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Ford Testing a New 'Traffic Monitoring' Device
Poletown writes "The Detroit Free Press put out this article today about a new vehicle based 'traffic monitoring' system that Ford is testing. It will report your speed, the road temperature, whether or not your wipers/headlights are active, and even if you've used your anti-lock brakes. Initially, the system will be tested on Ford-owned and municipal vehicles."
Good idea but it won't work, here's why. This essentialy puts in real time monitoring information from your car's computer to a relay device that collates and condenses the information. In thoery this could allow more localized reporting conditions such as areas where a certain valley with a river can have weather different than the sorrounding community and so on. The article doesn't note if this is GPS enabled or not, but it would inevitably happen sooner or later.
But it wont work because if a device can tell if your antilock brakes are working it can just as easily tell if your speeding or any other number of big brother activities. This information could be relayed to your local municipality and insurance company. Imagine discovering that you've gotten a speeding ticket and your insurance rates went up before you even finished driving home.
This would be a very effective privacy erosion and people will rebel with the inevitable horror stories that would follow. Your boss could find out if you go drinking on the weekend, and so on. Imagine anyone being able to use this "public" information to stalk or harass someone. Since the information would reported to municipalities, it would by definition be public unless legislated otherwise.
Now, you could make it work, and it could produce very nice real time results. If several thousand cars all suddenly come to a crawl where traffic conditions wouldn't otherwise call for it an automated dispatch to 911 could be sent to find out why - there's probably a good reason for it. The problem is that you have to find a way of reporting the information in aggragate and without the ability to uniquely identify where it's coming from. If it can be uniquely identified it will be subponead by some lawyer and abused.
While I'm sure most will comlain about the lack of privacy, or the slippery slope of collecting such data and the danger of it eventualyl being used to issue tickets, I find it's an interesting approach.
It would potentially give better a better idea about traffic congenstion and weather conditions. It beats trying to set up a bunch of "stations" near highways to monitor traffic and weather in different places.
In the end, though, I don't see it flying. Too many people will be against it and the benefits will probably not justify the costs.
The "intelligent roadway" concept sounds all gee-whiz and cool, but the fact still remains that it's we, the drivers, who are responsible for both the volume and the density of traffic. Our being on the roads in the first place generates the volume, and our need to get "there" first generates the density.
Someone posted a link to this site about how one driver can singlehandedly eliminate traffic waves simply by not driving like a nut. I've tried it, and it's not difficult, but I can't imagine convincing my wife to let a gap open up in front of her... there's something in human nature that rebels at the thought of someone else getting ahead of you in line.
My prediction: If these devices and systems lead to more efficient roads, then there will simply be more people on the roads. The end result will be *worse* congestion than before. That's why building new expressways is so futile -- you just can't build your way out of gridlock. [Insert mass transit rant here]
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
This is going to be installed in municipal vehicles and police cars, not your vehicle. Relax everyone.
Good luck figuring out traffic patterns by putting this in police cars. The police by me are either sitting by the side of the road looking for speeders and HOV lane violators, or they're cutting through traffic in the disabled vehicle lane.
This sounds like a good idea, but i see it being used in all the wrong ways. Cops would no longer have to catch someone speeding, they would just have to link the illegal speed with the vehical and send the ticket in the mail. Any government could track were certain citizens are (or rather their cars) at any time. I wonder how long it would take someone to put linux on one of these systems. It would be a pretty tight mobile computer.
Might as well put that chip inside my brain so it can sense my stress/roadrage levels and turn my car off if I get too violent.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
You could write cool python scripts to visualize your commute to work, etc.
Or someone else's.
Divorce lawyers/investigators would love this shit. No thank you.
KFG
Yes, your issues are true for personal vehicles. However, in the case of fleet vehicles, where the person doesn't get a choice if it's on or not, I could see it being quite helpful.
In fact, I know a few people whose work vehicles will report to their employer when they showed up at the work site (construction related field). This is just an extension to that.
You're automatically assuming that 'consumer' means 'private citizen' which it may not be. I can see significant demand for this for fleet vehicles, especially if it can be correlated to GPS or some of the other monitor systems that already exist.
Public works vehicles would be a prime candidate for this, as it could give indicators where potholes are, or snow problems, or flooded roads. Radio and TV stations might put it in their vehicles, so they could improve their traffic reporting.
It might move to private vehicles, if there were incentives. Maybe discounts on your insurance, or taxes, or the like, but I don't see people just jumping out and wanting it on their own, for the very reasons you stated.
And it's entirely possible that they'll be put in without people knowing about it, such as the black boxes that record airbag data, or forced to be in there by law [all vehicles in the state of must have them], similar to emissions controls, which help the general population, but not the individual user.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Unfortunately, people won't rebel because they won't take it upon themselves to build cars without said devices, and that's even assuming that the Law allows cars to be manufactured without all that stuff anyway. What will happen is that people will just say, "That sucks! Oh, well, I want a car...."
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
e911, RFID, and now this...
The future looks bright for companies who'll be selling jammers.
<grrr>
That which causes outrage today is commonplace tomorrow...
Technology is like fire... if you don't keep a careful eye on it and keep it under control, what was your servant becomes your master...
That's all I'm saying... make sure such useful technology doesn't become abused... It's a duty to those who wish to remain free.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
It's a bunch of BS to get people to let this big brother in the car.. then ZAM it'll start to be abused.. Just like OnStar was. OnStar gor saved via a tecnical detail, but if they had multiple audio out channels, it's still be abused today.
The fact is, it's US thats the problem. We employ a greedy and not cooperative strategy on the roads. They did research around here, and they found that all the highways were completely cpable of handling the volume of traffic at rush hour. It's out driving that creates backups.
And don't get me started about RUBBERNECKERS! ARH.
People here are some tips:
1) Don't rummberneck, mangled metal is fun, but it's none of your business.
2) Don't tail gate, leave good room. Tailgating makes you slam on your brakes, so the guy behind you needs to slam arder, and so on, until people are locking up anc causing more accidents.
3) When in a backup let the gap be made. Don't floor it to the next guys bumper then brake hard 1) it wastes gas 2) you repeat #2. I've seen "averagers" - peopel who average the flow out create a huge difference. And I think we all rather me slow and steady rather than stop-and -go. If you are a stop and go person: remember: 1) all that gas used to get up to speed gets wasted when you put on your brakes, 2) you waste more brakes killing the effect of overusing gas 3) you create more changes in speed which is more changes for a rear-end collision by another unattentive driver. We handle things if they are steady.
4) Get over early. You having to slow down your lane so you can get over in a hurry, slows down your lane and causes others to change lanes.
5) minimize lane changes. Each one is a time when you a leagally vulderable. When you change lanes, right of way is with the person who is already there. And we all know about 2 people, one moveing left, the other right, that don't see each other.
That shoudl take care of 90% of the problems on the road.
Thank you.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Correction: Trust can be earned, or given freely.
There is no point for every driver on the highway to have this system in their car. Afterall, the car next to you is not likely to report anything different than what you're reporting at any given time.
However, think of this usage. A local radio and TV station operation offers to pay to have this system installed in 2000 volunteer's cars, and those people are paid $250 or so a year to participate. Suddenly, this station will have a a very informative realtime traffic system, because as odds are one of their spotters will be delayed by any rainstorm or lane closure. What's more, the spotters don't have to do anything active to report that they've been stopped or slowed, since the system phones in their reports for them.
There's no need for everybody's privacy to be violated, because this doesn't need a census, just a sample. If a few people are willing to give up some privacy, the whole public can benefit from the data collected in the form of better traffic advisories.
Yes, they should have be fired exactly like that.
The work crews were expecting their actions to be untraceable and they were caught. As a taxpayer I hope all city vehicles are setup with this info. As long as their employment agreement states that the city/state has the right to monitor their vehicles then whats the issue...
One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
I really don't see how this will have any impact on traffic. You may know everything about the status of the vehicles but how is that going to lessen the load of traffic? Seems to me it would be just as effective to install sensors along the roadway that monitor traffic flow and suggest re-routes as needed. Really this is just another way for big brother to watch us.
Oh, BTW, for all you Ford haters out there, my '82 Ford Bronco is still running after 215 thousand miles. Never had any major work other than replacing the oil pump. Environmentalists procede with the flaming on my gas guzzling beast, but I do live in New Mexico and take my car off road all the time, I don't own an SUV just because they're cool or big.
-- Is it a right to remain ignorant? -- Calvin
What was to strop them from doing it with paper tickets anyway? Everytime I take the PA Turnpike, I'm always wary of the toll guy calling the cops and saying "It only took him 45 minutes to get from the Poconos to Philly".. Times are stamped on those, too.
Traffic information is realtively useless on the backed up roadway. You're already there, can't really change your route, and knowing that there's a blockade ahead of you is something you likely could have already figured out yourself.
It's a case of good information gone stale... it's too late to save you at this point. Traffic infomation needs to be distributed well before people get to the scene of the problem, so that they have a chance to select that "alternate route" that sends them on a longer path with less congestion. Once they have passed that point, it's too late.
Therefore, traffic infomation needs to be distributed very rapidly and distantly from the scene of the problem in order to have any influence on the situation.
Ummm...cop cars are not really the best way to determine traffic conditions, since in the course of a day they are constantly avoiding traffic laws, such as speed, and being able to drive around and thru traffic. Hard breaking in chases, and high speeds travling to the scene of a crime/accident would seriously skew the data.
If you must!
as long as my car only monitors everyone elses car anonymously and visa versa.
And how is this different from actually seeing them at the bar? They were not doing their jobs. The device didn't make them do it. Stop blaming the device.
What you are saying is that it's okay to cheat and lie, just as long as you don't get caught, and if you do get caught it's not fair.
So, all the trafiic avoids the congested roads to go to the hidden and little used 15 lane super highways, right?
When I had a long-drive job, there were nights I could leave the office at 5:30 and get home at 6:30, and other nights leaving at 5:30 would lead to me getting home at 8:00...
If I could have checked from the office and known that I would have gotten in a traffic mess, I just might have decided it'd be a good chance to clean out my low-priority e-mail for an hour. I'd be one less car in the jam, and then be able to sail through that spot after the jam has cleared.
So yes, getting traffic data well distributed will cause some of the cars that would have been in the backup to disappear even if their is no other route, they'll just delay their trip.
I know how I was as a new driver - and the crap I pulled as a teenager.
And how, pray tell, did you learn to stop doing crap like that? Did you, perhaps, get into a dangerously close call and say "shit, I have to stop doing that". Perhaps you even screwed up big time and needed your parents to come bail you out. We call those 'learning experiences'. If you deprive your kids of those experiences, you're stunting their growth in a horrible horrible way -- when they get thrown into the real world headfirst, they're going to end up turning to drugs, depression, or suicide.
You can't keep your kids in a padded room all their life, and if you did that wouldn't really be much of a life would it? Even in small degrees, the same concept applies. By coddling them, you are depriving them of an important part of their life.
I've also seen teenagers out of control, and with no way to reign them in you can only hope every night that they don't end up dead.
If you have reached that stage, then you have failed, and are continuing to fail, as a parent. Congratulations.
I'm willing to respect the privacy of my kids and the experiences you gain as a teenager. But if I ask my son when he got home last night, and he tells me midnight - I can look to see if he's telling the truth.
Tell me, what's a better approach to getting your kid to return home at a reasonable time:
Kid comes home before midnight because he's afraid of the interrogation you'll give him.
or:
Kid comes home before midnight because you'll be staying up worried about him and you need to work in the morning.
Looks like you're leaning more towards the first method of controlling your kids. That is not healthy, and will only escalate in the future. If you really want your kids to end up hating you, you're on the right track.
Trust is earned - not given freely.
If your child has not earned your trust by the time they are old enough to drive, either you've fucked up, or you ARE fucked up.
They call it a "traffic monitor". But traffic is a higher-level function: traffic is an aggregate of vehicle data.
... invasive implications ....
Really, these things should be called "vehicle monitors". But that phrase conjures up such
-kgj
-kgj
Perhaps in a few years there can be a democratic road system that more or less lives off of information provided by cars (anonymously of course). It continuously checks the flow, adjusts lights to match, even offering on-road re-routes ahead of time to avoid large delays. Radio and digital displays are nice, but they aren't quick enough to really help 90% of the rush hour drivers.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
When I have kids, I'll expect updates on all their cars' data at regular intervals.
So will the stalkers, rapists, sexual predators, and serial killers.
Is this what you REALLY want for, say, your teenage girl?
How about for your teenage boy - the one with the really cute butt?
How about for your cousin, who just bailed out of the abusive marriage and is trying to duck the ex-husband? You know - the one who broke her nose, blackened her eyes about once a week, and wants to continue the practice?
How about the crook who knows your car is worth fifty grand and you just spent ten minutes in a bank parking lot?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Thank jebus we don't have traffic cameras around here and my state has outlawed photo-radar (you have the right to face your acuser, damn machine can't be questioned in court). The only traffic control around here is a cop with a radar or lidar gun and they are predictable enough that intelligent people who drive sensibly won't get caught =)
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
However, if they try to put this in my car...it will be disconnected quickly.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
...that these devices will be uniquely identifiable? All they need for this to work is aggregate data, so they just have to call home and say "hey, my host car just engaged the ABS going 45mph, the road temp is 31 F, etc. I'm at x,y,z." No need to send a serial number.
If it didn't identify itself, reporting such things as speed would be a huge help, since the police could use the data to target enforcement where it's needed. (of course, in Dallas, that's pretty much everywhere, since if you're not going at least 10 over, even the police are passing you)
I think I'll start driving an antique car with a non-computerized breaker point ignition. No on-star, no cell phone.
Please dont label me as a flame-bait paranoid, but I'm a little tired of the whole world being so damn interested in where I am and what I am doing.
All this RFID crap, cell phone tracking, now your car is supposed to tell everyone what it's up to? Geez, aint it time for a little reality check.
Just because technically you _can_ do something, doesnt necessarily make it a good idea.
Worry when they outlaw the countermeasures.
You mean like in several states where they already outlaw radar detectors?
This is an ex-parrot!
"Yes, Mr. Thomas, the data pulled from your 2005 Ford Mustang GT indicates that you were going 134 mph when you wrecked last night at 3:27am. Local weather reports show that it was raining, yet your wipers, as well as headlights were out. Our assumption is you were drunk. Claim denied."
The powers-to-be will not be sifting through all this data. They will, however, go with a fine-toothed comb through the data of the "person of interest" of the hour. Be sure, they will find everything that they need.