have given you the refund and backcharge the reseller.

Use a credit card

[Imperator]

If you used a credit card, then when the purchase came in DOA you could have called them up and asked them to dispute payment on the product. That way the reseller has every incentive to work with you, either to give you your money back or to give you a product that works.

Links to the BBB:

[Futurepower(R)]

Sounds like a GREAT idea, but you didn't provide a link. Googling found BBB Informal Dispute Settlement (IDS) and BBB OnLine Complaint System .

I know very little about this; please post other information about interacting with the BBB if you have it.

KDS is doing the same to me!

[pix3lphr3ak]

I had a KDS monitor that died after 8 months of use. Contacted Support had it RMA'd, said theyd ship me the same model with but in black/silver casing. I did the give us your credit card information and we'll send it immediately process. I got the new monitor in and it was 2 models below what i had. So i call technical support again, and they are soooooooo sorry. They tell me that they will call me at within 10 days to tell me another monitor just like mine or better has been shipped. They also asked if I had shipped my original monitor yet. I replied no and they said not only would they pay for shipping of the replacement monitor but the original dead one as well. 10 Days passed. 15 Days Passed. I've called a few time and now im told 'we're workin on finding a replacement'. Fast forward 2 weeks, KDS calls me threatening to bill me for $250 for a monitor that i had rma'd. The rep was rude and finally gave in to looking up the other RMA which noted what had happened. It's now been another 3 weeks and I still haven't heard anything. Speaking of which I'm making a phone call after this :\

Turboing

[AndrewM1]

You might want to check out The Art Of Turboing. It explains what to do when you can't get a good answer From Tech Support Pretty well. Also, for an example of really bad Tech Support, see CompUSA: How not to handle a turboing customer

Advice that is too late

[angle_slam]

You should have bought from a retailer like Best Buy. If it was defective, you can exchange it for a new product or get a refund. No need to deal with the manufacturer, because Best Buy does it for you.

At this year's Comdex I purchased...

[Dr. Evil]

Answer:

Don't speak to anyone at Comdex, and for the love of humanity do not swipe your card at any vendor's booths much less buy anything.

For that matter, don't go to Comdex!